Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Arjuna]

Jellal's GC on Neinhart is most confusing.He was sweating after it and i think everyone should agree that it was an overkill.The amount of energy needed to disperse clouds in the sky is easily large mountain level to small island level.It has been called outlier.I agree too.An attack on the level of island busting fails to kill Neinhart is simply unbelievable.I think i should put it at mountain level
@Coné

 

[Seven777]

Nienheart doesn't have bad durability. The same punch that took out Nienheart took out Jacob. This was from the same dude that one shot Bluenote. Natsu one shotting someone doesn't mean thy have bad durability.

Jellal used an attack that was super powered it covered the whole sky. His Grand chariot has never done that on the other occasions he used it. Nienheart to our knowledge doesn't have bad durability because both of the times he was taken out it was due to a super power spell by a powerful opponent.

Wasnt a powerful spell, it was a nameless fire punch, both Azir and Jacob laughed attacks like that off
The guy had no durability feats and when he got the chance to prove that his durability wasnt totally worthless in his second fight with Natsu, his durability feats actually got worse, and he was stronger in his comeback too.
Bottom line is that Natsu felt it necessary to use both Flame Dragon King Mode as well as Demolition Fist to beat Jacob, cleanly establishing his durability above that of Ikusatsunagi, who just got an ordinary Demolition Fist to the head, while against Neinhart he only used a nameless fire punch, assuming Jacob's durability is average among spriggans, this puts Neinhart's significantly lower than normal

 

[EdwardRictofin]

Not exactly, these two feats aren't even comparable in the slightest, consider the fact that Jellal had to use a named technique to take down Neinhart while Natsu barely exerted any effort, I think that speaks for itself..
I'll give you two examples here.
Elfman vs Bacchus in the GMG and Sting vs Bacchus.
Elfman had to use Lizardman to take on Bacchus and squeeze out a narrow win, while Sting took out Bacchus with an unnamed blow, that's exactly the same comparison here.
Or Cana vs Brandish and Lucy vs Brandish
Lucy had to use three Star Dresses to fight Brandish and Brandish wasn't serious the whole time, while Cana took out Brandish with a karate chop...see the inconsistency here?
Using all that's provided on the table in front of you to establish feats just doesn't work in this scenario...if that was the case then people should just stop calling Red Lightning an asspull like they are..

So the attack used on bluenotestinger wasnt named buy the one used one fodder was. So using your logic, the small one used on fodder was stronger.

Okie dokie

 

[M3J]

I wanna know who's stronger now - Natsu or Gildarts. Both one-shot Bluenote, though if Gildarts didn't stay stagnant, he should be stronger by miles still. I still refuse to accept Natsu being stronger than Laxus without clear proof, though as END he should logically be stronger given END's hype.

What I'm confused about though, is END's hype if Natsu was just a little child. Maybe it's a Majin Buu sort of shit going on? Maybe END was someone else or an adult Natsu, but Zeref did some sort of magic trick to make END a kid Natsu with no memories of who he was? Otherwise kid/baby END being hyped as a challenge for Zeref is scary as hell, and he'd probably be able to beat Acnologia if his powers were developed naturally.

 

[NeoChrome]

If Zeref needs an unlimited source of magic just to fight on par with Acno, then END shouldn't be touching him

 

[M3J]

END is hyped as stronger than Zeref, no?

 

[Static]

He is hyped to be able to kill Zeref, not be stronger than him. Of course, the latter is a possibility too.

 

[extremebegins123]

the level of Erza is not that the fight against Ajeel. She did not wear the red pants, which is where we see its full potential.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Natsu beating Neinhart is a legitimate feat. It's like saying Jellal's GC isn't legitimate. All it means is enchanted Neinhart cannot take the offense Natsu had to offer at that particular time.

Jellal's feat is legitimate until he has shown to be inconsistent. In other words, if he uses Sema on someone like Marin and fails to kill him, then yes, his feat against Neinhart cannot be taken for granted.

This isn't something you call illegitimate in the context of FT powers/ablities... this is your view on Mashima's writing.

Aren't we all making our own views of Hiro Mashima's writing?

You do, but not in the context of power levels.. It's as simple as this - define power in the world of Fairy Tail. What you're doing here is nothing more than taking out what you don't like or what you think power should mean. Fact is Hiro defines everything in his world, and we create fan-made power scales to describe what we've read.

