Shounen Naruto by Masashi Kishimoto

[Machi-tan]

I don't even know why the usage of the Anime was required for that point. I mean literally two scans from the manga have naruto recieving chakra prepped for jutsus from Bijuus.

Even in the fight vs Kaguya i remember one of the bijuus asking if naruto was ready for him to mold his chakra so he can have over the top physical strength.

But i agree somewhat. The anime as proof only goes so far i suppose. There is alot of padding and dramatic elements to make it better of a watch. If that Anime was taken seriously then naruto could do Oodama rasengan within 4 months of learning the actual rasengan. But i'm not particularly inclined to one side or the other.

I think the anime can be referenced to a certain extent in cannon material. But as someone stated before. They've been known to miff details and add extras just for enjoyment not necessarily for enlightenment.

 

[KiSwordsman]

I agree that using the anime as verification perhaps isn't the best method. It's backward, sure.

But I also thought it was pretty obvious that Naruto both used a Truthseeking Ball to create a Tailed Beast Rasenshuriken and that he got help from the tailed beasts to create his multiple variations of elemental Rasengans.


Also, I don't understand your Naruto vs. Pain example. What about the fight in the anime, even with all of the filler, was factually incorrect or misleading?

A better example would be during Jiraiya's fight, where Pa sprayed out a high-pressure stream of water. That's actually supposed to be his tongue.

Regarding the pain example:

Spoiler

The bodies drop like flies to Rasengan, and they haven't been shown to be any type of durable aside from the one made of chakra machinery. At the very least not more durable than an average human body. The one thing that protected them was God realm. But it was still active after this? Also, thank you for the the Jiraiya example I watched the pain fight simply because people were saying how garbage it was. Well, at least the stuff the anime slid in for it.

Regarding everything else I'm not saying that he didn't get help from the demons or didn't use a truth seeking orb. That was the depicted with the sound effect near one of them in the chapter. My point is with using the anime as a basis for anything that's not anime related. Because like we all know, they get stuff wrong a lot. I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with the interpretation that was made.

 

[ninjabot]

Well, that's an old story.

Though, isn't the TSB in question, converted into a TBB ? Basically, that's what Kurama seems to be doing there and then, Naruto adds the Rasen Shuriken's power to it and after the explosion, it turns back into a TSB.

I think it goes back to the general idea that a TBB cannot be performed while the person is in human form. Thus, Naruto needed Kurama to convert the TSB into a TBB. Though, Naruto did perform 6 TBBRS a chapter later, without asking for Kurama's assistance. -[x]

That was kinda my point. Killerbee stated it takes unison/working in tandem with your Bijuu to perform Bijuudama in the first place. By that simple logic it'd require unison with your bijuu to perform any other technique that uses Bijuudama along with it... meaning they're doing a portion of the work. The part that people probably didn't get was why I was claiming that the Truthseekers were the cores used for the Bijuudama FRS. My reasoning was simply because we SEE Naruto with a truthseeker in his hand when he does it. Everyone else believed it was just him making a Bijuudama in his hand (they're the same color, easy mistake to make). But then the anime SHOWED the actual truthseeker float over to Naruto's hand before turning into a Bijuudama FRS.

Just a quick question. why are anime episodes being relied on for any form of clarification?

Not clarification. Validation. Confirmation even, because it happened the same way it did in the manga. The "manga is canon, anime is not" stipulation is only brought up (or should only be brought up) when the anime contradicts the manga. It's not contradicting anything here.

An example of what you're thinking of when ever you say anime shouldn't be used for clarification would be seeing Kakashi use Katon in the anime when he never does it in the manga. It would be erroneous to claim that Kakashi has been confirmed to have Katon because he used it in the anime (and games), because he never did it in the manga.

Two different scenarios.

@everyone else: The point of bringing it up in the first place was just to right a previous wrong. In the old "Is it just me or was Naruto and Sasuke's final fight a draw?" thread, I mention Naruto used his final two truthseekers to counter Sasuke's Indra arrow, at which point I was told I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. This was just me saying "told ya so."

Also because Naruto's 9 Bijuudama FRS assault on Kaguya has previously been used as evidence of Naruto having the best chakra control in the manga when I don't think that's right, considering you have... fucking 9 other people helping you perform chakra control at the same time.

 

[shahdan]

I thought it was blatantly obvious in the manga once you add Bee's statement to the fact that Bijuus literally hand him over the chakra. Now he's in a possession of a Sage Mode that naturally smooths over any difficulties in managing the control over chakra. The real question is; what does Naruto actually do himself? One of NV's greatest mysteries. I wonder why I keep seeing Naruto being the sole 'champion of Chakra Control in the manga' statements. It is a very wrong claim to make.

 

[Zehahaha]

One question, it was said or confirmed that Hagormo is the one who created " the Moon " right ? How come Kaguya used the infinite Tsukiyomi if only Hagoromo created the moon by defeating her ?

