Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Firepower]

The power gap between Acnologia and the Spriggan is simply far too great. Acnologia isn't portrayed as something that a single mage can stand up against. He's being portrayed as an entire faction of his own in the war between Ishgar and Alvarez. We know from Rogue's future that Acnologia eventually won, so power ranking for Acnologia really looks like this:

Acnologia > Alvarez > Ishgar

If Acnologia showed up in his dragon form, it wouldn't matter if Dimaria could stop time. She would exhaust herself trying to attack him before he is defeated.

In Future Rogue's time, there was never a war because ft died during the gmg arc. So they never made it beyond that. Evergreen managed to turn all the girls to stone including Erza, who was much stronger than she was. If Kyoka can take all 5 senses away that would help a lot in any fight.

Acnologia doesn't have just dsm, as that alone doesn't give eternal youth, or soul stealing abilities. He's got more than that up his sleeve. Assuming August has a lot of bs abilities also, yet was at the mercy of Acnologia, that proves these spells have no effect on him. August acknowledged that only Zeref can beat Acno if he gets Mavis's body. Why I mentioned all of this is because of how these abilities make things imo unfair and boring. Who wants to see people completely still while someone kills them? There's no fun in that. All the training, getting faster, stronger, tougher, improved magic power, and unable to do anything. It's just an opinion so I won't argue if others think these hax are legit.

 

[Axiomus]

In Future Rogue's time, there was never a war because ft died during the gmg arc. So they never made it beyond that. Evergreen managed to turn all the girls to stone including Erza, who was much stronger than she was. If Kyoka can take all 5 senses away that would help a lot in any fight.

Acnologia doesn't have just dsm, as that alone doesn't give eternal youth, or soul stealing abilities. He's got more than that up his sleeve. Assuming August has a lot of bs abilities also, yet was at the mercy of Acnologia, that proves these spells have no effect on him. August acknowledged that only Zeref can beat Acno if he gets Mavis's body. Why I mentioned all of this is because of how these abilities make things imo unfair and boring. Who wants to see people completely still while someone kills them? There's no fun in that. All the training, getting faster, stronger, tougher, improved magic power, and unable to do anything. It's just an opinion so I won't argue if others think these hax are legit.

Rogue's timeline didn't have the dragons come through. That was Lucy's timeline. Rogue's timeline had Acnologia ruling the world 7 years in the future, which means that Alvarez and Ishgar would have been destroyed regardless. Rogue's timeline had Gray killing Frosche one year after GMG/Tartarus arc, remember?

Acnologia can turn into a dragon with dragon slayer magic, and dragons live for a long time. That's why he has his youth. I don't think Acnologia uses another type of magic. I do think that the dragon souls are the source of his power though.

 

[Arjuna]

If Dimaria could have stopped Time and Brandish could have Shrunken Acnologia Then Zeref would have tried This.Then This Means This Will Not Work.

 

[Firepower]

Rogue's timeline didn't have the dragons come through. That was Lucy's timeline. Rogue's timeline had Acnologia ruling the world 7 years in the future, which means that Alvarez and Ishgar would have been destroyed regardless. Rogue's timeline had Gray killing Frosche one year after GMG/Tartarus arc, remember?

Acnologia can turn into a dragon with dragon slayer magic, and dragons live for a long time. That's why he has his youth. I don't think Acnologia uses another type of magic. I do think that the dragon souls are the source of his power though.

No, I don't remember, but thanks for clearing that up. Did Future Rogue say Acnologia beat Zeref and Alvarez empire? Or are you assuming that for Acnologia to have ruled the world he had to have defeated Zeref?

Yes dragons live hundreds of years, but stealing souls is part of his dsm? Whether he has other powers or not cannot be answered. In any case if Acnologia only has dsm, does having unmeasurable power prevent time magic from taking effect on him? Because I don't remeber any rules stating having unmatched power means they have any kind of control of time. Sure being strong can make attacks of others useless and seem weak, but what of these magic hacks? Does this mean Mest cannot alter his memory? And don't take what I said seriously about Mest being a ds. A lot of what I said was out of sarcasm, because of how Dimaria's magic seems unbeatable unless one knows time magic also, including when I asked if magic hacks have any effect on Acnologia. At least for now we don't know if there is a weakness to these hacks or not. The point of why I mentioned all this is that these hacks suck. Until we know the conditions of it to work, it's makes things complicated. You don't think Acnologia has any other magic ability. Are you saying having lots of power keeps him immune to hacks?

