Discussion The true enemy?

kkck

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So... recently we saw learned the nature of the enemy that were the holy knights. For me most part it looked like hendrickson was the enemy who aimed for the revival of the demon clan however as the plot developed we learned than in reality the one behind everything was fraudin, a demon that possessed dreyfus and managed to influence hendrickson into doing everything. With that we learned that the one behind the assassination of zarathras was in reality fraudrin who probably did that in order to get the sins out of liones to carry out his plan. And the plan, with hitches and all, was mostly successful. The 10 commandments were released upon the world to carry out whatever it is their objective was 3000 years ago.

Anyways, with that in mind the situation is that the demons by no means explain what happened 16 years ago at danafor. Meliodas, with some ambiguity, that he failed to protect the kingdom and the people. Liz died. However, assuming we trust what fraudrin told his peers, it is impossible he had anything to do with it. From the other demons we know fraudrin somehow avoided being sealed but fraudrin retorts that he had a bunch of stuff happen to him and he was only freed 10 years ago.

If fraudrin was only active from 10 years ago then by no means was he present when whatever happened to danafor happened. If only fraudrin and a few other demons escapes it seems kinda unlikely that it had something to do with demons...

And then there are the vampures of edinburg who escaped 12 years ago. There are two possibilities regarding that, either they escaped the seal on their own or they were released. Zeldris was the one who sealed them, for the sake of that vampire girl so we can't rule out him putting a timer on the thing either. Anyways, it makes the most sense they were released by someone IMO. And the question would be, by whom? For what purpose?

And regarding danafor it is not a simple matter of who did it but also why.... Was there something at danafor which the enemy wanted? Was it arbitrary destruction? Or perhaps they were going specifically after meliodas?

Anyways, the theme the manga has so far is about duality. We have meliodas, the nicest plausible guy, who is also a demon that for some reason, presumably without intending to, destroyed danafor. The seven deadly sins who as far as we have seen are actually innocent of the sins they are blamed for. They sins basically mean something different to them. Meliodas is blamed for the destruction of danafor, yet his sins is being unable to protect the people. Ban is blamed for the destruction of the fairy forest and its saint, yet his sin is also being unable to protect them. And in turn we have those who carry the same of the commandments. The ultimate evil carries the name of morality. So the situation is that things are not what they appear.

Now, the vampires of edinburg bit also introduced us to the concept of the demons having allies, powerful ones at that. The vampires were vassals to the demons. So the scenario is perhaps along the lines of there being two sides in the war. On one hand the force of light made out of the goddess clan, fairy clan, giant clan and human clan and on the other the forces of darkness which up to this point makes up the demons and vampires and presumably other clans.

An interesting bit about the war 3000 years ago is that basically all sides were exterminated to a degree. The goddess clan lost their power to the point where even after 3000 years they can't take physical form (assuming we trust whatever it is that spoke to ban). And they were enemies of meliodas. The demons were sealed in their entirety, even beyond the 10 commandments. The vampires out of their treason were sealed by zeldris. The giant and fairy clans were diminished. Whatever it is that also fought alongside the demons was either destroyed or diminished too. Only the humans were able to flourish and take control of most of the land.

Now... I got to wonder, was this intentional? As far as we know meliodas was the one behind the sealing of the demon clan. But perhaps he also meant for the goddess clan to be rendered powerless so that the other clans could flourish?

Now, considering everything it makes sense it would be the goddess clan who is the enemy we are missing. The ones that went for meliodas 16 years ago and in the process got danafor destroyed. It makes sense with the theme of the manga regarding the sins being the good guys, the commandments being the bad guys and so on (although only when viewed as the commandments, as demons it makes sense they are evil).

And if the goddess clan is the enemy we are still missing then it calls into question the nature of the war 3000 years ago. Why were they fighting? Are the demons truly evil? Meliodas is not evil which should suggest the demons are not inherently evil. Gallan seems pretty twisted but yet yet he is just one person. We could argue any side has its nutjobs. Perhaps the demons have their own values and objectives which at the time of the war 3000 years ago were simply not compatible with those of the goddess clan. meliodas evidently betrayed the demons but perhaps he simply looked at the war and said no more... And set out for the path that saved the most lives. Which at the time would have been sealing the demons perhaps using the power of the goddess clan by which meliodas took out two birds with one stone.

On another note, holy crap, is meliodas the doctor (as in doctor who)?
 

gnut

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to me....galan's recent remark to mel,about his appearance not changing is a big clue.
mel can't be a pure demon...perhaps a mix of demon and goddess...hence why liz and beth are/were so drawn to him.

so the war may have been nothing more than a romeo/Juliette situation...forbidden love between the two clans.
lead to the birth of mel and eventual war between demons/goddesses....maybe just maybe the union of the clans came to be thru this union only to be sabotage by someone,possibly from the goddess clan.also,this may have something to do with the vampire's treason towards the demons.

:cookiehand
 

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Yeah, but what exactly is Mel's relationship with Eli/Liz then?

If the goddesses are evil and she is their apostle (a special goddess snowflake)... What does it mean for their relationship?

