Fantasy God Serena VS Queens of Ishgar

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Hmmm... It's very hard to determine the winner in this match. If I had to guess...

Situation 1

God Serena definitely takes this...

• God Serena > Mirajane Strauss + Minerva Orland [Medium Difficulty]

Mirajane is probably the main factor in this fight. Minerva is just for support. Since this is God Serena with 8 elements and at full power, it shouldn't be more than a Medium Difficulty win for him.

Situation 2

In theory, God Serena should win this but since it is a 3-on-1 battle, I'll give it to the Queens of Ishgar...

• God Serena < Mirajane Strauss + Kagura Mikazuchi + Minerva Orland [Extreme Difficulty]

I consider Mirajane and Kagura to be on the level of a low-medium tier Spriggan like Erza. So if you combine a low-medium tier with another low-medium tier, it would be equal to that of a medium-high tier Spriggan. Add in Minerva and that would probably push it to a high tier Spriggan which is what I consider God Serena to be. With Mirajane's AoE, Kagura's Gravity Magic, and Minerva to assist them, I think they will be able to pull off a victory with the highest amount of difficulty possible.

 

[Nemispelled]

In terms of volume of water, Mirajane only pushed back the shore a bit. The distance can be measured from Mirajane to the shore line in the first image below. Lake Scilliora is a body of water several times larger. Also, while its true that salt walter has a higher boiling point than freshwater, the difference is only 2 degrees. Water boils at 100 degrees, and seawater boils at 102. That's nothing when we know that Natsu can melt rock and steel, which has its melting points of 1500+ degrees.

Spoiler: Mirajane, and the shore

You are correct about the boiling points being similar, but that doesn't really prove the point in this case.

The boiling points of water and salt water only tell you the temperature at which it turns from a liquid to a gas, but it doesn't tell you how much energy you need to apply to make that happen.


In sea water, there are 35 grams of salt in every 1 liter, but if you look at the volume of water that Mira evaporated, the amount of salt adds up exponentially.

So if you take volume and salt into account, it requires a lot more energy to evaporate sea water than it does lake water.


I'm not saying Mira beats Natsu in terms of temperature, but for a non-heat based mage like Mira, vaporizing a portion of the sea is quite a feat and unseen among many top-class tier mages.


And btw, I don't know what you mean when you say she pushed back the shoreline. Her nuke evaporated all of the water inside the massive ditch... I don't know what the shore has to do with it.

Spoiler: This is the length of the trench she evaporated

The image you showed is completely flat terrain. If you measure the depth of water in the ground, it makes quite a bit of difference.

Jura is weaker than any of the Gods of Ishgar, and he has the ability to oneshot Orga. During the Grand Magic Games, he was able to push Laxus to an extreme difficulty fight. During the battle, he was able to consistently knock him off balance with his palm strikes alone. Unless Juliet or Heine individually are more impressive than GMG Laxus, and I doubt they are, God Serena managing to solo 4 mages of Jura's caliber with power to spare is leagues more impressive than Mirajane exhausting herself taking out 2 of Juliet and Heine's.

Juliet and Heine are way more impressive than GMG Laxus... they are enchanted by Irene who Mashima favors and hypes to no bounds. They may have been two swords, but Irene's high enchantment magic caused them to have significant power levels.


The 4 GoI were ridiculously nerfed... God Serena tanking their attacks can hardly be considered a feat:

1.) Hyberion never attacked Serena. He used a form of paralysis, but that's about it.

2.) Wolfheim used a single unnamed attack.

3.) Warrod used an unnamed attack and isn't even a combat mage.

4.) And Jura used an unnamed attack... although he was never comparable to the GoI anyways... so it's expected of Serena to tank that.


Meanwhile, Mashima allowed God Serena to power up (black eyes) and use 4 dragon slaying spells.

Obviously he should hurt the other GoI a lot otherwise he isn't even Spriggan level.

Serena doesn't have any impressive feats in my opinion. If he ever comes back with more feats, I'll change my opinion. But his character power-wise has been a disappointment.

 

[Axiomus]

You are correct about the boiling points being similar, but that doesn't really prove the point in this case.

The boiling points of water and salt water only tell you the temperature at which it turns from a liquid to a gas, but it doesn't tell you how much energy you need to apply to make that happen.


In sea water, there are 35 grams of salt in every 1 liter, but if you look at the volume of water that Mira evaporated, the amount of salt adds up exponentially.

So if you take volume and salt into account, it requires a lot more energy to evaporate sea water than it does lake water.