Power is simply based off of a character's stats. I don't think I'm being unfair here. In fact, I honestly think you're just in denial. If this were Laxus, you would say his feat is questionable. However, nothing is questionable when it comes to Natsu, right?

Lmao. A lot of feats come from plot moving. For Hiro what does he make first - the plot or the power levels? Or are they intertwined? The chicken comes first or the egg?

It's not up to you to tell which feat isn't made for plot or not - in this thread. You probably need to make a pseudo-power rankings thread so you can adjust the FT verse as you see fit.

Actually, there aren't that many feats that come from plot convenience. It just so happens that a select few do. I don't see the connection between your analogy and what is being discussed so I can't give you my answer.

I don't see why plot can't be discussed in this thread. Plot has everything to do with a skew in power levels which is exactly what this thread is made for. It is a discussion based on power levels. Actually, the only reason I'm arguing about plot here is because others brought it up.

On Tenrou (tree restored), with PoF, and Mavis using that power to cast the spell. FS is a defensive spell, which more or less froze an instant in time. That's how Mavis described it. You see the island get destroyed by Acnologia, so in effect a copy was 'saved' in the Fairy Sphere spell, and then returned 7 years later. This spell, as far as I could tell, did not block or deflect Acno's roar. It's essentially a hax.

Only if Mavis is there can FS be cast. So if the thread has her, and Acnologia just plays around like he did on Tenrou, then FS could get cast. If Acno isn't messing around people will drop within an instant like what happened to Gildarts or God Serena.

Okay, if you want to be selective about word choice, then call it a stasis. That still doesn't change the topic of discussion. You admit that it was PoF and that it was "hax". So answer this question. FT vs. Acnologia. Who wins? I don't want an answer like "Fairy Sphere could get cast". I want an honest and straightforward answer. In fact, I will even allow a tie as an option.

Laxus' win is up for debate, because it depends on how you interpret the effectiveness of Red Lightning on Wall. Note this has nothing to do with whether or not Laxus can beat Wall - he can.

Just because there is contention doesn't mean it's illegitimate...

I believe I already said this but I'll say it again in case you missed it. I agree Laxus can beat Wahl.

I'm not questioning the legitimacy about whether Laxus can beat Wahl or not. I'm specifically focusing on Red Lightning itself as well as the difficulty.

Yes I agree, but it just means that Hiro didn't hype as well as he did with those characters. Initially you blamed other characters ruining the 12's hype, so you didn't account for Hiro's strike rate with hype. Laxus already had Spriggan-beating hype on him, and Natsu was flaunting ridiculous power since the timeskip.

I did account for the inconsistency in the author's writing. But that in turn affects the characters in the series. So I will stick to my opinion that certain characters have ruined the Spriggan 12's hype.

---

See I was going to not post until I saw this. We debated the Red Lightning topic and I gave you an explanation, so don't say nobody gave you one, you just refused to accept the explanation given.

I never said I didn't get an explanation. I got many of them.

If you re-read my post, I said "I never got an explanation as to how it wouldn't be considered Power of Friendship". That last part makes a big difference. Basically, I am saying that the explanations I received didn't prove a thing.

 

[Brandish μ]

You can have the last word on this... it's not really pleasant discussion...

Jellal's feat is legitimate until he has shown to be inconsistent. In other words, if he uses Sema on someone like Marin and fails to kill him, then yes, his feat against Neinhart cannot be taken for granted.

So what is wrong with Natsu's? He dropped Neinhart, end of story.

Jellal's GC was at least enough to beat Neinhart. Doesn't mean GC = Natsu's punch, just that they both achieved the same. More than likely, this is attributed to Neinharts poor physicals.

Aren't we all making our own views of Hiro Mashima's writing?

In the PR thread it's almost always about what happens (feats), what you think is going to happen (eg potential powers like DF), what is hyped (eg Gray's trump card) etc. How Mashima writes a fight, like it's choreography or explanations etc, is largely excluded in a thread like this.

Power is simply based off of a character's stats. I don't think I'm being unfair here. In fact, I honestly think you're just in denial. If this were Laxus, you would say his feat is questionable. However, nothing is questionable when it comes to Natsu, right?

