Discussion Ranking the Sins

[Holt]

As far as I can tell LV does not actually split meliodas' strength. I mean, his power does not seem to decrease as he makes clones. Now, the clones themselves do have a portion of mel's strength. The first one has half his PL and each subsequent one has the corresponding fraction to that clone depending on how many he makes. It seems like amking the clones comes to no cost to mel at all.

Well we already saw that it actually divides his PL so it weakens or at least reduces his his strength. In the end, the clones + him total to his overall PL and so far, defeating the clones doesn't seem to have any repercussions but when they are active, Mel (and the clones) are weaker.

thats not what I meant. I meant it makes individual abilities, like full counter and Disaster, less exhausting.

Well yeah, the ST do increase or amplify their options with their respective abilities but my point was, the ST don't always make the user 'stronger' in a fighting sense per se. Basically, Gowther using his ST will be stronger and more effective using invasion but there likely wouldn't be any change to his own fighting ability.

 

[kkck]

Well we already saw that it actually divides his PL so it weakens or at least reduces his his strength. In the end, the clones + him total to his overall PL and so far, defeating the clones doesn't seem to have any repercussions but when they are active, Mel (and the clones) are weaker.



Well yeah, the ST do increase or amplify their options with their respective abilities but my point was, the ST don't always make the user 'stronger' in a fighting sense per se. Basically, Gowther using his ST will be stronger and more effective using invasion but there likely wouldn't be any change to his own fighting ability.

What the explanation says is that he creates clones and each close has a fraction of meliodas' power. However the power of the real meliodas does not change no matter how many clones he makes. Meliodas is basically getting free clones out of his ST.

I think the ST and higher quality weapons do have an effect on overall fighting ability. Just look at the sin's initial confrontations with guila and jericho along with when meliodas got his sacred treasure back. realistically speaking there is no rational way in which guila and jericho should move at anything but a turtle pace next to the sins. Ban in particular is exceptionally quick and even then he had trouble with guila (though her ability itself at the time seemed to increase her speed). And arthur commented on mel's speed the second he got the sacred treasure back. I think there is at least some evidence that the power drawn by weapons can have an effect on basic combat capability.

 

[Holt]

What the explanation says is that he creates clones and each close has a fraction of meliodas' power. However the power of the real meliodas does not change no matter how many clones he makes. Meliodas is basically getting free clones out of his ST.

I think the ST and higher quality weapons do have an effect on overall fighting ability. Just look at the sin's initial confrontations with guila and jericho along with when meliodas got his sacred treasure back. realistically speaking there is no rational way in which guila and jericho should move at anything but a turtle pace next to the sins. Ban in particular is exceptionally quick and even then he had trouble with guila (though her ability itself at the time seemed to increase her speed). And arthur commented on mel's speed the second he got the sacred treasure back. I think there is at least some evidence that the power drawn by weapons can have an effect on basic combat capability.

You're right. Somehow I completely missed that. Well yeah, the ST will increase overall ability in a fight as it amplifies their abilities and their weapons are pretty sturdy themselves, but it isn't always physical change. King for example doesn't increase in strength even with his ST. Gowther uses a bow and I don't really see how that would boost his physical abilities. The bow will simply amplify his invasions effectiveness and all, but wouldn't affect his fighting ability itself.

 

[kkck]

You're right. Somehow I completely missed that. Well yeah, the ST will increase overall ability in a fight as it amplifies their abilities and their weapons are pretty sturdy themselves, but it isn't always physical change. King for example doesn't increase in strength even with his ST. Gowther uses a bow and I don't really see how that would boost his physical abilities. The bow will simply amplify his invasions effectiveness and all, but wouldn't affect his fighting ability itself.

Well, holding any particular weapon in itself does not make sense in regards to an increase in physical capacity. However it does seem like guila and jericho with proper weapons had the physical capacity to keep the unarmed sins at bay and meliodas might have gone through an increase in speed when he got his lostvayne. Assuming this is the case then king probably is able to use his "true" strength thanks to chastiefol however his true strength is ridiculously low to begin with so it wouldn't be relevant anyways. The same logic would probably work for gowther in regards to his physical capacity. Though of course the sacred treasure would not increase the effectiveness of his illusions...

