Fantasy Gray vs. Historia S12

[Doughboy]

Nobody's saying Gray can't solo a S12 now but can he take on Bloodman, God Serena, and Wall at the same time? Kinda doubt that, give me the H S12 mid-high diff. Bloodman's hax is too much for anybody so Gray would have to kill him with his IDSM first while fending off the MBP during his fight w/ the other two. Just can't see it.

 

[SirSamuel016]

I'm going to be that guy that says the Historia Spriggan 12 win this one. Gray doesn't have as much raw power or speed as some others do to be able to keep up in a 3 on 1 against this sort of opponents. I mean, they are weaker than the real deal but with Serena's Versatility and Wahl's weakness stuff, I'd assume the HS12 can take this out high diff.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

I think Gray takes this one without much difficulty. In fact...

• Gray Fullbuster > Historia God Serena + Historia Wahl + Historia Bloodman [Low Difficulty]

As far as I'm concerned, none of the historias are that powerful. Someone on Rogue's and Minerva's level can hold their own against one. Can they beat a Spriggan Historia? Maybe not. But can they survive? Most definitely. Historia God Serena is the only one who had potential but he was one-shotted by Gildarts. So we can't really hype him to be that powerful.

Technically, the power of all the Historias put together cannot exceed Neinhart's magic power. And since DeS Gray far surpasses Neinhart himself, he shouldn't have any trouble taking them on. His Attack Power, Defense, and Magic Power should be sufficient. As for Speed, he doesn't really need it because he already has enough AoE to keep them busy.

Worst comes to worst, he makes 2 other clones, so now it will be easier to focus on one opponent.

With all due respect, voting for the Historia Spriggans here is a major downplay of Gray.

 

[Seven777]

I'll give it to the Historia's too. God Serena is still a beast, even as an Historia.

Gray doesnt have the offense to oneshot any of them, the speed to stay ahead of all 3's attacks, or the AoE to hit more than 1 at a time. His durability would let him drag this out but he does go down eventually, high diff.

 

[Doughboy]

Technically, the power of all the Historias put together cannot exceed Neinhart's magic power.

Where was this ever stated? We don't know if Neinhart could make an Igneel historia for all we know. It's a fair point that Minerva and Rogue solo'd a single one but it's not like their scrubs even if we haven't seen their feats completely. Plus how will Gray last against Bloodman's MBP and against God Serena's spam?

 

[Static]

Where was this ever stated? We don't know if Neinhart could make an Igneel historia for all we know. It's a fair point that Minerva and Rogue solo'd a single one but it's not like their scrubs even if we haven't seen their feats completely. Plus how will Gray last against Bloodman's MBP and against God Serena's spam?

http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/494/14

Gray takes it low diff, same reasons as @XXEliteXXAceXX

 

[Seven777]

I doubt Minerva and Rogue are scrubs, they should be more or less Sting tier, and Sting did decently against Larcade. Yes he had an advantage but his speed was still enough to land 2 hits on Larcade, his offense was enough to scratch Larcade up a bit and get him to grunt in pain and his durability was high enough to tank several of Larcade's physical attacks. They're not powerhouses by any means, but they are still relevant to current power levels

 

[Doughboy]

http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/494/14

Gray takes it low diff, same reasons as @XXEliteXXAceXX

Lol that post has nothing to do with what he said. Neinhart just said he gets tired out from summoning Historias on the level of the Spriggan 12 cause they all have immense magic power. Elite said he can't summon above his magic power. We don't know that at all.

 

[Arjuna]

I will give this battle to Spriggan Historias.Though overall MP wise Gray may be above them.Why i am choosing Historias are:-


i)Presence of Bloodman.He has Des Magic which is a perfect counter to Gray.

ii)God Serena.I believe Gray is>Historia God Serena but combined with Bloodman it will be an idomitable task.


Therefore Spriggan Historias win extreme diff.

 

[Seven777]

Lol that post has nothing to do with what he said. Neinhart just said he gets tired out from summoning Historias on the level of the Spriggan 12 cause they all have immense magic power. Elite said he can't summon above his magic power. We don't know that at all.

If 3 spriggans tire Neinhart out, attempting to summon Igneel would probably kill him, he's easily worth a thousand spriggans

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Where was this ever stated? We don't know if Neinhart could make an Igneel historia for we know.

