The top 3 thread. Topic: Top 3 plotpoints you would like to see more of

[shionoro]

I would say the 10 remaining Zodiacs, because they look like babies in comparison to Ging and Parison. But I think the whole Hunter Association (except Ging, Netero and Parison) is made of pushovers, like if the real great Nen users didn't care to take part in it.
But those 10 at least should be able to reach the same results as Kurapika in the selection to the DC voyage.

I think you might really underestimate the zodiac.
We simply didnt see the extent of their power and the election arc had many lucky coincidences playing in pariston's and ging's favour.

I really don't think that ging and pariston outclass the other zodiac, that stuff was just in their ballpark.

 

[uberfayt]

Here is my third entry :

Killua (post chimera ant arc) : I feel like lots of people ignore how powerful Killua has gotten in the chimera arc ant. Him being a bit underestimated and underrated by fans is a bit understandable, as he didn't make a big impression in his fight against Youpi and Palm, plus how he felt left behind by Gon in the aura department. Now let's talk about why Killua is actually much stronger than one might think.

To do that, lets look at how strong Youpi and ant Palm are. Youpi was strong enough that he could deal crippling damage _if not kill_ anybody while being unfazed by physical attacks. To describe how strong Palm became as a hybrid, recall the how physically powerful the division commanders were, yet they were only based on normal human beings. Hence imagine what destructive force a pro hunter based ant would have !

Yet Killua fought with these beasts. Thanks to Kanmuru, he could face Youpi and pinhim to the ground by numbing him while showering him with blows, but sadly had no damaging effect due to Youpi's bulk. And with Palm, he could tank some of her full power punches with his normal defense (a punch which shattered the 50kg metallic yoyo like it was made of glass). So imagine if Killua with that level fought with a normal hunter, I'd say he'll win just because of his ability's numbing effect ! (not to mention his power...)

Finally let's compare him with Gon. In the physical strength department, Killua was and is still stronger than Gon, maybe not by a large margin as it was the case in the begining but still. However when it comes to aura, he was temporarily left behind as Gon's grew abnormaly powerful when facing Pitou (I'm talking about normal Gon, not Gon-san).

Verdict : Killua is a badass. We need to see more feats from the current Killua against humains...And if possible, to see him with a grown up body after some time skip...I'll stop here to save you from my fangasming at the idea of a grown-up Killua and Gon

 

[Demonspeed]

Palm became stronger but she is not originally a fighter, and yet she became that strong, it says a lot about the soldiers + Spiritual Message combo. Gon and Killua are far stronger than the average Hunters.

 

[shionoro]

It is actually interesting to think about the strength of the average hunters.
I would assume that most of the are roughly on the level of leorio if they are not explicitly fighters, which most are not.

Even of the zodiac, most of them don't seem to be fighters. I would assume that only people like blacklist hunter or others that need power for their job are on the level necessary to fight gon and kill by now, or very talented hunters from other categories.

But i do think that we might, to get back to topic, underestimate the normal hunters a bit here.
We are set to see them as fodder because hisoka offed a lot of them easily and a bunch of them couldnt even hold down ging in their brawl.
However, the fight on ging was a friendly squarrel in which noone tried to honestly kill, and hisoka fought temp hunters in addition to being VERY strong.

Another instance we saw when people were fodderized despite knowing nen was when genthru was so far above the normal GI hunters that they didnt even try to attack him when he announced that there is a bomb (the one guy who did got killed easily).
But those, once again, where not necessarily all hunters. Lots of people on GI were nonhunters, Genthru included.

I would assume that 5 legit hunters who passed the exam and learned nen are a threat for most people if they know whats to come and have at least one hatsu that enable them to fight.
That does not mean they win, mind you. The shadow beasts coulda won against uvorgin by teaming up but screwed it all up (and those were actual fighters), but i am just saying that they can not be taken lightly.

I would think that there are lots of people in the organization on the level of shoot and knuckle (and thus gon and kill), at least like 10-20 more nonzodiac and nonstarhunters who are on that level.
Elseways it would be strange for shoot and knuckle to make morel as a teacher if they are basically near the top ten nenuser category anyway.

Since we know shingenkungfu is a thing that actually many nenusers seem to praction (wing, zushi, biscuit, netero at least, and 2 of those are famous so probably many more), i would think that there are quite a lot of considerable nenusers in the fighting department.