I wonder if full counter would work with gowther's herrit... If shooting at attacks can trigger full counter then it might be even more convenient than lostvayne for this. On the other hand lostvayne would be pretty effective with gowther too. Getting in close range and creating clones would be quite effective against strong enemies.

 

[overlordpringerx]

You're right. Somehow I completely missed that. Well yeah, the ST will increase overall ability in a fight as it amplifies their abilities and their weapons are pretty sturdy themselves, but it isn't always physical change. King for example doesn't increase in strength even with his ST. Gowther uses a bow and I don't really see how that would boost his physical abilities. The bow will simply amplify his invasions effectiveness and all, but wouldn't affect his fighting ability itself.

That's exactly what I meant. They don't really make you more powerful. Read King's explanation of how they work more thoroughly. Sacred treasures allow you to use more of your own power, they don't give you more. They just make it easier to use your full power, but you have the same limit as without them. That means that if you are weak, you will still be even with a sacred treasure. And Gowther's abilities aren't that useful in a fight anyway. His fighting prowess without Invasion isn't that much better than a mid-to-high level holy knight.

 

[Holt]

I wonder if full counter would work with gowther's herrit... If shooting at attacks can trigger full counter then it might be even more convenient than lostvayne for this. On the other hand lostvayne would be pretty effective with gowther too. Getting in close range and creating clones would be quite effective against strong enemies.

Well that would be an interesting situation but I doubt it would work. I think Mel would still have to use the bow directly for FC instead of being able to shoot arrows which counter.

 

[HereNThere]

So with this latest chapter, the "official" rankings are:

Escanor (Day) (Over 5000 at the very least)
Merlin (4710)
King (4190)
Meliodas (3370)
Diane (3250)
Ban (3220)
Gowther (3100)
Escanor (Night) (300 at the most)

This is not counting Mel's demon form and King's True Chastifol, which has both of their power spike beyond the 10 Thousands.

I wonder how this list will shift once the power ups start dropping.

 

[Livewire12]

Re: Nanatsu no Taizai 135 Discussion/ 136 Predictions

Lol lame sarcasm but it's true and I'm stating the obvious, there's no way Esca is "easily" stronger than Meliodas at full power if that was the case he could end this arc by himself by 1 v 10 and raping all commandments and that would hurt the plot but I'm sure he's close in terms of power. Oh yeah anybody notice the commandment with multiple faces resemble the gray demon's face ? Most like a black demon lol.

Nakaba gave Meliodas his power back before even officially introducing Escanor, let alone start building hype torwards his noon form.

There is no way Meliodas is stronger than him full power or not.

It is obvious that Escanor is nowhere near power of Meliodas lol
Commandments simply analyzed both of powers that destroyed Edinburgh and they weren't even bothered by the power of Escanor. It was like, oh yea someone blew up everything here but in case of Melidas they were quite surprised. Just read what they said. And here in Edinburgh Mel just used fraction of his power. Oh and from what they said we can assume that there are still leftovers of MEls power inside this hole even after 10 years.

Here:

Spoiler

and here:

Spoiler

And it was obvious that Merlin said something like that, because why would Nakaba reveal something so important like that, that Meliodas is walking nuke, accursed demon. It would kill the plot. He just hyped Escanor because he showed him the first time and he still is big mystery.
This discussion really doesn't make sense because it is obvious who is the strongest.

Yes, because them not being impressed with Escanor's dawn strength(when he's at his absolute weakest during the day) is a clear indication of strong he is an entire 6 hours later. -.-

Let's just completely ignore that Escanor went from being the weakest holy knight in the kingdom to fodderizing a guy with a power level of 4800(ish), at the crack of dawn.

You don't even know how rapidly his power increases during the day, but the indication is that it's insane, and most likely the later in the day it is the faster his power grows.

That was a horrible attempt to de hype him, and that argument made no sense lol.

 

[dark123]

Re: Nanatsu no Taizai 135 Discussion/ 136 Predictions

It is obvious that Escanor is nowhere near power of Meliodas lol
Commandments simply analyzed both of powers that destroyed Edinburgh and they weren't even bothered by the power of Escanor. It was like, oh yea someone blew up everything here but in case of Melidas they were quite surprised. Just read what they said. And here in Edinburgh Mel just used fraction of his power.

