Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2015-2016] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Avok]

Lmao, the salt is real.

I don't see it as editorial push. It's most likely due to the anime announcement or commemorating the OVA.
Like, why give it two covers now that it is pretty much an established series? Why not in its early when it would rank in the middle?

 

[Tamil]

11 days -> Black Clover Vol.7 sold 121,023 units
13 days -> Black Clover Vol.8 sold 129,115 units

It's better to see the monthly sales but it's still pretty stable. Looks like it will be a decrease but nothing drastic.

 

[ChocoBar9]

Lmao, the salt is real.

I don't see it as editorial push. It's most likely due to the anime announcement or commemorating the OVA.
Like, why give it two covers now that it is pretty much an established series? Why not in its early when it would rank in the middle?

So it needs two covers to promote an OVA/anime when its already been announced with a date and everything and you people still deny that this isn't an editorial push. Where were you guys when Toriko was being pushed?

 

[Bigivelfhq]

We all know that because One Piece has a cover, every series that has a cover means they are in the same priority as One Piece!

We also know that because One Piece only got 1 cover right now and Black Clover 2 covers it means that Black Clover is 2 times more popular than One Piece or being pushed in a desesperate manner. Given that Black Clover is obviously not 2 times more popular than One Piece than it means is the 2nd choice.

We also know that the promotion Jump provides in the magazine is directly related with the sales of the volumes, so every time they diverge, and that happens a lot of time, it means Shonen Jump is pushing.

 

[Ihore]

So Black Clover is on the same priority as OP?

Can I actually get a source on that since this volume isn't selling any better from the previous one and actually had a lower second week pull.

Its the Dude in 2ch that posts all stuff related to this.
He also posts the release dates of volumes and the price before they come up on Official WSJ site.

 

[tirakai]

Black Clover could get a massive anime boost and do 1 million a volume and you'd still get people here calling it a failure.

 

[ChocoBar9]

We all know that because One Piece has a cover, every series that has a cover means they are in the same priority as One Piece!

Which series has had multiple covers in a row as means for promotion? Strike One

We also know that because One Piece only got 1 cover right now and Black Clover 2 covers it means that Black Clover is 2 times more popular than One Piece or being pushed in a desesperate manner. Given that Black Clover is obviously not 2 times more popular than One Piece than it means is the 2nd choice.

The One Piece multiple cover were for promotion for a high profile movie while the Black Clover covers are for promotion for an anime, therefore are you saying that Black Clover's priority is on the same level of both One Piece movies? Strike Two

We also know that the promotion Jump provides in the magazine is directly related with the sales of the volumes, so every time they diverge, and that happens a lot of time, it means Shonen Jump is pushing.

How much promotion has Hinomaru gotten this year? Strike Three

 

[justsomeguy]

Black Clover could get a massive anime boost and do 1 million a volume and you'd still get people here calling it a failure.

I don't think anyone here thinks it's a failure. The thing is that Jump gives an unusual special treatment to Black Clover when it hasn't proven to be something "special" speaking of sales.

 

[SharkBait]

I don't think anyone here thinks it's a failure. The thing is that Jump gives an unusual special treatment to Black Clover when it hasn't proven to be something "special" speaking of sales.

But it is special and has potential, what else in its class is performing as well as it? I dont see any new action manga that have reached its levevl since debut. Do people want them to do nothing to promote BLack Clover?

 

[xAsum0x]

No hate with me on Black Clover. By all means get them cover and color pages and make that money! Im just noticing the special treatment its getting isn't really racking up any success so far. I mean you'd think the manga selling almost as well as MHA. Now with the upcoming OVA/Anime it could probably met and even surpass that. Theres people who think that like Forneverworld but I wouldnt consider that guy a credible source of WSJ knowledge so.

 

[ChocoBar9]

But it is special and has potential, what else in its class is performing as well as it? I dont see any new action manga that have reached its levevl since debut. Do people want them to do nothing to promote BLack Clover?

Apparently Ghost Tits

Also its not really fair to expect series that started less than a year ago to sell on the same level of BC as it now with their small print runs. Hell I'm all for Kimetsu beating the shit out of Black Clover buts its not on that level yet.

 

[WyldViolet]

I don't blame Shueshia for Black Clover's promotion.