 

[uberfayt]

We do know that there are over 600 hunters in total, pro and temp included. I would say that most fighter pro hunters are between Binolt's level (the guy with the scissors) and Knuckles/shoot level, then you have the veteran hunters which are on par with Knov, Morel or Biske (I suspect that some Zodiacs are on this level as well), then we have the prodigy hunters like Netero, Ging and some zodiacs.
I believe that even the non fighter pro hunters are great nen users with some crazy abilities, and strengthwise should be at least comparable to how Gon was in York shin.

This is my opinion of course, but I do think that an association dealing with criminals and magical beast should be at least this strong. (The temp hunters are obviously weak and just fodder, probably even weaker than Gon's level in chapter 1).

 

[shionoro]

We do know that there are over 600 hunters in total, pro and temp included. I would say that most fighter pro hunters are between Binolt's level (the guy with the scissors) and Knuckles/shoot level, then you have the veteran hunters which are on par with Knov, Morel or Biske (I suspect that some Zodiacs are on this level as well), then we have the prodigy hunters like Netero, Ging and some zodiacs.
I believe that even the non fighter pro hunters are great nen users with some crazy abilities, and strengthwise should be at least comparable to how Gon was in York shin.

This is my opinion of course, but I do think that an association dealing with criminals and magical beast should be at least this strong. (The temp hunters are obviously weak and just fodder, probably even weaker than Gon's level in chapter 1).

The temphunters are chosen, afaik, simply as workers for the association and pariston was in complete control about who gets in.
That means they were not chosen for strength and most of them probably didnt know nen before they joined the association (or learned what it is the hard way).

However, i think thinking that fighting actual hunters are just on gon's level in yorkshin is much too low imo.
At that point, gon didnt even have a hatsu and was not able to properly control his nen in a fight.
I would rather use gon's level in GI as a baseline for the hunters who are actually into fighting.
Maybe not quite as strong as genthru, but arround the level of tzezguerra (the untrained one, tzezguerra when he trained might be much stronger than we'd exspect).

But binolt might be a good baseline here. Binolt was fodder for biscuit but she still thought of him as a threat and the boys had even big problems in beating an injured binolt 2n1.

I think even the nonfighting zodiac are on a level that could give gon and kill a serious run for their money even now , whether by power or strategy.
I do not think that netero would have chosen anyone not able to do that.

I simply think there are more people of consierable strength that we know of, elseways it would really make no sense that we even have blacklist hunters because then basically none of them could take on threats like the spider or the bomber and any such.

 

[uberfayt]

However, i think thinking that fighting actual hunters are just on gon's level in yorkshin is much too low imo.

I absolutely agree. In my previous post I asctually said that the non-fighters should be at least in Gon's level when he was in Yorkshin, and only physical-strengthwise. I did say that they must be great nen users however.

As for fighters, the bar of course is set quite high (so Binolt's level as minimum is reasonable IMO). And yes, Tsezeguera is much stronger than we think, especially if he trains, I agree.

By the way, if I had to classify Genthru, I would put him slightly above knuckles/shoot. He also does look to be at around the same age as them, so it's not too far fetched. His aura control is just fascinating; to balance nen between manipulation, emission and materialisation is no small feat, on top of that he can use transmutation too...And his fighting skills while using the basic nen techniques are top notch too.

 

[shionoro]

I absolutely agree. In my previous post I asctually said that the non-fighters should be at least in Gon's level when he was in Yorkshin, and only physical-strengthwise. I did say that they must be great nen users however.

As for fighters, the bar of course is set quite high (so Binolt's level as minimum is reasonable IMO). And yes, Tsezeguera is much stronger than we think, especially if he trains, I agree.

By the way, if I had to classify Genthru, I would put him slightly above knuckles/shoot. He also does look to be at around the same age as them, so it's not too far fetched. His aura control is just fascinating; to balance nen between manipulation, emission and materialisation is no small feat, on top of that he can use transmutation too...And his fighting skills while using the basic nen techniques are top notch too.

Oh, now i get you, ya i agree with that.

Ye, Genthru is a really scary guy when he tries. He is overshadowed by chrollo and meruem and Hisoka, sure, but he is definitely still one of the strongest nenusers (nonant) that we have encountered.
And I agree with him being possibly above knuckle and shoot.
He didnt lose to gon because he was weaker, quite the opposite. He was shocked by gon's resolve and he fell into the trap, but that whole fight coulda ended very differently (and imo would have ended differently in most cases if they fought 10 times).
It is funny tho that gon was defeated by knuckle rather smoothly and does speak for knuckle and his inner resolve.
All the determination in the world didnt help gon there.