It's not stated. It's common sense. The damage of a spell is limited to the caster's magic power. Therefore, the amount of MP put into an attack determines the amount of power that is being put out. Attack power plays a role as well but we can ignore that here since we know for a fact that the Historia's don't possess such potency. At best, they are on Rogue's and Minerva's level.

The attack power of a character can be determined by scaling the damage dealt to the durability of another character. So if Rogue + Minerva can tank the Spriggan Historia's attacks, that means they aren't that strong.

I am 100% positive that Neinhart cannot create an Igneel Historia. If he can, I'll quit reading Fairy Tail. Haha.

---

I doubt Minerva and Rogue are scrubs, they should be more or less Sting tier, and Sting did decently against Larcade. Yes he had an advantage but his speed was still enough to land 2 hits on Larcade, his offense was enough to scratch Larcade up a bit and get him to grunt in pain and his durability was high enough to tank several of Larcade's physical attacks. They're not powerhouses by any means, but they are still relevant to current power levels

Sting tier? You mean Base Sting right? Because Rogue and Minerva are far from being on Larcade's tier. It took WSDM Sting and a lot of advantages to defeat him.

 

[Doughboy]

If 3 spriggans tire him out, attempting to summon Igneel would probably kill him, he's easily worth a thousand spriggans

Yeah of course but in the end we still don't know. It's not hard to believe that Igneel MP =/< God Serena/Bloodman/Wall MP. Dragons have crazy magic power but it's not like unlimited or impossible to match. I give about 3 S12 MP to equal a Dragon's. So my formula means Neinhart could summon an Igneel historia but like you said, he might be unable to move or pass out.

 

[Seven777]

It's not stated. It's common sense. The damage of a spell is limited to the caster's magic power. Therefore, the amount of MP put into an attack determines the amount of power that is being put out. Attack power plays a role as well but we can ignore that here since we know for a fact that the Historia's don't possess such potency. At best, they are on Rogue's and Minerva's level.

The attack power of a character can be determined by scaling the damage dealt to the durability of another character. So if Rogue + Minerva can tank the Spriggan Historia's attacks, that means they aren't that strong.

I am 100% positive that Neinhart cannot create an Igneel Historia. If he can, I'll quit reading Fairy Tail. Haha.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2016 ---

Sting tier? You mean Base Sting right? Because Rogue and Minerva are far from being on Larcade's tier. It took WSDM Sting and a lot of advantages to defeat him.

Yes, Base Sting. Who im not saying is Larcade tier, but was still capable of tanking Larcade's physical attacks, landing hits on him, and dealing minor damage to him. These are decent feats.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2016 ---

Yeah of course but in the end we still don't know. It's not hard to believe that Igneel MP =/< God Serena/Bloodman/Wall MP. Dragons have crazy magic power but it's not like unlimited or impossible to match. I give about 3 S12 MP to equal a Dragon's. So my formula means Neinhart could summon an Igneel historia but like you said, he might be unable to move or pass out.

Well sure, equal to a GMG dragon's maybe. But we are talking about a dragon that tangled with Acnologia, his power is on another level.
Fair enough on not knowing though, but imo Igneel is leagues beyond Neinhart's capabilities, to the point where even attempting to summon him would kill Neinhart instantly.

 

[SirSamuel016]

http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/494/14

Gray takes it low diff, same reasons as @XXEliteXXAceXX

Lol that post has nothing to do with what he said. Neinhart just said he gets tired out from summoning Historias on the level of the Spriggan 12 cause they all have immense magic power. Elite said he can't summon above his magic power. We don't know that at all.

Here is the CR page for proper clarification:

While it's not determined if he can actually summon others above his level, if he did they'd still be a hell of a lot weaker.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Yes, Base Sting. Who im not saying is Larcade tier, but was still capable of tanking Larcade's physical attacks, landing hits on him, and dealing minor damage to him. These are decent feats.

Base Sting isn't that strong though... Gray can defeat Minerva + Base Rogue + Base Sting any day. He matched E.N.D quite evenly so how can anyone argue that he'll lose against low-tier characters?

I will give you the durability feats. As for everything else, I don't think those are decent feats at all. Landing hits means nothing if it deals no damage. And since he dealt minor damage, that means Sting is far weaker.

---

Here is the CR page for proper clarification:

While it's not determined if he can actually summon others above his level, if he did they'd still be a hell of a lot weaker.

