Team Alvarez Queens vs. Igneel

[Seven777]

Thing is, people are glossing an important factor. Makarov while using Titan BODIED Acnologia and held him down for some time. Brandish = God Serena's calibur. Brandish, Dimaria, and Irene are miles stronger than Makarov. Is it really hard to believe that with Irene enchanting Brandish along with Command T: Expansion that she can't do the same thing as Makarov did to Acnologia...? Igneel is close in power to Acnologia still isn't comparable to him.

First off, in terms of physical strength Makarov is the strongest human in the series and that feat against Acno is what puts him there.
Also, he didnt "body" Acno, he grappled with Acno for a few seconds and couldnt get Acno to budge an inch, all Makarov could do was stop his charge and block his path so he wouldnt eat FT and even then seconds later Acno pushed him over.

Besides, even if giant Brandish enchanted could push Acno back in an grappling match, that still doesnt mean she could damage him in any way or survive a single attack. Acno was playing with FT on Tenrou, thats the only reason he got into that pushing contest with Makarov, if he wanted to he could have just destroyed the island before even landing.

 

[Axiomus]

Thing is, people are glossing an important factor. Makarov while using Titan BODIED Acnologia and held him down for some time. Brandish = God Serena's calibur. Brandish, Dimaria, and Irene are miles stronger than Makarov. Is it really hard to believe that with Irene enchanting Brandish along with Command T: Expansion that she can't do the same thing as Makarov did to Acnologia...? Igneel is close in power to Acnologia still isn't comparable to him.

What did Makarov manage to do against Acnologia? He grappled with him for a few minutes, and then got pinned. Even if you say Brandish can do at least as well as Makarov, that only means that Brandish can hold off Igneel for a few seconds before she gets pinned.

Spoiler: Makarov getting pinned

Not to mention, Acnologia wasn't even using the same strength he used against Gildarts in their first encounter. He was basically just playing with them.

Spoiler: Gildarts saying Acnologia was just playing with them

Needless to say, Igneel also has feats against Acnologia...and his feats are far better than Makarov's in every category. All Igneel would have to do against Brandish is recreate the first 2 minutes of battle he did against Acnologia. Tackle him, tail whip him, and then roar. If absolutely necessary bite off an arm afterwards, but personally I think its game over at the roar.

Spoiler: Igneel can tackle Acnologia mid roar

Spoiler: He can tail whip Acnologia, and combo into a roar

Spoiler: When pinned, he can push away Acnologia and dive in to take an arm

 

[Crimson Ice]

Thing is, people are glossing an important factor. Makarov while using Titan BODIED Acnologia and held him down for some time. Brandish = God Serena's calibur. Brandish, Dimaria, and Irene are miles stronger than Makarov. Is it really hard to believe that with Irene enchanting Brandish along with Command T: Expansion that she can't do the same thing as Makarov did to Acnologia...? Igneel is close in power to Acnologia still isn't comparable to him.

Acno wasn't serious, at all.....Gildarts made this perfectly clear. A Dragon's brute strength>A Dragon's magical attacks, the end to Igneel vs Acno should've made this clear. If Igneel is remotely serious Brandish gets tossed around like a damn salad by Igneel.

 

[~Charging Lightning~]

@Doughboy Lol, sorry if this seems like a coordinated attack against you fam, didn't think people would have replied to you so quickly. Anyway, here's my response:

Thing is, people are glossing an important factor. Makarov while using Titan BODIED Acnologia and held him down for some time. Brandish = God Serena's calibur. Brandish, Dimaria, and Irene are miles stronger than Makarov. Is it really hard to believe that with Irene enchanting Brandish along with Command T: Expansion that she can't do the same thing as Makarov did to Acnologia...? Igneel is close in power to Acnologia still isn't comparable to him.

"Bodied"? Fam, that never happened. He stopped Acnologia from moving for a couple of seconds and got pinned. Not to mention that Acnologia was revealed to be playing around. What Makarov did was amazing, but you give him too much credit. If Acno was remotely serious then he would have murdered Makarov in a heartbeat.

