Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Brandish μ]

Considering that all the possible explanations that the manga has given were refuted, I think it is quite obvious that it was clearly PoF that saved the day. The only reason that people would look at this fight differently from Erza vs. Azuma is that it was their bias that was involved. Hiro Mashima purposely drew the scenes similar to each other, so it is up to us to determine whether both are legitimate or neither of them are. If we were to classify one as a result of Nakama Power, we cannot deny the other one either.

Let's say PoF is used, it's a legit power in FT. The technique itself didn't invent itself because of PoF, but it's possible that he used PoF to give him more power. I think he used raiko under his own power.

Erza's situation is different because Azuma attacked her using MP of FT guild and it decided to protect and suppory Erza. This is because feelings and magic have a connection.

Let's be real here. What makes us believe that the ability Wahl has is just particle nullification?

First of all, the attack he used specifically says that it cancels Magical Barrier Particles. It never said just "particles". In other words, either it is anti-ethernano particles or runes/scripts. But Jutsu Shiki is a form of magic so it contains ethernano, right? So if the anti-ethernano particles were to disappear, wouldn't that indicate that ethernano particles would still exist and vice versa? Really, the explanation is just not there.

Second of all, if Wahl can nullify all particles ranging from MBP to Rune Magic, what about the ethernano particles in the air? What about the ethernano particles in Laxus that make up his magical power? What about Wahl's own MP? That means everything would cease to exist... But conveniently, it only canceled out the MBP and Jutsu Shiki, so something doesn't add up. Which is why I concluded that the whole fight never made sense.

The CR translations have Wahl call it a "Particle Canceller". I'm making an assumption based on that and what it does when he uses it.

Even if Wahl can 'conveniently' target certain particles, then why would that be nonsense? It's a weapon or ability with a function. If its like an antibiotic it just selectively targets something that both MBP's and runes contain. That was roughly Laxus assumption, and it was proven.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Let's say PoF is used, it's a legit power in FT. The technique itself didn't invent itself because of PoF, but it's possible that he used PoF to give him more power. I think he used raiko under his own power.

Erza's situation is different because Azuma attacked her using MP of FT guild and it decided to protect and suppory Erza. This is because feelings and magic have a connection.

Well, I'm guessing you don't understand the real meaning and intention for Power of Friendship. The reason why Hiro Mashima created Fairy Tail was to portray a good moral or theme that will help people go through tough times in their lives. Just to quickly go over it, the idea of PoF was perfectly executed in Erza's "death" in the Tower of Heaven Arc. It's main purpose is to invoke feelings into the minds of the readers. Most fans ignore this because they use it to power up characters instead which is not what the author intended.

And no. There is no difference between Erza vs. Azuma and Laxus vs. Wahl. Erza defeated Azuma through a slash that was powered through the feelings of FT. Laxus defeated Wahl through an attack that was powered by the feelings of Yury. The only difference is that Erza's attack was not named while Laxus' attack was. Don't give me the excuse that Laxus' Red Lightning was stronger than regular lightning because I can say the same. Erza's final slash was stronger than any attacks she used previously on Azuma...

The CR translations have Wahl call it a "Particle Canceller". I'm making an assumption based on that and what it does when he uses it.

Even if Wahl can 'conveniently' target certain particles, then why would that be nonsense? It's a weapon or ability with a function. If its like an antibiotic it just selectively targets something that both MBP's and runes contain. That was Laxus assumption, and it was proven.

If you can post the Crunchyroll Version that states that, please do. Like I said, it would only support my argument. If it really cancels out all particles, what stops it from only canceling MBP and Jutsu Shiki?

Why would it be nonsense that Wahl can choose which particles he can cancel? Because it was directly stated in the manga by Laxus himself that if anybody could cancel Freed's Jutsu Shiki, it would have to be all or nothing.

Spoiler

Again, another contradictory feat. It doesn't matter how much we spin it, the outcome is inevitable.

 

[Brandish μ]

PoF is actually quite literal. The easiest example is Mavis converting the feelings of FT members into magic power to cast Fairy Sphere.

And no. There is no difference between Erza vs. Azuma and Laxus vs. Wahl. Erza defeated Azuma through a slash that was powered through the feelings of FT. Laxus defeated Wahl through an attack that was powered by the feelings of Yury. The only difference is that Erza's attack was not named while Laxus' attack was. Don't give me the excuse that Laxus' Red Lightning was stronger than regular lightning because I can say the same. Erza's final slash was stronger than any attacks she used previously on Azuma...