That's my point. Anything he summons is limited to his own magic power. So it doesn't matter who he summons. They are still on Rogue's and Minerva's level. So what @Atomicus said is exactly what I'm trying to say. The CR translations seem to agree as well. I don't see how this can be spun in any other way.

 

[Seven777]

Base Sting isn't that strong though... Gray can defeat Minerva + Base Rogue + Base Sting any day. He matched E.N.D quite evenly so how can anyone argue that he'll lose against low-tier characters?

I will give you the durability feats. As for everything else, I don't think those are decent feats at all. Landing hits means nothing if it deals no damage. And since he dealt minor damage, that means Sting is far weaker.

Nah, give me a Sting and Rogue combo alone and i'd say they could give Gray a good fight.

Dont have them as low tier characters either, i have them as mid tier characters. Stronger than any member of CS other than Jellal, above DF Wendy and Lucy(who i have as fairly powerful themselves). Pretty much the strongest characters outside of FT's top tiers(excluding Erza and Mira, who imo will be spriggan tier or above soon)

Larcade>Gray imo, so doing minor damage to him means doing moderate damage to Gray. You also have to times it by 3 cause Gray is fight 3 at a time. Also, i definitely have God Serena Historia>>Wahl/Bradman Historia

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Nah, give me a Sting and Rogue combo alone and i'd say they could give Gray a good fight.

Dont have them as low tier characters either, i have them as mid tier characters. Stronger than any member of CS other than Jellal, above DF Wendy and Lucy(who i have as fairly powerful themselves). Pretty much the strongest characters outside of FT's top tiers(excluding Erza and Mira, who imo will be spriggan tier or above soon)

Larcade>Gray imo, so doing minor damage to him means doing moderate damage to Gray. You also have to times it by 3 cause Gray is fight 3 at a time. Also, i definitely have God Serena Historia>>Wahl/Bradman Historia

Oh... Well, in that case, we'll just have to disagree because I can tell from reading your whole post that we see everything differently.

If you're talking about Base Gray, then yeah, Sting and Rogue can stand a chance. But not DeS Gray...

As for Base Sting and Base Rogue, I would put them on Minerva's level. That means they are DF Wendy or Lucy's level at best. Definitely below Erza and Mirajane... If Sting and Rogue were to fight Brandish, I could see the damage dealt being on the same caliber as Lucy. WSDM Sting and WSDM Rogue is stronger, but that is a whole separate discussion.

As for Larcade, I rank him below DeS Gray. So any attack that Larcade can tank can be easily tanked by Gray. I believe I stated this in another thread, but I'll state it again just in case. Just because someone can scratch or bruise their opponent, that doesn't mean they are even remotely close in terms of power. Leo bruised Jacob. Multiply his power by 3 and I'm still not sure if he can win. Base Wendy gave Dimaria a bruise. If you were to give her a little boost in power, could she defeat Dimaria? I don't think so. The gap here is huge.

The only statement I agree with is that Historia God Serena is above Historia Wahl + Historia Bloodman. But I still don't see them beating Gray...

 

[EmptySoul]

Lmfao

The gray wank is real,no hate

Gray gets stomped by just God serena high diff

God serena is still strong even if hes a historia and he can still use all 8 lacrima and gray has no elemental advantange this time which is the only reason he beat invel

My opinion tho

 

[Zelefomavis]

Imo there historia spriggans > Gray , because of their number. I don't see Gray being able to one shot one of them, because he is not allol about raw force, so he will eventually be overwhelmed

 

[Boomburst]

@Atomicus I think this might the first time I've ever disagreed with you about anything ever

The problem with the argument that the Historias combined can't have more MP than Neinhart is that we're not exactly sure how Neinhart's MP is spent when he creates his Historias. If he had to keep exerting MP to keep his Historia up then I might agree. But if he only needs to spend MP on the initial creation of the Historia then as long as he regains his magic power inbetween each creation, only each individual Historia wouldn't be able to have more MP than Neinhart himself.

Anyways, even assuming this argument was accurate, Neinhart may have low stats but his MP should be right up there with the other Spriggans. Gray may be able to low-diff Neinhart himself but if his MP is distributed between three much more offensive Historias Gray's gonna have a much harder time. I'm not sure who exactly would win but it would definitely be at least high-diff either way.