Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2015-2016] - Discussion and TOC Talk

Status
Not open for further replies.

dark123

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2012
Messages
1,298
Reaction score
394
Age
35
Gender
Male
Country
Poland
I don't get viz. Gintama and Reborn both sold something at least and got dropped, but Toriko has never appeared in a year end list where the cut off was in the hundreds and is still getting releases after 30+ volumes
Because Toriko is pure hype with most amazing world in history of manga. It lacks only detailed characters development. Mitsutoshi is best in world build but not in character development. If he could do both Toriko would be absolute masterpiece.
 

CallMeTsuyu

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
May 1, 2015
Messages
159
Reaction score
203
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Because Toriko is pure hype with most amazing world in history of manga. It lacks only detailed characters development. Mitsutoshi is best in world build but not in character development. If he could do both Toriko would be absolute masterpiece.
Your personal opinion on the quality of the manga is irrelevant to the point being made. Listen, I enjoy Toriko, too-- not as much I did before the timeskip; For me personally, the quality of the series dipped after the timeskip and even more so after the Pair arc, but I digress. The point is, at least in the West, Toriko does not appear to be selling, so it's kind of confounding as to why localization hasn't been discontinued yet. I don't know how many units they put out at a time, but I can't imagine they're selling enough to break even with that series. Let's not delude ourselves here. Money talks, especially when we're talking about business economics, and it isn't speaking well of Toriko as far Viz localization is concerned. Not to mention the declining sales in Japan, but that's another topic in and of itself.
 

SharkBait

MH Senpai
伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
14,082
Reaction score
6,940
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Your personal opinion on the quality of the manga is irrelevant to the point being made. Listen, I enjoy Toriko, too-- not as much I did before the timeskip; For me personally, the quality of the series dipped after the timeskip and even more so after the Pair arc, but I digress. The point is, at least in the West, Toriko does not appear to be selling, so it's kind of confounding as to why localization hasn't been discontinued yet. I don't know how many units they put out at a time, but I can't imagine they're selling enough to break even with that series. Let's not delude ourselves here. Money talks, especially when we're talking about business economics, and it isn't speaking well of Toriko as far Viz localization is concerned. Not to mention the declining sales in Japan, but that's another topic in and of itself.
I dont understand how you can say that "toriko does not appear to be selling" when it appears the opposite would be true. If it wasn't "selling" then they would have dropped it. Since they havent dropped it we can only assume that it is selling enough to still be viable for Viz to keep releasing it (unlike Reborn, Gintama, etc).
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I mean I just dont think you release a manga for 35 volumes if it isnt selling enough.
 

CallMeTsuyu

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
May 1, 2015
Messages
159
Reaction score
203
Gender
Male
Country
United States
I dont understand how you can say that "toriko does not appear to be selling" when it appears the opposite would be true. If it wasn't "selling" then they would have dropped it. Since they havent dropped it we can only assume that it is selling enough to still be viable for Viz to keep releasing it (unlike Reborn, Gintama, etc).
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I mean I just dont think you release a manga for 35 volumes if it isnt selling enough.
But that's exactly why I said that. Because I'm not really sure how well Toriko is selling. What I do know is it's not selling enough to chart with any given volume.
Toriko - no volume has ever made an appearance
Also, I looked through each individual US Manga Print Ranking chart, starting with 2010 when Toriko began localization, to reaffirm if the above quote is true. There was not a single volume from that series to be seen; granted, each chart topped off at 200-400 individual volumes, the lowest ranking sales ranging from 2500-3400 units. For all I know, Toriko could be within top 500, though this wouldn't say much for its sales. Not sure what qualifies as breaking even for manga in the US, but being given an entire year and not selling more than 2000+ volumes does not sound that promising, in my humble opinion.
 
Last edited:

Unok

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
703
Reaction score
2,915
Gender
Male
Country
Bulgaria
I don't get viz. Gintama and Reborn both sold something at least and got dropped, but Toriko has never appeared in a year end list where the cut off was in the hundreds and is still getting releases after 30+ volumes
Reborn and Gintama also disappeared from the charts after the first 1-4 or so vols. And you obviously fail to understand something: If Toriko is still being released it means it sells enough for each volume. While obviously later Reborn and Gintama volume sales dropped so much, that it wasn't worth to keep releasing the series. So those series, being able to chart at the beginning, doesn't mean they were generating more money in a longer run.
 