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 3, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 3, 2016 ---

If Dimaria could have stopped Time and Brandish could have Shrunken Acnologia Then Zeref would have tried This.Then This Means This Will Not Work.

Fairy law wouldn't kill Acno either. It's too bad the conditions needed to make such spells work isn't explained.

 

[Axiomus]

No, I don't remember, but thanks for clearing that up. Did Future Rogue say Acnologia beat Zeref and Alvarez empire? Or are you assuming that for Acnologia to have ruled the world he had to have defeated Zeref?

Yes dragons live hundreds of years, but stealing souls is part of his dsm? Whether he has other powers or not cannot be answered. In any case if Acnologia only has dsm, does having unmeasurable power prevent time magic from taking effect on him? Because I don't remeber any rules stating having unmatched power means they have any kind of control of time. Sure being strong can make attacks of others useless and seem weak, but what of these magic hacks? Does this mean Mest cannot alter his memory? And don't take what I said seriously about Mest being a ds. A lot of what I said was out of sarcasm, because of how Dimaria's magic seems unbeatable unless one knows time magic also, including when I asked if magic hacks have any effect on Acnologia. At least for now we don't know if there is a weakness to these hacks or not. The point of why I mentioned all this is that these hacks suck. Until we know the conditions of it to work, it's makes things complicated. You don't think Acnologia has any other magic ability. Are you saying having lots of power keeps him immune to hacks?

Grandeeney said Acnologia used a type of dragon slayer magic to steal the souls.

I'm not sure if having a high amount of power will prevent time magic from working on Acnologia, but it doesn't matter. The difference between Acnologia and Dimaria is too large. Even if Dimaria froze Acnologia in time, she doesn't have enough power to take him out. Once Dimaria runs out of power, time will run again normally. So whether or not Acnologia is immune to age seal is largely irrelevant.

 

[Firepower]

Grandeeney said Acnologia used a type of dragon slayer magic to steal the souls.

I'm not sure if having a high amount of power will prevent time magic from working on Acnologia, but it doesn't matter. The difference between Acnologia and Dimaria is too large. Even if Dimaria froze Acnologia in time, she doesn't have enough power to take him out. Once Dimaria runs out of power, time will run again normally. So whether or not Acnologia is immune to age seal is largely irrelevant.

Ok that answers that question about soul stealing. If you understood the point of my original comment it was to say THESE HACKS ARE RUINING IT FOR ME. Not because I actually thought any of these mages with bs abilities could solo Acnologia. Freezing time or turning Acnologia to stone won't happen. These questions I asked were not to say she has a chance, but that these bs abilities are not making sense to me that's why I mentioned Acno in the first place. It's a no brainer Acnologia is the winner. You're missed the point of why I said all that. Did you think I was serious when I said Mest could teleport behind Acnologia and alter his memory to think he's had a life worse than Itachi's, causing Acno to commit suicide? Just like what I told Crimson ice, you need to get the gist of what Iis being said. Not just the first sentence. It was my way of expressing that these abilities are not making sense because stupid tricks don't work on Acno, but are making it look as if they could, because there were no explanation as to the limits of these spells. It would be like a Mage that has great magic power, but the magic that he or she has is turning anything to fish, thereby killing them in seconds because fish suffocate when out of water, and no one is having an underwater fight. That's why I said these abilities are boring. No one wants to see others chopped up without even putting up a fight. I also said I won't argue if others think these bs abilities are legit. In any case Ultear is giving the sky sisters a chance to fight.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 4, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 3, 2016 ---

Now that I think about it, Zeref can freeze time also. He did it so that he could talk to Natsu. Just goes to show how dangerous Zeref is, but he never used it to fight due to how he leaves himself open hoping to be killed.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 4, 2016 ---

Grandeeney said Acnologia used a type of dragon slayer magic to steal the souls.

I'm not sure if having a high amount of power will prevent time magic from working on Acnologia, but it doesn't matter. The difference between Acnologia and Dimaria is too large. Even if Dimaria froze Acnologia in time, she doesn't have enough power to take him out. Once Dimaria runs out of power, time will run again normally. So whether or not Acnologia is immune to age seal is largely irrelevant.