I'm not saying Mira beats Natsu in terms of temperature, but for a non-heat based mage like Mira, vaporizing a portion of the sea is quite a feat and unseen among many top-class tier mages.


And btw, I don't know what you mean when you say she pushed back the shoreline. Her nuke evaporated all of the water inside the massive ditch... I don't know what the shore has to do with it.

Spoiler: This is the length of the trench she evaporated

The image you showed is completely flat terrain. If you measure the depth of water in the ground, it makes quite a bit of difference.

The amount of salt is not really relevant, as that's already accounted for in the boiling point. It's true that boiling point is a negligible factor when one body of water is vastly larger than the other. In this case, Lake Sciliora dwarfs the volume of water Mirajane evaporated. It's not really a crater. Mirajane simply pushed back the shoreline by a 20 or so meters (this is why the distance between Mirajane and the newly established shoreline matters). Also, it's not really a "massive ditch". With the official scans, which are much clearer, you can actually make out the shape of dead fish, kelp, and shells clearly in the foreground. I wouldn't say its very deep at all. It's no different than watching the beach on lowtide.

Spoiler: CR scans of the "massive ditch"

Compare this to the size of Lake Scilliora scaled to the entire town of Magnolia. The scan is blurry but I can provide clearer ones if you want. The town of Magnolia is the black mass, with the guild at its north. The white dots to the left are Ajeel's warships. Lake Scilliora is the body of water to the north. Also, compare the size of the tree in the background of Natsu's attack with the size of the fish and driftwood found in the foreground. This should be the most obvious indicator of scale.

Spoiler: Scale of Lake Scilliora

Spoiler: Natsu's attack

Juliet and Heine are way more impressive than GMG Laxus... they are enchanted by Irene who Mashima favors and hypes to no bounds. They may have been two swords, but Irene's high enchantment magic caused them to have significant power levels.


The 4 GoI were ridiculously nerfed... God Serena tanking their attacks can hardly be considered a feat:

1.) Hyberion never attacked Serena. He used a form of paralysis, but that's about it.

2.) Wolfheim used a single unnamed attack.

3.) Warrod used an unnamed attack and isn't even a combat mage.

4.) And Jura used an unnamed attack... although he was never comparable to the GoI anyways... so it's expected of Serena to tank that.


Meanwhile, Mashima allowed God Serena to power up (black eyes) and use 4 dragon slaying spells.

Obviously he should hurt the other GoI a lot otherwise he isn't even Spriggan level.

Serena doesn't have any impressive feats in my opinion. If he ever comes back with more feats, I'll change my opinion. But his character power-wise has been a disappointment.

Just because Juliet and Heine are enchanted by Irene doesn't mean they are individually stronger than GMG Laxus.

How were the Ishgar Heavenly Kings nerfed? Also, how can you complain about the Ishgar Heavenly King's feats when all Juliet and Heine's feats consists of are some sticky gooey thing and some rope? We've already established that Jura's palm-strikes can oneshot Orga tiers, meaning Minerva is useless in this match as Serena is leagues above Jura. All of the other 3 saints scale to above Jura's level.

Serena used 4 out of 8 of his elements. He was ready to keep marching immediately after defeating the gods of Ishgar. Mirajane collapsed from exhaustion after using 1 attack from Alegria. The Historia of God Serena can clash at least once against Gildarts without going down, and its basically confirmed that the Historia was weaker.

 

[Nemispelled]

The amount of salt is not really relevant, as that's already accounted for in the boiling point. It's true that boiling point is a negligible factor when one body of water is vastly larger than the other. In this case, Lake Sciliora dwarfs the volume of water Mirajane evaporated. It's not really a crater. Mirajane simply pushed back the shoreline by a 20 or so meters (this is why the distance between Mirajane and the newly established shoreline matters). Also, it's not really a "massive ditch". With the official scans, which are much clearer, you can actually make out the shape of dead fish, kelp, and shells clearly in the foreground. I wouldn't say its very deep at all. It's no different than watching the beach on lowtide.

Spoiler: CR scans of the "massive ditch"

Compare this to the size of Lake Scilliora scaled to the entire town of Magnolia. The scan is blurry but I can provide clearer ones if you want. The town of Magnolia is the black mass, with the guild at its north. The white dots to the left are Ajeel's warships. Lake Scilliora is the body of water to the north. Also, compare the size of the tree in the background of Natsu's attack with the size of the fish and driftwood found in the foreground. This should be the most obvious indicator of scale.