Let me just clarify - you're believing that a so-called dead person is empowering Laxus?

I can give you my opinion on Red Lightning, and I have as stated before. I'm not giving you an excuse - just an interpretation. And my view is consistent with the manga, doesn't mean I am right, but for now it's reasonable.

If you can post the Crunchyroll Version that states that, please do. Like I said, it would only support my argument. If it really cancels out all particles, what stops it from only canceling MBP and Jutsu Shiki?

Spoiler: Ch 473 particle canceller

Why would it be nonsense that Wahl can choose which particles he can cancel? Because it was directly stated in the manga by Laxus himself that if anybody could cancel Freed's Jutsu Shiki, it would have to be all or nothing.

Spoiler

Again, another contradictory feat. It doesn't matter how much we spin it, the outcome is inevitable.

Here's the thing - I never believe that I know more about how magic works in the FT verse than Mashima or any character in the series. For example, Laxus knows more about magic than I do by a long way.

This is essentially a debate of information and knowledge. You/I as readers acquire knowledge about the FT verse through events and statements. If Wahl can nullify MBP's and runes with a particle canceler, then he can. I simply don't have the knowledge to refute this situation as a retcon or BS or nonsense etc. To do that you would need at least these 3 things off the top of my head...

1) complete understanding of anti-magic particles
2) complete understanding of runes
3) complete understanding of Wahl's particle canceller

If your knowledge covers the scope of those 3, then you can certainly prove without a doubt that Laxus being cured was nonsense.

All I can do right now is assume things based on what happened. Doesn't mean I am right, but the burden of proof isn't really on me here. We'll probably go around in circles so you can have the last say.

 

[BluePegasus]

Wahl's proxy used Weakness Magic. The real Wahl uses Alchemy, which was stated by Kagura.

 

[Beefcakes]

Wahl's proxy used Weakness Magic. The real Wahl uses Alchemy, which was stated by Kagura.

The real Wahl can also use Weakness Magic, imo. If not, there was no need for the flashback to show Fake!Wahl (when Freed's runes were first dispersed during the initial Magnolia siege) during his final bout with Laxus when he inadvertently cancelled the MBPs.

 

[Kiki]

This whole Laxus vs Wahl topic has been floating around this FT forum. There are always pros and cons of course, and not only to this topic. One thing for sure is don't forget to keep discussion civil ^^

I think I'll leave this topic. So tiring and makes me dizzy to overthink especially about definition and ways of working of MBP, Jutsu shiki, particles, etc etc. Indeed that's too bad that Mashima-sensei gave us short fight and short chapter instead of giving us a double chapter, long fight between them, and understandable explanations. But whatever we said, it doesn't change that Laxus has defeated Wahl. Laxus won with high diff, and a healthy Laxus will win less than that diff. Laxus is already Spriggan-tiered. He can use Jutsu shiki. I won't be surprised if Bickslow and Evergreen can use it, and people from Magic Council such as Gajeel, Levy, Lily, Eve, Mest can use it as well.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

PoF is actually quite literal. The easiest example is Mavis converting the feelings of FT members into magic power to cast Fairy Sphere.

Okay, well I'm glad you find that legit. Maybe Fairy Tail can beat Acnologia after all. Just spam attacks and keep using Fairy Sphere. After all, it only requires the power of feelings right?

It is left up to interpretation, but Erza's "death" scene was most likely the root of Nakama Power and it's true meaning.

Let me just clarify - you're believing that a so-called dead person is empowering Laxus?

I can give you my opinion on Red Lightning, and I have as stated before. I'm not giving you an excuse - just an interpretation. And my view is consistent with the manga, doesn't mean I am right, but for now it's reasonable.

No, I said that the feelings of Yury Dreyar empowered Laxus. In other words, memories, or also known as Nakama Power. It is self-explanatory because like I said, it is the exact same scene as Erza. Just replace the characters. Unless, you're telling me that you actually thought Erza actually gained power from Jellal and Fairy Tail? No. There is no way Jellal, who was in jail, could give Erza power nor her guildmates. She literally just thought about them and used that power to her advantage.