If My Hero Academia did as well as hoped then there wouldn't be a need to put such an immense campaign behind Black Clover. It would have still gotten a lot of promotion, but it's clear that it'll be getting a much bigger push than expected, likely bigger than MHA's.
Jump needs a new huge hit, and soon.

With Naruto, Bleach, and AssClass gone, and with Toriko and Gintama likely ending this year (and World Trigger likely ending next year given the series being past its peak and never being all that much of a hit to begin with) (Saiki will probably also end next year due to complete lack of growth) (Hinomaru probably as well, with a natural end) the only high selling established series in the magazine will be; One Piece, Haikyuu, Shokugeki no Soma (which might also end much sooner than expected if these rankings continue), My Hero Academia, and Black Clover.

Samon, Kimetsu, and Ghost Tits still have quite some time before they'll be ready for an anime adaption (Samon will also have to see if becoming an action manga fixes its rankings issues). The Promised Neverland much farther out.

Black Clover is Jump's biggest hope right now, regardless of how many of us might feel about its quality.

I don't think any of the series (sans maybe The Promised Neverland) will become Naruto level successes.
I think those series will pop up sometime in 2017 though.

 

[SharkBait]

Im glad HeroAca wasnt THAT successful, superheros need to go the way of the dinosaur, so overplayed.

 

[WyldViolet]

This Week's Jump Comic Sales:

02. Haikyuu!! #23 (151,932 / 631,248)
09. Nisekoi #25 (52,115 / 209,945)
12. Toriko #41 (43,297 / 178,687)
16. Shin Tennis no Oujisama #19 (32,863 / 139,752)
17. Black Clover #8 (30,499 / 129,115)
23. Saiki Kusuo no Sainan #19 (26,239 / 86,955)
31. Yuragi-sou no Yuuna-san #3 (21,734 / 106,619)
35. Kochira Katsushika-ku Kameari Kouen-mae Hashutsujo 40th Year Anniversary Special Edition #200 (18,471 / 398,354)
41. Yu-Gi-Oh! Arc-V #2 (14,328 / 91,572)
46. Kochira Katsushika-ku Kameari Kouen-mae Hashutsujo #200 (13,057 / 133,190)

 

[Avok]

People talk like we get a Naruto every few years lol.

 

[ChocoBar9]

snip.

I just don't want Jump to make another mishap like with Toriko again because these types of promotion have worked out badly for them. I don't think Black Clover is any under pressure because MHA didn't live up to their expectations, whatever those were, I think it needs the extra promote because its been a slow boil for it through most of its run, compared to other pre-anime hits its sales are not impressive so before the anime push it needs all the help it can get. You're right in that its pretty much time to start scouting for the next big thing but it reeks of desperation to pin their hopes all on one title that's doing worse than previous hits.

 

[WyldViolet]

People talk like we get a Naruto every few years lol.

Of course we don't.
Given the state of the lineup though, now is the time we'd get one seeing how many popular series are ending/have ended and how much of the "established" lineup could easily fall into the bottom 5 given a new notable series starts up.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 20, 2016 ---

I just don't want Jump to make another mishap like with Toriko again because these types of promotion have worked out badly for them. I don't think Black Clover is any under pressure because MHA didn't live up to their expectations, whatever those were, I think it needs the extra promote because its been a slow boil for it through most of its run, compared to other pre-anime hits its sales are not impressive so before the anime push it needs all the help it can get. You're right in that its pretty much time to start scouting for the next big thing but it reeks of desperation to pin their hopes all on one title that's doing worse than previous hits.

I dunno, I think a good adaptation could mask a lot of Black Clover's faults.
I can see an Abe Nobuyuki directed adaptation from Pierrot being a huge hit.
I've been rewatching Ninku as of late, and while I think Ninku is much better written than Black Clover, it's still a pretty generic series at heart, that Nobuyki is able to just make feel magical.

