Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2015] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[SharkBait]

What is true fantasy, magic? Fantasy is not limited to magic, it can be anything that is not possible in the real world.
I think they are trying to tag Black Cover as something that actually doesn't exist.

A manga with a guild in medieval times with magic is pure fantasy. BLack Clover is like a Tolkien Masterpiece. When was the last time jump had a manga in this time period?

 

[Caiops]

Really impressed to see Black Clover in third. That fudanshi boy user its gonna be happy.

Someone could post the shosei rankings, i'm interested to see if Tokyo Ghoul:RE is still on the top 10.

 

[conankudo]

What is true fantasy, magic? Fantasy is not limited to magic, it can be anything that is not possible in the real world.
I think they are trying to tag Black Cover as something that actually doesn't exist.

1. True fantasy might be sth like Record of Lodoss War, Berserk or Übel Blatt.
2. Read closely! The Jump Editor didn't tag Black Cover as true Fantasy. He only mentioned that true fantasy titles are rare in jump

 

[Leoat12]

A manga with a guild in medieval times with magic is pure fantasy. BLack Clover is like a Tolkien Masterpiece. When was the last time jump had a manga in this time period?

Very questionable definition of fantasy. Naruto is "pure fantasy" according to this deifnition, you only have to substitute mages for ninjas, as many said here. Anything supernatural can be considered fantasy. Fantasy is very broad.
Don't say such a thing in the middle of Lord of the Rings fans, they will not like it.

---------- Post added at 03:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:15 PM ----------

1. True fantasy might be sth like Record of Lodoss War, Berserk or Übel Blatt.
2. Read closely! The Jump Editor didn't tag Black Cover as true Fantasy. He only mentioned that true fantasy titles are rare in jump

1. And many others.
2. I'm reading closely, including the context! They say it and right after they mentioned Black Cover, just sum 2+2.

 

[conankudo]

Very questionable definition of fantasy. Naruto is "pure fantasy" according to this deifnition, you only have to substitute mages for ninjas, as many said here. Anything supernatural can be considered fantasy. Fantasy is very broad.
Don't say such a thing in the middle of Lord of the Rings fans, they will not like it.

It is not a questionable definition since we re speaking about mainstream. Just check wikipedia or any other encyclopaedia for once: In popular culture, the fantasy genre is predominantly of the medievalist form.

 

[xi0]

If it is a medieval setting and has magic, it's fantasy....not sure what there's to argue about...

 

[Leoat12]

It is not a questionable definition since we re speaking about mainstream. Just check wikipedia or any other encyclopaedia for once: In popular culture, the fantasy genre is predominantly of the medievalist form.

I'm not quetioning what is fantasy, this we already know, or at least should. I'm questioning the expression "true fantasy", what can be considered true fantasy? Fantasy, according to Wikipedia is this:
"Fantasy is a genre of fiction that commonly uses magic and other supernatural phenomena as a primary plot element, theme, or setting."
Fantasy uses magic and other supernatural phenomena, therefore you cannot say that only magic is true fantasy.

If it is a medieval setting and has magic, it's fantasy....not sure what there's to argue about...

It is obvious that it is fantasy, the problem is that it is not the unique "true fantasy" that exists.
I would accept "fantasy with mages and medieval are rare", it is much more clear.

 

[SharkBait]

Very questionable definition of fantasy. Naruto is "pure fantasy" according to this deifnition, you only have to substitute mages for ninjas, as many said here. Anything supernatural can be considered fantasy. Fantasy is very broad.
Don't say such a thing in the middle of Lord of the Rings fans, they will not like it.

---------- Post added at 03:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:15 PM ----------

1. And many others.
2. I'm reading closely, including the context! They say it and right after they mentioned Black Cover, just sum 2+2.

I wouldnt put Naruto as fantasy. There were skyscrapers and computer technology (LCD Monitors during the Chuunin Exams) and what not around the ninja villages and even within them, not to mention airplanes and space captains and the like in the Naruto universe [See Naruto Rock Lee and His Ninja Pals].

 

[xi0]

It is obvious that it is fantasy, the problem is that it is not the unique "true fantasy" that exists.
I would accept "fantasy with mages and medieval are rare", it is much more clear.

It's just their choice of wording, there's isn't a genre I know of called "true fantasy"

 

[Teeba]

Its kind of funny how ESJ readers picked Black Clover and low and behold this week Black Clover ranks quite high. I don't know if BC is going to stick around for long, but for once I can say Japan and Westerners have the same taste in manga.

