Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Woodenstool]

Oh my,
But dear dumbness-sama~
I remember Gray shitting his pants even more :3
Where the fuck are Natsu and Gajeel equal? Gajeel is like the weakest shit in Alvarez arc. DF somehow made him strong but that's it. Don't go Natsu hate without any agreeable arguments.
Your post is a high stacked Pile of shit.

Gray is stronger then Natsu?
Where the fuck did u get that from?
Cuz he stomps Invel?
Hell you're kinda dumb aren'tya?
Imagine Invel being the same mage.. Just with fire as his element.
Natsu would stomp him trough the Planet.
Natsu and Gray can be considered equal. But not with Gajeel.
Erza? HAHAHA
In this arc, she too, isn't really special. Natsu and Gray would both stomp her.
And please what does Erzas Fire armor mean? Nothing. It doesn't negate flames... It just shields you from them... To some extent. No full guard. Wind? Really? I would worry about Wind if it were maybe Wendy but Erza srsly? Remember Natsu vs Erigor? In his early days Natsu destroyed something stupid like some whirlwind...
And now his flames are idk how much hotter and he has the flames of Igneel.
U really wanna say the Flames of the Great King of Fire Dragons, wich even Acno couldn't negate or withstand them (even if he had no damage he couldn't push them away or something) would lose against Erza? It's basically the same thing if Natsu does a roar of that scale.
U, like, REALLY think Erza won't get hurt?
Well if there was some sort of exam about Fairy Tail strenghts, if I look at your skill of comparing strenghts, then good luck pal.
But try getting some facts and arguments and not just spouting some words here and there.
I can also say
Natsu is way stronger then August, like, WAY STRONGER.
But that doesn't make it true 'till I have arguments for backup...

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 5, 2016 ---

As for Gildarts...
That man now is in his prime...
Natsu is far from it.
Don't compare such silly fights ok?
And Natsu would in my opinion stomp the Gildarts after tartarus. Something happened that made him THAT much stronger. Remember.. In tenrou he was bluenote lvl. Natsu one shot bluenote.
That means Natsu >>>>>> Tenrou Gildarts
Idk bout Tartaros Gildarts but his look was the old one there soooo meh idk i think his change of looks happened when he got stronger.
So yeah.. An incredible mage... BUT I WON'T say Natsu doesn't have a chance. Yeah in the end, he would lose imo, but he would give him a nice fight.

Natsu put a lot of effort into that roar and he didn't fight him. Had Gildarts use magic from the start, he would've one shotted him. You think Natsu can one shot bluenotestinger without any fire punches? Lol I don't think so bud. So no, it doesn't mean Natsu is stronger than Gildarts. And everyone in the story is at their prime, Fairy tail only has 50-70 chapters left until the story ends.

Erza is faster than Natsu, and can just kill him. I don't get how him one shotting a spriggan gives him an automatic win. Natsu only defeated Jacob because he was unable to move, just like the GOW. Erza can one shot any spriggan if they aren't moving bud.

Natsu can react to Gildarts speed nor can he counter his immense strength. He has causal mountain busting punches, he negates all of Natsu spells that aren't even mountain level. Can you put two and two together?

August is weak, his got sliced by a butter knife. Had it been Lucy if her Loki kick, he would've been dead.

Why are you comparing Natsus fire to Igneels? And you just contradicted your self, Acnologia can't negate Igneels attack but had no damage delt to him. Lol ok.

Current Natsu vs Tatarus Gildarts? That Gildarts has casual mountain busting punches and the same speed. Gildarts doesn't need training to take out Natsu within seconds. The Gildarts we seen is what I think is just an older Gildarts.

Natsu AOE mean jack shit if Erza blitz him the start before he can react.

 

[Brandish μ]

I disagree about Laxus feats being really that substantial than others.
People make it out like that, and the results end with Laxus being extremely over rated
Here is an example

Well they are substantial. As far as offence and physicals go, his feats are either the highest or on the top level... excluding the big guns like Acnologia/Zeref/Irene/August.

I think Laxus' is correctly or over rated by people, in much the same way as Gildarts is.

this seems perfectly reasonable. But some vital information is actually missing here
Let me fill those
LFD Natsu > Hades > Laxus(taken out by Hades immediately after Hades started to fight, took only Ames 25 formula to have him on his knees and talking about monsters) >= Makarov (taken out by Hades after Jupiter cannon, shocked to see his old master thus being hit causing him to lose titan form, Ames 25 formula, ames 100 formula and finally a heart attack ) > Team Natsu (wrecked team natsu, nearly all were involved in four conflicts before this, gray nearly lost conscious a page before attacking Hades, around six pages before that erza was having trouble taking a step)> Ezra (canonically never been stated to be weaker than Laxus atleast till this arc)

Laxus wasn't hit with Ama28, I actually don't know what Amaterasu he was hit with. All I know is that the casting of the spell was different. It's likely stronger than A28, not sure about A100.