You are right these abilities won't stop Acno. But these spells need to be explained. If I recall Zeref taught Mavis fairy law, which she didn't master and caused her to have the same contradictory curse. That spell can't kill Zeref and isn't unstoppable. If Zeref saw himself as an enemy he'd have used it on himself. So it's clear. Magic hacks have weaknesses but need explanation. Thanks

 

[Shasha23]

They are not equal in status, Makarov when describing the 12 he was referring to their power or he wouldn't of said Augst was on another level, he doesn't have more influence than the 12 because they all hold the same title, he was CLEARLY referring to strength. Not to mention:
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/443/26

"They are 12 more wizards of this POWER"
AGAIN we have direct statement that put most of the 12 ON THE SAME LEVEL, at this point you're just saying 'no they're not'.

Makarov doesn't know their power so can we take anything he said about the 12 seriously?
Makarov also claimed no one in FT can beat a springgan but we have already seen that happen!

Again you are just reading and stating what you see, try and understand the reason for Brandi's words, there are "12 others of the same power", she meant it that there are 12 of them with the same springgan power not that there were 12 people with the same amount of MP as her since that would be a lie as August is way more powerful than Brandish.

As I have stated character statement cant be used as prove in a vs thread as most of the time those statements are biased and 100% of the time they are not true. I mean if you want to take Makarov's and Brandi's words as absolute law then Erza and Laxus would have lost vs the springgan.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Makarov doesn't know their power so can we take anything he said about the 12 seriously?
Makarov also claimed no one in FT can beat a springgan but we have already seen that happen!

Again you are just reading and stating what you see, try and understand the reason for Brandi's words, there are "12 others of the same power", she meant it that there are 12 of them with the same springgan power not that there were 12 people with the same amount of MP as her since that would be a lie as August is way more powerful than Brandish.

As I have stated character statement cant be used as prove in a vs thread as most of the time those statements are biased and 100% of the time they are not true. I mean if you want to take Makarov's and Brandi's words as absolute law then Erza and Laxus would have lost vs the springgan.

Makarov knew their abilities and compared to his guild from a year ago and knew they stood no chance, Makarov has displayed knowledge on the twelve. Makaraov claimed Erza couldn't beat Ajeel one on one which she couldn't

She said they are 12 people as strong as she is look at the context of the situation. You are completely ignoring the context of the situation, she said as strong as her, August is at least as strong as her and the only reason people put Aguust on such a level is because of the statement from MAKAROV.


Character statements can be used in the thread if they haven't been contradicted. While the statements used are not biased, why would Makarov talk against his own guild? Why would Brandish say her peers were as strong as her if she was possibly way strong than some of them? Both Brandish and Mkaraov's words don't show signs of bias. Erza would of lost against Ajeel one on one, while Makarov claimed they couldn't beat a Spirggan before he had even seen Laxus after the year gap. Plus he was most likely referring to the group the picked him up anyways.

 

[iDooom]

I still think it's kind of pointless to argue about Alvarez power levels until we have more feats. So I think it's best to clarify the power levels of Tartaros arc. Adding up HP and all the stats on the Tartaros character cards we get:

Mard Geer: 40400
Kyoka: 16400
Silver: 14900
Torafuza: 9200
Tempesta: 8800
Seilah: 8400
Keyes: 7700
Ezel: 7300
Jackal: 6300
Franmalth: 5700
Lamy: 2000

This doesn't show everything, but it does give a reasonable numerical picture of their strength taking into account all stats. Torafuza and Tempesta were depicted as close in strength, and the stats reflect this (only 400 difference). Seilah is also 400 below Tempesta, so I'd put all three of them on the same tier. Kyoka was the leader and the strongest of the 9DG (between 1.5 and 2 times as strong as Tora/Temp). Silver was slightly weaker than Kyoka (without slayer advantage) and so gave Gray a hard fight while holding back. Keyes, Ezel, and Jackal were the weakest of the 9DG. The only one that doesn't seem very accurate is Franmalth, perhaps because it doesn't take into account Hades soul.

Ordering into tiers:

Tier 0: Mard Geer
Tier 1: Kyoka, Silver
Tier 2: Tora, Temp, Seilah
Tier 3: Keyes, Ezel, Jackal
Tier 4: Lamy

Then from feats it's pretty simple to rank the core members of FT:

Tier 1: Laxus, Erza (1.5-2x LFD Natsu)
Tier 2: Natsu/Gray/Gajeel/Mira
Tier 3: Lucy, Juvia, Wendy

This largely agrees with feats and portrayal from GMG, Tenrou, and earlier arcs. Since this ordering has remained constant through the series, I don't believe Alvarez arc will be much different.