Oh and from what they said we can assume that there are still leftovers of Mel's power inside this hole even after 10 years. I am talking about this words: "Residual power"

Here:

Spoiler

and here:

Spoiler

And it was obvious that Merlin said something like that, because why would Nakaba reveal something so important like that, that Meliodas is walking nuke, accursed demon. It would kill the plot. He just hyped Escanor because he showed him the first time and he still is big mystery.
This discussion really doesn't make sense because it is obvious who is the strongest.

 

[TarXan]

Re: Nanatsu no Taizai 135 Discussion/ 136 Predictions

Lame sarcasm ? No, I'm just considering Merlin is closer to the truth than you, that's all. And I never said Escanor was easily stronger than Meliodas, I'm just saying if I go your way (Meliodas holding his power), then being "easily" stronger than Meliodas at his peak mean he should be par on par with current Meliodas. Also, the "could stop this arc by himself" makes no sense now that we know Meliodas or King could have wiped of grey Hendrickson, but for some reasons (which we can perfectly understand for the sake of the previous arc) Nabaka decided to pull a Genkidama to make it more epic. There is no "logic" to seek here.

Never claimed you said that, YOU quoted the line Merlin stated in the edinburgh chapter, claiming Escanor's power at noon "easily" surpassed all of the sins. What I meant was if his power level at 12 easily surpassed all 7 including Meliodas he should have no problem beating all commandments seeing how Meliodas just destroyed Galan without even trying. I'm just saying nobody really knows how strong Meliodas is because he's always holding back so it was too early in the story for Merlin to make that statement, if she's never seen Meliodas go all out.

---------- Post added at 03:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:17 PM ----------

Nakaba gave Meliodas his power back before even officially introducing Escanor, let alone start building hype torwards his noon form.

There is no way Meliodas is stronger than him full power or not.

Yes, because them not being impressed with Escanor's dawn strength(when he's at his absolute weakness during the day) is a clear indication of strong he is an entire 6 hours later. -.-

Let's just completely ignore that Escanor went from being the weakest holy knight in the kingdom to fodderizing a guy with a power level of 4800(ish), at the crack of dawn.

You don't even know how rapidly his power increases during the day, but the indication is that it's insane.

That was a horrible attempt to de hype him lol.

Obviously Meliodas had his full power during that chapter for the 100th time he's been keeping his power in check and constantly holding back since the beginning of the manga, nobody know how stronger he is at maximum power. It;s obvious he held back against Galan in this chapter as well. We know Esca is strong but I doubt Merlin knew Meliodas' true power level during the Edinbrugh chapters.

 

[kkck]

Nothing regarding their power is obvious at this stage. The only thing we really know about escanor at this stage is that he is perhaps the only sin besides meliodas whose power can rival a commandment from the get go. Merlin did say escanor had the highest PL among the sins but we really have no idea of whether that applied to all stages of mel's power or his power as a whole. As we know meliodas has his basic form which is how he spends most of the time and then he has his demon power activation which is presumably the basic form the commandments are in and then the darkness thing where the black thing erratically covers his body.

 

[TarXan]

Nothing regarding their power is obvious at this stage. The only thing we really know about escanor at this stage is that he is perhaps the only sin besides meliodas whose power can rival a commandment from the get go. Merlin did say escanor had the highest PL among the sins but we really have no idea of whether that applied to all stages of mel's power or his power as a whole. As we know meliodas has his basic form which is how he spends most of the time and then he has his demon power activation which is presumably the basic form the commandments are in and then the darkness thing where the black thing erratically covers his body.

Exactly Escanor fanboys need to see this post and according to Helbram apparently Meliodas has a " true form ", nobody really knows how powerful he is. Galan stated in chapter 127 "he shook the Demon Clan to it's core" hinting how strong he is. I think it's safe to say he's the reason why the goddess and other clans won the war. Not implying or alluding to the fact that he single handily won the war but he changed the tide and gave the other clans the advantage.

 

[kkck]

Exactly Escanor fanboys need to see this post and according to Helbram apparently Meliodas has a " true form ", nobody really knows how powerful he is. Galan stated in chapter 127 "he shook the Demon Clan to it's core" hinting how strong he is. I think it's safe to say he's the reason why the goddess and other clans won the war. Not implying or alluding to the fact that he single handily won the war but he changed the tide and gave the other clans the advantage.