Spoiler: Scale of Lake Scilliora

Spoiler: Natsu's attack

Again, I agree that Natsu's evaporation by far outclasses Mira (which is expected), but given the nature of Mira's magic, her producing a similar feat of evaporating a portion sea water was nothing less than impressive.

I don't think anybody can deny that.

But I guess we'll just disagree on everything here then. In my opinion, Mira's Alegria soul nuke was quite a feat and was overshadowed because her opponents happened to be Juliet and Heine.

It's a shame that she had to fight Irene's two stupid enchantments instead of Spriggans, but fair enough, I'll leave it as that.

Regardless, in my opinion, Mira has showed far more superior feats compared to anything God Serena has shown.

Just because Juliet and Heine are enchanted by Irene doesn't mean they are individually stronger than GMG Laxus.

How were the Ishgar Heavenly Kings nerfed? Also, how can you complain about the Ishgar Heavenly King's feats when all Juliet and Heine's feats consists of are some sticky gooey thing and some rope? We've already established that Jura's palm-strikes can oneshot Orga tiers, meaning Minerva is useless in this match as Serena is leagues above Jura. All of the other 3 saints scale to above Jura's level.

Serena used 4 out of 8 of his elements. He was ready to keep marching immediately after defeating the gods of Ishgar. Mirajane collapsed from exhaustion after using 1 attack from Alegria.

Not individually, but together, they definitely surpass GMG Laxus. And Mira fought them in a 1v2, not individually.

Juliet and Heine are meant to be Irene's lackeys... It's not a surprise that they use unnamed attacks in the form of sticky gooey stuff and rope.


The GoI were supposedly the 4 strongest mages on Ishgar's side... I see a clear difference here.

They were terribly nerfed and were used as plot tools. None of them used a single named spell while God Serena got a chance to use 4.

That's hardly fair and biased towards Serena.

G. Serena using 4 out of 8 known spells is beyond generous for him.

I think we can judge him based off of his first 4 spells easily, considering his opponents didn't even get to use 1 named attack.



Mira in Alegria soul is far stronger than GMG Jura and Orga, so there's no point to that comparison.

Jura can't be used as a scale for Mira because the dude doesn't have any significant feats this arc.

If you scale Jura using his feats in GMG, you should be scaling Gildartz the same by using his feats in Tenrou and Tartaros (oneshotting Natsu).

 

[Axiomus]

Regardless, in my opinion, Mira has showed far more superior feats compared to anything God Serena has shown.





Not individually, but together, they definitely surpass GMG Laxus. And Mira fought them in a 1v2, not individually.

Juliet and Heine are meant to be Irene's lackeys... It's not a surprise that they use unnamed attacks in the form of sticky gooey stuff and rope.


The GoI were supposedly the 4 strongest mages on Ishgar's side... I see a clear difference here.

They were terribly nerfed and were used as plot tools. None of them used a single named spell while God Serena got a chance to use 4.

That's hardly fair and biased towards Serena.

G. Serena using 4 out of 8 known spells is beyond generous for him.

I think we can judge him off of his first 4 spells easily, considering his opponents didn't even get to use 1 named attack.



Mira in Alegria soul is far stronger than GMG Jura and Orga, so there's no point to that comparison.

Jura can't be used as a scale for Mira because the dude doesn't have any significant feats this arc.

If you scale Jura using his feats in GMG, you should be scaling Gildartz the same by using his feats in Tenrou and Tartaros (oneshotting Natsu).

The Ishgar Heavenly Kings are all individually stronger than Jura, whom was on GmG Laxus' level.
Serena took out 4 people on GMG Laxus' level or higher.

In order for Mirajane's victory to be more impressive than God Serena's, Juliet and Heine needs to be collectively stronger than the collective of the Ishgar Heavenly Saints. If Juliet and Heine aren't at least each individually stronger than GMG Laxus, then they can't possibly be stronger than the collective sum of the Ishgar Heavenly Kings + Jura. That means Serena's victory was more impressive. This would be true even if the Ishgar Heavenly Kings were only as strong as Jura.

 

[Nemispelled]

The Ishgar Heavenly Kings are all individually stronger than Jura, whom was on GmG Laxus' level.
Serena took out 4 people on GMG Laxus' level or higher.

In order for Mirajane's victory to be more impressive than God Serena's, Juliet and Heine needs to be collectively stronger than the collective of the Ishgar Heavenly Saints. If Juliet and Heine aren't at least each individually stronger than GMG Laxus, then they can't possibly be stronger than the collective sum of the Ishgar Heavenly Kings + Jura. That means Serena's victory was more impressive. This would be true even if the Ishgar Heavenly Kings were only as strong as Jura.