 

[Shasha23]

Makarov knew their abilities and compared to his guild from a year ago and knew they stood no chance, Makarov has displayed knowledge on the twelve. Makaraov claimed Erza couldn't beat Ajeel one on one which she couldn't.

Its not hard hearing that someone uses sand magic and the other uses ice magic, he could have been told that by Yajeel for all we know.
Makarov never claimed Erza couldn't beat Ajeel, Makarov said no one in FT can beat a springgan and Erza with help did, Laxus took out Wahl while he was at a disadvantage.

She said they are 12 people as strong as she is look at the context of the situation. You are completely ignoring the context of the situation, she said as strong as her, August is at least as strong as her and the only reason people put Aguust on such a level is because of the statement from MAKAROV.

Lets clear something up, Brandish never said there are 12 just as strong as her, she said in the Alvares Empire there were 12 other like her 12 others of her calibre, she never talked about fighting power or anything like that.

Character statements can be used in the thread if they haven't been contradicted. While the statements used are not biased, why would Makarov talk against his own guild? Why would Brandish say her peers were as strong as her if she was possibly way strong than some of them? Both Brandish and Mkaraov's words don't show signs of bias. Erza would of lost against Ajeel one on one, while Makarov claimed they couldn't beat a Spirggan before he had even seen Laxus after the year gap. Plus he was most likely referring to the group the picked him up anyways.

But the character statement you are using have already been contradicted though!!!!!!
Makarov was and still is afraid of going against Alvares and became more afraid when he found out it was Zeref they would have to fight, that is why he didn't was to fight to begin with. Brandish never said anything about strength, the translation you were reading has you confused.
Yes Erza would have lost but Makarov never said anything about 1 on 1 fights, he said they would lose if they fight them period, and again that turned out to be BS since Laxus would have killed Ajeel if not for August and we have already seen Laxus beat a springgan and the power he has shown can lead one to believe he can easily beat a some of the springgan relatively easily since he is at full strength.
Even if he was referring to the group that picked him up Natsu at that point was clearly stronger than Ajeel.

Point is Makarov's statements so far have been false and nothing he has said can be used to prove a thing since they were incorrect and biased

 

[Holt]

Point is Makarov's statements so far have been false and nothing he has said can be used to prove a thing since they were incorrect and biased

How exactly has it been false? Makarov stated that FT going against the Spriggans would've been suicidal which is exactly right. Did you forget that the spriggans are currently fighting against Ishgar and not just FT? Ok, let's reevaluate the battles. Ajeel got taken out by Erza and Bisca who fired Jupiter so let's give that to FT. Then there's Wahl who fell to Laxus, again an FT win. Then there's Dimaria who made short work of Wendy. It took Sherria and Ultear in addition for Dimaria to eventually be defeated. If not for Ultear, both of them would've been taken out. Also, consider the state of Erza and Laxus. Those are 2 of Fairy Tail's finest but at the end of battle, they were largely injured. Now we have Jellal, Erza and kagura going to face neinhart. We have Serena stomping the gods of ishgar before getting taken out by Acnologia. And let's not forget Ichiya helping to defeat Wahl's proxy and using his ship to block an attack from Wahl. Without all these third parties, you'd have only Ajeel and Wahl down while Erza and Laxus would be largely incapacitated and unable to do much in other battles. Furthermore, they have no one to counter Dimaria's time magic. So the spriggans have proved themselves. The story would've been very different if it was just FT against the spriggans which was what Makarov was worried about.

 

[reesestl]

Thats a great point. Makarov was expecting FT vs Spriggans the whole time. But still, why does Mavis think they have very slim chance of winning?

 

[Shasha23]

How exactly has it been false? Makarov stated that FT going against the Spriggans would've been suicidal which is exactly right. Did you forget that the spriggans are currently fighting against Ishgar and not just FT? Ok, let's reevaluate the battles. Ajeel got taken out by Erza and Bisca who fired Jupiter so let's give that to FT. Then there's Wahl who fell to Laxus, again an FT win. Then there's Dimaria who made short work of Wendy. It took Sherria and Ultear in addition for Dimaria to eventually be defeated. If not for Ultear, both of them would've been taken out. Also, consider the state of Erza and Laxus. Those are 2 of Fairy Tail's finest but at the end of battle, they were largely injured. Now we have Jellal, Erza and kagura going to face neinhart. We have Serena stomping the gods of ishgar before getting taken out by Acnologia. And let's not forget Ichiya helping to defeat Wahl's proxy and using his ship to block an attack from Wahl. Without all these third parties, you'd have only Ajeel and Wahl down while Erza and Laxus would be largely incapacitated and unable to do much in other battles. Furthermore, they have no one to counter Dimaria's time magic. So the spriggans have proved themselves. The story would've been very different if it was just FT against the spriggans which was what Makarov was worried about.