Spoiler: Ch 473 particle canceller

Either way, both panels would support what I'm trying to say. By definition, Particle Canceller would nullify all particles as Laxus confirms it. But this defies logic as Laxus was still able to use magic afterwards despite the fact that all magic within the raidus should have vanished.

Here's the thing - I never believe that I know more about how magic works in the FT verse than Mashima or any character in the series. For example, Laxus knows more about magic than I do by a long way.

This is essentially a debate of information and knowledge. You/I as readers acquire knowledge about the FT verse through events and statements. If Wahl can nullify MBP's and runes with a particle canceler, then he can. I simply don't have the knowledge to refute this situation as a retcon or BS or nonsense etc. To do that you would need at least these 3 things off the top of my head...

1) complete understanding of anti-magic particles
2) complete understanding of runes
3) complete understanding of Wahl's particle canceller

If your knowledge covers the scope of those 3, then you can certainly prove without a doubt that Laxus being cured was nonsense.

All I can do right now is assume things based on what happened. Doesn't mean I am right, but the burden of proof isn't really on me here. We'll probably go around in circles so you can have the last say.

Well, of course none of us knows more than Hiro Mashima or the characters. But from the understanding we get in the manga, we should be able to piece them together and form a logical argument. I mean why else would we read this if we wouldn't be able to fully understand it?

I think the Tartaros Arc covered the understanding of anti-magic particles pretty well. Similarly, we learned what Rune Magic is especially from Freed. So the only other source of information we need is Wahl's Particle Canceller which we should be able to derive from the knowledge that we have of the previous 2 concepts. After all, they oppose each other. So even if we can't tell whether the nullification is of MBP or runes, we should be able to realize that it has to be everything or nothing, meaning both or none. I don't know but to me it seems like we have just enough information to analyze this.

 

[Orgastthemage]

Mavis was the one who deduced Wahl had the ability to dispel magic barriers. Laxus was in the Magnolia. He knew that Freed's barrier was nullified. Laxus explains in the battle vs Wahl that if someone can dispel Freed's barriers then they can probably nullify the magic barrier particles inside of him.

Laxus has that level of durability, it's not a plot-durability. I'd agree if he shows inferior durability feats in this arc, but the most durable in FT guild for now.

Well it never mentioned that Freed or Mavis told him. He just said whoever could dispel the runes would be his cure. He never mentioned Wahl's name. He did not know if Wahl could.

Wahl's one shot was dumb. He should have far higher durability than that plus a machine like him makes a calculation error?! Wahl ,then, in the middle of his barrage of attacks decides to launch an electrical attack at Laxus. That could never happen to a machina that takes note of even the smallest details in a battle.

 

[Beefcakes]

Really? How does Weakness Magic have anything to do with this situation? Wahl has two types of magic. Nullification Magic and Weakness Magic. Weakness Magic had nothing to do with Laxus except the immunity to lightning. But that is a different topic. The nullification aspect is what I'm talking about here. Like you said, there are only two conditions in which you could dispel Rune Magic. The first being that you satisfy its rules. The second being that you are able to create a new one. None of which applies to the canceling of Magic Barrier Particles.

To be honest, I know exactly where you're coming from, but it's easy to misconstrue the context here.

Weakness Magic is everything in this fight, my friend. Contrary to what may seem, Wahl doesn't have nullification magic per se. If the nullification magic you're pertaining to is Wahl nullifying the MBPs, that's not nullifying - that's a side effect of exploiting the weakness of that specific Rune Magic. Since Laxus set the rules to dispel that last rune barrier - the condition being to remove all MBPs - Wahl certainly did just that by fulfilling the condition Laxus set.

That outcome actually stemmed from Wahl's weakness magic. The Weakness Magic is a veritable counter to everything - Juvia's water body? Voila, Wahlbot has burning steam. Gray's ice? Voila, Wahlbot suddenly has fire. Elfman's sluggish powerpunches? Voila, Wahlbot suddenly has super speed. Those are no different from - Laxus has rune barriers? Voila, Wahl suddenly has MBP removing abilities to fulfill the condition in order to remove that barrier.

The Weakness Magic endows Wahl a diverse deus-ex-machina skill set to pinpoint an enemy's weakness and is different from battle to battle.

That's called exploiting every magic's weakness, and the Rune Magic was no exception. Wahl just exploited its major weakness - just fulfill the condition and it will disappear.