Sorry, I was mistakened. After looking back at the chapter, I realized that the nuke we were talking about earlier is not Alegria Soul Mira.

In fact, that was actually Mira's Satan Soul takeover.

This is the feat of Alegria Soul:

Spoiler: Mirajane Alegria Soul blitzes Juliet and Heine

Basically, Mira blitz Juliet and Heine and ended up oneshotting them with 1 attack.


That's besides the point though, Current Mirajane, especially in Alegria Soul, is more than enough to defeat 4 GMG Laxus tiers.

GMG Mira was no pushover either... just like Laxus, she was an S-Class mage, so even though she was weaker, she was still on his tier.

Current Mira should have no problem taking out 4 GMG Laxus tiers since she was never far off from Laxus to begin with.

You can even scale Mira to Erza... and as we all saw during the Fighting Festival Arc, Erza fought Laxus on equal terms for the duration of their battle.

 

[Axiomus]

Sorry, I was mistakened. After looking back at the chapter, I realized that the nuke we were talking about earlier is not Alegria Soul Mira.

In fact, that was actually Mira's Satan Soul takeover.

This is the feat of Alegria Soul:

Spoiler: Mirajane Alegria Soul blitzes Juliet and Heine

Basically, Mira blitz Juliet and Heine and ended up oneshotting them with 1 attack.


That's besides the point though, Current Mirajane, especially in Alegria Soul, is more than enough to defeat 4 GMG Laxus tiers.

GMG Mira was no pushover either... just like Laxus, she was an S-Class mage, so even though she was weaker, she was still on his tier.

Current Mira should have no problem taking out 4 GMG Laxus tiers since she was never far off from Laxus to begin with.

You can even scale Mira to Erza... and as we all saw during the Fighting Festival Arc, Erza fought Laxus on equal terms for the duration of their battle.

Evaporating the water was Alegria. The nuke was Satan Soul. Mirajane didn't oneshot Juliet and Heine. She launched several attacks in Satan Soul before resorting to Alegria, and Alegria was a complete exhaustion of her magical power. In other words, she went all out.

How was Mirajane on Laxus' level back in the GmG just because she was an S-Class Mage? Mirajane admitted that she didn't know if both her and Erza combined would be enough to take out Jura. Simply having the title of an S-Class mage doesn't mean you were on Laxus' level.

 

[Doughboy]

I think you could put anyone who is considered mid-tier Spriggan level and up to beat them in both scenarios. Obviously it won't be a stomp for Laxus, more like high diff, but put Gildarts, Laxus, DiMaria or someone in that type of category and it would be the same answer every time.

 

[Jko]

GS is only mid tier S12 imo so I see the girls be able to take him. Unknown 4 DS magic and lack of feats really hinder him. Such a shame lol.

 

[Am Shegar]

Goddy take them all. His superior damage, AOE and durability (he remaned unscratched after GOI attacks) proves him supreme. He is around Gildarts who is above Laxus and Jellal. I beleve Mira in Allegria is still below Laxus. Minevra and Kagura is around historia Wahl or below him. I cannot see how team will deal with God.

 

[**Silver**]

LoL Mirajane is overrated she cant even defeat (Hyperion and Jura )

 

[LighteningLord]

Scenario 1: God stomps real hard
Scenario 2: God Serena takes the match mid-high diff.
He is definitely stronger with 8 DS lacrimas. Imagining him in DF makes me shudder.

 

[Geralt of Rivia]

God Serena Low diffs both scenarios.

Minerva and Kagura are still more or less Tartaros Erza level as far as I'm concerned. Much like Lyon, Orga, Jura and the rest, they didn't leave their guilds to train like the main members of FT did and most likely just kept improving at the same rate they did before FT came back from Tenrou. If a non-FT member manages to not get casually stomped by a Spriggan sometime in the future I might change my mind about that but until then, it is what it is.

I believe Mira is far above their level with Alegria, but she can't even hold that form for 20 seconds. Serena wouldn't have much trouble (if at all) with that kind of power anyway given how easily he handled Jura and the GoI.

 

[Nemispelled]

Evaporating the water was Alegria. The nuke was Satan Soul.

Yeah, that's what I was talking about. I was mistakened because I thought that the nuke was from Alegria soul, which it is not.

I was also mistakened because I thought the nuke was responsible for the evaporation for the water. I was wrong on that too.

I was just clearing that up because I was talking about 2 different things there.