Makarov hasn't been thinking straight the whole time because he is afraid, if FT had asked for help of cause everyone would have come to help them out, and you are just focus too much on current events and not taking my whole posts into account, the reason why I have stated Makarov has made false statements all this time starts way back when he stated Natsu and the rest couldn't beat Ajeel or statements claiming FT cant beat a springgan

 

[Holt]

Makarov hasn't been thinking straight the whole time because he is afraid, if FT had asked for help of cause everyone would have come to help them out, and you are just focus too much on current events and not taking my whole posts into account, the reason why I have stated Makarov has made false statements all this time starts way back when he stated Natsu and the rest couldn't beat Ajeel or statements claiming FT cant beat a springgan

Well technically he wasn't wrong. He was gauging them based on the last time he saw them (which would be tartaros) and FT then weren't a match for the spriggans in anyway. They're barely defeating them even now. He wasn't aware of their growth since he was away.

 

[Brandish μ]

Makarov is probably gauging magic power when he's talking about the Spriggans being so strong. It's been a major sticking point when introducing and hyping the Spriggan - that is their MP is on a high level. I've got no doubt that the shields' MP is above anyone in Team Natsu - and maybe even Laxus. Makarov has little to no knowledge about Spriggan magic/abilities nor the improvement within the guild.

 

[Shasha23]

Well technically he wasn't wrong. He was gauging them based on the last time he saw them (which would be tartaros) and FT then weren't a match for the spriggans in anyway. They're barely defeating them even now. He wasn't aware of their growth since he was away.

Now the problem with all this was that someone was using Makarov's words as upsolute law in the vs. threads when manga feats contradict the very statements.

Makarov is probably gauging magic power when he's talking about the Spriggans being so strong. It's been a major sticking point when introducing and hyping the Spriggan - that is their MP is on a high level. I've got no doubt that the shields' MP is above anyone in Team Natsu - and maybe even Laxus. Makarov has little to no knowledge about Spriggan magic/abilities nor the improvement within the guild.

Sure thing you are right that Makarov go scared because of maybe 1 or 3 springgans he personally met, but even so he should have realise the moments he saw team Natsu fight Ajeel that there was nothing to fear but the fear of fighting Zeref was too much for him I guess.
Also I will have to disagree with you on the part that the springgan have higher MP than team Natsu, Natsu when releasing his MP alone is able to melt a whole stadium and have Lucy crap her pants because of how high and dangerous feeling the MP gave off, and we already saw that Laxus can 1HKO a springgan, probably only 3 - 4 are stronger than Laxus and Natsu but the rest..........meh they are just weak but have annoying abilities that render opponents helpless even if said opponent is stronger.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Give your rankings and explanations if any or your thoughts of who is greater than who. Since Fairy Tail disbanded and a year time skip we don't know how strong fairy tail mages have become; if some have closed the gap or even surpassed others. We are all confused and every week argue about who is stronger and can beat the spriggan.

First off there is limited battle information on the spriggan and wizard saints. Plus two spriggan are still unknown. What we do know is Acnologia is miles and leagues ahead of everyone. Zeref is second strongest.

To me the wizard saints are overrated. Jura was #5 and became #4 when Serena left. After the seven year time skip and powering up he lost to Laxus at the gmg. Obviously when Laxus was kicked out of Fairy Tail he wasn't just playing around, and even gave Natsu his power to beat Hades. That's the same Laxus that whooped Jura. Being younger, seven years behind also, Laxus was stronger than Jura. Since the gmg, especially after the one year time skip, all Fairy Tail mages have gotten substantially stronger.

Makarov has monstrous strength, but in the Alvarez arc has been surpassed and even somewhat irrelevant. Believing Ajeel would kill them all, not thinking about how much training his guild put in, Makarov was gonna sacrifice himself to save them. Laxus blew up Ajeel's attack. Some are saying Ajeel would have died if August didn't shield him. But Ajeel told August he wouldn't have died from an attack like that. The attack did startle and surprise Ajeel though. So that proves nothing between Ajeel and Laxus.