 

[uberfayt]

Oh, now i get you, ya i agree with that.

Ye, Genthru is a really scary guy when he tries. He is overshadowed by chrollo and meruem and Hisoka, sure, but he is definitely still one of the strongest nenusers (nonant) that we have encountered.
And I agree with him being possibly above knuckle and shoot.
He didnt lose to gon because he was weaker, quite the opposite. He was shocked by gon's resolve and he fell into the trap, but that whole fight coulda ended very differently (and imo would have ended differently in most cases if they fought 10 times).
It is funny tho that gon was defeated by knuckle rather smoothly and does speak for knuckle and his inner resolve.
All the determination in the world didnt help gon there.

Yeah exactly ^^ the fight between Gon and Knuckles (the one where he doesn't use Potclean) is one of my favourites of the whole series. We see Gon discover a clever usage of his ability, moreover we begin to see how strong pro hunters are. I really hope we get to see fights like that later on in the series, maybe after the DC arc.

 

[Kanmuru]

-Knuckle
He's very underrated imo, maybe a lot of people like him, but I've never seen him mentioned in any fighting discussion, but considering his fight against gon he is just amazing at hand to hand combat. Hisoka played with an unexperienced gon easily but knuckle also played easily with gon who at that moment went trough training with biske, developed a powerful hatsu, winning GI and another training with biske.
Considering this and without taking hatsu into account (there's a lot of circunstances to be considered there) I think he can go hand to hand with any spider, even hisoka. But then again Hakoware is amazing if the enemy doesn't have a lot of killing potential and he seems capable of out-fighting a lot of characters.

 

[shionoro]

-Knuckle
He's very underrated imo, maybe a lot of people like him, but I've never seen him mentioned in any fighting discussion, but considering his fight against gon he is just amazing at hand to hand combat. Hisoka played with an unexperienced gon easily but knuckle also played easily with gon who at that moment went trough training with biske, developed a powerful hatsu, winning GI and another training with biske.
Considering this and without taking hatsu into account (there's a lot of circunstances to be considered there) I think he can go hand to hand with any spider, even hisoka. But then again Hakoware is amazing if the enemy doesn't have a lot of killing potential and he seems capable of out-fighting a lot of characters.

Yeah, we also have to consider that knuckle and shoot still consider themselves as students of morel.
That means they are still learning and getting better at what they do, so they have not reached their maximum yet.

It seemed like the last things they had to learn was for knuckle to be less of an idiot and for shoot to be braver, and at least shoot learned that lesson against yuupi at some point.

 

[uberfayt]

-Knuckle
He's very underrated imo, maybe a lot of people like him, but I've never seen him mentioned in any fighting discussion, but considering his fight against gon he is just amazing at hand to hand combat. Hisoka played with an unexperienced gon easily but knuckle also played easily with gon who at that moment went trough training with biske, developed a powerful hatsu, winning GI and another training with biske.
Considering this and without taking hatsu into account (there's a lot of circunstances to be considered there) I think he can go hand to hand with any spider, even hisoka. But then again Hakoware is amazing if the enemy doesn't have a lot of killing potential and he seems capable of out-fighting a lot of characters.

Yeah I totally agree, maybe the same could be said about Shoot as well, but it's Knuckles who displayed his prowess in combat, wits and Hatsu. Many would say that his soft and emotional side is his weakness, but to me that's what makes him endearing as a character ^^ heck I always get teary when he finds out the puppy stayed by his side after his first encounter with Gon T_T "I...I ain't crying you punk !! I'l beat the crap out of you if you tell anybody !!" lol

And what about Gorein, he's also quite strong with a very interesting and versatile ability, but sadly does not get so much credit (due to lack of feats).

 

[Demonspeed]

The fight against Knuckle showed how much Gon and Killua have to learn. Flashy abilities are not enough to become a top fighter, if Knuckle had wanted it he would have killed Gon in one hit. Shoot has been more impressive than Knuckle IMO. I consider his ability more versatile too.

It is actually interesting to think about the strength of the average hunters.
I would assume that most of the are roughly on the level of leorio if they are not explicitly fighters, which most are not.

Even of the zodiac, most of them don't seem to be fighters. I would assume that only people like blacklist hunter or others that need power for their job are on the level necessary to fight gon and kill by now, or very talented hunters from other categories.