But regardless, Mira evaporating the water just by transforming into Alegria soul speaks volume about her power.

It took Natsu Demolition Fist to evaporate the water... It only took Mira a takeover transformation to achieve similar feats. That's pretty impressive.

Mirajane didn't oneshot Juliet and Heine. She launched several attacks in Satan Soul before resorting to Alegria, and Alegria was a complete exhaustion of her magical power. In other words, she went all out.

Read again. I never said Mira oneshotted Juliet and Heine.

I said Mira oneshotted Juliet and Heine in Alegria Soul. Which is true.

The nuke in Satan Soul couldn't put the two down... but one blitz in Alegria Soul turned them both to mere swords.

Those are the facts.

How was Mirajane on Laxus' level back in the GmG just because she was an S-Class Mage? Mirajane admitted that she didn't know if both her and Erza combined would be enough to take out Jura. Simply having the title of an S-Class mage doesn't mean you were on Laxus' level.

I don't think you get it. Any high tier mage in Alvarez Arc should have no problem taking 4 GMG Laxus. The power gap has grown too far for them to even be comparable.

Mira was already a monster pre-timeskip (She just didn't show it because Makarov didn't want her to. Her S-Class title alone shows you her rank as a mage).


And after the training over the 1 year timeskip, there is no reason that she should not be able to take on 4 GMG Laxus without ease.


As for the comparison, here is what I mean:

Spoiler: Laxus acknowledges Erza as a candidate for being "Fairy Tail's Strongest Mage"

When Laxus was asked about the contenders of who would be considered "the strongest mage in Fairy Tail", he mentions Erza and Mystogan.

So even Laxus acknowledges that Erza is on his level or tier.

And if we scale Mira to Erza, then that would also make Mira on Laxus' level or tier.


This is Lucy's interpretation of the Fairy Tail ranking (even though she is not as credible as Laxus' statement above):

Spoiler: Lucy's Interpretation (even though it is not as credible)

Once again, Erza is placed on Laxus's level or tier. Gildartz is placed higher.

This would also be true for Mira if she were an active wizard.


And this is Erza challenging Laxus' statement about him being the strongest Fairy Tail Mage (again, Erza is not credible, but it's still extra evidence):

Spoiler: Erza is once again hinted to be on Laxus' LEVEL/TIER

NOTE: I NEVER said Mira and Erza are on par with Laxus.

I just said that they were on his level.

Which, by Mashima's constant hints, is nothing less than true.

 

[sharkai]

Evaporating the water was Alegria. The nuke was Satan Soul. Mirajane didn't oneshot Juliet and Heine. She launched several attacks in Satan Soul before resorting to Alegria, and Alegria was a complete exhaustion of her magical power. In other words, she went all out.

How was Mirajane on Laxus' level back in the GmG just because she was an S-Class Mage? Mirajane admitted that she didn't know if both her and Erza combined would be enough to take out Jura. Simply having the title of an S-Class mage doesn't mean you were on Laxus' level.

Mira at that time never saw jura fight nor she seen erza fight for a long time. She probably made that claim based on jura being 5 rank.
No difference than erza saying elemenral four being equal to s class of fairy tail
Or marakarov believing that entire natdu team plus himself can't stand against ajeel.
Just standard fairy tail bs hype. These all are of course less reliable than marakrov believing that erza was weaker than kagura during the fight. Forgetting about SO maybe.
Laxus also said jwlla wax unlucky when jura fight was announced and Mavis not knowing how to take jura out.
GMG Mira should be near gmg laxus level

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2016 ---

Why are people forgetting Mira was fighting before Algeria. She should be able to maintain it for longer.

First might go to Serena
Second round goes to the girls.

 

[Axiomus]

It took Natsu Demolition Fist to evaporate the water... It only took Mira a takeover transformation to achieve similar feats. That's pretty impressive.

No, the lake water was already evaporated by Natsu's body heat. Demolition Fist itself knocked out Jacob, and carved a path through the rock.
They are not similar. Natsu's feat was larger.

Read again. I never said Mira oneshotted Juliet and Heine.

I said Mira oneshotted Juliet and Heine in Alegria Soul. Which is true.

The nuke in Satan Soul couldn't put the two down... but one blitz in Alegria Soul turned them both to mere swords.

Those are the facts.

I am confused, this is what you said.

Basically, Mira blitz Juliet and Heine and ended up oneshotting them with 1 attack.