Serena and the ws have never fought and instead fought each other which proves nothing either. August wanted to enjoy himself and watch Serena put on a show, telling Kacob there's no need to help. August just wanted to watch. No matter how we try and read into it, we gain no facts. Ajeel made a sand wave taller and wider than mountains. Laxus blows it up with a ball of lightning big enough to reach the clouds. Natsu destroys Ikusa Tsunagi with a huge fire dragon king attack. I'm unsure if he used Igneel's power for that. He did say he could only use it one so it might not have been Igneel's power. But it could also mean with the power Igneel left, it will take all of it to fight Zeref, which is one time. By what anyone has demonstrated so far Ajeel and Laxus have the most destructive power.

Erza is so underrated. She fights Azuma, a tree guy, at a place surrounded by trees. Azuma uses the energy of the island to badly hurt Erza. When Erza used that energy against Azuma he couldn't withstand it. Against Kyoka, Erza was never losing and even had to fight Minerva in between her fight with Kyoka. Only to deal with a cheating magic which took all her senses away, and intensified her nerves to hurt more. What the heck is any mage supposed to do when all their senses are taken away? Why does she fight those with strange magic?

Top strongest
1 Acnologia
2 Zeref
3 Spriggan 12
4-7 Gildarts, Laxus, Erza, Jellal
8-10 Mira, Kagura, Bacchus
11-13 Natsu, Gajeel, Gray
14-15 Sting, Rogue

I'd rank the spriggan individually but there's no way I can or want to. I'd like to say Brandish is the weakest, but if she shrinks everyone including their attacks anything can happen. I'm not sure and don't remember if she can enlarge too. I'd also like to say I doubt the spriggan are near Zeref's power that if all 12 fought him at once, all 12 would lose. Otherwise Zeref would be dead which is what he wants.

This may be another case of me not reading your whole post but Bacchus above, Natsu, Gray and Gajeel...Above Sting, the guy who one shotted him?



EDIT:
Just saw the date with post was made.....Nevermind

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 8, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 8, 2016 ---

Its not hard hearing that someone uses sand magic and the other uses ice magic, he could have been told that by Yajeel for all we know.
Makarov never claimed Erza couldn't beat Ajeel, Makarov said no one in FT can beat a springgan and Erza with help did, Laxus took out Wahl while he was at a disadvantage.

This is hilarious, you think Makarov who hear rumors of the 12 being strog and about their magic and then lose all hope in his guild when it comes to beating them? That is ridiculous to say the least, evidence points towards Makarov have seeing them or felt their magic power. As for Erza Makarov explicitly say she can't win on HER OWN.
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/455/4

Lets clear something up, Brandish never said there are 12 just as strong as her, she said in the Alvares Empire there were 12 other like her 12 others of her calibre, she never talked about fighting power or anything like that.

She said OF THIS POWER, what else would she be talking about. Not to mention the context of the situation favors my argument, you are literally ignoring her she states power and you're completely ignoring the context.

But the character statement you are using have already been contradicted though!!!!!!

Makarov was and still is afraid of going against Alvares and became more afraid when he found out it was Zeref they would have to fight, that is why he didn't was to fight to begin with. Brandish never said anything about strength, the translation you were reading has you confused.

It hasn't though, Makarov was scared of Alverez because he knew how strong they were, while Brandish was referring to power, the context of the situation supports me as well. Unless you bring this correct translation you have no argument.

Yes Erza would have lost but Makarov never said anything about 1 on 1 fights, he said they would lose if they fight them period, and again that turned out to be BS since Laxus would have killed Ajeel if not for August and we have already seen Laxus beat a springgan and the power he has shown can lead one to believe he can easily beat a some of the springgan relatively easily since he is at full strength.
Even if he was referring to the group that picked him up Natsu at that point was clearly stronger than Ajeel.

The quote about it being one on one is what a posted above, Makarov say she couldn't beat him one on one, while if you're referring to when they ran away before Ajeel Makarov was saying they couldn't beat them before he sensed their Magic Power, even then he was talking to the group that were running away, not to Laxus, he came after. And no NATSU WASN'T CLEARLY STRONGER THAN AJEEL, Natsu countered one move and hit him once, that is not being clearly stronger

Point is Makarov's statements so far have been false and nothing he has said can be used to prove a thing since they were incorrect and biased

The only incorrect statement was referring to Ajeel and he escape squad, that was Makarov basing their power from when he last saw them.......One year ago.