 

[shahdan]

One question, it was said or confirmed that Hagormo is the one who created " the Moon " right ? How come Kaguya used the infinite Tsukiyomi if only Hagoromo created the moon by defeating her ?

I always wondered that myself.

 

[ninjabot]

Did they ever say she actually used Mugen Tsukuyomi before? I know that she had white Zetsu connected to her tree but I don't think they have to be stuck in Mugen Tsukuyomi in order to be podded by the tree. I could be wrong. As for the moon... I interpreted that as Hagoromo and Hamura's Rikudou Chibaku Tensei being so powerful that it didn't just pull pieces of earth together, but pulled the actual moon closer to the earth, ripping it apart and fusing it together with the orb Hamura and Hagaromo created. Then it just floated back into space where man couldn't touch it. Remember, Toneri was gonna slam the moon into the earth in that dumb ass movie?

I feel like the two Ootsutsuki children combined could do it with a Chibaku Tensei. So she could've used the original moon for Mugen Tsukuyomi, and then sealed inside the "new moon" after her defeat.

 

[shahdan]

Did they ever say she actually used Mugen Tsukuyomi before? I know that she had white Zetsu connected to her tree but I don't think they have to be stuck in Mugen Tsukuyomi in order to be podded by the tree. I could be wrong. As for the moon... I interpreted that as Hagoromo and Hamura's Rikudou Chibaku Tensei being so powerful that it didn't just pull pieces of earth together, but pulled the actual moon closer to the earth, ripping it apart and fusing it together with the orb Hamura and Hagaromo created. Then it just floated back into space where man couldn't touch it. Remember, Toneri was gonna slam the moon into the earth in that dumb ass movie?

I feel like the two Ootsutsuki children combined could do it with a Chibaku Tensei. So she could've used the original moon for Mugen Tsukuyomi, and then sealed inside the "new moon" after her defeat.

I am pretty sure one of the Viz Translations confirm it that she did use IT, because of which White Zetsus were created.

 

[Exodi]

Did they ever say she actually used Mugen Tsukuyomi before? I know that she had white Zetsu connected to her tree but I don't think they have to be stuck in Mugen Tsukuyomi in order to be podded by the tree. I could be wrong. As for the moon... I interpreted that as Hagoromo and Hamura's Rikudou Chibaku Tensei being so powerful that it didn't just pull pieces of earth together, but pulled the actual moon closer to the earth, ripping it apart and fusing it together with the orb Hamura and Hagaromo created. Then it just floated back into space where man couldn't touch it. Remember, Toneri was gonna slam the moon into the earth in that dumb ass movie?

I feel like the two Ootsutsuki children combined could do it with a Chibaku Tensei. So she could've used the original moon for Mugen Tsukuyomi, and then sealed inside the "new moon" after her defeat.

According to Black Zetsu, White Zetsu are original victims of Infinite Tsukuyomi, so it had to have been cast before. I always figured Kaguya didn't need to use the moon or something.

Remember, Toneri was gonna slam the moon into the earth in that dumb ass movie?

I wanted to like the Last, but hot damn it was boring.

 

[nichendrix]

One of NV's greatest mysteries. I wonder why I keep seeing Naruto being the sole 'champion of Chakra Control in the manga' statements. It is a very wrong claim to make.

I didn't understood if you're asking about fan's statements about the manga or the statements made in universe by manga characters.e.

 

[Zehahaha]

I wanted to like the Last, but hot damn it was boring.

The Last is all about those Naruto x Hinata moments, not about Toneri or any of the sort

 

[shahdan]

I didn't understood if you're asking about fan's statements about the manga or the statements made in universe by manga characters.

I am talking about fan statements.

 

[nichendrix]

I am talking about fan statements.

As far as in universe statements goes the epitome of chakra control are medical ninjutsu and sage mode, Naruto mastered the later to the most advanced level humanly possible by the Pain arc, later with RSM he again was able to bring it to a level only seen in Kaguya's descendants, in this state he could use medical ninjutsu on instinct an in levels above Tsunade and Sakura, arguably the 2 most skilled medical ninja of all time. Despite the fact that out of universe, Naruto doesn't seem to have that much chakra control, in universe there is no doubt to the other characters that he mastered these things to a level no one before him other than Kaguya and her twin sons ever achieved. This in no means diminish the fact that Sasuke achieved the same thing, albeit on a different fashion (being the reincarnation of Indra).

The problem is that the manga says a lot of things but never show them out the way it is said. In a way it remembers me the Sword of Truth book series, where Richard Rahl is the most powerful wizard in the world, but since his gift is different and he can only manifest magic in times of need, any half skilled wizard apprentice is shown to have a greater domain of magic than him most of the time.