The questions pile up >.>
 

kkck

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Yeah, but what exactly is Mel's relationship with Eli/Liz then?

If the goddesses are evil and she is their apostle (a special goddess snowflake)... What does it mean for their relationship?

The questions pile up >.>
Why would it mean anything? As far as we know neither is particularly evil. Maybe they are not supposed to be together but I don't think there is anything beyond that. I am more curious about estarossa and elizabeth. What up with that dream? I am thinking there is a love triangle situation. Maybe elizabeth was supposed to be with estarossa but then she fell for mel... And then meliodas sealed the clan? Nah, its too weird, I can't imagine the manga turning into a soap opera like that...
 

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I'm not entirely sure who the real enemy might be, but I think the goddess clan probably started the war 3,000 years ago. Something about them doesn't just feel right.
 

kkck

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to me....galan's recent remark to mel,about his appearance not changing is a big clue.
mel can't be a pure demon...perhaps a mix of demon and goddess...hence why liz and beth are/were so drawn to him.

so the war may have been nothing more than a romeo/Juliette situation...forbidden love between the two clans.
lead to the birth of mel and eventual war between demons/goddesses....maybe just maybe the union of the clans came to be thru this union only to be sabotage by someone,possibly from the goddess clan.also,this may have something to do with the vampire's treason towards the demons.

:cookiehand
I think it'd be weird at this point if meliodas had goddess clan powers... I mean, he has never shown that at all. And he should theoretically be able to heal himself and others with such a thing. I can understand him not wanting to give himself away as a demon but if he was part goddess and he didn't use that to heal himself and others it makes him kind of a jackass. Considering the vampire war thing I get the impression meliodas is indeed a pure demon. Its not impossible the goddess clan has something to do with his extremely long lifespan though. They can revive people apparently, maybe they can extend life.
 

gnut

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it's the only thing to me that explains why mel isn't dead after 3000yrs...why is his life prolonged but the demons believe they should have been dead without being sealed?

maybe,not as romeo/Juliette as I make it...but mel is definitely not a full demon.
also,there is a reason why both liz and beth look alike and are drawn towards mel....

---------- Post added at 11:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 AM ----------

I think it'd be weird at this point if meliodas had goddess clan powers... I mean, he has never shown that at all. And he should theoretically be able to heal himself and others with such a thing. I can understand him not wanting to give himself away as a demon but if he was part goddess and he didn't use that to heal himself and others it makes him kind of a jackass. Considering the vampire war thing I get the impression meliodas is indeed a pure demon. Its not impossible the goddess clan has something to do with his extremely long lifespan though. They can revive people apparently, maybe they can extend life.
it's kinda the same reason he can't willingly go demon mode i'd imagine...he's not full demon.
so in hind sight,his goddess side may just be that...a prolonged life - the healing ability.
 

kkck

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it's kinda the same reason he can't willingly go demon mode i'd imagine...he's not full demon.
so in hind sight,his goddess side may just be that...a prolonged life - the healing ability.
He has gone demon mode willingly, a number of times at that. He did it to easily overpower ban after ban absorbed his strength and he used it to reattach his arm after ban cut it off. And he used it a number of unseen times in the past considering the other sins were familiar with his "triumph card" back at byzel. The manga has not yet addressed whether he has limitations in his demon form so far.
 

gnut

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He has gone demon mode willingly, a number of times at that. He did it to easily overpower ban after ban absorbed his strength and he used it to reattach his arm after ban cut it off. And he used it a number of unseen times in the past considering the other sins were familiar with his "triumph card" back at byzel. The manga has not yet addressed whether he has limitations in his demon form so far.
but to me...it seems like everytime he does go demon.it's after he's taken extensive damage,like it triggers on it's own.

---------- Post added at 12:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 PM ----------

not trying to be diificult kkck...but galan's comment has been bothering me.

he wasn't surprised(none of the demons were)that mel was alive...but,the fact galan was surprised mel's appearance hadn't changed.
i'm trying to figure that one out....:hmm
 

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My bet is: Fraudrin is the real enemy (or someone using him).
Maybe he isn't even a demon but from the godess clan, you know the typical "did something wrong and got exiled/ had a fight with his won clan/ect" and just uses the demons for his goals
 

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So... recently we saw learned the nature of the enemy that were the holy knights. For me most part it looked like hendrickson was the enemy who aimed for the revival of the demon clan however as the plot developed we learned than in reality the one behind everything was fraudin, a demon that possessed dreyfus and managed to influence hendrickson into doing everything. With that we learned that the one behind the assassination of zarathras was in reality fraudrin who probably did that in order to get the sins out of liones to carry out his plan. And the plan, with hitches and all, was mostly successful. The 10 commandments were released upon the world to carry out whatever it is their objective was 3000 years ago.
You know the anime just recently reminded me that Hendricksen was already experimenting with demons before Dreyfus and him assassinated Zaratras. Hendricksen tells Ban that "everything started when they found the Red Demon in the Fairy King's forest 20 YEARS AGO." If Fraudrin wasn't lying, he's only been awake for a little bit over 10 years so he couldn't have forced or influenced Hendy back then either. So its highly plausible you are right in that there is another Demon or the Goddesses that is influencing the others.