And how do you deduce stats? By observing feats of power in FT. You don't acknowledge Mashima's definition of power, so you are being unfair. This isn't denial lol. Questionable? More like up for debate about how he won. Natsu dropped Neinhart and Jacob. So it's easier with Natsu. Gajeel needed to use Bloodmans MBP's. Gray used a ton of emotional power (legit) and used Invel's ice to beat Invel. Out of the 4, both Natsu/Laxus won completely under their own power.

Actually, there aren't that many feats that come from plot convenience. It just so happens that a select few do. I don't see the connection between your analogy and what is being discussed so I can't give you my answer.

I don't see why plot can't be discussed in this thread. Plot has everything to do with a skew in power levels which is exactly what this thread is made for. It is a discussion based on power levels. Actually, the only reason I'm arguing about plot here is because others brought it up.

Plot moving. Feats and fights happen because plot needs to move. I am not surprised you don't see it tbh.

Again, I don't think it's right to create a power level based on FT and then decide what you think is plot or not, and thus what a feat is or not. You don't write FT. You don't create what happens in the manga. Thus, what happens in the manga is actually what happens. It is technically an observation of the world. The moment you want to decide if plot plays too much of a hand is when you start to show what you dislike in the manga. The power levels you would then make from this 'cut up FT' would therefore be a power ranking of this faux-FT... it's essentially fanfiction.

Note this is different from not being able to use a feat because of poor information or ridiculous inconsistency. There is discretion. But if you're going to deny PoF for example because you don't like it, then lol. That's just plain rude to Hiro imo.

Okay, if you want to be selective about word choice, then call it a stasis. That still doesn't change the topic of discussion. You admit that it was PoF and that it was "hax". So answer this question. FT vs. Acnologia. Who wins? I don't want an answer like "Fairy Sphere could get cast". I want an honest and straightforward answer. In fact, I will even allow a tie as an option.

I am not being selective seriously that is how it's explained. It can defend Acno's roar via a hax, it doesn't actually have the physical power to stop it. You do realise that PoF is actually power right? Hint it's in the acronym. I gave my answer already in the previous post, you can read that one. If you need more, I am happy to do it.

I believe I already said this but I'll say it again in case you missed it. I agree Laxus can beat Wahl.

I'm not questioning the legitimacy about whether Laxus can beat Wahl or not. I'm specifically focusing on Red Lightning itself as well as the difficulty.

That is why it is debatable just how much stronger Laxus is than Wall. Just like when a slayer advantage gets a win, or someone uses donated power. And it's fine for these things to exist. Heck God Serena's PL has unknowns about it - just how strong are the GoI/Jura really? You can never get the accuracy you want, because it's a manga.

The most "plot convenient" part of Laxus' fight was Jutsu Shiki anyway. But apparently he can make one mid-battle...

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

You can have the last word on this... it's not really pleasant discussion...



So what is wrong with Natsu's? He dropped Neinhart, end of story.

Jellal's GC was at least enough to beat Neinhart. Doesn't mean GC = Natsu's punch, just that they both achieved the same. More than likely, this is attributed to Neinharts poor physicals.

Well, I wouldn't call it the end of story yet because if we look deeper into what actually happened, it should be obvious that Natsu's power level is inconsistent. The problem I have with Natsu is that he resorted to FDKM and used an FDK spell to defeat Jacob. Yet, he one-shotted Neinhart casually. It doesn't matter if he is the weakest Spriggan because this is an Enchanted version we're talking about. Just look at the difference in power between a Berserker and an Alvarez Soldier. Do you realize the effects of Eileen's magic? We even have confirmation of his superior magic power based on the fact that he was unaffected by Brandish's magic. So I don't care if anybody argues Jacob has better durability than Base Neinhart because he is he is definitely on par or inferior to Enhanced Neinhart.

On the outside, it may seem like Jellal and Natsu shared the same feat. But in reality, they didn't. Let's set the record straight here. Jellal took down Jacob with the use of Grand Chariot, a medium-level spell, while being in a state of anger. This tells us that Jellal was going all out and not holding back. So how does it make sense for an enhanced version of him to be defeated casually by a low-level spell? Surely one of them is inconsistent. And its not Jellal considering he only has 1 feat. Natsu, on the other hand, has 2 feats. Both of which are somewhat contradictory. Your explanation that Neinhart has poor physicals is one thing. But him being enchanted is a whole separate topic.