Mirajane still attacked Juliet and Heine with Satan Soul. The fact that she used attacks and they didn't do any damage, means that Mirajane didn't oneshot them. You can argue that Mirajane has the potential to oneshot Juliet and Heine with Alegria if she used it right away, but that's not what happened. Keep in mind that Alegria was Mirajane going all out, and exhausted Mirajane's magical supply. None of this changes the fact that God Serena wrecked the Ishgar Saints without using his dragon slaying magic, and then wrecked them again after activating his dragon slaying magic... and still had power to spare.

I don't think you get it. Any high tier mage in Alvarez Arc should have no problem taking 4 GMG Laxus. The power gap has grown too far for them to even be comparable.

Erza can't. She struggled with just 3, non Laxus level Historia. Also, what proof do you have of Mirajane beating up 4 GMG Laxus opponents? You just said in your last post that it would take Juliet and Heine combined to beat GMG Laxus. Now you are essentially saying that Juliet and Heine are both twice as strong as GMG Laxus.

Mira was already a monster pre-timeskip (She just didn't show it because Makarov didn't want her to. Her S-Class title alone shows you her rank as a mage).

And after the training over the 1 year timeskip, there is no reason that she should not be able to take on 4 GMG Laxus without ease.

S-Class means nothing. Erza and Mirajane obtained S-Class years before the series started. I doubt they were even half as strong as they are now due to factors like second origin and the various timeskips. Are you saying pre-teen Mirajane/Erza are in the same league as GMG Laxus just because they all share the S-class title? Just because you are an S-Class mage doesn't mean you're on the same level as another S-class mage. It's just a title.

I honestly don't care much for character statements. But for me, Mirajane's statement about her being unsure if both she and Erza combined can take on Jura speaks volumes more about Jura's status in relation to Mirajane than anyone else's assessment of where Erza stands in relation to Laxus. Also, when you look at how they actually perform in battle (in other words, feats), it's pretty obvious Laxus stands above the rest. Laxus was probably closer to Gildarts' level than Mirajane/Erza. Laxus proved on Tenrou Island that he alone can do better than the combined efforts of team Natsu against Hades. It was also his magical power that allowed Natsu to use LFD. Mirajane and Erza both struggled extensively against someone like Azuma, and Erza in a group was at the mercy of Hades. Laxus exceeded all of Makarov's expectations when he proved he can beat Jura. Did Mirajane show the same growth? Not at all. She recovered Sitri Soul, which was simply her strongest form before the whole Lisanna fiasco. She should be on the same level as pre-7 year timeskip Erza. Erza received second origin, and proved her worth in besting Minerva and Kagura in back to back duels. Mirajane's feats are not Laxus' (or Erza's for the matter).

Also, perhaps the most relevant factor in all of this is that Mirajane is still fighting Jacob.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2016 ---

Mira at that time never saw jura fight nor she seen erza fight for a long time. She probably made that claim based on jura being 5 rank.
No difference than erza saying elemenral four being equal to s class of fairy tail
Or marakarov believing that entire natdu team plus himself can't stand against ajeel.
Just standard fairy tail bs hype. These all are of course less reliable than marakrov believing that erza was weaker than kagura during the fight. Forgetting about SO maybe.
Laxus also said jwlla wax unlucky when jura fight was announced and Mavis not knowing how to take jura out.
GMG Mira should be near gmg laxus level

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2016 ---

Why are people forgetting Mira was fighting before Algeria. She should be able to maintain it for longer.

First might go to Serena
Second round goes to the girls.

The only thing Mirajane didn't know was that Erza had second origin hidden away.
This means that Mirajane believes that she + Erza (no second origin) can't take Jura.
If Mirajane doesn't have the confidence to duo Jura, she probably doesn't have the means to solo him.

 

[Nemispelled]

No, the lake water was already evaporated by Natsu's body heat. Demolition Fist itself knocked out Jacob, and carved a path through the rock.
They are not similar. Natsu's feat was larger.

Natsu's body heat only evaporated the surface of the water, but not the whole lake. If we are comparing feats of Natsu evaporating the whole lake, that didn't happen until Natsu was at least in FDK mode.

So idk if Demolition Fist makes a difference or not, I can take back those words, but at the very least, Natsu only evaporated the entire lake (or most of it) when he was in FDKM.

I am confused, this is what you said.

Mirajane still attacked Juliet and Heine with Satan Soul. The fact that she used attacks and they didn't do any damage, means that Mirajane didn't oneshot them. You can argue that Mirajane has the potential to oneshot Juliet and Heine with Alegria if she used it right away, but that's not what happened. Keep in mind that Alegria was Mirajane going all out, and exhausted Mirajane's magical supply. None of this changes the fact that God Serena wrecked the Ishgar Saints without using his dragon slaying magic, and then wrecked them again after activating his dragon slaying magic... and still had power to spare.