Well, shaking up the demon clan does not necessarily allude to his powers. To me that is probably because meliodas was a high ranking demon who betrayed the clan. Its also kinda debatable that the goddess clan "won" the war, specially with mel's help. They ended up powerless and formless for 3000 years so far and the giant and fairy clan dwindled while humanity prospered. Its not really much of a win at least for the goddess and demon clan.

 

[TarXan]

Well, shaking up the demon clan does not necessarily allude to his powers. To me that is probably because meliodas was a high ranking demon who betrayed the clan. Its also kinda debatable that the goddess clan "won" the war, specially with mel's help. They ended up powerless and formless for 3000 years so far and the giant and fairy clan dwindled while humanity prospered. Its not really much of a win at least for the goddess and demon clan.

You have a good point but it's stated that the giants dwindle because of constant wars and fights, idk about the fairies lol.

 

[julymarte]

we saw his hinted shadow tho it looked vaguely similar to fraudrin's and apparently hendy had seen a glimpse of it too
maybe regarding merlin' comment about escanor it might count only considering the meliodas everyone know.... but this doesn't mean that the meliodas everyone know is the true one... also the sentence he says to glan.... he said a bit so even that huge power is only a portion of his actual potential?

 

[dark123]

we saw his hinted shadow tho it looked vaguely similar to fraudrin's and apparently hendy had seen a glimpse of it too
maybe regarding merlin' comment about escanor it might count only considering the meliodas everyone know.... but this doesn't mean that the meliodas everyone know is the true one... also the sentence he says to glan.... he said a bit so even that huge power is only a portion of his actual potential?

I think that he simply never was able to use his real power because he couldn't control it so now when he found a way to control it he will be able to learn how to use it. In the past he was able to use fraction of his power without losing himself in wrath and it happened in Edinburgh. We can assume that when he is in his base mode( without mark of demon) he wont be able to lose himself in wrath but in that form he can not use his real power. Just like Zaneli said he was walking nuke before because he could lose himself in wrath but now from what she said we can assume that he is even more dangerous because he can control his wrath and this lets him to learn how to use his powers properly and use it whole, which was impossible in the past. Just simple fight with King showed him simple way how he can use his power of darkness and now he can concentrate it in any kind of shape. So there is only one conclusion and that is that Meliodas is going to be stronger and stronger from now while learning how to use his power. He resembles Deku from MHA. Meliodas is just like Deku who couldn't use his power because of certain factors but after he found out a way, he is going to step by step getting better and better access to his real power.

 

[Holt]

Ah, the good old Escanor and Mel argument. Tbh, we really can't say anything until we actually see Escanor. I suppose his power would be comparable to Mel though. When the sun is at his highest, he's certainly going to be a beast but as far as who's stronger goes, there's not much aside speculation.

 

[julymarte]

also cause we never w him ue his st we have no idea how he fights eccept tat huge light/heat burst and in my opinion the fighting style and abilities are as important as the pl and here we have just huuuuuge question mark

 

[SpectrumRay16]

Ah, the good old Escanor and Mel argument. Tbh, we really can't say anything until we actually see Escanor. I suppose his power would be comparable to Mel though. When the sun is at his highest, he's certainly going to be a beast but as far as who's stronger goes, there's not much aside speculation.

Couldn't have said it better myself, we know that Meliodas can wreck Galan with all his power back (although since he was not using his mark or dark matter that is probably what he was referring to when he said only a fraction of his power) and well... we saw what he did to Danafor in chapter 130 XD
But, yeah... all we saw Escanor do so far is swing his Sacred treasure twice, pick it up, use his presence to deflect dark magic and blow up the castle at dawn.
Here is a good question though, Merlin had not taken Meliodas's true power away (yet he was probably not using it), is Meliodas now capable of lifting up Escanor's sacred treasure? Or is it like Mjolnir and can only be wielded by Escanor?