In the PR thread it's almost always about what happens (feats), what you think is going to happen (eg potential powers like DF), what is hyped (eg Gray's trump card) etc. How Mashima writes a fight, like it's choreography or explanations etc, is largely excluded in a thread like this.

Okay, well if you say so, then I will stop talking about plot in this thread. But I just want to let it be known that this is an important subject to discuss especially when it is being used to skew power rankings. It should be obvious at this point that a character's power can drastically change for the sake of moving on with the plot.

And how do you deduce stats? By observing feats of power in FT. You don't acknowledge Mashima's definition of power, so you are being unfair. This isn't denial lol. Questionable? More like up for debate about how he won. Natsu dropped Neinhart and Jacob. So it's easier with Natsu. Gajeel needed to use Bloodmans MBP's. Gray used a ton of emotional power (legit) and used Invel's ice to beat Invel. Out of the 4, both Natsu/Laxus won completely under their own power.

You're right that we determine a character's power based on their feats. But what you still don't seem to acknowledge is the fact that this is all dependent on the consistency of those feats. Just because a character won due to plot, that doesn't automatically make that their true power. Why? Because their other feats don't agree. Just for your information, I do criticize Gajeel's feat against Bloodman as well. In my opinion, he illegitimately won that fight. As for Gray, we've been down this path many times so I won't bring it up again. All I have to say is this: Whatever you say about Gray is the same for Jellal.

Plot moving. Feats and fights happen because plot needs to move. I am not surprised you don't see it tbh.

Again, I don't think it's right to create a power level based on FT and then decide what you think is plot or not, and thus what a feat is or not. You don't write FT. You don't create what happens in the manga. Thus, what happens in the manga is actually what happens. It is technically an observation of the world. The moment you want to decide if plot plays too much of a hand is when you start to show what you dislike in the manga. The power levels you would then make from this 'cut up FT' would therefore be a power ranking of this faux-FT... it's essentially fanfiction.

Note this is different from not being able to use a feat because of poor information or ridiculous inconsistency. There is discretion. But if you're going to deny PoF for example because you don't like it, then lol. That's just plain rude to Hiro imo.

I don't decide what is considered plot. I just analyze the fights and tell exactly the way it is. In fact, it is of no use to me to decide which feats I like and which ones I don't. I don't have a favorite character here. And even with characters I like, I still criticize them of their power levels if their feats are inconsistent. Every character has won due to PoF or plot. Some more than others. And those feats shouldn't be counted otherwise you would be left with two possible power levels for a certain character (which doesn't make sense). If you are offended because you think I am specifically hating on Natsu, I'm not.

Expect me to ignore a feat from a specific character in this week's chapter if what is shown so far is true.

I am not being selective seriously that is how it's explained. It can defend Acno's roar via a hax, it doesn't actually have the physical power to stop it. You do realise that PoF is actually power right? Hint it's in the acronym. I gave my answer already in the previous post, you can read that one. If you need more, I am happy to do it.

Okay, so I take it that you label the fight as a Draw? I disagree. Acnologia would beat Fairy Tail without much difficulty.

That is why it is debatable just how much stronger Laxus is than Wall. Just like when a slayer advantage gets a win, or someone uses donated power. And it's fine for these things to exist. Heck God Serena's PL has unknowns about it - just how strong are the GoI/Jura really? You can never get the accuracy you want, because it's a manga.

The most "plot convenient" part of Laxus' fight was Jutsu Shiki anyway. But apparently he can make one mid-battle...

I never said the difference in Laxus and Wahl's power wasn't debatable. I agree that we don't know exactly how much stronger Laxus is than Wahl. But again. That is irrelevant. I'm only talking about Red Lightning. And that isn't debatable.

Jutsu Shiki was for plot convenience. I agree. And that is why I question whether Laxus would be able to replicate such a feat again or not.

