Because if we operate under the assumption that Angel is logically way less durable than Brandish, then I don't see how Urano Metria is a big threat to Brandish. Taking into account Lucy's growth here ever since the O6 arc; even if Lucy improved enormously, Brandish is also enormously superior to O6 Angel. Urano Metria might be her top spell, but it isn't taking out a spriggan; I hope she shows something that might take out one.
Again, Brandish has
NOTHING to do with this. Replace Brandish with Juvia here and we could have an argument.
Maginification might expand the attack to its state pre-reduction, but it also can maginify anything to any size. As you very well know, Brandish can enlarge herself, or Happy, or Natsu's head; it's heavily implied she can do so with an attack too. The images told me that the attack Lucy tanked was bigger than the one she threw at Brandish, but I might be wrong. As you well mention the area covered in water was already rather large pre reduction so you may be well right here.
But you see, I need
proof that it expanded past its original state. As of now I see no reason to believe it.
Yeah, I don't deny Lucy having top-end durability, but I don't recall Juvia's being necessarily weak; especially because of water body, which is immune to many things, and I consider it part of durability/defense.
If someone bypasses her water body then her durability has to come into play, and it has never shown to be overly high.
Throughout their fight, I didn't get the feeling that they were being capable of controlling their bodies, and hardly their minds at all. I saw them serious and going all out. My impression is that at some given moment they gathered their wills and took advantage of that moment to commit suicide. Also, I might be wrong but that was my impression.
The fact that they could even commit suicide indicates that they still had control of their bodies, to some extent.
Well technically, in chapter 497 things don't go too well for Gray as Invel shows he can attack faster, and stronger. First of all Invel prevents Gray from attacking and attacks first, thing which Gray didn't expect at all, and is sent at great speed towards a wall (which he destroys upon impact), then he takes 6-7 attacks in one same vignette and Gray is clearly overwhelmed both by Invel and by his cold, which is actually managing to affect him.
In the next chapter we see a Gray who can hardly attack, only defend; and an unfazed Invel by Gray's ice attacks, which can be broken easily by the spriggan.
It is only when Gray goes DeS that he seems to hold the upper hand; he attacks Invel and the attack effectively lands (he puts a scratch on him and makes him bleed). However, it is then when Invel gets more serious and can undo Gray's spells and redirect them into what seems a blizzard.
So, I don't see where you see Gray having the upper hand really.
Gray injures Invel and Invel uses Ice Lock. We don't know how the fight would have gone without it but one thing is for sure, Gray had the upper hand right before Ice Lock was used.
The unusual thing, IMO, is that there's such a difference between a 'regular' bloodlusted BASE Gray and a DeS Gray. As I pointed out in my explanation of the battle events, even DeS Gray couldn't take on Invel, but when he saw Juvia died, then Gray, even in base, was so superior to the spriggan that it does not make much sense to me, especially considering that bloodlust should not necessarily make characters phisically stronger, or with stronger spells, only with higher MP and pressure (although I think it's been implied and even mentioned over times that feelings=power in Fairy Tail, so I'd understand Gray got a power boost to defeat a spriggan but not to massively overcome a spriggan). I do believe Gray surpassed his limits with his rage, but again, that was my interpretation.
Sure it does. Bloodlust heightens the users stats to their limits, its what brings out their full power. When they do not have bloodlust they fight conservatively with their power but when it kicks in they just go all out from the start without using intelligence (sometimes bloodlust can even be bad for that reason). The fact that Grays hair was "super saiyan" with energy flowing out of him shows that. Bloodlust is basically what you claim is POF, except I'm still not claiming that it makes the person surpass their own limits.
Not in such exact words, but I recall some characters, maybe even Erza, saying feelings = power. Or maybe it was Mavis during the GMG. I don't know, the thing is, we all know PoF = powerup of the like of Second Origin, though maybe just temporary. You can interpret that it boosts one's abilities to their limits or that they surpass such limits; but it's the same with third origin: does third origin allow you to surpass your limits, or does it only boost your powers to your potential limits? Both would be correct, since Chelia's powers were boosted A LOT by means of TO, but then again, she only managed to get the power she'd eventually have in a future.
Feelings being power is not the same thing as feelings breaking the limits of your own power. TO makes you surpass your current limits by giving you realized potential, POF doesn't do anything like that. At best POF heightens your power to their
CURRENT limits (note that I am saying current, not potential).