Laxus wasn't really taken out by Hades. Laxus gave up his MP to Natsu. Laxus couldn't beat Hades as he acknowledged, but he pulled off arguably a better perfomance than Makarov or Team Natsu. He was fresh unlike Team Natsu, so I give them a pass... but when Hades started to take them a little more seriously he completely stomped them. I think Makarov is stronger than Tenrou Laxus, but in a fight Laxus is possibly more effective. At any rate Makarov's cannot out-cast someone like Hades.

Another example
In gmg , laxus feat are barely more substantial than erza feat again. How?
Raven tail, no hype.
Pandemonium, WS tier monster and 99 more monsters which erza takes out without SO.

Lexus takes out jura
Jura max hype Mira + pre SO erza (lets ignore for a moment that hype comparing good guys and bad guys are normally wrong)
Kagura with her sword sheathed was so powerful that markarov said she is stronger than erza
And mavis craped herself when Minerva did her nuke
What you get is kagura (sheathed) > erza (this is not real erza, this is the erza people know about, the one Mira compared with jura)
Minerva = erza (this is not real erza, this is the erza people know about, the one Mira compared with jura, because how shock Mavis was)

Ezra took um both out. One after the other. And even fought with unnecessary injury (broken leg)
So Laxus achievement might be better that last day, but not by huge amount at all.
But again Laxus feat would be considered much more substantial than erza. I mean I am talking distance between earth and heaven level difference here

GMG Laxus is probably better than pre-SO Erza by a fair way. When she released SO, I think she closed the gap a bit. Probably to the point that she can give Laxus a hard fight, maybe mid-high diff.

The hype you're using is from Mira's words right? So keep in mind she's probably talking about X784 Jura (as she doesn't know how much Jura has trained), then OS Jura >=< Tenrou Erza + GMG Mira... if I'm following the logic right.

I do agree Kagura was stronger than pre-SO Erza. But Erza didn't solo the both of them, and she didn't do so while it was 2 on 1. Essentially Erza would have lost against Kagura without SO. But she would have probably high-diffed Kagura with SO - Erza might have needed Nakagami just to solo Kagura.

Jura to me a solid tier above Kagura. Enough to beat her with less than high difficulty, but Jura would still need to perform at his best.

Same with that way he defeated Wahl
With immunity and cancer, he won. Lexus is agreed to be tier above Wahl.
But when erza beat koyoka without her senses and pain senses to max
People go "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasssssss pulllllllllllllllllll"
Apparently alot of people thinks she is around kagura level now

Thus, to conclude my thesis Laxus feats aren't that substantial, they are made to look like that by the fans

It's true Erza gets bashed a lot, but even I as an Erza fan was not happy with "She's Erza". I can buy it to some extent that her will power and endurance are on such a level that she can overcome Kyouka's curse. But maybe it's Hiro's writing by having Happy say "She's Erza" that really made that feel like we were being conned into having to accept it.

Laxus' Red Lightning is still controversial, but I don't call it an asspull. It's a spell he knew before the fight, and used it when he needed to. Could an explanation of it help? Yes. But I'm not going to hold Hiro accountable over a very side character like Laxus. I was happy enough he actually got a fight.

The biggest BS/asspull from his fight was using a Jutsu Shiki mid-battle, despite the fact that they were said to be non effective for combat in real time.

 

[Ebony Maw]

As for the comparison between Wahl and Bradman, I am really curious to know where you got the idea that Wahl is toying with Minerva while Bradman was going full power against Rogue.

I literally don't see anywhere that Bradman has gone full-powered on Sabertooth's Rogue while Wahl has easily defeated Minerva.

If anything, they are equal because while Bradman may lack offense, he makes it up for defense. On the contrary, Wahl lacks defense, but makes it up for offense.

I literally don't see any difference between Wahl and Bradman, they both have good feats that put them on par with each other.

This, I honestly don't see how you can say that Bradman wasn't a monster like Wahl, his sheer hax alone should be enough to put him up near Wahl but consider this: the only reason Gajeel even lasted so long against Bradman is due to Levy's help and his Iron lungs. The second Bradman went into his Third Seal form he began fodderizing base Gajeel, Gajeel literally couldn't counter, he wouldn't have been able to get his roar off against Bradman had Tenchi Kamei not been drained and when he did get it off Bradman matched it with his DeS Rage. Also keep in mind that any non-DS opponent would have to endure this whilst chocking on MBP's.

To make it worse Bradman wasn't even using his best curses, at any point in the fight he could have used the Sensation curse, the Enhancement curse or Macro. The fight is even worse when you consider that regular DF Gajeel wouldn't have been able to hit him, he was only able to hurt Bradman because he changed the properties of his attacks, meaning that Bradman could have dealt with a DF Gajeel had he not done that. Now I can hear the counter argument of "but that's just his body" and yes that is his body, that doesn't mean it isn't an advantage though, it would be like complaining that Gajeel survived the MBP's due to his lungs, that's his body.

