Like so many other things in life, it's not black and white. There's some grey area and variables to consider.
I can agree with that much. I don't see the curse as the only deciding factor, but I certainly see it as a distinct one. Not even the biggest deciding factor. Distinct enough not to ignore though.Notak said:
So you say but you were arguing as though it is the only factor. You were talking about how Sasuke was destined to turn crazy and screw things up.
First off, I never once said it was the only factor.Holt said:
You do realize how weak the evidence proving the curse actually is?
You didn't fully state that but you said
You're implying that it was when you say he was designed that way. Basically it doesn't matter because there's the curse of hatred and he's 'designed' to make those choices. Even if you argue that you didn't say it was the only factor, you're saying it's important enough to outweigh whatever other factors may exist.
The curse is not non-existent however, it is not as important as you're making it out to be. The Uchiha are emotional beings who draw their power that way. They have a mechanism in their genes that allows them to draw power even with negative emotions. Drawing power has little to do with the choices they make. You imply that the curse affects them so much that they lose reason and go crazy. That is not the case. The curse is an outlet for them to pour hatred into. The decision to do so lies entirely on the uchiha in question as the curse is incapable of making them hate. Jins face a more dire situation than this. The bijuu allows them to enact their feelings of hatred but that decision still rests on the jin. That's why you have some like kid Gaara and others like Naruto and Bee. It's even worse with Jins because the bijuu are actual sentient beings that can control them and are actively manipulating or goading them. The existence of a curse has nothing to do with the actions and decisions Sasuke took. This is the part you're ignoring.
Well destiny and Fate are synonymous but no problem.
That was indeed what you implied not what was mistaken. Anyway the concept you're using here is one similar to power/money corrupting people. The power isn't to blame, rather it is the person who succumbs to it. The power in this case would be the the sharingan. Seeing as it feeds of emotion, growing hatred increases it's power. The fact that Uchiha keep going down this route because it grants them more power to act on this hatred is in their hands. The sharingan or curse is incapable of manipulating the uchiha. You could simply just call them power-hungry fellows and when you give the option of growing in power via hatred to such people (who have already encountered loss), well, the outcome is simple. This is proven most when Obito explained to Naruto back after he had a chat with Sasuke. When he exhausts an option, Sasuke would simply turn his hatred to something else no matter how fickle. You have to understand that this is not because the curse is doing anything to him. He simply realized that he would grow stronger with hatred due to the sharingan and continued down that path and also due to being manipulated by numerous people for majority of his life that he begins to think in a twisted way. Still even normal Uchiha would never get to that psychotic level. Sasuke, Madara and Obito only did so because in addition to undergoing severe trauma, they were actively manipulated by others until they lost themselves.
No, it's not like that. What would be more accurate is that the family line all loved smoking because they enjoyed it and thus ended up with cancer and then the loss of hair. The curse (if it can even be called that) isn't nearly as definitive as you're implying.
Some evidence is better than no evidence. Which is what everyone trying to refute me has offered up: opinions and misunderstandings. I'm the only one in here with any sort of canon reference, so I'm the only one in here who's opinion is worth dick.Delbi said:
Tobirama doesn't have to be a medical ninja: he's a genius. He created the most complex non-doujutsu techniques in the whole manga (Hiraishin, Kage Bunshin, AND Edo Tensei). This proves his understanding of chakra as well as the human body, as he had to learn to reanimate corpses as well as manipulate chakra beyond that of simple shape manipulation and elemental reconstitution. Tobirama's a genius.
As opposed to who's word? Yours? Holt's? M3J's?
Only three examples!?!
No. You cant read the manga and still come to this conclusion. You're simply wrong. Blatantly so. Only reason I'm even still humoring you guys is because I had no idea there were this many people who just decided it's okay to cut out an important part of the manga, and I want to find out why you're doing it.
Of course he was biased against the Uchiha. That's what caused him to view even the ones that weren't Sharingan wielding ninja as threats. He was a devious bigot, and I don't agree with the idea that all Uchiha were ticking time bombs. I do agree with the idea that all Uchiha who gain the Sharingan have the potential to fall to the curse of hatred though. Not just from what we've seen, but because everything we've read that comes from the history of ninja and the Uchiha, as well as Tobirama's experiments give weight to the argument.Exodi said:
That's thing though, we know nothing about his experiments or the methods he used. His bias could have easily clouded the results of said experiments, especially if it was only based on the body of Madara and no one else. Madara was exposed to Black Zetsu and was transmigrant of Indra. It's possible that the "evil chakra" he sensed in Madara was nothing more the manifestation of Indra (see Black Zetsu's) will in his body.
Not only Uchihas but every ninja who has face the emotional trauma like Uchihas has affinity to fall to negative side.