If his magic is indeed nullification, he could've just rendered everyone's magic ineffective and could've just proceeded to lolstomp everyone. He could've turned Juvia's body to ice, he could've reduced Gray's ice to a puddle like Sugarboy from Edolas did, hell, he could've disabled Elfman's and Lisanna's TakeOvers to prove a point.

But he cannot, since his magic is Weakness, ergo - countering attacks with the thing that they're mostly vulnerable to, which will render them ineffective.

The only true nullification feat we've seen in FT so far is Erza and Brandish being in those anti-magic handcuffs (unless I'm forgetting something?). That's nullification. If there's any panel or feat of Wahl "nullifying" or dispersing something other than the MBPs, then I'll have to concede and admit that I misunderstood the context, but Mashima's panel placement in those scenes is pretty deliberate.

You're missing the point. I'm not arguing about whether the condition to nullify the Magical Barrier Particles satisfied the rules or not. I'm simply asking how was he able to cancel out two different types of magic with totally opposite effects. The fact that both coincidentally had similar names should not be a factor when they aren't even remotely the same in context.

I'm sorry, but you're the one who's missing the point. I'm assuming that you're referring to this post?

To start off, Magical Barrier Particles (MBP) which is what caused Laxus' illness is Anti-Magic or Anti-Ethernano Particles. It is a form of poison to mages since they use magic. Originally, these particles were associated with Curses which is opposite to Magic.

On the contrary, the Jutsu Shiki (Letter Magic) which is supposedly a form of Caster Magic that uses magical runes to create barriers which most people refer to as Rune Magic. Note that this is a form of magic and that it literally creates a barrier.

So the confusion between both types of Magical Barrier Particles lies in the fact that one is actually a magic barrier (Anti-Ethernano) that takes the fotrm of particles (Mist) while the other is pretty much just magic particles (Runes) that make up a barrier (Shield/Boundary). So same name, but totally different in context.

Now now, we're going to silly semantics here. Wahl did not dispel the Rune Barrier per se. He just removed the MBPs (an ability granted by his Weakness Magic), which caused the Rune Barrier to disappear. Since he, you know - fulfilled the condition Laxus set. Once came after the other; they were not simultaneous.

The question you should be asking was why Wahl was all gungho and stupidly desperate enough to get out of that Rune Barrier.

Bottomline - Laxus outsmarted Wahl on all accounts and won on impressive terms. Laxus knew about Wahl's weakness magic and waited for the right time to use that ability for his own benefit.

 

[Synn]

Top 10 Spriggan 12 thus far:
Top tier:
- August
High Tier:
- God Serena (
- Dimaria/Bradman
- Invel
Mid Tier:
- Brandish
- Jacob
Low Tier:
- Ajeel/Wahl/Neinhart

Top Fairy Tail members:
Top tier:
- Natsu/Gildarts
- Erza/Laxus
High Tier:
- Gray/Gajeel
- Mirajane
- Lucy/Makarov
Mid Tier:
- Wendy
- Juvia
Low Tier:
- The rest

 

[Mirage]

Top 10 Spriggan 12 thus far:

Top tier:
- August
High Tier:
- God Serena (
- Dimaria/Bradman
- Invel
Mid Tier:
- Brandish
- Jacob
Low Tier:
- Ajeel/Wahl/Neinhart

Top 10 Fairy Tail members:

Top tier:
- Natsu/Gildarts
- Erza/Laxus
High Tier:
- Gray/Gajeel
- Mirajane
- Makarov
Mid Tier:
- Wendy
- Juvia
Low Tier:
- The rest

Brandish should be higher and Erza isn't on Laxus' level.

 

[Synn]

Brandish should be higher and Erza isn't on Laxus' level.

We have barely seen Brandish fight or go all out, which is why I didn't place her higher. As for Erza, she is on the same tier as Laxus for me, yes.

 

[Mirage]

We have barely seen Brandish fight or go all out, which is why I didn't place her higher. As for Erza, she is on the same tier as Laxus for me, yes.

Yet you put August at the top? Ok.

Brandish's feat at Caracole island was calculated at island level, which puts her above any of the Spriggans bar Dimaria because of loltimestop.

Erza isn't on Laxus' tier. He has the upper game in speed, DC and attack potency.

