Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2015-2016] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[DoctorApollo]

Gintama, Toriko, Fist of the North Star, Dragon Ball Z, Kinnikuman, Cat's Eye, Jojo, City Hunter, Otokojuku, Black Cat, Rurouni Kenshin to name a few with main characters beyond the age of 18.

i can't argue with most of those, but I just want to point out: Dragon Ball Z isn't a separate series to Dragon Ball. It's the same manga. It's only in the anime and in the west that they separate them. Okay, so that being said, Dragon Ball did not have an adult protagonist, it had a kid protagonist who grew up. Actually, when Goku grew up they were so concerned about having an adult MC that they had to introduce Gohan as the MC. (After they saw that people still liked Goku as an adult, it was changed back to Goku. But the whole reason Gohan even exists is because of this huge worry that the main character of a JUMP manga has to be a kid.)

so yeah, that's all I wanted to say, Dragon Ball is exactly the opposite of what you're trying to argue, because it's actually proof of how crucial young characters are in the eyes of the editors/writers of JUMP.

By the way, in some of those series there's a kid character that the reader is supposed to identify with / see the world through, such as FotNS, RK, for example.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

This had been bothering me a while but why do people complain about Jump editors in a general sense? Good Editors are able to make changes that have a positive effect on the popularity and quality of the manga. Not to mention that they are needed to get the full potential out of the Mangaka. Everyone should complain about the bad ones that cant do those things.

no one who is an actual writer complains about editors unless they're a pretentious ass, because they know what editors do. It is recognized that good editors are the reason good books (and manga, of course) exist. Let's not forget that KnB thrived under Yoshihiro Togashi, the one man who is pretty much incapable of making manga that won't sell.

A good editor is one of the things many of the successful unrelated manga have in common.

but yeah, complaints about editors are only made by young aspiring writers who are scared the editor will deny their great ideas (newsflash: the editor wants to make money, if your idea is good, there'll be no problem), and idiots on the internet who know nothing about how it works. Any actual writers know that book editors are one of the most important fucking parts of the process.

(basically, I agree with the Bakuman stance that saying your editor won't let you write what you want is the same as admitting your lack of skill. If you can't even convince one editor that a story is good, how would you get an audience!? And regarding the whole "well what if the editor is stupid/has shit taste" argument, well, editors who consistently fail are fired. Long-time and successful editors have proven their skill.)

 

[Soul Soul Brigade]

Yeah, I was wondering whether or not to include Dragon Ball Z in that list because Goku started off as a kid.

 

[Lehran]

Gintama, Toriko, Fist of the North Star, Dragon Ball Z, Kinnikuman, Cat's Eye, Jojo, City Hunter, Otokojuku, Black Cat, Rurouni Kenshin to name a few with main characters beyond the age of 18.

But have you noticed how old are most of those titles? The only ones which aren't from the 80s or from the 90s are Gintama, Toriko and Black Cat. So I think that, nowadays, shounen titles with an adult MC are few enough to be considered exceptions to the "rule".

My point in the previous post was that, at its core, World Trigger is just another fantasy-action shounen, like Naruto, Bleach or Reborn, which also have teenagers as fighters just because that's the target audience and the manga must resonate with its readers. I think there's no motive to take it more seriously than those other battle titles, it needs the same level of suspension of disbelief to be enjoyed.

 

[vampire killer]

But have you noticed how old are most of those titles? The only ones which aren't from the 80s or from the 90s are Gintama, Toriko and Black Cat. So I think that, nowadays, shounen titles with an adult MC are few enough to be considered exceptions to the "rule".

My point in the previous post was that, at its core, World Trigger is just another fantasy-action shounen, like Naruto, Bleach or Reborn, which also have teenagers as fighters just because that's the target audience and the manga must resonate with its readers. I think there's no motive to take it more seriously than those other battle titles, it needs the same level of suspension of disbelief to be enjoyed.

Lel dude. Unless it's super realistic people won't like it! Most of Jump manga are realistic and dont go super crazy.

 

[Stark700]

But... it's a fantasy shounen manga, of course you won't enjoy it if you overthink things like that. If the manga's heroes weren't children, it wouldn't even be running in WSJ...

My point in the previous post was that, at its core, World Trigger is just another fantasy-action shounen, like Naruto, Bleach or Reborn, which also have teenagers as fighters just because that's the target audience and the manga must resonate with its readers. I think there's no motive to take it more seriously than those other battle titles, it needs the same level of suspension of disbelief to be enjoyed.

When was World Trigger even a fantasy manga? Black Clover, sure. But World Trigger is sci-fi.
It's a sci-fi/strategy/action manga. It's more like, in its own category compared to other Jump manga.

The points mentioned don't really seem to be "overthinking" anything since it's a science fiction manga. It's reasonable to wonder those things.

 

[SharkBait]

World trigger and reborn are both sci fi.

 

[saef1234]

are there going to be any new series anytime soon?

 

[SharkBait]

are there going to be any new series anytime soon?

Buddystrike just started.

 

[saef1234]

Buddystrike just started.

i know but it was ONLY buddystrike. dont they normally have 3-4 new series every new round?

 

[Stark700]

i know but it was ONLY buddystrike. dont they normally have 3-4 new series every new round?

Mediocre Best Blue was also a solo add on.