 

[Firepower]

@Crimson Ice The date doesn't matter. You got it right. No confusion on your part. I'd still put Bacchus above the ds except Laxus even today. Both Sting and Ichiya did one shot Bacchus but both times he was caught off guard. It was a comedic fight against Ichiya when he gave an odd pose that got Bacchus to freeze thinking wtf. Didn't Mira get caught off guard in Tenrou when Elfman and Evergreen said they were getting married? Against Sting, Bacchus was taken out in one hit, but was caught off guard from that divebombing attack from behind. He did look back and saw sting looking surprised again.

Bacchus durability could possibly be in question. Although when Mira was caught off guard by Elfman and Evergreen she was also defeated. If Mira had her guard up she'd have taken them easily. Elfman was shaking putting all his strength in his punch, while she easily stopped his fist. Her durability is at a true s class level. So I'm guessing because Mira and Bacchus had similar situations, Bacchus should have real s class toughness also. He and Erza have encountered one another and fought many times and neither one has ever won. He is a martial artist, which was a good combination for the magic he uses. His magic is in his palms. Elfman is not as good as Natsu and the others, having good strength, but lacking speed and skills. I think if I remember it right Bacchus never got hit by Elfman once. Bacchus only lost because he exhausted himself. But he was smashing Elfman's shell so hard that his own armor was crumbling.

His personality shows he doesn't care the outcome, never serious and just wants to have fun. That may be his weakness. He's no s class for nothing. And until now no s class mage has disappointed. All have demonstrated great power and skills above everyone else. When Ichiya declared to all Ishgar guilds, everyone came to confront Alvarez. I've got a very strong feeling we'll get to see a serious Bacchus when it's a win or die fight. Would be great if his martial arts challenged Jacob's assassination style. Jacob doesn't seem to be the brightest of the spriggan, underestimating both Serena and Acnologia. So will it be Gildarts using the full extent of his crash magic on August? Did he hold back his full power on Tenrou due to ft members possibly getting caught in his attacks? I still believe Gildarts held back on Bluenote. Hopefully he shows up so we can find out.

I really wanted Jellal to fight August. It still might happen. Right now Kagura is trembling and sweating in extreme anger at the sight of Jellal. She will probably lose it and go for the kill. Then Neinhart comes out and reveals he is Simon. I think that's the reason why the three are bunched together. I doubt all three of them are needed to beat any one spriggan. There are only a few who can match the power of those three.

 

[Brandish μ]

Sure thing you are right that Makarov go scared because of maybe 1 or 3 springgans he personally met, but even so he should have realise the moments he saw team Natsu fight Ajeel that there was nothing to fear but the fear of fighting Zeref was too much for him I guess.
Also I will have to disagree with you on the part that the springgan have higher MP than team Natsu, Natsu when releasing his MP alone is able to melt a whole stadium and have Lucy crap her pants because of how high and dangerous feeling the MP gave off, and we already saw that Laxus can 1HKO a springgan, probably only 3 - 4 are stronger than Laxus and Natsu but the rest..........meh they are just weak but have annoying abilities that render opponents helpless even if said opponent is stronger.

Makarov may have over-reacted v Ajeel, particularly as Gray/Natsu stopped Ajeel's attacks. However he is just doing what he thought was best in the heat of the moment. His impression of a Spriggans' power hasn't been off the mark, but his impressions of FT members might be off the mark. I believe Makarov is being used to hype Spriggans or create drama just like in the GMG where you see him being impressed by Kagura and then saying Jura could match Gildarts. So with that in mind you're going to get him praise the enemy, while at the same time thinking it's impossible for a FT member to solo (with the exception of Laxus this is true).

I consider Natsu grabbing his arm (Igneel's power) as an indicator that someone of Spriggan level MP requires Igneel's power to defeat. From that I believe Sprirggan > Natsu MP wise. Natsu shivered in shock of Brandish' MP. In combat it's a different story, I think Natsu can fight on equal terms with the Spriggans that have fought (maybe not Serena due to fire resistance). Laxus' MP might be right up there. It doesn't really matter - he can beat spriggans that have fought. August is the only one I am giving the benefit of the doubt to defeat Laxus.