 

[EdwardRictofin]

Well, I wouldn't call it the end of story yet because if we look deeper into what actually happened, it should be obvious that Natsu's power level is inconsistent. The problem I have with Natsu is that he resorted to FDKM and used an FDK spell to defeat Jacob. Yet, he one-shotted Neinhart casually. It doesn't matter if he is the weakest Spriggan because this is an Enchanted version we're talking about. Just look at the difference in power between a Berserker and an Alvarez Soldier. Do you realize the effects of Eileen's magic? We even have confirmation of his superior magic power based on the fact that he was unaffected by Brandish's magic. So I don't care if anybody argues Jacob has better durability than Base Neinhart because he is he is definitely on par or inferior to Enhanced Neinhart.

On the outside, it may seem like Jellal and Natsu shared the same feat. But in reality, they didn't. Let's set the record straight here. Jellal took down Jacob with the use of Grand Chariot, a medium-level spell, while being in a state of anger. This tells us that Jellal was going all out and not holding back. So how does it make sense for an enhanced version of him to be defeated casually by a low-level spell? Surely one of them is inconsistent. And its not Jellal considering he only has 1 feat. Natsu, on the other hand, has 2 feats. Both of which are somewhat contradictory. Your explanation that Neinhart has poor physicals is one thing. But him being enchanted is a whole separate topic.



Okay, well if you say so, then I will stop talking about plot in this thread. But I just want to let it be known that this is an important subject to discuss especially when it is being used to skew power rankings. It should be obvious at this point that a character's power can drastically change for the sake of moving on with the plot.



You're right that we determine a character's power based on their feats. But what you still don't seem to acknowledge is the fact that this is all dependent on the consistency of those feats. Just because a character won due to plot, that doesn't automatically make that their true power. Why? Because their other feats don't agree. Just for your information, I do criticize Gajeel's feat against Bloodman as well. In my opinion, he illegitimately won that fight. As for Gray, we've been down this path many times so I won't bring it up again. All I have to say is this: Whatever you say about Gray is the same for Jellal.



I don't decide what is considered plot. I just analyze the fights and tell exactly the way it is. In fact, it is of no use to me to decide which feats I like and which ones I don't. I don't have a favorite character here. And even with characters I like, I still criticize them of their power levels if their feats are inconsistent. Every character has won due to PoF or plot. Some more than others. And those feats shouldn't be counted otherwise you would be left with two possible power levels for a certain character (which doesn't make sense). If you are offended because you think I am specifically hating on Natsu, I'm not.

Expect me to ignore a feat from a specific character in this week's chapter if what is shown so far is true.



Okay, so I take it that you label the fight as a Draw? I disagree. Acnologia would beat Fairy Tail without much difficulty.



I never said the difference in Laxus and Wahl's power wasn't debatable. I agree that we don't know exactly how much stronger Laxus is than Wahl. But again. That is irrelevant. I'm only talking about Red Lightning. And that isn't debatable.

Jutsu Shiki was for plot convenience. I agree. And that is why I question whether Laxus would be able to replicate such a feat again or not.

You just hadn't let yourself admit that Neinhart was weak from the jump. He can be enchanted a million times over and nothing about his durability changes.

@Brandish Natsu taking out Neinhart isn't really a big deal. Get over it.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

You just hadn't let yourself admit that Neinhart was weak from the jump. He can be enchanted a million times over and nothing about his durability changes.

@Brandish Natsu taking out Neinhart isn't really a big deal. Get over it.

In Fairy Tail, durability is associated with magic power. So an increase in magic power is technically an increase in durability. This is demonstrated by the fact that the Alvarez Soldiers are one-shottable but not when they became Berserkers. Even Erza's attacks were shown to be less effective on them.

 

[Seven777]

Well, I wouldn't call it the end of story yet because if we look deeper into what actually happened, it should be obvious that Natsu's power level is inconsistent. The problem I have with Natsu is that he resorted to FDKM and used an FDK spell to defeat Jacob. Yet, he one-shotted Neinhart casually. It doesn't matter if he is the weakest Spriggan because this is an Enchanted version we're talking about. Just look at the difference in power between a Berserker and an Alvarez Soldier. Do you realize the effects of Eileen's magic? We even have confirmation of his superior magic power based on the fact that he was unaffected by Brandish's magic. So I don't care if anybody argues Jacob has better durability than Base Neinhart because he is he is definitely on par or inferior to Enhanced Neinhart.