But i do think that we might, to get back to topic, underestimate the normal hunters a bit here.
We are set to see them as fodder because hisoka offed a lot of them easily and a bunch of them couldnt even hold down ging in their brawl.
However, the fight on ging was a friendly squarrel in which noone tried to honestly kill, and hisoka fought temp hunters in addition to being VERY strong.

Another instance we saw when people were fodderized despite knowing nen was when genthru was so far above the normal GI hunters that they didnt even try to attack him when he announced that there is a bomb (the one guy who did got killed easily).
But those, once again, where not necessarily all hunters. Lots of people on GI were nonhunters, Genthru included.

I would assume that 5 legit hunters who passed the exam and learned nen are a threat for most people if they know whats to come and have at least one hatsu that enable them to fight.
That does not mean they win, mind you. The shadow beasts coulda won against uvorgin by teaming up but screwed it all up (and those were actual fighters), but i am just saying that they can not be taken lightly.

I would think that there are lots of people in the organization on the level of shoot and knuckle (and thus gon and kill), at least like 10-20 more nonzodiac and nonstarhunters who are on that level.
Elseways it would be strange for shoot and knuckle to make morel as a teacher if they are basically near the top ten nenuser category anyway.

Since we know shingenkungfu is a thing that actually many nenusers seem to praction (wing, zushi, biscuit, netero at least, and 2 of those are famous so probably many more), i would think that there are quite a lot of considerable nenusers in the fighting department.

Leorio himself is considered as someone above average. I don't think many Hunters are at Gon-Killua or Knuckle-Shoot level. We get to see many characters stronger because it is more action-oriented and they need to grow.

Hunters are required to master Nen and/or some martial art so when there is a character with a better mastery than the protags with at least one Star or other kind of achievements, it means that he is most likely stronger. Even when your ability is not combat oriented you can be among the strongest(Biscuit).

Tsezguerra for example is a Single Star Jackpot Hunter, and was stronger than Gon and Killua but his Nen mastery was bad due to lack of training. Then we have Morau, who is not a fighter but is nonetheless way above average. Despite this, the gap between him and the elite(Zodiacs) appear to be huge. To me, the most average kind of Hunter is someone who never actually does anything related to combat(unlike Tzeguerra for example) and doesn't practice regularly(like Tzeguerra). When one as at least a Star and participated in some missions requiring action, he can be considered above average IMO. If the elite is 10/10, I'd say the likes of Gon and Killua are 6 or 6.5/10. And Leorio 5.5 or 6 as of now.

 

[duerlin]

The least impressive hunter could accomplish great feats when dealing with non-hunters. Also, I guess blacklisted hunters at the level of the Ryodan are more rare than a phoenix feather or a qilin horn. So, in almost every situation, those hunters are enough.
As the manga theme is about fighting, those are overshadowed.

 

[Kanmuru]

I don't think black-list hunters are fighting people like Kuroro, Hisoka or some crazy nen-master boss. They could be hired for mafia related bussines, terrorist or big criminals.
As we saw in York shin the mafia and their uzi's aren't that much of a threat against nen users.

 

[Demonspeed]

Depends on the Blacklist Hunter. Most of the ones we know are clearly not at this level, the strongest we know is Saiyu and he probably doesn't care, you need to find them too. Bushidora was a Single Star Blacklist Hunter and lost to Hisoka offscreen, Hisoka was not even injured and had to kill several other Hunters too.

 

[shionoro]

Depends on the Blacklist Hunter. Most of the ones we know are clearly not at this level, the strongest we know is Saiyu and he probably doesn't care, you need to find them too. Bushidora was a Single Star Blacklist Hunter and lost to Hisoka offscreen, Hisoka was not even injuried and had to kill several other Hunters too.

Yeah, i think we are reminded rather often indirectly that a star does not correlate with fighting strength all that much.
Tsezguerra is definitely stronger than he seemed on GI, but even in top state he is most definitely not on hisoka's level.

Bushidora might aswell have a star because he was very good at coordinating strikes against an influential crime synicate rather than for bringing down a dangerous criminal himself.

After all (and this is kinda interesting): The spiders are a MUCH smaller threat to the order of the hunter world than people like jairo.
The spiders are very strong individually, but they steal and run. Their big feat was taking out a lot of paramilitary mafia people and assassins, but you can come by the spider with other possibilities. Should they ever threaten an influential politician, you can definitely hire top notch military officials to bring them down.
Afte rall, in the latest arc we see that the military has quite top level nenusers in it, and i am sure political officials (since they know about the hunter org) have access to enough firepower necessary.
The thing is that the spider do not warrant to bring out the big guns because they only seem to meddle with some rich but unimportant people and the mafia.
Those people can hire the zoldyeks and other assassins, but they don't have quite the warmachine behind them.