 

[saef1234]

Mediocre Best Blue was also a solo add on.

Oh that's right. When was the last time there was more than one or two series in one round?

 

[RafaFedKilla]

Best Blue took too long to introduce elements from the oneshot. I had high hopes for it. Gonna have to stick to Somersault Turn for my swimming manga fix.

 

[Stark700]

Oh that's right. When was the last time there was more than one or two series in one round?

Hinomaru Zumo was also a single serial. It happens every so often, but it is rare.

 

[saef1234]

Hinomaru Zumo was also a single serial. It happens every so often, but it is rare.

Ok so the next round should be back to normal then? Kinda hoping garden by kimura yuuji gets serialized

 

[RafaFedKilla]

Ok so the next round should be back to normal then? Kinda hoping garden by kimura yuuji gets serialized

Yea, I love this mangaka's art style and that oneshot. Wondering what kind of adjustments could be made for a serialization. Gah now I want to read it again.

 

[Soul Soul Brigade]

Just read Garden. It has some good ideas, potential is there. At first I thought the design for the mechanical hand was terrible, but then, well if you've read it you know what happens. Garden was definitely an improvement over Peach Pluck. I think it could find success. There's definitely nothing like it in Jump right now, so it has that going for it.

 

[Mawara]

About the latest cover of Black Clover:
The red background hurts my eyes. Fuego Leon is already very bright & reddish, instead the background should have been something dark or even black, to create a more comfortable contrast.
Dont say it's 'bad', just that the choice of the color scheme was very unfortunate.

Ok then, lets discuss when World Trigger became bad. For me it was when the rank wars arc started. Way to kill the hype of the previous arc. Also, am I the only one really bothered by how Border functions? They're supposed to be an independent agency, but that would never work. The Japanese government would never approve a 3rd party organization with significant advancements in technology that far exceed the JSDF's own, and they would certainly never approve child soldiers. The Japanese government would only allow the existence of Border if Border was a subsidiary of the JSDF. Also, child soldiers. I don't care if triggers act as doubles and that the agents are never in any physical danger, the public would still highly look down upon the use of child soldiers. And you can't really defend the child soldier aspect by saying "oh well the younger the kid the more trion sensitive they are" because even with that being true the public would still never allow that. Their is just so much wrong with World Trigger that I'm surprised it's still around.

When 'World Triger became bad'? It's actually one of the most enjoyable manga in Shonen Jumo right now. With well-written character developments & extremely enjoyable fights. The rank wars present very good action & interesting team-work. I dont see, why it should be bad now(although, I admit, to see more of the invading forces & Neighbours would be nice).

Bothered how Borders function?
To be honest? No, not really. Border is a competent military organization, which is the only armed force to fight the Neighbours back(as far we know). I presume, they got a blank cheque as an organization. And about child soldiers? Well, it's almost the same like NGE and why only children could be used. Well, of course, they could also use adults(who exist in Border), but it was established, that the trion organs only grow in the time of adolescence and then stop growing.
It is a necessity to train them in their youth, if they want to fight an alien force, who cant be stopped by normal weapons!
Also, Border, as I said before, is a quite competent armed force. Compared tho them, the Gotei 13 of Bleach are just a bunch of idiots with no sense for strategies, and the only person, who seems to be smart, is a megalomaniac monster, who could be the incarnation of Ishii Shiro.
The publicity of Border is a plotpoint in WT, which was brought back several times. There were 2, 3 chapters dedicated for a press conference in that regard.
Also about 'child soldiers wouldnt be allowed'-aspect-
Yeah, the Neighbour forces are an enemy, which cant be defeated with normals means, and we talk about Japan (I try to be politicaly correct) and it did much worse things for less 'good' reasons.
The idea of child soldiers in the face of an unstoppable enemy doesnt look that unreasonable, if you think about it.

Just asked the Viz-letterer of World Trigger about her opinion about the 'child soldier'-topic on Twitter and here is her response:

"Sure, they're children soldiers, but they're compensated and because they fight in Trion bodies there's not really a danger to them, unless you're Osamu and decide not to use your Trion body. In the Neighbor worlds, kids seem to fight, but it also seems to be fight-or-die situations in some places. That all doesn't make it "okay" I guess, but it's not your… typical child soldier sorta thing?"

 

[DoctorApollo]

World trigger and reborn are both sci fi.

wat

reborn is like 90% magic hot guys

there's no real scientific explanation the trinisette and frequencies it's all bullshit, all the curses and stuff are basically "magic."

i mean she tries to bullshit an explanation, but we all know the real explanation is "magic hot guys."

it's supernatural/fantasy.

 

[SharkBait]

wat

reborn is like 90% magic hot guys

there's no real scientific explanation the trinisette and frequencies it's all bullshit, all the curses and stuff are basically "magic."

i mean she tries to bullshit an explanation, but we all know the real explanation is "magic hot guys."

it's supernatural/fantasy.

When was there fantasy? Major antagonist is from a parallel world world travelling, Choice, time travelling, Acrobaleno, etc. What is supernatural or fantasy about it?

 

[chrisbj]

Can someone translate this please...
ブランチに出てたんですよ！ジャンプ流の表紙も発表されて…！
Google and bing translator aren't really making it all that understandable for me.....