TyVip

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Aug 30, 2015
Messages
2,721
Reaction score
2,814
Gender
Male
Country
Mariejoa
I would think Viz is trying to promote manga in the recent years . MY Hero Academia got green light after 1 year in serialization ( first English volume was release 8/4/2015). World Trigger got green light after 1 and a half year in serialization ( first English volume was release 10/7/2014) , while other manga took 2 years or even 3 years ( Food War 8/5/2014 ) (Toriko in 2010) ( Haikyuu 2016) .

I think Toriko hasn't got axed by Viz was because of the similarity with Dragonball. There aren't that many series in Jump that they could translate for American to like .
PSI ( Japanese joke) ,
Isobe Monogatri (will flop in the states) ,
Kochikame ( lengthy) ,
Summoner kun and Mononofu ( new series) . The reason they published 3 volumes of Gakkyu Hotel: School Judgement was because of Takashi Obata
Seiju wo pin ( new series)

I think of it this way

Nisekoi is a replacement for Rosario Vampire ,
My Hero Academia is a replacement for Naruto, and a battle shounen
Black Clover is a battle shounen
Toriko is a replacement for Dragonball to an extent~
Food War is somewhat similar to Bakuman to an extent~

Just my speculation by the way. I do my part of supporting the English industry on some of my favorite series .
 

Unok

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
703
Reaction score
2,915
Gender
Male
Country
Bulgaria
More like, due to the english Weekly Shonen Jump, they generate better feedback and can predict faster what may be good for them and what not. That's why they licensed MHA and WT faster.

And no matter how "similar" Toriko is to DB for the english audience. I can't imagine Viz keeping it, while they lose money, just so that they have "similar" title.
 

SharkBait

MH Senpai
伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
14,082
Reaction score
6,940
Gender
Male
Country
United States
I dont think they have feelings like that for manga. If Toriko was doing bad they would end it. They have Shonen Sunday they could get for manga, Young Jump is an option too if they were worried for Toriko's slack, additionally, Kurobas shows they arent afraid to go into the backlog of jump and release series.
 

WesKR

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
168
Reaction score
105
Gender
Hidden
Country
United States
Toriko is far from being the most obscure thing being released. I imagine each localization deal is different, Toriko's author might not even care about the chump change he gets from Viz via royalties and it's just a cheap series to license. Even if the profit is low, it's still revenue, if you can make money from it then why stop? Yen Press, Seven Seas and even Dark Horse make money by selling obscure manga, sell enough titles and you'll make good money, even if they sell poorly individually.
 

Ecchi Boy

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
May 31, 2011
Messages
1,036
Reaction score
1,307
Age
39
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Toriko is far from being the most obscure thing being released. I imagine each localization deal is different, Toriko's author might not even care about the chump change he gets from Viz via royalties and it's just a cheap series to license. Even if the profit is low, it's still revenue, if you can make money from it then why stop? Yen Press, Seven Seas and even Dark Horse make money by selling obscure manga, sell enough titles and you'll make good money, even if they sell poorly individually.
This, Talk about Toriko Failing when it hits 100,000 in japan And recently Toriko has slight increase in sales I am not worrying about it I just want the mangaka not to rush the manga.
 

vampire killer

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
802
Reaction score
465
Gender
Male
Country
Bulgaria
Men sales in USA are pathetic. No wonder japan dosent care about it.
 

Caiops

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
803
Reaction score
519
Gender
Male
Country
Brazil
They are taking too long to announce Hinomaru Zumou anime, maybe they are waiting to Boku no Hero anime to begin.

But i just want the announcement ;-; i need Hinomaru Zumou by Production I.G
 

ShenGao

MH Senpai
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
4,503
Reaction score
6,604
Country
Germany
They are taking too long to announce Hinomaru Zumou anime, maybe they are waiting to Boku no Hero anime to begin.

But i just want the announcement ;-; i need Hinomaru Zumou by Production I.G
I don't think it will get an anime. The sales are terrible and even an anime wouldn't change anything. It's gonna share a fate like Saiki Kusuo no Sainan.
 

SharkBait

MH Senpai
伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
14,082
Reaction score
6,940
Gender
Male
Country
United States
They are taking too long to announce Hinomaru Zumou anime, maybe they are waiting to Boku no Hero anime to begin.

But i just want the announcement ;-; i need Hinomaru Zumou by Production I.G
I think getting an anime early in a series life is rarer than waiting. How long did it take for kurobas to be animated?
 