Jairo on the other hand is an actual threat to the world order by leading a drug cartell and being able to control his own region. He can definitely use means like sleeper cells and stuff like that to do a lot of harm, even if jairo was (before converting) not physically strong.
If Bushidora took out such a cartel, then his star is more than justified even if his fighting prowess does not justify a star.

After this thought: Blacklist hunters might not be the strongest hunters arround.
I would give that edge to any martial artists of either huntingtype.
Biscuit has no fighting hatsu and she is interested in gems, not fighting.
But since she practioned shingen kungfu, she is one hell of a powerhouse.
I would exspect anyone who actually does martial arts and is a hunter to be on the stronger side.
Even people like Wing who do not seem like much can probably be a good match for many blacklist hunters.

 

[uberfayt]

Now that I think about it, who are the pure fighter nen users that we know of (by pure fighters I mean those who have martial arts proficiency, have trained their bodies for the purpose of battle or have lots of combat experience) ?
I can list Gon, the Zoldieks (except Milluki and Alluka), Hisoka, Chrollo, Uvo, Genthru and his buddies, Biske, Netero, Kanzai, Saiyuu, Knuckles, Ging (obviously I have missed some names but you get where I'm coming from)... All these individuals are unbelievably strong (even Gon, Killua and Kalluto for their age), and I consider them to be the top elite.

But the funny thing, is that we have never had a fight between two of the above mentioned (adult) elites until the Hisoka vs Chrollo fight...and it doesn't look like we'll get one in the future

 

[Demonspeed]

Now that I think about it, who are the pure fighter nen users that we know of (by pure fighters I mean those who have martial arts proficiency, have trained their bodies for the purpose of battle or have lots of combat experience) ?
I can list Gon, the Zoldieks (except Milluki and Alluka), Hisoka, Chrollo, Uvo, Genthru and his buddies, Biske, Netero, Kanzai, Saiyuu, Knuckles, Ging (obviously I have missed some names but you get where I'm coming from)... All these individuals are unbelievably strong (even Gon, Killua and Kalluto for their age), and I consider them to be the top elite.

But the funny thing, is that we have never had a fight between two of the above mentioned (adult) elites until the Hisoka vs Chrollo fight...and it doesn't look like we'll get one in the future

Can we really sort them like that? The closest thing to pure fighters are IMO Blacklist Hunters and Terrorist Hunters perhaps. Still, a Hunter is not necessarily working in his specialized field. Kurapika is Blacklist Hunter but he's also the boss of the Nostrade clan, Botobai is a jurist etc. Ging is a powerful fighter but his specialization as a Hunter is archeology. All Hunters are required to master at least Ne, the rest depends on what they want to do with it. But obviously you can do more missions if you can fight.

With Beyond trying to escape, the bodyguards, Nen beasts, Spiders, Hisoka and the Zodiacs on the same boat there should be at least one fight like that.

 

[uberfayt]

Can we really sort them like that? The closest thing to pure fighters are IMO Blacklist Hunters and Terrorist Hunters perhaps. Still, a Hunter is not necessarily working in his specialized field. Kurapika is Blacklist Hunter but he's also the boss of the Nostrade clan, Botobai is a jurist etc. Ging is a powerful fighter but his specialization as a Hunter is archeology. All Hunters are required to master at least Ne, the rest depends on what they want to do with it. But obviously you can do more missions if you can fight.

With Beyond trying to escape, the bodyguards, Nen beasts, Spiders, Hisoka and the Zodiacs on the same boat there should be at least one fight like that.

Yeah I agree, but IMO the facts that make a hunter a pure fighter are how many battles he has been through and how frequent they were, as well as the martial art training he's doing to keep in shape. A blacklist hunter as you've said is the one job which apparently demands lots of battle proficiency, however with a very special ability and team work one could deal with criminals without relying on battle prowess. Take Kurapika for example, physically he's nowhere near the spiders' level, yet with his special ability, his careful research and plannings he could beat Uvo and even capture Chrollo.

I think that a true fighter feels minimum stress during a battle and has forged his psyche to always be clearminded and focused.

And yeah let's hope there will be a fight like that, you know where they exchange many blows and use the basic nen techniques.