As for the comparison of HistWahl and HistMan, that is a faulty comparison as that isn't their full strength, a comparison of the actual Wahl and Bradman is much fairer. On one hand we have Bradman, who was introduced by slaughtering anyone who went near him and fodderizing base Gajeel (who should be comparable to or stronger than Erza). On the other hand we have Wahl who was destroying anyone that got in range of his weapons and gave a nerfed Laxus a great fight. Honestly, I see Wahl and Bradman as equals, Bradman has a more hax based arsenal and body whereas Wahl is able to resist a type of magic of his choice and relies on his heavy arsenal to get the job done.

 

[sharkai]

Well, I can't compare Gray's attack power yet because I haven't seen all of his feats. But what I can say is that his attack power is at least on Erza's level. As for the Gods of Ishgar, I would say Hyberion has higher attack power than Erza (not by much). The reason I say this is because August was impressed by his spell. Wolfheim has about the same level of attack power as Erza. And Warrod/Jura are a little below Erza in terms of attack power.



Oh, yeah, I remember now. Sorry, you're right. I was thinking of Jura's Rock Mountain.

The attack that Jura used on the MPF was pretty impressive, in my opinion. It was at least 2x stronger than Orga's strongest attack. In my opinion, Laxus' roar is a little stronger than Minerva's Yagdo Rigora and Gajeel's ISD Roar. If we're talking about that GMG Arc that is...

Quite complicated method you have there. But you get some nice results

Well they are substantial. As far as offence and physicals go, his feats are either the highest or on the top level... excluding the big guns like Acnologia/Zeref/Irene/August.

I think Laxus' is correctly or over rated by people, in much the same way as Gildarts is.



Laxus wasn't hit with Ama28, I actually don't know what Amaterasu he was hit with. All I know is that the casting of the spell was different. It's likely stronger than A28, not sure about A100.

Laxus wasn't really taken out by Hades. Laxus gave up his MP to Natsu. Laxus couldn't beat Hades as he acknowledged, but he pulled off arguably a better perfomance than Makarov or Team Natsu. He was fresh unlike Team Natsu, so I give them a pass... but when Hades started to take them a little more seriously he completely stomped them. I think Makarov is stronger than Tenrou Laxus, but in a fight Laxus is possibly more effective. At any rate Makarov's cannot out-cast someone like Hades.



GMG Laxus is probably better than pre-SO Erza by a fair way. When she released SO, I think she closed the gap a bit. Probably to the point that she can give Laxus a hard fight, maybe mid-high diff.

The hype you're using is from Mira's words right? So keep in mind she's probably talking about X784 Jura (as she doesn't know how much Jura has trained), then OS Jura >=< Tenrou Erza + GMG Mira... if I'm following the logic right.

I do agree Kagura was stronger than pre-SO Erza. But Erza didn't solo the both of them, and she didn't do so while it was 2 on 1. Essentially Erza would have lost against Kagura without SO. But she would have probably high-diffed Kagura with SO - Erza might have needed Nakagami just to solo Kagura.

Jura to me a solid tier above Kagura. Enough to beat her with less than high difficulty, but Jura would still need to perform at his best.



It's true Erza gets bashed a lot, but even I as an Erza fan was not happy with "She's Erza". I can buy it to some extent that her will power and endurance are on such a level that she can overcome Kyouka's curse. But maybe it's Hiro's writing by having Happy say "She's Erza" that really made that feel like we were being conned into having to accept it.

Laxus' Red Lightning is still controversial, but I don't call it an asspull. It's a spell he knew before the fight, and used it when he needed to. Could an explanation of it help? Yes. But I'm not going to hold Hiro accountable over a very side character like Laxus. I was happy enough he actually got a fight.

The biggest BS/asspull from his fight was using a Jutsu Shiki mid-battle, despite the fact that they were said to be non effective for combat in real time.

Actually Lexus offense or physical was no more impressive than erza before the last time skip. He needed lightening dragon roar to barely put down gajeel (who was around aria level). He has pretty good durability but nothing else was special compared to jellal or erza
Even now, he is said to be most durable. Even though he along with gajeel and gray has taken barrage of attacks from a springgan

He did not put a better performance, that's the point
Look at how the fight went
Hades only used one chain magic, and pushed him back a little and magic that was around amaturasu 25 formula level. After which he collapsed. Maybe he could fight little bit more. But that is nowhere near what Markarov had to face
Jupiter cannon, chains when he was distracted, AMA 25 formula, AMA 100 formula, and heart attack.
Marakraov fought Hades on equal level.
Lexus was nowhere near that.
Also note Hades stared fighting or guarding against wrecked fairy tail team and marakarov. While he allowed Lexus the first move, which allowed him to land couple more hits, but ones he started moving, Lexus collapsed.

