Turn me on to phantoms

Stoicism


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shionoro

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I have a hard time when people try to moralize art. The reality is, the film was a landmark in cinema, regardless of the controversy that came from it. Obviously no one would be portraying black people in the way they did then, but the movie is 100 years old, so it's to be expected.

Daniel Day-Lewis' performance was good as usual, but the movie itself didn't really grab me much. Not really an action movie at all.
But isn't art in general social?
I mean, naturally you could seperate the techniques something introduces from the product itself (in fact, there are great techniques which were first used in very bad movies). But on the other hand, the only thing other than technique to be judged in art is the subjective emotional judgement we unleash upon it as a social anymal that cannot get out of its own emotion and values.
Naturally one can choose to overlook something because his values allow him to see it as a product of its time.
Personally for example, i don't judge someone to be a child of his time and thus have racist or sexist thoughts which would disgust me today.

I would however not watch or read a work of someone who lived in the lifetime of mohammed and idealizes to have underage sexslaves and writes a love story about one of them. Even if that lovestory is written will with all the techniques being there. Even if it is a love story that, stripped out of context, would be a pleasure to read.
The same goes for a movie like Jud Süß. It is antijewish propaganda, but wellproduced antijewish propaganda with compelling actors.
It would still be too much for me.

I do not think moralizing art can be helped. The only question is whether the art itself and its general themes prevails as 'true' enough or not.
In my opinion, an honest verse stays honest no matter what.
If someone writes with complete honesty then even flaws in his thinking become rather charming than offensive (charming as outdated).
However, oftentimes the things people get upset about today were things written in bad spirit, as propaganda or as simple plotdevices.
Those things lose badly once you can look through that.

Also, as i said, all art is social, exspecially today where we have a popculture component.
No human can judge art in an objective lense, so why would we not be honest about it to be judged based on our morals?
 

xi0

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I would however not watch or read a work of someone who lived in the lifetime of mohammed and idealizes to have underage sexslaves and writes a love story about one of them. Even if that lovestory is written will with all the techniques being there. Even if it is a love story that, stripped out of context, would be a pleasure to read.
The same goes for a movie like Jud Süß. It is antijewish propaganda, but wellproduced antijewish propaganda with compelling actors.
It would still be too much for me.
You wouldn't even watch it? Don't get me wrong, I don't think recognizing things for cultural significance is the same as endorsing what it represents wholesale.

Also, as i said, all art is social, exspecially today where we have a popculture component.
No human can judge art in an objective lense, so why would we not be honest about it to be judged based on our morals?
My point was in moralizing taste, and it mostly applies to things made today I guess, not really relics with the sort of "charm" you mentioned yourself or things made with complete cynicism.
 

gnut

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Conner mcgregor to appear on GoT...any idea who he may portray?
 

shionoro

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You wouldn't even watch it? Don't get me wrong, I don't think recognizing things for cultural significance is the same as endorsing what it represents wholesale.
well not if i do not enjoy it and have no necessaity for it.
After all, whatever influence it might have had can be studied probably better in the follow up works, simply because they followed up and often even added.
But obviously historical significance has nothing to do with taste. That is true.
My point was in moralizing taste, and it mostly applies to things made today I guess, not really relics with the sort of "charm" you mentioned yourself or things made with complete cynicism.
Well, ya, moral is a complete lie in itself if we really look at it.
Closely inspected, moral is nothing more but taste and as such i see it only adequate to express our taste in moral points of view or statements like we express our taste in art.
 

Spirit

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I don't really follow the UFC, but not really. Seems like a loudmouth clown.
Take it from someone who's met him in person. You aren't wrong.
 

xi0

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Well, ya, moral is a complete lie in itself if we really look at it.
Closely inspected, moral is nothing more but taste and as such i see it only adequate to express our taste in moral points of view or statements like we express our taste in art.
Such as moral relativism?

Yeah but our taste in the arts doesn't necessarily have to reflect on the morality of a person. At least, I never considered that to be the case.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Take it from someone who's met him in person. You aren't wrong.
Met him how? You seem to be up to a lot for someone your age....:lmao

I mean, the game is self-promotion, so he's good at it, but I find it grating.
 

Spirit

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Such as moral relativism?

Yeah but our taste in the arts doesn't necessarily have to reflect on the morality of a person. At least, I never considered that to be the case.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Met him how? You seem to be up to a lot for someone your age....:lmao

I mean, the game is self-promotion, so he's good at it, but I find it grating.
Well I recently came back from a year living there. He was at this huge St Patricks Day Parade in Dublin.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
But most successful fighters usually are:heh
True. I don't think I could imagine the fans seeing him as cool if he didn't act the way he does in public. Got to appeal to the right audience you know?
 

gnut

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You can be humble and still be a fan favorite.
Being a big mouth villanizes you...see how bad those loses were to him and rousey.
The bigger the ego the bigger the fall.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
That series Taboo i asked you about the other night is created by ridley scott.


 

xi0

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Looks spicy, and I know it's not an FX production, but seems kind of weird for it to be on it. Hopefully it won't be censored.
 

Brandish μ

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Hey xi0,

Frank from Once upon a time in the west... that's such a great movie. I've not seen it in probably 10-15 years; might need to see it soon. The opening at the train station is one of the best openings to movies I can recall.
 
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xi0

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Hey xi0,

Frank from Once upon a time in the west... that's such a great movie. I've not seen it in probably 10-15 years; might need to see it soon. The opening at the train station is one of the best openings to movies I can recall.
Probably the best of the genre?......maybe? Idk...I just think Fonda, Robards, and Bronson are gods. And Claudia Cardinale makes me happy in my pants.
 

Brandish μ

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Probably the best of the genre?......maybe? Idk...I just think Fonda, Robards, and Bronson are gods. And Claudia Cardinale makes me happy in my pants.
Not that I've seen enough Westerns but for me it is the best. I like the other Leone westerns a lot too. The cast was spectacular for sure, and Claudia :tss

My favourite actor in the genre is Lee Van Cleef.
 

Charlie

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Oh who cares for Lee van Cleef? For me it was Char...

Yep

Char man der :lmao

:slowly
 
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