Caiops

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
803
Reaction score
519
Gender
Male
Country
Brazil
I don't think it will get an anime. The sales are terrible and even an anime wouldn't change anything. It's gonna share a fate like Saiki Kusuo no Sainan.
Hahhaha, no. To begin with, Shueisha its really advertising Hinomaru Zumou, all the posters on sumou matches, crossover with Kurobas, show that they want it to be big.(with the female audience at least).

And another thing, the sales before the anime doesn't matter, Kekkai Sensen only about 20-25k per volume before the volume, and now its selling about 150k-200k per volume, animes are meant to advertise and make the manga sell better, Jump aren't going to let it pass with a manga who is popular with the magazine audience, and who can be a anime really popular with the female audience like Kurobas, Yowapeda, Haikyuu, Daiya no Ace..
 

SharkBait

MH Senpai
伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
14,082
Reaction score
6,940
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Hahhaha, no. To begin with, Shueisha its really advertising Hinomaru Zumou, all the posters on sumou matches, crossover with Kurobas, show that they want it to be big.(with the female audience at least).

And another thing, the sales before the anime doesn't matter, Kekkai Sensen only about 20-25k per volume before the volume, and now its selling about 150k-200k per volume, animes are meant to advertise and make the manga sell better, Jump aren't going to let it pass with a manga who is popular with the magazine audience, and who can be a anime really popular with the female audience like Kurobas, Yowapeda, Haikyuu, Daiya no Ace..
Both yowapeda and ace of diamond anime started hundreds of chapters into those series lives though.
 

ShenGao

MH Senpai
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
4,503
Reaction score
6,604
Country
Germany
...and who can be a anime really popular with the female audience like Kurobas, Yowapeda, Haikyuu, Daiya no Ace..
Do you really think that? I like HinoZumo, but it isn't something Fujos would buy. They want cute looking boys with perfect hair, not some group of muscular men half naked and with scars on their bodies fighting against each other.
 

Caiops

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
803
Reaction score
519
Gender
Male
Country
Brazil
Do you really think that? I like HinoZumo, but it isn't something Fujos would buy. They want cute looking boys with perfect hair, not some group of muscular men half naked and with scars on their bodies fighting against each other.
The fujoshi audience don't care about the appearance, and even if they care, Zumou has some cute character designs, even with all the muscles.

Osomatsu-san was something that noboby,NOBODY would think that would be popular with fujoshis... And now its a massive sucess, with a lot of yaoi doujins, Yowapeda its the same thing, i don't think anyone think the characters are beautiful, but they are popular with the female audience like Osomatsu-san, but what the female audience want is the relationship between the characters.

One of the most popular characters(if not the one most pupular) of Gundam Tekketsu its the muscular guy of the group, so i can see Hinomaru getting a lot of doujins when the anime air
 

ShenGao

MH Senpai
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
4,503
Reaction score
6,604
Country
Germany
The fujoshi audience don't care about the appearance, and even if they care, Zumou has some cute character designs, even with all the muscles.

Osomatsu-san was something that noboby,NOBODY would think that would be popular with fujoshis... And now its a massive sucess, with a lot of yaoi doujins, Yowapeda its the same thing, i don't think anyone think the characters are beautiful, but they are popular with the female audience like Osomatsu-san, but what the female audience want is the relationship between the characters.

One of the most popular characters(if not the one most pupular) of Gundam Tekketsu its the muscular guy of the group, so i can see Hinomaru getting a lot of doujins when the anime air
I'll try to make it a bit better to see why i think HinoZumo won't get an anime.

These are the numbers of HinoZumo's sales:
Volume 5: 20,959 Source
Volume 6: 21,084 Source
Volume 7: 27,070 Source
These are just the numbers for their first week, because after that they didn't even make the cut to the Top 50 anymore.

For comparison Haikyuu's sale numbers:
Volume 1: 31,428 Source
Volume 2: 81,413 Source
Volume 3: 123,180 Source

HinoZumo only survives because of a dedicated fanbase which gives it steady rankings. But what happens when that fanbase dies out? And is it worth it to produce an anime for less than 30000 people?
At this point it would make more sense to produce an anime for Black Clover in the next 1 or 2 years, to boost it's sales.
 

vampire killer

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
802
Reaction score
465
Gender
Male
Country
Bulgaria
nah, jump will cancel toriko first.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top