But you didn't give them a pass.
You wrote Lexus > = marakarov > tean natsu > erza
This obviously look much more substantial than
(going how sting was portrayed to take out all fairy tail members)
Lexus > wrecked team natsu > lissana

SO Ezra can only give mid high diff to Lexus
I guess you think that gmg Lexus could causally one shot gmg natsu?
Because from what I saw, pre ts natsu can give pre ts Lexus mid diff fight. So erza cannot have a lower than high diff fight.

"The hype you're using is from Mira's words right? So keep in mind she's probably talking about X784 Jura (as she doesn't know how much Jura has trained), then OS Jura >=< Tenrou Erza + GMG Mira... if I'm following the logic right."

Actually Mira new nothing about pre or post skip jura. Only that he was WS pre ts and possibly 5 rank WS post ts (jura visited marakrov after timeskip)
But I do know something
OS jura was ranked 10th WS
Tower of heaven arc erza was a WS tier mage herself
Pandemonium S class monster was also an WS tier
So it should be OS jura >= OS erza

"I do agree Kagura was stronger than pre-SO Erza. But Erza didn't solo the both of them, and she didn't do so while it was 2 on 1. Essentially Erza would have lost against Kagura without SO. But she would have probably high-diffed Kagura with SO - Erza might have needed Nakagami just to solo Kagura."

What? No
pre SO Ezra defeated Kagura after she got serious. Kinda how natsu defeat the twin dragons. Furthermore if Ezra hadn't saved kagura, it would have been high diff win for pre SO erza. And then she took out Minerva with SO
Beside SO is major power up. Even Minerva after getting demon power up lost mid diff to SO erza.

I don't care much about ass pull but rather the people reaction to it.
Ezra does ass pull, she is just that weak or something.
Lexus does ass pull, he is a tier above his opponent
Ezra vs koyoka and laxus vs Wahl are remarkable similar in ass pull department
But no one would commit blasphemy like tartaros erza is obviously mard tier
Though they might say end of series Ezra might be base mard level

Fyi, there was no point in learning red lightening before hand. He is dragon slayer, learn secret art. Learning red lightening before the fight, makes it look like he knew aout Wahl weakness and he only wanted to defeat him

 

[SirSamuel016]

Moderator Notice:
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[Ebony Maw]

Right now I believe that the strongest three are Acnologia, Zeref and August/Irene (leaning towards August).

 

[Solitrine]

Yeah, I'm a bit disappointed that August has been sidelined in favour of Irene. Via statement by Brandish (as well as being General of S12) he is meant to be a tiny bit stronger but Irene definately has better showings so far.

 

[Brandish μ]

Zeref and Natsu > August and Irene imo (talking about the poll).

August and Irene hold around the same level of power. But August will be the better fighter of the 2 if they went head to head. Irene is a genius of enchantments, so this skillset might has great utility that might trump August outside of a battlefield. But if the old guy can wield all kinds of magic, then I assume that would be better for combat than being a genius enchanter. And if August has God Serena's 8 dragon lacrima, then that would seal the deal for mine (DS magic is a powerful offensive magic).

 

[TeamWendy]

August is weak, his got sliced by a butter knife. Had it been Lucy if her Loki kick, he would've been dead.

Seriously?? If you will be stab by a giant butter knife then what would be the effect?? Even Gildarts would have the same reaction if he will be stab by that knife?? Why?? Because they're still HUMANS. They ain't Acnologia or Zeref who are dragons and immortal. Tell me, do you think Gildarts or Natsu wouldn't be sliced if they get stab by a knife?? If your answer is YES then that's utterly absurd.

 

[The President]

I'm not downplaying Ajeel.... What feats has the guy shown to even be placed on Average Spriggan Level.

Sand World is more impressive then a lot of things spriggans have.

His feats are only as good as low-tier Spriggan level. Natsu burned Ajeel's strongest sand nukes like they were nothing.

No he burned away his low-tier spell.

I'm not asking you to like Invel or Ajeel, but it isn't hard to recognize the difference between their power levels and feats.

Invel rose quite a bit in my rankings with his armour and endurance/durability feats.

As for the comparison between Wahl and Bradman, I am really curious to know where you got the idea that Wahl is toying with Minerva while Bradman was going full power against Rogue.

Wahl was in BASE (he still had assault mode). Bradman was using his full power.

If anything, they are equal because while Bradman may lack offense, he makes it up for defense. On the contrary, Wahl lacks defense, but makes it up for offense.

Except Wahl doesnt lack defence. He is basically immune to most forms of hax magic.

Lightning doesn't make your muscles grow bigger, that much I assure you.

Lightning stimulates his nerves to their uttermost limit. Thats the reason why lightning coat enhances Laxuses speed.

Once any lightning hits Wahl's metal body, the lightning effects are immediately negated and no damage is transferred.

Once regular lightning hits him it doesnt work, if there is a type of lightning outside of the scope of his AI there will be no immunity. Laxus uses lightning to enhance HIS OWN stats (as seen with lightning coat), not to damage the opponent. Its the reason why he CONTINUED doing it against Wahl over and over again, Laxus isn't stupid.