 

[Synn]

Yet you put August at the top? Ok.

Brandish admitted that August is superior in power. That was also stated by Jacob and Makarov made it clear that he is very powerful. We haven't seen him fight, but I'm ranking him based on hype and knowledge I have from the manga. How is that off?

Brandish's feat at Caracole island was calculated at island level, which puts her above any of the Spriggans bar Dimaria because of loltimestop.

I never said her magic isn't impressive; it really is. The problem is that if I'm comparing Brandish's magic to Dimaria's, the latter seems to be more dangerous, especially because Brandish doesn't seem to have any counter to Dimaria's Age Seal. Granted, Brandish can control the mass of things, but Dimaria can stop it from happening, as she can control time. That's the reason why I ranked Dimaria higher. Again, I would rank her higher if we had seen more of her magic and in actual combat, preferably with her going all out.

Erza isn't on Laxus' tier. He has the upper game in speed, DC and attack potency.

I beg to differ, but I'm not going to argue. I have my opinion and you have yours; nothing's going to change that.

 

[Mirage]

Brandish admitted that August is superior in power. That was also stated by Jacob and Makarov made it clear that he is very powerful. We haven't seen him fight, but I'm ranking him based on hype and knowledge I have from the manga. How is that off?

Feats have priority over statements.

I never said her magic isn't impressive; it really is. The problem is that if I'm comparing Brandish's magic to Dimaria's, the latter seems to be more dangerous, especially because Brandish doesn't seem to have any counter to Dimaria's Age Seal. Granted, Brandish can control the mass of things, but Dimaria can stop it from happening, as she can control time. That's the reason why I ranked Dimaria higher. Again, I would rank her higher if we had seen more of her magic and in actual combat, preferably with her going all out.

I don't even know what you're arguing here. I never said to put Brandish higher than Dimaria.

I beg to differ, but I'm not going to argue. I have my opinion and you have yours; nothing's going to change that.

Yeah, you beg to differ with no reasoning. Nice to know that I can already tell that you're just biased.

 

[Loke]

Erza couldn't even solo a Spriggan. She isn't even sick Laxus tier, much less healthy Laxus tier.

 

[Synn]

Feats have priority over statements.

Even when said person admits to being inferior? I doubt it.

I don't even know what you're arguing here. I never said to put Brandish higher than Dimaria.

My apologies, I thought you were arguing about why I didn't rank her higher than Dimaria.

Yeah, you beg to differ with no reasoning. Nice to know that I can already tell that you're just biased.

I've posted plenty of reasoning in this week's thread, so I won't copy and paste everything again just because you're asking for it. Go look there, if you are that interested.

 

[Mirage]

Even when said person admits to being inferior? I doubt it.

Yes, even when said person admits to being inferior. This is basic knowledge of debating in vs threads.

If Superman states that he's weaker than Juvia, is that the case when he clearly has superior feats? Which contradict his statement? Hell no.

I mean sure, August is hyped, but hype honestly means nothing in FT. Or else Brandish would be country level due to her alias.

I've posted plenty of reasoning in this week's thread, so I won't copy and paste everything again just because you're asking for it. Go look there, if you are that interested.

Yeah I've already seen that you've claimed Kyouka > Hades.

 

[Synn]

Yes, even when said person admits to being inferior. This is basic knowledge of debating in vs threads.

If Superman states that he's weaker than Juvia, is that the case when he clearly has superior feats? Which contradict his statement? Hell no.

I mean sure, August is hyped, but hype honestly means nothing in FT. Or else Brandish would be country level due to her alias.

Okay, since you want to be right, then I'll give you that. You are absolutely right! Brandish is number 2, after Dimaria

Yeah I've already seen that you've claimed Kyouka > Hades.

It's easy to read everyone else's posts, instead of my own, because I never claimed that Kyouka > Hades. I said they may be equal in power, but not stronger. Glad to know I'm not the only one with a biased opinion.

 

[Mirage]

Okay, since you want to be right, then I'll give you that. You are absolutely right! Brandish is number 2, after Dimaria

Just being objective, no need to be sour.

It's easy to read everyone else's posts, instead of my own, because I never claimed that Kyouka > Hades. I said they may be equal in power, but not stronger. Glad to know I'm not the only one with a biased opinion.

Claiming Kyouka = Hades doesn't make you look any better.