I said Alegria soul oneshotted Juliet and Heine (meaning that Mira only needed 1 blitz in her Alegria Soul to reduce Juliet and Heine to swords).

But I never said Mira herself oneshotted Juliet and Heine, because she clearly didn't in her Satan Soul form.

But in her Alegria form, she turned the two girls into swords with only 1 strike.


As a whole, yes Mira didn't oneshot them, I can see that.

But in her Alegria soul, in was a one-sided annihilation in 2 seconds.

Erza can't. She struggled with just 3, non Laxus level Historia. Also, what proof do you have of Mirajane beating up 4 GMG Laxus opponents? You just said in your last post that it would take Juliet and Heine combined to beat GMG Laxus. Now you are essentially saying that Juliet and Heine are both twice as strong as GMG Laxus.

Erza defeated all 3 historias by just staring at them.

Juliet and Heine can defeat GMG Laxus, that I don't take back. Again, the power gap between Alvarez Arc and GMG is far more significant than regular powerscaling.

However, Juliet and Heine have nowhere near the firepower to take out 4 GMG Laxus... they were oneshotted by Mira's Alegria soul.

Mira on the other hand, could take out 4 GMG Laxus because she has the magic capacity, the AoE radius, and the strength and power.

Mira's magic will allow her to easily defeat 4 GMG Laxus.

S-Class means nothing. Erza and Mirajane obtained S-Class years before the series started. I doubt they were even half as strong as they are now due to factors like second origin and the various timeskips. Are you saying pre-teen Mirajane/Erza are in the same league as GMG Laxus just because they all share the S-class title? Just because you are an S-Class mage doesn't mean you're on the same level as another S-class mage. It's just a title.

I honestly don't care much for character statements. But for me, Mirajane's statement about her being unsure if both she and Erza combined can take on Jura speaks volumes more about Jura's status in relation to Mirajane than anyone else's assessment of where Erza stands in relation to Laxus. Also, when you look at how they actually perform in battle (in other words, feats), it's pretty obvious Laxus stands above the rest. Laxus was probably closer to Gildarts' level than Mirajane/Erza. Laxus proved on Tenrou Island that he alone can do better than the combined efforts of team Natsu against Hades. It was also his magical power that allowed Natsu to use LFD. Mirajane and Erza both struggled extensively against someone like Azuma, and Erza in a group was at the mercy of Hades. Laxus exceeded all of Makarov's expectations when he proved he can beat Jura. Did Mirajane show the same growth? Not at all. She recovered Sitri Soul, which was simply her strongest form before the whole Lisanna fiasco. She should be on the same level as pre-7 year timeskip Erza. Erza received second origin, and proved her worth in besting Minerva and Kagura in back to back duels. Mirajane's feats are not Laxus' (or Erza's for the matter).

The original definition of S-Class is the tier in which Makarov considers you above regular members. They were given the title based off of their strength and powers.

Mira achieved that level at a young age, I agree.

But Makarov noted her power and forbid her to use it in combat for several years.

That should give you the hint that she possessed firepower far beyond than what was shown.

Mira may not have been on par, but she was definitely on the same caliber as Laxus.

The only caliber that was above Laxus was Gildartz and Makarov.

Laxus, Mystogan, Erza, and Mira were all considered relatively on the same tier.

 

[Axiomus]

Natsu's body heat only evaporated the surface of the water, but not the whole lake. If we are comparing feats of Natsu evaporating the whole lake, that didn't happen until Natsu was at least in FDK mode.

So idk if Demolition Fist makes a difference or not, I can take back those words, but at the very least, Natsu only evaporated the entire lake (or most of it) when he was in FDKM.

Bottom right corner, you can already see the rockbed beneath. The actual attack carved a path along the rocks.

Spoiler: Leading up to demolition fist

Spoiler: The actual attack

But either way, the attacks are not comparable. There's an AoE difference, plus Juliet and Heine are not Spriggans.

I said Alegria soul oneshotted Juliet and Heine (meaning that Mira only needed 1 blitz in her Alegria Soul to reduce Juliet and Heine to swords).

But I never said Mira herself oneshotted Juliet and Heine, because she clearly didn't in her Satan Soul form.

But in her Alegria form, she turned the two girls into swords with only 1 strike.


As a whole, yes Mira didn't oneshot them, I can see that.