 

[Arjuna]

@Crimson Ice The date doesn't matter. You got it right. No confusion on your part. I'd still put Bacchus above the ds except Laxus even today. Both Sting and Ichiya did one shot Bacchus but both times he was caught off guard. It was a comedic fight against Ichiya when he gave an odd pose that got Bacchus to freeze thinking wtf. Didn't Mira get caught off guard in Tenrou when Elfman and Evergreen said they were getting married? Against Sting, Bacchus was taken out in one hit, but was caught off guard from that divebombing attack from behind. He did look back and saw sting looking surprised again.

Bacchus durability could possibly be in question. Although when Mira was caught off guard by Elfman and Evergreen she was also defeated. If Mira had her guard up she'd have taken them easily. Elfman was shaking putting all his strength in his punch, while she easily stopped his fist. Her durability is at a true s class level. So I'm guessing because Mira and Bacchus had similar situations, Bacchus should have real s class toughness also. He and Erza have encountered one another and fought many times and neither one has ever won. He is a martial artist, which was a good combination for the magic he uses. His magic is in his palms. Elfman is not as good as Natsu and the others, having good strength, but lacking speed and skills. I think if I remember it right Bacchus never got hit by Elfman once. Bacchus only lost because he exhausted himself. But he was smashing Elfman's shell so hard that his own armor was crumbling.

His personality shows he doesn't care the outcome, never serious and just wants to have fun. That may be his weakness. He's no s class for nothing. And until now no s class mage has disappointed. All have demonstrated great power and skills above everyone else. When Ichiya declared to all Ishgar guilds, everyone came to confront Alvarez. I've got a very strong feeling we'll get to see a serious Bacchus when it's a win or die fight. Would be great if his martial arts challenged Jacob's assassination style. Jacob doesn't seem to be the brightest of the spriggan, underestimating both Serena and Acnologia. So will it be Gildarts using the full extent of his crash magic on August? Did he hold back his full power on Tenrou due to ft members possibly getting caught in his attacks? I still believe Gildarts held back on Bluenote. Hopefully he shows up so we can find out.

I really wanted Jellal to fight August. It still might happen. Right now Kagura is trembling and sweating in extreme anger at the sight of Jellal. She will probably lose it and go for the kill. Then Neinhart comes out and reveals he is Simon. I think that's the reason why the three are bunched together. I doubt all three of them are needed to beat any one spriggan. There are only a few who can match the power of those three.

I Think You are overestimating Bacchus Here.Bacchus wouldn't stand a Chance against S Class Or S Class Level Mages of Fairytail like Juvia and even DF Wendy.Sure He was caught off guard But Should he be defeated by just one punch by Sting.I Will Give You One Example.Ajeel was distracted and Erza managed to land a Fatal Blow on Him.Still after That He nearly killed Erza.If Bacchus was that Strong and had Durability He Would not have been One Shotted by a Punch.If It had been White Dragon's Roar It could have been said.

Makarov may have over-reacted v Ajeel, particularly as Gray/Natsu stopped Ajeel's attacks. However he is just doing what he thought was best in the heat of the moment. His impression of a Spriggans' power hasn't been off the mark, but his impressions of FT members might be off the mark. I believe Makarov is being used to hype Spriggans or create drama just like in the GMG where you see him being impressed by Kagura and then saying Jura could match Gildarts. So with that in mind you're going to get him praise the enemy, while at the same time thinking it's impossible for a FT member to solo (with the exception of Laxus this is true).

I consider Natsu grabbing his arm (Igneel's power) as an indicator that someone of Spriggan level MP requires Igneel's power to defeat. From that I believe Sprirggan > Natsu MP wise. Natsu shivered in shock of Brandish' MP. In combat it's a different story, I think Natsu can fight on equal terms with the Spriggans that have fought (maybe not Serena due to fire resistance). Laxus' MP might be right up there. It doesn't really matter - he can beat spriggans that have fought. August is the only one I am giving the benefit of the doubt to defeat Laxus.

That Theory doesn't work Completely.Natsu's Hand didn't react To laxus.Now We know laxus was stronger than Ajeel or Wahl.My Personal Theory is That Zeref had Personally Trained The Spriggans and They have Some Residual amount of Zeref's Magic.That's Why Igneel's Power Reacted To Them.The Confrontation between Natsu and Ajeel was short.I Find No Panel where Natsu was afraid on seeing Brandish.He even wanted to Fight Brandish and Wiki states That Too.Team Natsu were escaping and I believe Natsu was holding back His Power.InThat Confrontation Natsu had clearly dominated Ajeel.He even burnt The Ant Pit and Ajeel Looked Shocked.