 

[Varus]

Geting salty over two pieces of paper that will be thrown out by Christmas.
Personally my problem is not Jump it is Tabata he does not deserve the support he is getting. As generic as it is Clover had the potential to be a good manga but only an idiot with lazy writing can fuck up a simple and safe concept. But I still wish Clover the best just like I wish Love Rush the best and just like I wish World Trigger the best. I do not get why you would get bothered by Jump giving a manga 2 cover pages in a row It is a business by the end of the day if it did base it's covers only on popularity you'd never see anyone other than Luffy on it every week. Jump won't push something unless it has potential and whether you like it or not Clover being a battle manga has a lot of appeal and demand. Even if you think Sumo is better than Clover even if Ghost Tits found success earlier when it comes to potential longevity and success Clover wins by a land slide. There shouldn't be any debate on whether Black Clover is pushed or not it is clearly supported by the editors but denying it's popularity depends on what you consider popular, I would say Clover is far from being called a big series but it is almost fairly popular. I feel like Jump is hiding something, you keeping connecting the dots but you missed a huge point and that is the popularity poll that it strangely still did not get. I do not mind Clover getting pushed the bigger the risk the bigger the reward and the bigger it gets the harder it will fall on Tabata when he fucks it up.

 

[ChocoBar9]

I dunno, I think a good adaptation could mask a lot of Black Clover's faults.
I can see an Abe Nobuyuki directed adaptation from Pierrot being a huge hit.
I've been rewatching Ninku as of late, and while I think Ninku is much better written than Black Clover, it's still a pretty generic series at heart, that Nobuyki is able to just make feel magical.

It'll need some rewrites though and at least some form of levity to tone down the cheese factor. I kinda miss the days where long running shounen anime would get directors who put their own spin on a story through their style instead of doing panel to panel recreations. I know there's a portion of the fanbase that hates it but I really enjoyed the 1999 adaptation of Hunter x Hunter by Furuhashi Kazuhiro and I appreciate all the changes in all he made to make it stand out, the 2011 adaptation is good because its following the manga and from what we've seen from the movies that's really the only reason why its acknowledged, so can Black Clover benefit from that type of adaptation? Maybe. I mean Abe Nobuyuki managed to "out style" Kubo in many areas of the Bleach anime so there's hope for even Black Clover.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 20, 2016 ---

Geting salty over two pieces of paper that will be thrown out by Christmas.
Personally my problem is not Jump it is Tabata he does not deserve the support he is getting. As generic as it is Clover had the potential to be a good manga but only an idiot with lazy writing can fuck up a simple and safe concept. But I still wish Clover the best just like I wish Love Rush the best and just like I wish World Trigger the best. I do not get why you would get bothered by Jump giving a manga 2 cover pages in a row It is a business by the end of the day if it did base it's covers only on popularity you'd never see anyone other than Luffy on it every week. Jump won't push something unless it has potential and whether you like it or not Clover being a battle manga has a lot of appeal and demand. Even if you think Sumo is better than Clover even if Ghost Tits found success earlier when it comes to potential longevity and success Clover wins by a land slide. There shouldn't be any debate on whether Black Clover is pushed or not it is clearly supported by the editors but denying it's popularity depends on what you consider popular, I would say Clover is far from being called a big series but it is almost fairly popular. I feel like Jump is hiding something, you keeping connecting the dots but you missed a huge point and that is the popularity poll that it strangely still did not get. I do not mind Clover getting pushed the bigger the risk the bigger the reward and the bigger it gets the harder it will fall on Tabata when he fucks it up.

I said the same thing about Amano, Kubo, Matsui, Fujimaki, Komi during all their respective runs and Tabata seems to be the lesser evil since he just feels moreso inexperienced than incompetent and lazy but at the same time there's mangaka that don't really improve their writing because once you read through that first volume that's practically what you're going to get for most of the series or even worse when he outright loses motivation to continue drawing and shits out a shitty ending making you forget why you even bothered to read it in the first place. Most of the problem towards people questioning the popularity of Black Clover is that we've given next to no insight over its reception in Japan that's not from the equally overly cynical comments from 2ch, is it really a hit with kids? Its not really worth investigating because the numbers is as clear as day that it had an audience but enough for the amount of pushing? Please. When AssClass was heating up there was no question that it's success was largely due to readers actually liking it so its promotions makes sense and it wasn't nearly as excessive but how much of Black Clover's appeal is just business versus people generally liking it?

 

[Leoat12]

Well, they did say from the beginning that Giga would only be four issues. X will probably just not be monthly again, maybe bimonthly like Next but with more series.

They did? Anyway, it is still pointless. Next and X will have no substantial difference. There isn't much to change when you cannot compete with Jump itself and Jump SQ... It will have to have mostly oneshots from new authors and maybe spin-offs...