This tells you that Wahl has crap durability because he was defeated by lightning which he is 100% immune to.

LOL definitely not. Wahl outright says he doesn't recognize the attack, that means he DID NOT have an immunity to it. And because its still technically lightning it was SUPER EFFECTIVE against him since he had no developed immunity.

 

[Woodenstool]

Seriously?? If you will be stab by a giant butter knife then what would be the effect?? Even Gildarts would have the same reaction if he will be stab by that knife?? Why?? Because they're still HUMANS. They ain't Acnologia or Zeref who are dragons and immortal. Tell me, do you think Gildarts or Natsu wouldn't be sliced if they get stab by a knife?? If your answer is YES then that's utterly absurd.

So what you're saying is Natsu Secret art<Knife. If I threw a knife on the floor, it would bounce off. If I used an attack like Natsu, I would blow the area up.

A knife isn't touching Gildarts, his body being cover in crash will break it instantaneously.

 

[Static]

So what you're saying is Natsu Secret art<Knife. If I threw a knife on the floor, it would bounce off. If I used an attack like Natsu, I would blow the area up.

A knife isn't touching Gildarts, his body being cover in crash will break it instantaneously.

You do know that if Gildarts was covered in crash constantly, he would break things all the time right? Yeah, that doesn't happen.

Also, knifes/swords are lethal in Fairy Tail. Kagura was lightly injured from a blast from Minerva during the GMGs (Yagdo Rigora) yet Minerva was able to pierce her abdomen with a sword.

 

[Woodenstool]

You do know that if Gildarts was covered in crash constantly, he would break things all the time right? Yeah, that doesn't happen.

Also, knifes/swords are lethal in Fairy Tail. Kagura was lightly injured from a blast from Minerva during the GMGs (Yagdo Rigora) yet Minerva was able to pierce her abdomen with a sword.

Are you okay? Hiro isn't going to write Gildarts like that.

 

[Nemispelled]

Sand World is more impressive then a lot of things spriggans have.

Sand World is shit, it does no damage.

No he burned away his low-tier spell.

Low-tier spell? Natsu burned away at one of Ajeel's strongest sand attacks, what other attacks does Ajeel have that is even considered strong?

Invel rose quite a bit in my rankings with his armour and endurance/durability feats.

Yeah, I saw that coming from a mile, it was no surprise to me cuz I already knew Invel was this strong. It was pretty obvious.

Wahl was in BASE (he still had assault mode). Bradman was using his full power.

Again, I still don't know what you're talking about. I don't see anywhere that Bradman has gone full power.

Bradman didn't even use any of the Tartaros' demon spells...so please...

Except Wahl doesnt lack defence. He is basically immune to most forms of hax magic.

Except Wahl does lack defense. He was oneshotted by the element that he was immune to.

Lightning stimulates his nerves to their uttermost limit. Thats the reason why lightning coat enhances Laxuses speed.

No it doesn't, Wahl's body negates the effects of lightning, so Laxus was pretty much depending on physical strength.

Once regular lightning hits him it doesnt work, if there is a type of lightning outside of the scope of his AI there will be no immunity. Laxus uses lightning to enhance HIS OWN stats (as seen with lightning coat), not to damage the opponent. Its the reason why he CONTINUED doing it against Wahl over and over again, Laxus isn't stupid.

That's bullshit and you know it. Don't try to go and blame his AI for him being oneshotted.

Wahl should have been able to detect Red Lightning and create a counter-system to negate it.

It was just his crap durability that caused him to lose.

It's really simple. He was killed by the element he was immune to.

That means he has shit durability.

LOL definitely not. Wahl outright says he doesn't recognize the attack, that means he DID NOT have an immunity to it. And because its still technically lightning it was SUPER EFFECTIVE against him since he had no developed immunity.

For the last time man, that's his own damn fault.

His durability was shit and he couldn't tank RL.

Don't go blaming that he couldn't recognize the attack. Stop making excuses about Wahl not being able to detect crap.


Mard Geer couldn't recognize Gray's Ice Devil Zeroth Destructive Bow.

Hades didn't recognize Natsu's flame attacks.

Ajeel didn't recognize Erza's metal swords.


You see what these excuses sound like?

 

[Axiomus]

Wall is not naturally immune to lightning. Wall, along with all other machias, are actually naturally weak to lightning. Wall overcame this weakness of his by modifying his systems to be able to convert into power that he can use. If Wall cannot convert lightning into power, then lightning will still take advantage of Wall's initial weakness as a Machias. As it happens to be, Wall could not analyze red lightning and so it's only reasonable to assume that he wasn't able to modify his body to handle converting it into power he can use.

