Final Jellal Fernandes vs Natsu Dragneel

[Raven]

Oh, but did he? I suggest that you re-read the whole battle.

That his strongest punch is capable of breaking through his durability only puts FDKM Natsu's attack on Spriggan level. The rest of Natsu isn't Spriggan level.

1 VS 1, Jacob vs Natsu, Jacob beats him as soon as he decides what magic he's going to use: stealth or space magic.

That Natsu gave Jacob the final blow does not put Natsu, by any means, above Jacob.

I'm not talking about FDKM Natsu being capable or not capable of beating any other spriggan, that's another topic. But he ain't defeating Jacob. Heck, Lucy has better chances at beating Jacob than Natsu.

Are you sure ? when Natsu entered BDKM Jacob didn't sustain the heat.. Natsu can destroy Jacob without any effort unrestricted

 

[Char]

Are you sure ? when Natsu entered BDKM Jacob didn't sustain the heat.. Natsu can destroy Jacob without any effort unrestricted

Are you suggesting Jacob is incapacitated as soon as Natsu enters BDKM because the heat emanating from his body is enoguh so as to 100% freeze Jacob and prevent him from using any kind of magic? Because going by that token, then Natsu would make the likes of Dimaria incapable of sustaining the heat (=making them incapable of using their magic) and would automatically win.

If you think that way, then the one who's faster (Natsu activating BDKM or Jacob using either of his magic) wins.

I don't think BDKM Natsu's heat is going to prevent any Spriggan from using his magic. It's as easy for Jacob as to join the palms of his hands to beat Natsu.

 

[Jellal.S.N]

@Debonair Raven
I said Igneel's Flames helped him "by a bit". And Natsu did only receive one more Attack.
And, at the end, there is a fact Zeref was waiting to get killed. Let's be honest here, none of our heroes have shown serous Zeref killing capabilities.

 

[Hermit]

Of course Demolition Fist can destroy the tower, heck TOH DF Natsu managed to destroy the thing when he punched Jellal through it.

Oh right,DF Natsu was able to destroy the Tower,so that's why it was still standing moments later and going to explode...I guess I somehow missed that
Since it's widely accepted that DF>FDKM (I don't even know where this came from),and DF Natsu couldn't even destroy the Tower,why would him in a weaker form affect the Tower in any way,shape or form?
Checkmate right there.

 

[SirSamuel016]

Lol xD, so Jellal is still on Wizard-saint tier ( a level which is fodder at the current arc) and he didn't improve, just because nobody stated it or it wasn't shown clearly ( although he learned new magic after the first time skip already, true heavenly body magic)!!!!!
Weren't you the one that said, Natsu vaporized the entire lake although noone confrmed it with words in the manga and it's not necessary because it was heavily implied !? Do not get me wrong I honestly do not care if Natsu vaporized the whole lake or only a part of it with his mere aura. Fact is, it's an impressive feat but you are kinda contradicting yourself!
Jellal wants to kill Zeref so he has become stronger too and is on spriggan tier now !!!!!

No, on the other hand in my post I'm saying Jellal has always been a Spriggan-tier mage.

Oh, but did he? I suggest that you re-read the whole battle.

That his strongest punch is capable of breaking through his durability only puts FDKM Natsu's attack on Spriggan level. The rest of Natsu isn't Spriggan level.

1 VS 1, Jacob vs Natsu, Jacob beats him as soon as he decides what magic he's going to use: stealth or space magic.

That Natsu gave Jacob the final blow does not put Natsu, by any means, above Jacob.

I'm not talking about FDKM Natsu being capable or not capable of beating any other spriggan, that's another topic. But he ain't defeating Jacob. Heck, Lucy has better chances at beating Jacob than Natsu.

I humbly don't understand how you may think Natsu could 'escape' Jacob's dimension or dodge attacks when using Stealth :S Lucy can undo his spatial magic and Leo can perceive him even through stealth.

Again, you're forgetting Natsu was holding back for the whole fight apart from when they were out of the guild which is where he finished it with one attack. If Natsu hadn't of held back, he'd of destroyed the guild with the sheer aura of his heat in base mode, just like he did to Domus Flau in chapter 418. He held back that whole fight apart from when they got away from the guild, so he wasn't fighting with his actual strength as even using a bit of it would've burnt the guild down.

 

[Rain Cloud]

You fell for my trap card right there with the arc comparisons. In ToH, Jellal was holding back a lot as he didn't want to destroy the Tower of Heaven (until he ultimately got super triggered at the end). At the grand magic games, Jellal didn't have to hold back as he wasn't caring about not breaking his precious little tower so he could do the deed for his little Zeref-kun. Come Alvarez, Jellal was triggered again and had the intent to kill Neinhart, hence he really threw a lot of power into that Grand Chariot.