On the outside, it may seem like Jellal and Natsu shared the same feat. But in reality, they didn't. Let's set the record straight here. Jellal took down Jacob with the use of Grand Chariot, a medium-level spell, while being in a state of anger. This tells us that Jellal was going all out and not holding back. So how does it make sense for an enhanced version of him to be defeated casually by a low-level spell? Surely one of them is inconsistent. And its not Jellal considering he only has 1 feat. Natsu, on the other hand, has 2 feats. Both of which are somewhat contradictory. Your explanation that Neinhart has poor physicals is one thing. But him being enchanted is a whole separate topic.



Okay, well if you say so, then I will stop talking about plot in this thread. But I just want to let it be known that this is an important subject to discuss especially when it is being used to skew power rankings. It should be obvious at this point that a character's power can drastically change for the sake of moving on with the plot.



You're right that we determine a character's power based on their feats. But what you still don't seem to acknowledge is the fact that this is all dependent on the consistency of those feats. Just because a character won due to plot, that doesn't automatically make that their true power. Why? Because their other feats don't agree. Just for your information, I do criticize Gajeel's feat against Bloodman as well. In my opinion, he illegitimately won that fight. As for Gray, we've been down this path many times so I won't bring it up again. All I have to say is this: Whatever you say about Gray is the same for Jellal.



I don't decide what is considered plot. I just analyze the fights and tell exactly the way it is. In fact, it is of no use to me to decide which feats I like and which ones I don't. I don't have a favorite character here. And even with characters I like, I still criticize them of their power levels if their feats are inconsistent. Every character has won due to PoF or plot. Some more than others. And those feats shouldn't be counted otherwise you would be left with two possible power levels for a certain character (which doesn't make sense). If you are offended because you think I am specifically hating on Natsu, I'm not.

Expect me to ignore a feat from a specific character in this week's chapter if what is shown so far is true.



Okay, so I take it that you label the fight as a Draw? I disagree. Acnologia would beat Fairy Tail without much difficulty.



I never said the difference in Laxus and Wahl's power wasn't debatable. I agree that we don't know exactly how much stronger Laxus is than Wahl. But again. That is irrelevant. I'm only talking about Red Lightning. And that isn't debatable.

Jutsu Shiki was for plot convenience. I agree. And that is why I question whether Laxus would be able to replicate such a feat again or not.

Neinhart didnt get the same enhancement the Berserker soldiers did, so no, his durability isnt on par or better than Jacobs while enhanced, it is significantly worse.
Natsu's power isnt inconsistent and neither is Neinhart's durability, the guy has never tanked anything, at this point it would be more inconsistent for him not tot get one shotted

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Neinhart didnt get the same enhancement the Berserker soldiers did, so no, his durability isnt on par or better than Jacobs while enhanced, it is significantly worse.
Natsu's power isnt inconsistent and neither is Neinhart's durability, the guy has never tanked anything, at this point it would be more inconsistent for him not tot get one shotted

It doesn't have to be the same enchantment as the Berserkers. The fact is that Neinhart's stats still increased due to Eileen's enchantment. The question we should be asking is how much. Based on the aura coming off of Neinhart and his passive ability to negate Brandish's Mass Manipulation Magic, I would say he was enhanced by a significant amount. So your claim that Neinhart's stats are worse than Jacob has absolutely no basis whatsoever.

I never said Neinhart's durability was inconsistent. But Natsu's power is. How would Neinhart not getting one-shotted be inconsistent? He was enchanted. If anything, him being one-shotted is inconsistent. Your logic, like many others, is backwards to the point I have nothing else to say.

 

[Seven777]

It doesn't have to be the same enchantment as the Berserkers. The fact is that Neinhart's stats still increased due to Eileen's enchantment. The question we should be asking is how much. Based on the aura coming off of Neinhart and his passive ability to negate Brandish's Mass Manipulation Magic, I would say he was enhanced by a significant amount.

And nothing says that the raising includes durability, and even if it does, we still already know its not enough to tank a basic iron fist.
How much were Neinharts abilities raised? Who knows, enough to make him immune to hax, thats about it though, the fact that Neinhart was afraid of facing Erza without his Historia makes it clear how weak he was without them to begin with.

So your claim that Neinhart's stats are worse than Jacob has absolutely no basis whatsoever.