Spoiler: Wall's explaination of his weakness and how he overcame it

Hades doesn't have a weakness. He lost because his heart was destroyed. Mard Geer has a weakness, but he has no defense against it. He recognized the fact that Gray had devil slaying magic, and so would have known what type of attack Gray's bow was. Ajeel does recognize metal swords, but he's not weak to them. He's not even weak to water. Erza's sea god sword has the explict property of hardening sand. Ajeel had the ability to turn anything he touches into sand. Technically what happened was that he turned bits of the sword into sand, and then Erza hardened the sand, and then used the sand to cut him. None of these cases are comparable to Wall's. Wall's immunity to lightning is actually a compensation for his initial weakness. Nobody says that Mard Geer is weak because he is vulnerable to devil slaying magic. Wall is vulnerable to lightning. He's just so good that he developed a defense against it. Just because there exists a special type of lightning that can by-pass his defense doesn't mean that other attacks would be effective against him to the same degree.

Bloodman's third seal is represented by him engulfing himself in fire. Before he releases 3rd Seal, he looks like a DBZ alien when he has his hood down. Of course, you can say that we haven't seen Bloodman use any named attacks. However, the same can be said about Wahl. Only Wall's best attack is etherion, and Bloodman's best attack is Over Skelter. If I had to bet on one, I'd bet on etherion.

Spoiler: Bradman base form

Spoiler: 3rd Seal released

 

[Axiomus]

Gildarts has poof speed and Natsu was beaten very badly in a fight by Gildarts when he wasn't moving. Also he had one arm. Even in the Tatarus arc when they met, Gildarts had a smile while dodging all of his attacks. Natsu would never land a hit on Gildarts if they're serious from the start. Gildarts get in Natsus face instantaneously just like Byro and God Serena and throws multiple mountain busting punches. Gildarts has insane durability, His body is cloaked in Crash which is why when he walks, walls breaks.

You bring up Natsu hitting Gildarts, but that would never happen in a fight.

Poof speed? Natsu and Gildart's last serious fight was before the timeskip. In a serious fight, Bluenote could land hits against Gildarts before the 1 year timeskip. It's highly unlikely Natsu wouldn't be able to land a single hit against Gildarts. I'm not really trying to argue who would win in a Natsu vs Gildarts debate, but if I was I would point out that Neinhart (enhanced) > God Serena historia. This means that technically Natsu has beaten a stronger opponent than Gildarts has. Empyrean also happens to be Gildart's only named move, whereas Natsu's strike was unnamed and performed in base mode.

 

[Woodenstool]

Poof speed? Natsu and Gildart's last serious fight was before the timeskip. In a serious fight, Bluenote could land hits against Gildarts before the 1 year timeskip. It's highly unlikely Natsu wouldn't be able to land a single hit against Gildarts. I'm not really trying to argue who would win in a Natsu vs Gildarts debate, but if I was I would point out that Neinhart (enhanced) > God Serena historia. This means that technically Natsu has beaten a stronger opponent than Gildarts has. Empyrean also happens to be Gildart's only named move, whereas Natsu's strike was unnamed and performed in base mode.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 6, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 6, 2016 ---

Natsu has fire dragon king flames which he has yet to use. Technically, those flames have the same attributes as Igneel's.

Gildarts and Bluenote were fighting without magic. They were just creating huge explosion with their mere fist connecting. Natsu couldn't even move Jacob with basic fire punches, he resulted in FDK fist.

Look at the two panels of Gildarts using his Empyrean and Natsus demolition fist. Gildarts isn't trying and Natsu is screaming bud. Natsu can't use demolition on both hands, what happens if Gildarts runs to Natsu face and smacks him with multiple punches that can level a mountain? He's done. Demolition fist isn't even the size of a mountain, Gildarts would crack that spell instantly.

Natsu has shown zero speed feats this arc, Gildarts speed is on whole another level. His strength combined with his speed = blitz stomp Natsu.

Where's your evidence that God Serena is weaker than Neinhart? GS was about to do some serious damage if Gildarts didn't break his spell.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 6, 2016 ---

Poof speed? Natsu and Gildart's last serious fight was before the timeskip. In a serious fight, Bluenote could land hits against Gildarts before the 1 year timeskip. It's highly unlikely Natsu wouldn't be able to land a single hit against Gildarts. I'm not really trying to argue who would win in a Natsu vs Gildarts debate, but if I was I would point out that Neinhart (enhanced) > God Serena historia. This means that technically Natsu has beaten a stronger opponent than Gildarts has. Empyrean also happens to be Gildart's only named move, whereas Natsu's strike was unnamed and performed in base mode.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 6, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 6, 2016 ---

Natsu has fire dragon king flames which he has yet to use. Technically, those flames have the same attributes as Igneel's.

Igneels flames are featless, well it didn't do jack shit to Acnologia.

Ice chain, one person must for the chains to deactivate. So the chains had a glitch in it. Or shit writing to sale fan service.