Sidenote, I wonder who exactly it was that sent Hendricksen, a druid who basically are servant to the Goddess clan, to Liones where he just so happened to run into Meliodas there. I wonder if the Goddess clan are using the Druids to finish off Meliodas and they basically went outta control with Liz and the destruction of Danafor. And every time they fail, the chosen apostle(Elizabeth) just keeps being reincarnated for thousands of years until the job is done. But this time they used Hendricksen to create cracks in the demon seal(like the first time Hendy and Helbram first tried to release the seal without Elizabeth blood) to help take out Mel and by doing so Fraudrin somehow slipped through?
 

kkck

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You know the anime just recently reminded me that Hendricksen was already experimenting with demons before Dreyfus and him assassinated Zaratras. Hendricksen tells Ban that "everything started when they found the Red Demon in the Fairy King's forest 20 YEARS AGO." If Fraudrin wasn't lying, he's only been awake for a little bit over 10 years so he couldn't have forced or influenced Hendy back then either. So its highly plausible you are right in that there is another Demon or the Goddesses that is influencing the others.

Sidenote, I wonder who exactly it was that sent Hendricksen, a druid who basically are servant to the Goddess clan, to Liones where he just so happened to run into Meliodas there. I wonder if the Goddess clan are using the Druids to finish off Meliodas and they basically went outta control with Liz and the destruction of Danafor. And every time they fail, the chosen apostle(Elizabeth) just keeps being reincarnated for thousands of years until the job is done. But this time they used Hendricksen to create cracks in the demon seal(like the first time Hendy and Helbram first tried to release the seal without Elizabeth blood) to help take out Mel and by doing so Fraudrin somehow slipped through?
Ahh, good point about hendrickson and the demon 20 years ago. Although to me that makes everything more confusing though. I mean, does that mean that hendrickson acquiring the demon which would trigger everything in the manga is merely a coincidence? It does suggest a greater plan into the whole thing but that working into fraudrin's plans seems like a pretty huge coincidence. I can't imagine someone manipulating fraudrin either...

Thinking about it fraudrin says the 7 deadly sins interfered with his plans... but how? 20 years ago the sins did not exist considering it was barely when ban got his own sin. 16 years ago danafor was destroyed. 12 years ago the vampire events took place. I am guessing that the sins were formed in those 4 years between the destruction of danafor and the attack of the vampires?But then, how did the sins ever interfere with fraudrin? In the 10 years he claims to have been awake the sins were not even active.

This whole thing is weird.
 

gnut

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16 yrs ago=red demon
12 yrs=vampires/grey demon
maybe,fraudrin was able to escape during that time...no one has taken credit for defeating the gray...
maybe fraudrin used it to escape the seal?....

but,you are right....someone got the wheels turning on this(releasing the demons)
 

kkck

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16 yrs ago=red demon
12 yrs=vampires/grey demon
maybe,fraudrin was able to escape during that time...no one has taken credit for defeating the gray...
maybe fraudrin used it to escape the seal?....

but,you are right....someone got the wheels turning on this(releasing the demons)
I think hendrickson said the grey demon was found 4 years ago or so.
 

gnut

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ahh....so maybe it was just the vampires being released was maybe fraudrin's cover.
probably hid within the vamps and made a move on dreyfus...overwise we've seen mel can pick up on demons.
even tho fraudrin may not be a commandment...he is recognized by them,so he must be powerful enough for mel to sense him outside a host body.
 

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Didn't I mention this theory before? I do think based on Fraudin's comments there have been some strange events that had been going on that lead to me to believe there is another perpetrator:
A) Red Demon that appeared and attacked the Fairy forest 20 years ago, meaning 8 years prior to Fraudin awakening somehow another demon had been roaming about free. Either it was summoned, which I believe is likely, or it had been in hibernation or roaming free for 20 years but somehow got "ordered" with an objective. Note as well this is a destruction of what I assume to be of significance, the world tree destroyed.

B) Attack of the trolls on the Druid shrine, one briefly mentioned as being the last mission of the Sins and this was while Fraudin was active. Wouldn't be surprised he had spurred the trolls, possible former vassals, into this. Druid Shrine is likely important being a link to the goddess clan.

C) Destruction of Danafor as already noted, and the demons made a point to visit it and Elizabeth herself hailed from said country (meaning they had ties with the goddess or such since the blood line of druids resided there).

D) Grey demon, no real detail but likely Fraudin's doing but if not his own... then something is weird in how another demon unseen for 3,000 years would conveniently pop up.

E) Fraudin awakening is in itself another oddity since it appears he was in hibernation for some time and somehow he awakens once again, much like the grey and red demon.

Aside from those based on the comments of the Ten Commandments it seems all the other clans aside from humans have almost entirely disappeared from the continent. Meaning, there would be far less resistance to any invasion. This also includes the goddess being exhausted from the war, and what appears to be several places related to them being destroyed, likely to cut off communication or help.

While the final baddie is not exactly revealed I do feel somebody is working behind the scenes since the events of things being destroyed, and demons awakening, are happening within a relatively short time frame.
 
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