Oh but it does have basis, Natsu one shotting him with an attack weaker than what he used on Jacob is already more than enough evidence.

I never said Neinhart's durability was inconsistent. But Natsu's power is. How would Neinhart not getting one-shotted be inconsistent? He was enchanted. If anything, him being one-shotted is inconsistent. Your logic, like many others, is backwards to the point I have nothing else to say.

It would be inconsistent because so far Neinhart has shown that he cant handle any attack no matter how weak, so Neinhart not getting one shot would be inconsistent with the durability feats he has shown thus far.
As for Natsu's power, what is inconsistent about it? Neinhart has already been established as a character weak enough to be one shotted(as shown by his fight with Jellal) Natsu being able to do the same (albeit with less effort) is nothing particularly astonishing

 

[M3J]

He is hyped to be able to kill Zeref, not be stronger than him. Of course, the latter is a possibility too.

Well, in order to be able to kill Zeref, END has to be strong enough otherwise how can he last long enough to be able to kill him?

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

And nothing says that the raising includes durability, and even if it does, we still already know its not enough to tank a basic iron fist.
How much were Neinharts abilities raised? Who knows, enough to make him immune to hax, thats about it though, the fact that Neinhart was afraid of facing Erza without his Historia makes it clear how weak he was without them to begin with.

I already explained the connection between magic power and durability, so I won't repeat myself. And the reason why Neinhart's defense is not enough to tank a casual spell from Natsu is because of PoF, therein lies the inconsistency.

It seems you're trying to downplay the enchantment by merely saying "...immune to hax, thats about it though...". Let me ask you this question. What makes someone immune to "hax"? The answer is magic power. You made the claim yourself that Neinhart is weak. If he could negate Brandish's magic, that just shows how much he was actually enhanced.

Neinhart was afraid to face Erza without his Historias because that is his magic... You are essentially saying that he was afraid to fight Erza without magic. Who wouldn't be? How is it fair for Neinhart to fight Erza when she has all her magic spells and he doesn't? It should be common sense that Neinhart isn't a CQC fighter. With that said, I do acknowledge that Neinhart is weak. But not when he is enchanted.

Oh but it does have basis, Natsu one shotting him with an attack weaker than what he used on Jacob is already more than enough evidence.

You keep using the same circular argument. What you're essentially saying is... Natsu one-shotted Enchanted Neinhart so he is strong. Enchanted Neinhart was one-shotted by Natsu so he is weak. How does this provide reasonable proof or evidence?

It would be inconsistent because so far Neinhart has shown that he cant handle any attack no matter how weak, so Neinhart not getting one shot would be inconsistent with the durability feats he has shown thus far.
As for Natsu's power, what is inconsistent about it? Neinhart has already been established as a character weak enough to be one shotted(as shown by his fight with Jellal) Natsu being able to do the same (albeit with less effort) is nothing particularly astonishing

Any attack? You mean only two attacks? Jellal's feat was legitimate because he was angry (hence the environmental change) and he used a higher tier spell. Natsu's was not. So you're technically basing all of this off of Natsu only. That is why you keep using the same circular argument I mentioned above.

Not sure if you read the previous posts but I will repeat myself one more time. Seriously. Natsu resorted to FDKM and an FDK attack against a Spriggan meaning he felt it was necessary in order to win. Keep in mind that Jacob survived with minimal injuries. Then we have Natsu using a casual spell in Base Form to one-shot an Enchanted Spriggan who is at least on the level of Jacob (for the reasons I stated above).

In essence, Natsu defeated two different Spriggans the exact same way but with two completely different power levels. If Natsu could one-shot Enhanced Neinhart, why couldn't he do the same to Jacob in Base Form + Casual Spell? He didn't need to go FDKM or use an FDK spell for that matter. And don't give me the baseless assumption that Jacob's durability is higher because I already gave you the reasons as to why Enchanted Neinhart should have decent stats.

 

[Seven777]

I already explained the connection between magic power and durability, so I won't repeat myself. And the reason why Neinhart's defense is not enough to tank a casual spell from Natsu is because of PoF, therein lies the inconsistency.

You dont need too, i read your explanation of how magic power relates to durability and i simply disagree, Gray doesnt have spriggan level MP, yet his durability is at least as strong as a spriggans likely far stronger.