 

[shahdan]

As far as in universe statements goes the epitome of chakra control are medical ninjutsu and sage mode, Naruto mastered the later to the most advanced level humanly possible by the Pain arc, later with RSM he again was able to bring it to a level only seen in Kaguya's descendants, in this state he could use medical ninjutsu on instinct an in levels above Tsunade and Sakura, arguably the 2 most skilled medical ninja of all time. Despite the fact that out of universe, Naruto doesn't seem to have that much chakra control, in universe there is no doubt to the other characters that he mastered these things to a level no one before him other than Kaguya and her twin sons ever achieved. This in no means diminish the fact that Sasuke achieved the same thing, albeit on a different fashion (being the reincarnation of Indra).

The problem is that the manga says a lot of things but never show them out the way it is said. In a way it remembers me the Sword of Truth book series, where Richard Rahl is the most powerful wizard in the world, but since his gift is different and he can only manifest magic in times of need, any half skilled wizard apprentice is shown to have a greater domain of magic than him most of the time.

The thing is, albeit I do understand your point, that in the manga Ninjutsu absolutely replies on Chakra Control. If the manga states that one character has better control then it can be taken as a relative statement. But once certain superlative qualities or comparisons are attached to it through a feat, it becomes undisputed. Naruto's Sage Mode literally allows him better chakra control. It isn't his skill.

Even then at the end, he chose extra hands to make two techs that he should have done so without the helping hands (no pun intended). Thousands of Kage Binhins that he has made only add up to his experience. And still the guy falters? That was my point. To top it off, the Bijuus Knead and then hand over the chakra. It means that little control on chakra is required from Naruto himself. That removes the relative factor when his skill is compared to Sakura (forget Sasuke, whose Chakra Control is well beyond his skill), who is managing a lot, and healing thousands by manipulating the seal that is 'the pinnacle of Chakra control'.

With feats, one can gauge where most characters lie and Naruto cannot be placed right at the top.

 

[nichendrix]

The thing is, albeit I do understand your point, that in the manga Ninjutsu absolutely replies on Chakra Control. If the manga states that one character has better control then it can be taken as a relative statement. But once certain superlative qualities or comparisons are attached to it through a feat, it becomes undisputed. Naruto's Sage Mode literally allows him better chakra control. It isn't his skill.

Even then at the end, he chose extra hands to make two techs that he should have done so without the helping hands (no pun intended). Thousands of Kage Binhins that he has made only add up to his experience. And still the guy falters? That was my point. To top it off, the Bijuus Knead and then hand over the chakra. It means that little control on chakra is required from Naruto himself. That removes the relative factor when his skill is compared to Sakura (forget Sasuke, whose Chakra Control is well beyond his skill), who is managing a lot, and healing thousands by manipulating the seal that is 'the pinnacle of Chakra control'.

With feats, one can gauge where most characters lie and Naruto cannot be placed right at the top.

What I find interesting is that manga statements are only relative when people wants to talk about things they don't like, when things are the way they like it, them manga statement becomes law. Do you get what I mean?

Sincerely, I would not argue too much with in universe statements unless there is a contradiction between two statements, other characters says Naruto have one of the best, possibly the best chakra control in their universe, this statement consistently repeated in the series since he got sage mode, sincerely I wouldn't argue with that, I'm no character in Narutoverse to explain why they say this, if the author says something about his story, I take on face value, even if I personally don't like it.

 

[M3J]

The Last is all about those Naruto x Hinata moments, not about Toneri or any of the sort

just to be clear, Toneri's not the pig, right? Its name is Tonton?

 

[Exodi]

just to be clear, Toneri's not the pig, right? Its name is Tonton?

Tonton is Shizune's pig. Akamaru is Kiba's dog. Pakkun is Kakashi's dog, and Enma is the Hiruzen's monkey summon.


Toneri is that guy from the movie who wanted to crash the moon into the Earth because he was mad at the Earth people for not using chakra good.

 

[shahdan]

Tonton is Shizune's pig. Akamaru is Kiba's dog. Pakkun is Kakashi's dog, and Enma is the Hiruzen's monkey summon.


Toneri is that guy from the movie who wanted to crash the moon into the Earth because he was mad at the Earth people for not using chakra good.

That is some plot. I am glad I remain ignorant.

 

[nichendrix]

Tonton is Shizune's pig. Akamaru is Kiba's dog. Pakkun is Kakashi's dog, and Enma is the Hiruzen's monkey summon.


Toneri is that guy from the movie who wanted to crash the moon into the Earth because he was mad at the Earth people for not using chakra good.

One question I have for a long time is if all animal summons are able to use senjutsu.

 

[KiSwordsman]

One question I have for a long time is if all animal summons are able to use senjutsu.

there was actually a thread about that a while back. Back when it was discovered that the toads were not the only animals that had access to Sage mode. I do find it kind of cliché that the main three summons of the series ended up being the only known users of the art. However, given the black lightning of the cloud village, we know that they're not the only users of Sage chakra. So there's that.

And what I mean by main three besides the obvious two being snake and toad:

Shikkotsurin
Katsuyu