Again, Jellal was holding back in the ToH, and this is a fact. He specifically stated he was holding back as he didn't want to break the ToH, so him suddenly being a bit stronger when not holding back against the OS is very believable. Unlike the Neinhart fight, Jellal didn't have the intent to kill, only to stop the Oracion Seis and then recruit them to Crime Sorciere so he wasn't letting rip as much as what he did against Neinhart. If you get my point here, he's always been holding back his true destructive power a bit until the Neinhart fight where he used his true strength (after getting taken out the first time). He declared he'd sin again, and the sin was killing Neinhart for hurting the inferior waifu Erza (Jegura OTP).

As my point earlier, Jellal has always been on this level, even at the ToH. He's just been holding back the entire time because it suited his purpose. So no, I'm not running out of arguments, I'm just now bringing out the serious argument that he's always been this level, which is supported by there being no signs of any growth from him after the ToH.

> You fell for my trap card right there with the arc comparisons.
LOOOOOOL.

Doesn't matter Alvarez GC > GMG GC by a whole lot. That southern front AoE charge definitely packed a punch tiers above his GMG GC.

So, let's pretend there's little growth. How does this benefit Natsu? We can say "hey Lucy's been improving this whole time, but God Serena? Nah he's always been at the same level" Lucy > Serena. That's the vibe.

But either way, think of about, just think. If Jellal was THIS powerful during ToH, he wouldn't have been a regular wizard saint. He would have been a God of Ishgar, above Wolfheim and probably hyberion. If that doesn't decide it, then I don't know what can convince you.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2016 ---

Of course Demolition Fist can destroy the tower, heck TOH DF Natsu managed to destroy the thing when he punched Jellal through it.

He destroyed a few floors. He did little to the overall tower.

Demolition Fist, hard to tell. It doesn't really have much AoE to go off of currently.

 

[Brandish μ]

Oh, but did he? I suggest that you re-read the whole battle.

That his strongest punch is capable of breaking through his durability only puts FDKM Natsu's attack on Spriggan level. The rest of Natsu isn't Spriggan level.

1 VS 1, Jacob vs Natsu, Jacob beats him as soon as he decides what magic he's going to use: stealth or space magic.

That Natsu gave Jacob the final blow does not put Natsu, by any means, above Jacob.

I'm not talking about FDKM Natsu being capable or not capable of beating any other spriggan, that's another topic. But he ain't defeating Jacob. Heck, Lucy has better chances at beating Jacob than Natsu.

I do agree that Jacob can defeat Natsu with transport assuming that Jacob can actually pull off the kill in the other dimension as he says he can (well he had to remove Brandish and Marin, so I think he can assassinate people in his dimension).

Stealth is different. He's still there, but he's invisible and impossible to sense. If Natsu enters FDKM the heat with still hurt Jacob, and Natsu could spam in multiple directions, which would land hits. Stealth would still be useful, but it's not as OP as Transport imo.

Jellal and Natsu more or less have the same situation. Both have offence that can take out Jacob/Neinhart, but neither totally took the brunt of the Spriggans magic. Neinhart's best attack against Jellal was Simon, despite the fact Neinhart has the power to make Hades/Ur/Kyoka/Azuma/Ezel/Keith/Zancrow simultaneously. All 3 times Jacob tried to use transport someone else prevented him from getting at Natsu. So on a technicality they didn't solo Spriggans, but they have the capability to do so. Certainly in offence they are better than the Spriggans bar Irene/August.

 

[SirSamuel016]

Oh right,DF Natsu was able to destroy the Tower,so that's why it was still standing moments later and going to explode...I guess I somehow missed that
Since it's widely accepted that DF>FDKM (I don't even know where this came from),and DF Natsu couldn't even destroy the Tower,why would him in a weaker form affect the Tower in any way,shape or form?
Checkmate right there.

And the reason that very tower was going to explode was because Natsu trashed it too much by punching Jellal around like a ragdoll while using Dragon Force. You're also comparing ToH Dragon Force to Alvarez Flame Dragon King Mode, which is a really poor comparison seeing Natsu is way stronger now than he was back then.
If you want checkmate, you should remember that Jellal was absolutely wrecked after the fight and it took a lot of special healing from Wendy in the Oracion Seis arc to bring him back around.