 

[Nemispelled]

Wall is not naturally immune to lightning. Wall, along with all other machias, are actually naturally weak to lightning. Wall overcame this weakness of his by modifying his systems to be able to convert into power that he can use. If Wall cannot convert lightning into power, then lightning will still take advantage of Wall's initial weakness as a Machias. As it happens to be, Wall could not analyze red lightning and so it's only reasonable to assume that he wasn't able to modify his body to handle converting it into power he can use.

Spoiler: Wall's explaination of his weakness and how he overcame it

Of course he isn't naturally immune to lightning, he is made of metal. His metal body is a good conductor of electricity which would fry his circuits and system, I've said that many times.

But the point is that Wahl created a system in his body to counter the effects of electricity... he explained that in the very panel that you posted above.


Read the panel you posted again: Wahl said he devised a way to convert lightning into energy.

That means that Wahl should have had no problem to convert Red Lightning into something more powerful he can generate.

But did that happen? No.

Because the lightning overloaded his body for whatever reason, which ultimately led to his own death.

That means that if you take his lightning immunity away, his durability is crap.

And again, saying his AI didn't recognize the form of lightning is just complete bullshit.

Hades doesn't have a weakness. He lost because his heart was destroyed. Mard Geer has a weakness, but he has no defense against it. He recognized the fact that Gray had devil slaying magic, and so would have known what type of attack Gray's bow was. Ajeel does recognize metal swords, but he's not weak to them. He's not even weak to water. Erza's sea god sword has the explict property of hardening sand. Ajeel had the ability to turn anything he touches into sand. Technically what happened was that he turned bits of the sword into sand, and then Erza hardened the sand, and then used the sand to cut him. None of these cases are comparable to Wall's. Wall's immunity to lightning is actually a compensation for his initial weakness. Nobody says that Mard Geer is weak because he is vulnerable to devil slaying magic. Wall is vulnerable to lightning. He's just so good that he developed a defense against it. Just because there exists a special type of lightning that can by-pass his defense doesn't mean that other attacks would be effective against him to the same degree.

Hades, Ajeel, and Mard Geer may not have had a weakness, but my argument still stands.

It was their first time seeing Natsu's, Erza's, and Gray's attacks.

Therefore, they were so surprised and got caught off guard that they couldn't defend themselves and were defeated.


^

You see how stupid this sounds? And I'm not the one arguing for this... People need to quit making excuses and blaming his AI system for Wahl's own fault.

Bloodman's third seal is represented by him engulfing himself in fire. Before he releases 3rd Seal, he looks like a DBZ alien when he has his hood down. Of course, you can say that we haven't seen Bloodman use any named attacks. However, the same can be said about Wahl. Only Wall's best attack is etherion, and Bloodman's best attack is Over Skelter. If I had to bet on one, I'd bet on etherion.

Spoiler: Bradman base form

Spoiler: 3rd Seal released

Does going into his Third Seal form mean he is at full power?

No, it doesn't.


Gray had demon marks when he fought Invel back a few chapters... at best, Gray made a few scrapes on Invel.

Gray was going base form in the recent chapter and mauled Invel.


See what I mean here?

Please, don't tell me somebody is going full power when they really aren't.

That's just pure bias to downplay a character

 

[Axiomus]

Gildarts and Bluenote were fighting without magic. They were just creating huge explosion with their mere fist connecting. Natsu couldn't even move Jacob with basic fire punches, he resulted in FDK fist.

Look at the two panels of Gildarts using his Empyrean and Natsus demolition fist. Gildarts isn't trying and Natsu is screaming bud. Natsu can't use demolition on both hands, what happens if Gildarts runs to Natsu face and smacks him with multiple punches that can level a mountain? He's done. Demolition fist isn't even the size of a mountain, Gildarts would crack that spell instantly.

Natsu has shown zero speed feats this arc, Gildarts speed is on whole another level. His strength combined with his speed = blitz stomp Natsu.

Where's your evidence that God Serena is weaker than Neinhart? GS was about to do some serious damage if Gildarts didn't break his spell.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 6, 2016 ---

Igneels flames are featless, well it didn't do jack shit to Acnologia.

Ice chain, one person must for the chains to deactivate. So the chains had a glitch in it. Or shit writing to sale fan service.

Invel froze base Natsu. There is a huge power gap between that and FDK Natsu. Did you just say Igneel's flames are featless? That's amazing. Acnologia was covered in wounds when Igneel first knocked him down, and also - Igneel knocked him down. He was covered in fire when he did so.

Gildarts and Bluenote were fighting with magic. And if Bluenote can punch Gildarts without magic, then Natsu certainly can punch Gildarts with magic. Gildarts has never thrown multiple mountain busting punches in quick succession, and Natsu can throw multiple punches. In fact, Gildarts has never thrown multiple punches in quick succession in the actual manga, only in spin offs. Natsu has done so in the manga. Natsu had to hold back against Jacob. He probably could have moved him with a basic punch if he wanted to, as even in his base mode he has punches that outclass Makarov's. He just didn't want to blow a hole in the guild. War god is taller than any mountain.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 6, 2016 ---

Of course he isn't naturally immune to lightning, he is made of metal. His metal body is a good conductor of electricity which would fry his circuits and system, I've said that many times.