It seems you're trying to downplay the enchantment by merely saying "...immune to hax, thats about it though...". Let me ask you this question. What makes someone immune to "hax"? The answer is magic power. You made the claim yourself that Neinhart is weak. If he could negate Brandish's magic, that just shows how much he was actually enhanced.

Not at all, i agree, increased magic power could be the reason he is immune to hax, doesnt mean his durability is better than its normally incredibly low level though.

Neinhart was afraid to face Erza without his Historias because that is his magic... You are essentially saying that he was afraid to fight Erza without magic. Who wouldn't be? How is it fair for Neinhart to fight Erza when she has all her magic spells and he doesn't? It should be common sense that Neinhart isn't a CQC fighter. With that said, I do acknowledge that Neinhart is weak. But not when he is enchanted.

Uh....So...? I'm didnt say that Neinahart is weak overall, i said that without his Historia he is incredibly weak, meaning.....without his historia he is incredibly weak. Natsu oneshotted Neinhart without his Historia, Jellal oneshotted Neinhart without his Historia, it is only natural to determine that Neinhart isnt a capable fighter without them and that his durability is fitting for someone who doesnt fight on the front lines.
If we were putting Enhanced Neinhart with God Serena, Bradman and Wahl Historia's at his side i might even say he gives Natsu a harder fight than Jacob, and probably even beats Jellal, but we arent talking about Neinhart with his Historia are we? We are talking about Neinhart on his own, so i dont know why you are bringing up how unfair it is that Erza gets all her skills while Neinhart doesnt, because the very premise of this argument has Neinhart at a disadvantage.

You keep using the same circular argument. What you're essentially saying is... Natsu one-shotted Enchanted Neinhart so he is strong. Enchanted Neinhart was one-shotted by Natsu so he is weak. How does this provide reasonable proof or evidence?

You're the one with the circular argument buddy you are essentially saying, "i think Neinhart is to strong for what actually happened even though it happened". Oh and my argument has never been that Natsu was "strong" just that Neinhart has terrible durability.

Any attack? You mean only two attacks? Jellal's feat was legitimate because he was angry (hence the environmental change) and he used a higher tier spell. Natsu's was not. So you're technically basing all of this off of Natsu only. That is why you keep using the same circular argument I mentioned above.

Oh yeah, two attacks, well then, there isnt anything to complain about is there? Neinhart got beaten by two attacks, a new record for him.
A much simpler explanation for Jellal needing more effort than Natsu is Natsu being stronger than Jellal, we dont have to go around calling characters inconsistent.

Not sure if you read the previous posts but I will repeat myself one more time. Seriously. Natsu resorted to FDKM and an FDK attack against a Spriggan meaning he felt it was necessary in order to win. Keep in mind that Jacob survived with minimal injuries. Then we have Natsu using a casual spell in Base Form to one-shot an Enchanted Spriggan who is at least on the level of Jacob (for the reasons I stated above).

Yeah, he felt it necessary to use that to beat Jacob, didnt feel it necessary to beat Neinhart i.e Jacob>Neinhart in terms of durability.
As i said, Neinhart isnt a close up fighter, being enchanted doesnt automatically make him better than someone who is.

In essence, Natsu defeated two different Spriggans the exact same way but with two completely different power levels. If Natsu could one-shot Enhanced Neinhart, why couldn't he do the same to Jacob in Base Form + Casual Spell? He didn't need to go FDKM or use an FDK spell for that matter. And don't give me the baseless assumption that Jacob's durability is higher because I already gave you the reasons as to why Enchanted Neinhart should have decent stats.

Because Jacob is more suited to CQC and is better at dealing with it, getting enchanted simply wasnt enough to put Neinhart on that level.

 

[Labi]

Ppl complain bout Natsu one shotting neinhart. Erza fans forget erza fought and beat a very strong enemy without any senses. She literally had no chance. They forget Laxus living despite his body being full of MBP for a FULL YEAR! This dude has to have enough durability to tanks augusts nuke lol... yet he doesnt.... Gray who literally two-three shotted Invel who is stronger than Neinhart. And forget that bisca with jupiter beat the shit outta Ajeel. Thats the kind of fandome we have. The fans destroy FT even more than mashima does imo