 

[Char]

Again, you're forgetting Natsu was holding back for the whole fight apart from when they were out of the guild which is where he finished it with one attack. If Natsu hadn't of held back, he'd of destroyed the guild with the sheer aura of his heat in base mode, just like he did to Domus Flau in chapter 418. He held back that whole fight apart from when they got away from the guild, so he wasn't fighting with his actual strength as even using a bit of it would've burnt the guild down.

My reasoning does not in any way regard Natsu holding back as a factor. He may be holding back, he may not; it's not a factor. Natsu is incapable of breaking through Jacob's hax and Jacob automatically wins after he uses his hax.

Natsu might've used his full power and might've destroyed the guild and boiled to death all of the people in there, but since Natsu's body's heat did not kill Jacob upon releasing FDKM, I'm inclined to think his heat is not enough so as to prevent the enemy from using magic, at least not within the first seconds/minutes.

No, Natsu's heat wouldn't have prevented Jacob from using his hax.

Stealth is different. He's still there, but he's invisible and impossible to sense. If Natsu enters FDKM the heat with still hurt Jacob, and Natsu could spam in multiple directions, which would land hits. Stealth would still be useful, but it's not as OP as Transport imo.

You are right, stealth involves the user being there, so the heat would affect him unless he can throw an invisible knife to a vital part of Natsu's...

 

[Solitrine]

Jellal has definately grown since ToH, just look at Grand Chariot now compared to back then.


Thinking about this even more I don't think DF is going to be effective against Jellal at all. Natsu goes DF then Jellal flies up high and then Natsu does nothing whilst having wasted MP. If he uses his flames to boost himself up then he is just going to get stomped in an air fight since he has no manuaverability compared to Jellal.

Currnet Base Natsu > Df tartarous. lol



your reasons are flawed, Natsu endured some of zeref's attack and you are saying Jacob > Natsu rofl.

Anyways, Jellal can't sustain Natsu's attack at all, he couldn't at toh and he won't now.

He could at ToH, re-read the fight. He took no visible damage from DF Natsu's attacks apart from the attack which smashed him through the lacrima tower (that only happened in the first place because of Erza's slash).

you should remember that Jellal was absolutely wrecked after the fight and it took a lot of special healing from Wendy in the Oracion Seis arc to bring him back around.

That is such flawed logic. Jellal was floating around in Etherion for the whole time up until Brain found him, he was still conscious after Natsu delivered as he was able to merge with the Etherion and direct it away from Natsu+Erza. All of his damage was from Etherion when Wendy healed him.

 

[Shoutmon]

Oh right,DF Natsu was able to destroy the Tower,so that's why it was still standing moments later and going to explode...I guess I somehow missed that
Since it's widely accepted that DF>FDKM (I don't even know where this came from),and DF Natsu couldn't even destroy the Tower,why would him in a weaker form affect the Tower in any way,shape or form?
Checkmate right there.

> You fell for my trap card right there with the arc comparisons.
LOOOOOOL.

Doesn't matter Alvarez GC > GMG GC by a whole lot. That southern front AoE charge definitely packed a punch tiers above his GMG GC.

So, let's pretend there's little growth. How does this benefit Natsu? We can say "hey Lucy's been improving this whole time, but God Serena? Nah he's always been at the same level" Lucy > Serena. That's the vibe.

But either way, think of about, just think. If Jellal was THIS powerful during ToH, he wouldn't have been a regular wizard saint. He would have been a God of Ishgar, above Wolfheim and probably hyberion. If that doesn't decide it, then I don't know what can convince you.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2016 ---

He destroyed a few floors. He did little to the overall tower.

Demolition Fist, hard to tell. It doesn't really have much AoE to go off of currently.

The entire tower was crumbling and about to collapse from that punch, go read it again, and that was just from TOH DF Natsu's punch, and since even current base natsu >>>>>>> TOH DF Natsu, his Demolition Fist would obviously have a more drastic effect.

 

[Jellal.S.N]

And the reason that very tower was going to explode was because Natsu trashed it too much by punching Jellal around like a ragdoll while using Dragon Force. You're also comparing ToH Dragon Force to Alvarez Flame Dragon King Mode, which is a really poor comparison seeing Natsu is way stronger now than he was back then.
If you want checkmate, you should remember that Jellal was absolutely wrecked after the fight and it took a lot of special healing from Wendy in the Oracion Seis arc to bring him back around.

I agree with most of ur points but the last one. He needed healing as he fused with etherion after getting drilled by Natsu. Imo, that's not a bad feat at all and I'm pretty sure most need healing from Wendy after fusing with etherion.