But the point is that Wahl created a system in his body to counter the effects of electricity... he explained that in the very panel that you posted above.


Read the panel you posted again: Wahl said he devised a way to convert lightning into energy.

That means that Wahl should have had no problem to convert Red Lightning into something more powerful he can generate.

But did that happen? No.

Because the lightning overloaded his body for whatever reason, which ultimately led to his own death.

That means that if you take his lightning immunity away, his durability is crap.

And again, saying his AI didn't recognize the form of lightning is just complete bullshit.

Hades, Ajeel, and Mard Geer may not have had a weakness, but my argument still stands.

It was their first time seeing Natsu's, Erza's, and Gray's attacks.

Therefore, they were so surprised and got caught off guard that they couldn't defend themselves and were defeated.


^

You see how stupid this sounds? And I'm not the one arguing for this... People need to quit making excuses and blaming his AI system for Wahl's own fault.

Does going into his Third Seal form mean he is at full power?

No, it doesn't.


Gray had demon marks when he fought Invel back a few chapters... at best, Gray made a few scrapes on Invel.

Gray was going base form in the recent chapter and mauled Invel.


See what I mean here?

Please, don't tell me somebody is going full power when they really aren't.

That's just pure bias to downplay a character

Again, Wall is naturally weak to lightning.
Why is it bs? Wall himself stated that he couldn't analyze red lightning.

Spoiler

I didn't say they all didn't have weaknesses.
1) Mard has a weakness, and he recognized it. He doesn't have the ability to create a defense for it though, and so was defeated when Gray hit him.
2) Hades had no weaknesses, and his loss was attributed to his heart being destroyed and the Tenrou Tree being restored.
3) Ajeel's weakness isn't even to normal swords, and they never even scratched him. It took Erza an armor that can dispel magic to take him down.
4) Wall has a weakness. He recognized it, and created a defense against that weakness. Laxus found a way to exploit that weakness with a special type of lightning, one that Wall did not recognize and couldn't create a defense against. None of the people you mentioned have cases similar to Wall vs Laxus. If anything, Wall is ahead of everyone you mentioned in that he actually took the time to prepare for the event of facing someone with lightning.

Third Seal is still Bloodman's most powerful form. Gray had a boost with power of feelings. His demon form would likely still be stronger than his base.

 

[Nemispelled]

Again, Wall is naturally weak to lightning.
Why is it bs? Wall himself stated that he couldn't analyze red lightning.

How could he not analyze Red Lightning?

He could analyze all of Laxus' yellow lightning and Ichiya's weak lightning.

Red Lightning was never described to be a supernatural type of lightning.

It is simply lightning that exceeds lightning itself.

In other words, Red Lightning killed Wahl just by its sheer power and shockwave.

It was Laxus' special form of lightning that was overloaded with charged volts enough to cancel out Wahl's immunity, that's all.


And the moment that Laxus negated Wahl's immunity to lightning, Wahl was utterly destroyed and shattered into scrap metal.

That's the point. Take Wahl's immunity away and he is vulnerable to the most basic attacks.

I didn't say they all didn't have weaknesses.
1) Mard has a weakness, and he recognized it. He doesn't have the ability to create a defense for it though, and so was defeated when Gray hit him.
2) Hades had no weaknesses, and his loss was attributed to his heart being destroyed and the Tenrou Tree being restored.
3) Ajeel's weakness isn't even to normal swords, and they never even scratched him. It took Erza an armor that can dispel magic to hurt him.

Wall has a weakness, and created a defense against that weakness. Laxus found a way to exploit that weakness with a special type of lightning. None of the people you mentioned have cases similar to Wall vs Laxus. If anything, Wall is ahead of everyone you mentioned in that he actually took the time to prepare for the event of facing someone with lightning.

I don't care to get off-topic with what you're discussing.

The point is that Wahl failing to "analyze" Red Lightning is not an excuse to say that his durability is high.

Wahl's own fault lies in the fact that he couldn't take a spell that exceeds lightning.

It wasn't the properties of Red Lightning that defeated Wahl, it was the sheer power.

It's as simple as that, Wahl can make all the excuses he wants.

The fact still stands that he was beaten by an element that he was supposed to be 100% immune to.

And that equates to crap durability.

Third Seal is still Bloodman's most powerful form. Gray had a decent boost in power of feelings (those feelings being darkness based, instead of nakama). His demon form would likely still be stronger than his base.

Alright, so you think Bloodman is going full power right? Is that what you are trying to tell me?

That a full power Bloodman is not even coming close to killing Rogue.

I don't know why you are arguing for the opposite when it is plain obvious that Bloodman is going nowhere near full power.

His form doesn't mean anything.

He is toying around with Rogue as much as Wahl is toying around with Minerva.