Another question i have though, is if Meliodas will get stronger when using his demon mark (i am assuming he will) after all he got up to 10,300 when he activated the dark matter around his body. So if he is at let's say ten times his strength, when fighting Galan in chapter 135, then he would be at 33700, which means he would have 44000 with the demon mark on his forehead and 103000 at max power. I think the maximum strength Meliodas can get to is 150000 and that is the limit this far into the plot. Would like to know what everyone thinks his power level is now that he has his power back

---------- Post added at 08:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 PM ----------

also cause we never w him ue his st we have no idea how he fights eccept tat huge light/heat burst and in my opinion the fighting style and abilities are as important as the pl and here we have just huuuuuge question mark

I think Escanor's fighting style is a little weird... we are shown that he is very fast in the second chapter and that he is very strong in the 3rd. Escanor's power level is unknown and will probably remain like that until Hawk measures it or Merlin tells us. His fighting style seems to be very fast or very sturdy.
He took several swings from the vampire King, was engulfed by impurity and simply existed to blow that magic away.
I think in his day form, on an opponent he does not think highly or/not worthy of respect he will stand still and will slash at them when they come close, he chose to overpower the vampire king instead of fight him fairly without any magic... so perhaps Escanor does not have a fighting style?
If he does it will be him using his abnormal strength and speed to quickly smash opponents to pieces... the question is can Escanor use other weapons or does he prefer the axe?

The axe looks like he can wield it, but, it also looks like it was designed to weight him down, his armor does too. Perhaps Bartras had that sacred treasure made for Escanor so he could not use it to it's maximum potential? In that case i would love to see him use that axe fully. It looks like he can do some serious damage with it, after all he did not even hit the vampire king with his slash... if he did it would have slashed through his entire body cutting off both his arm and leg. I think he emitted his presence through the axe and that hit the vampire king. It also began burning him because of the nature of the cut.
So maybe Escanor is a fast fighter who obliterates his opponents with speed rather than sturdiness. I guess we have to see if he has a fighting style or not XD
He is very composed when he fights though that's for sure :P

 

[Demonspeed]

Couldn't have said it better myself, we know that Meliodas can wreck Galan with all his power back (although since he was not using his mark or dark matter that is probably what he was referring to when he said only a fraction of his power) and well... we saw what he did to Danafor in chapter 130 XD
But, yeah... all we saw Escanor do so far is swing his Sacred treasure twice, pick it up, use his presence to deflect dark magic and blow up the castle at dawn.
Here is a good question though, Merlin had not taken Meliodas's true power away (yet he was probably not using it), is Meliodas now capable of lifting up Escanor's sacred treasure? Or is it like Mjolnir and can only be wielded by Escanor?

Another question i have though, is if Meliodas will get stronger when using his demon mark (i am assuming he will) after all he got up to 10,300 when he activated the dark matter around his body. So if he is at let's say ten times his strength, when fighting Galan in chapter 135, then he would be at 33700, which means he would have 44000 with the demon mark on his forehead and 103000 at max power. I think the maximum strength Meliodas can get to is 150000 and that is the limit this far into the plot. Would like to know what everyone thinks his power level is now that he has his power back

I think Meliodas should be able to carry it now given how he beat Galan with raw strength and that he was hiding his strength back then( 3370 so with his Strength at 960), Rhitta can't possibly be heavier than Gideon so Diane should be able to carry it without problems.

I think Escanor's fighting style is a little weird... we are shown that he is very fast in the second chapter and that he is very strong in the 3rd. Escanor's power level is unknown and will probably remain like that until Hawk measures it or Merlin tells us. His fighting style seems to be very fast or very sturdy.
He took several swings from the vampire King, was engulfed by impurity and simply existed to blow that magic away.
I think in his day form, on an opponent he does not think highly or/not worthy of respect he will stand still and will slash at them when they come close, he chose to overpower the vampire king instead of fight him fairly without any magic... so perhaps Escanor does not have a fighting style?
If he does it will be him using his abnormal strength and speed to quickly smash opponents to pieces... the question is can Escanor use other weapons or does he prefer the axe?

The axe looks like he can wield it, but, it also looks like it was designed to weight him down, his armor does too. So maybe Escanor is a fast fighter who obliterates his opponents with speed rather than sturdiness. I guess we have to see if he has a fighting style or not XD
He is very composed when he fights though that's for sure :P

Escanor with his build probably a fighter like Diane, a tank, but with more Magic than Strength, almost all the Sins are speedsters. From what he shown so far his Sunshine could easily be Full Countered/dispelled.