But in her Alegria soul, in was a one-sided annihilation in 2 seconds.

I can accept what you're saying. So what if Serena survives that one attack?

Erza defeated all 3 historias by just staring at them.

Juliet and Heine can defeat GMG Laxus, that I don't take back. Again, the power gap between Alvarez Arc and GMG is far more significant than regular powerscaling.

However, Juliet and Heine have nowhere near the firepower to take out 4 GMG Laxus... they were oneshotted by Mira's Alegria soul.

Mira on the other hand, could take out 4 GMG Laxus because she has the magic capacity, the AoE radius, and the strength and power.

Mira's magic will allow her to easily defeat 4 GMG Laxus.

Not by combat.

Juliet and Heine combined can take down GMG Laxus, if we are to believe the hype they can take down Makarov. Serena beat 4 opponents, 3 of which would have been stronger than GMG Laxus. Would Juliet and Heine stalemate 4 GMG Laxus' opponents? If Juliet and Heine can't stalemate 4 GMG Laxus opponents, then Serena's feat of taking down the Ishgar Saints is more impressive.

I'll bite. Show me where Mirajane has shown the magical capacity equal to 4x of GMG Laxus, the AoE radius comparable to that of a Spriggan, and strength and power of one (a Spriggan).

The original definition of S-Class is the tier in which Makarov considers you above regular members. They were given the title based off of their strength and powers.

Mira achieved that level as such a young age, I agree.

But Makarov noted her power and forbid her to use it in combat for several years.

That should give you the hint that she possessed firepower far beyond than what was shown.

Levy was considered as an S-class candidate.
Where in the manga has Makarov forbade Mirajane from using her power?

Mira may not have been on par, but she was definitely on the same caliber as Laxus.

The only caliber that was above Laxus was Gildartz and Makarov.

Laxus, Mystogan, Erza, and Mira were all considered relatively on the same tier.

"Caliber, on par, same level" all mean the same thing.

Makarov considered Jura a match for Gildarts. Jura was made out to be a big deal during the Grand Magic Games. Laxus beating him is a testament to Laxus' status as being Fairy Tail's top dog, bar Gildarts. Now you can make the argument that Erza was gaining on Laxus due to second origin and nakagami, and the fact she can go through rounds with Kagura and Minerva. But you can't really make the same argument for Mirajane when her strongest opponent was Jenny, and her "power-up" was something that Erza should have rivalled with the Amadura Fairy armour.[/QUOTE]

 

[sharkai]

The only thing Mirajane didn't know was that Erza had second origin hidden away.
This means that Mirajane believes that she + Erza (no second origin) can't take Jura.
If Mirajane doesn't have the confidence to duo Jura, she probably doesn't have the means to solo him.

So you think Mira knew how strong erza was in tenrou arc. Weird. I get the expression that even markarov didnt know how strong pr so erza was.
And how would Mira know anything about jura power.

Why are you comparing wrecked erza who has already been involved in four fights. Got hit by two tera clemare (power of the guild) to a fresh laxus who lasted like five seconds against Hades. Pretty much low diffed if you consider the fight after Hades started to fight.

 

[Axiomus]

So you think Mira knew how strong erza was in tenrou arc. Weird. I get the expression that even markarov didnt know how strong pr so erza was.
And how would Mira know anything about jura power.

Why are you comparing wrecked erza who has already been involved in four fights. Got hit by two tera clemare (power of the guild) to a fresh laxus who lasted like five seconds against Hades. Pretty much low diffed if you consider the fight after Hades started to fight.

Why wouldn't she? Erza had no major power-ups since then and the beginning of the series. There's been no major training arcs, and chronologically it's only been 6 months since Lucy joined. Erza's strongest armors are all known to Mirajane. I mean, I suppose the alternative is that Mirajane knew absolutely nothing about Erza's abilities. Well, you're correct Mira wouldn't have known about Jura's growth. But that means she's making the assessment before she knew that Jura rose to rank 5 of the Wizard Saint. Either way, it doesn't spell confidence for Mira.

Erza got hit by 1 Tera Clamare which did do quite a bit of damage, but the second one did not damage because she turned its power back on Azuma. You make a decent point on Laxus being fresh, but I would argue the reason that Laxus purposely gave his power to Natsu. He probably could have tanked it and kept going if he didn't. Also, Natsu was also beaten up throughout the Tenrou Arc (Zancrow, Bluenote, Hades). The fact that Laxus magical power was enough to bring him back up to shape to do what he did with LFD is again, a testament to Laxus' power.