It is worse writing to me that Natsu can oneshot a spriggan or that Gray can go from being overwhelmed to being massively superior in a matter of a chapter, that Gray and Juvia could trade blows makes a lot of sense to me because otherwise they would've been incompatible to train for one entire year together if their gap in power was too great.
You could train with someone who is vastly superior to you. Acnologia could train with Romeo if he wanted to, I don't see why any gap in power would prevent that. Its not like they trained by fighting each other with intent to kill.
It was safe to assume growth ratio had treated the main cast the same way, but as you well mention one can't simply assume so seeing as Natsu can now casually oneshot spriggans. Even if base Gray is one tier above Juvia, they're still on a level where they can fight; and the result will be exactly the one seen during their battle: Juvia can land some blows, but eventually Gray will easily defeat her.
Base Gray at full power is vastly above Juvia at full power.
No just no. During the first part of their battle, Invel was toying with Gray, easily defeating any ice creation or any blow Gray tried. When he awakened DeS, he took Invel by surprise and managed to attack him once; after that Invel was on guard and Gray was powerless.
How was Gray powerless? Can you show me where Invel makes Gray powerless when he activates DeS?
Then, Gray defeated Invel with a LOT of ease, unjustifiable ease if you ask me. Gray had natural resistance to Invel's magic yet Invel was managing to affect his body temperature; similarly Invel had resistance to Gray's magic, seen when he undoes a spell in DeS mode and creates a blizzard off it.
If Gray did not have the resistance factor then he would have outright lost. Invel doesn't have resistance to Grays magic, he simply overpowered it with his own magic (which is also basically ice).
I see, yeah you have a point here, but then Juvia couldn't harm him with attacks like water slicer, which doesn't make much sense to me if he's not absolutely intangible.
He can pass through Water Slicer because of how thin it is. An attack that covers the entirety of his MBP body makes it so that he cannot avoid it.
Lucy never overwhelmed Brandish in cqc... Also Lucy does not pride herself in cqc, Lucy is not Erza. She's improved, yeah, but she's never been good at cqc, the most she could do is lucy kick, now she's good at it but not proficient IMO.
Sure she did. This very chapter. She attacks, Brandish kicks her away. She goes back in CQC with Scorpios help and gets multiple hits in, Brandish shrinks her and she goes Cancer and cuts her up some more, Brandish reverts her back to OG size and she hits her with a magic spell. Lucy won two CQC exchanges while Brandish won one. Lucy focuses on CQC now, she even thought she could spar with Natsu, she definitely prides herself on her CQC now. She uses her spirits to stay back and support
HER whereas Pre-TS it was the opposite.
I actually think of Bramdna as stronger than the average here; but cqc is not his forte tbh. Gajeel was doing much better even in base, although he couldn't just touch him.
Yeah I definitely disagree but thats for another debate. In regards to CQC, Gajeel was not doing much better.
The second panel shows that they were fighting CQC and are clearly an even match. Plus, Bradman is overwhelming Rogue and Rogue is no slouch in CQC.
No he wouldn't because of NLF, but really, water slicer was not cutting Keyes. Your assumption is very valid, I don't think he's got absolute intangibility either, but still it's better intangibility than 90% of characters can probably fight.
Why would NLF affect his intangibility? Thats like saying Acno would be able to see Jacob because of NLF Stealth. Thats not quite how it works. Most characters could fight it. In just the 9DG pretty much everyone except maybe Torafusa can hurt/kill him. Although he does have to harden himself eventually so Torafusa could take that opportunity.
Yeah but then again we fall into the same argument: why are 12 mages of another continent superior to the strongest mage in Ishgar? Does Ishgar have an innate lack of talent/potential? And if there were an arc where another continent is introduced and there are mages who can make the spriggan look like kids, then again, what's wrong with Ishgar? Is it a weak continent for any reason in particular? Bcs not even the one appointed as the strongest mage, Hyberion, could even keep up with a spriggan.
Thats not really true. Ishgar has at least a handful of Spriggan level characters themselves and at least two of their former residence (Irene and Serena) left them for Alvarez. Plus Alvarez has a lot more people in it by nature so naturally more strong characters would appear among them. Its moreso the fact that GoI aren't the strongest characters in Ishgar.