 

[SharkBait]

Its kind of funny how ESJ readers picked Black Clover and low and behold this week Black Clover ranks quite high. I don't know if BC is going to stick around for long, but for once I can say Japan and Westerners have the same taste in manga.

As Shonen Jumps answer to Fairy Tail and 7taizai, I think it was to be expected.

 

[Bigivelfhq]

A manga with a guild in medieval times with magic is pure fantasy. BLack Clover is like a Tolkien Masterpiece. When was the last time jump had a manga in this time period?

Are you for a case saying that all kinds of Fairy Tales that came way before Tolkien aren't pure Fantasies?

 

[SharkBait]

Are you for a case saying that all kinds of Fairy Tales that came way before Tolkien aren't pure Fantasies?

Tolkien redefined the genre making it approachable for all. Before it was just folk tales.

 

[G_I_A]

Souma have CP don't rank.

Thanks for the heads up... Let me correct myself then:

So Black Clover is ABOVE My hero Academia and Haikyuu?

Also, its AMAZING how Black Clover has the power to ignite discussions in this thread.

 

[SharkBait]

Going back pages, no one seemed to get the 10internets for predicting the BLack Clover position. Odd that most people had it in the bottom five or so :/

 

[Bigivelfhq]

Tolkien redefined the genre making it approachable for all. Before it was just folk tales.

LOL, I know that you tell everything as hyperbole, but please. "Redefined the genre"? Really?

Tolkien indeed was the main reason why the genre got popular again, but before him a lot of other authors wrote in that genre, and it wasn't just "folk tales", as you say.
Tolken didn't redefined any genre, he brought it back to the spotlight and because of that he is to many called "The Father of Modern Fantasy". Note, MODERN FANTASY. Not FANTASY!

King Arthur books-> They exist since 6th century!
Journey to the West -> Published in 1592
Don Quixote -> Published in 1605(Not really a Fantasy story, but a sarcastic critic about all the Medieval Cavalry Fantasies stories made at that time. This books talks about wizards, and giants and all that stuff.)
Dracula -> Published in 26 May 1897
The Hobbit -> Published in 21 September 1937

I believe that the "true" fantasy that ESJ is talking is a world completely different from our own(modern time era). Basically the fact that majority of Weekly Shonen Jump series use things from the present time or close, like for example earphones(Naruto), pistols(One Piece), Skyscrapers(Toriko), ...

 

[ElJin]

I think meaningless discuss here about the success of Black Clover, he still had only two ranked chapters. All of us here have seen mangas that started extremely well and fell over time, as well as mangas that started badly and went up to the top. So, if Black Clover will be a huge success or not will depend on their future positions and sales, end of story. We need to have a little of patience.

 

[Mawara]

I wouldnt put Naruto as fantasy. There were skyscrapers and computer technology (LCD Monitors during the Chuunin Exams) and what not around the ninja villages and even within them, not to mention airplanes and space captains and the like in the Naruto universe [See Naruto Rock Lee and His Ninja Pals].

Of course Naruto was fantasy. It just wasnt medieval fantasy(although it would be more samurai/ninja fantasy, I guess). The setting is just one factor, because there are also steampunk and stories with a modern age-setting, with high fantasy elements, which I would also call fantasy stories. The term 'true fantasy' is not only very questionable, it is pretty inaccurate. If I should describe Black Clover, then I would clearly say it is High Fantasy.

 

[Ecchi Boy]

Shounen Jump Issue 20(4/13/2015):
Gintama (Cover, Lead CP)
?
?
Black Clover
?
My Hero Academia
?
Kagamigami
?
Hinomaru Zumou
?
?
Ultra Battle Satellite
World Trigger
Bleach
Kochikame
Cyborg Roggy
Takujou no Ageha
Gakkyu Houtei
The story of Isobe Isobee

Toriko (Absent)

Preview Issue 21 (4/20/2015):
Cover, Lead CP: Nisekoi
CP: Haikyu!!, Kagamigami, One Shot

Preview Issue 22-23 (Double Issue (4/27/2015)
Naruto Gaiden

BC in Thrid!? Which one of you Jinxed it and Doomed us all?

 

[Txapeldun]

A manga with a guild in medieval times with magic is pure fantasy. BLack Clover is like a Tolkien Masterpiece. When was the last time jump had a manga in this time period?

Wow, you've reached a new top here.

By the way, I'm really liking Black Clover too. It sure gives a Dostoyevsky vibe.