 

[Rain Cloud]

And the reason that very tower was going to explode was because Natsu trashed it too much by punching Jellal around like a ragdoll while using Dragon Force. You're also comparing ToH Dragon Force to Alvarez Flame Dragon King Mode, which is a really poor comparison seeing Natsu is way stronger now than he was back then.
If you want checkmate, you should remember that Jellal was absolutely wrecked after the fight and it took a lot of special healing from Wendy in the Oracion Seis arc to bring him back around.

Oh HELLLLLL no.

First off to get it out of the way, he's using ToH DF which is like no different than Tartarus DF tbh. Same high speed etc. etc.

As for Jellal being wrecked, guess what. That wasn't from Natsu. Boy that would be embarassing.
He was clearly knocked into that state due to the etherion blast and how he controlled it into the sky. You can see his face have blue marks all over them to justify this. His being beaten up but living only goes to show his body has enough high endurance to take the attack that can destroy a country.

 

[Arjuna]

Are we really comparing DF of TOH arc and current Arc's.Natsu improved tremendously from that arc.Even his casual attacks in his base state are above 10 megatonnes which is enough to destroy a city let alone a tower.

 

[Rain Cloud]

The entire tower was crumbling and about to collapse from that punch, go read it again, and that was just from TOH DF Natsu's punch, and since even current base natsu >>>>>>> TOH DF Natsu, his Demolition Fist would obviously have a more drastic effect.

What are you talking about man.

Here's a picture of the tower right before it exploded from magic overload:

Now tell me how that tower does not look in tact.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2016 ---

Are we really comparing DF of TOH arc and current Arc's.Natsu improved tremendously from that arc.Even his casual attacks in his base state are above 10 megatonnes which is enough to destroy a city let alone a tower.

If you really look at it, ToH vs. Tartarus DF -- the only difference in enhancing Natsu was that we got to see a secret art used the second time.

As for using the "current" arc's info, there is none.

 

[Jellal.S.N]

Are we really comparing DF of TOH arc and current Arc's.Natsu improved tremendously from that arc.Even his casual attacks in his base state are above 10 megatonnes which is enough to destroy a city let alone a tower.

They aren't city level. So Jellal also improved tremendously, so sema is now country level? Natsu is strong but his base attacks ain't destroying a city.

 

[Raven]

Are you suggesting Jacob is incapacitated as soon as Natsu enters BDKM because the heat emanating from his body is enoguh so as to 100% freeze Jacob and prevent him from using any kind of magic? Because going by that token, then Natsu would make the likes of Dimaria incapable of sustaining the heat (=making them incapable of using their magic) and would automatically win.

If you think that way, then the one who's faster (Natsu activating BDKM or Jacob using either of his magic) wins.

I don't think BDKM Natsu's heat is going to prevent any Spriggan from using his magic. It's as easy for Jacob as to join the palms of his hands to beat Natsu.

I mean Jacob is an easy target for Natsu and one shotable material for Natsu in BDKM that's why Hiro wrote he was holding back. Are you reading a different manga ?

 

[Rain Cloud]

I mean Jacob is an easy target for Natsu and one shotable material for Natsu in BDKM that's why Hiro wrote he was holding back. Are you reading a different manga ?

Yes, Natsu was holding back. So?

The point of the mater is, even if he were holding back, the only reason Jacob lost was because Lucy & Happy came to save the day and plot. Without them, Natsu is on a one-way ticket to being transported.

 

[Shoutmon]

What are you talking about man.

Here's a picture of the tower right before it exploded from magic overload:

Now tell me how that tower does not look in tact.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2016 ---

If you really look at it, ToH vs. Tartarus DF -- the only difference in enhancing Natsu was that we got to see a secret art used the second time.

As for using the "current" arc's info, there is none.

 

[Arjuna]

What are you talking about man.

Here's a picture of the tower right before it exploded from magic overload:

Now tell me how that tower does not look in tact.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2016 ---

If you really look at it, ToH vs. Tartarus DF -- the only difference in enhancing Natsu was that we got to see a secret art used the second time.

As for using the "current" arc's info, there is none.

So according to you TOH Natsu and Tartaros Natsu is same.No improvement in power?

They aren't city level. So Jellal also improved tremendously, so sema is now country level? Natsu is strong but his base attacks ain't destroying a city.

Even Bluenote is small city level.Base Natsu is city level because he Engulfed the entire GMG arena in flames from casually releasing some of his magic, and GMG arena is as large as a city.Effortlessly oneshoted Bluenote, who almost stalemated Gildarts, who casually accidentally completely destroyed a small mountain in one blow.Even Acnologia is no country level and you think Jellal is?