Even if we were to give an enhanced Brandish the benefit of the doubt and say that she can wrestle a serious Igneel, what good will that do? She still has no way of injuring him. Plus, Igneel is an incredibly versatile and agile dragon. Why should we assume that a huge Brandish has the speed to even attempt to wrestle him before he one shots her?

Again, if 3 Spriggans is all it takes to defeat an Acnologia level character then Acnologia himself would not be a threat to Zeref and his army of 12 Spriggan in any way.

 

[Arjuna]

The roar that Igneel used against Acnologia which made Cana comment that "Sun has fallen from the sky" is enough to take down all of them at once.

 

[Jko]

Little of Ig's power wasn't the actual reason Natsu was beating Zeref. Ig had the power of the dead which might've killed Zeref, but you also have to remember Zeref was actually not even trying against Natsu. He could've ended his life anytime he wanted to, but he wanted to die. You guys actually believe Ig amped Natsu was close to Zeref tier?

Any I do believe he wins but it's not a stomp. Igneel ain't beating the entire S12 at the same time especially half dead, he isn't on Acno's real tier level as stated by Zeref in Chapter 436. Zeref alone is probably stronger than Igneel, but all 12 + Zeref at the same time is overkill.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 12, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 12, 2017 ---

The roar that Igneel used against Acnologia which made Cana comment that "Sun has fallen from the sky" is enough to take down all of them at once.

That was anime only and a hyperbole.

 

[Seven777]

You guys actually believe Ig amped Natsu was close to Zeref tier?

Above actually imo, immortality was the only reason Zeref was capable of hanging in there so long, in terms of firepower and combat ability Ignatsu is well above Zeref.
Take away Zeref's immortality and just have Zeref fight Natsu with his own power and Ignatsu would have eradicated him long before Zeref got the chance to explain how Natsu got to the future.

Zeref was trying, thats why he was shooting shit at Natsu, even gave him that scar he now sports

Zeref alone cant even come close to the guy that took Acnologia's arm.

 

[Arjuna]

Little of Ig's power wasn't the actual reason Natsu was beating Zeref. Ig had the power of the dead which might've killed Zeref, but you also have to remember Zeref was actually not even trying against Natsu. He could've ended his life anytime he wanted to, but he wanted to die. You guys actually believe Ig amped Natsu was close to Zeref tier?

Any I do believe he wins but it's not a stomp. Igneel ain't beating the entire S12 at the same time especially half dead, he isn't on Acno's real tier level as stated by Zeref in Chapter 436. Zeref alone is probably stronger than Igneel, but all 12 + Zeref at the same time is overkill.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 12, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 12, 2017 ---

That was anime only and a hyperbole.

My mistake then.But the island level roar he used on Acnologia,which i believe was shown in the Manga,is enough to destroy all 3 of them.

 

[Jko]

Above actually imo, immortality was the only reason Zeref was capable of hanging in there so long, in terms of firepower and combat ability Ignatsu is well above Zeref.
Take away Zeref's immortality and just have Zeref fight Natsu with his own power and Ignatsu would have eradicated him long before Zeref got the chance to explain how Natsu got to the future.

Zeref was trying, thats why he was shooting shit at Natsu, even gave him that scar he now sports

Zeref alone cant even come close to the guy that took Acnologia's arm.

What? You actually think Ig Natsu could contend with a serious Zeref? Timestop would've ended the fight in less than a second. Full power let alone a trying Zeref hasn't been shown for a reason. Zeref would stomp Ig Natsu and FT at the same time if he was serious.

He was crying and letting Natsu hit him that's trying?

Acno wasn't even trying in that fight... and he already beat a full powered Igneel.

 

[Seven777]

What? You actually think Ig Natsu could contend with a serious Zeref? Timestop would've ended the fight in less than a second. Full power let alone a trying Zeref hasn't been shown for a reason. Zeref's MP levels can't even be read by regular mages much like Acno's. Zeref wcould stomp Ig Natsu and FT at the same time if he was serious.

He was crying and letting Natsu hit him that's trying?

Acno wasn't even trying in that fight... and he already beat a full powered Igneel.

No, i actually think Ignatsu could kill a serious Zeref.
Zeref hasnt time stopped anyone other than the fodder demons he created.
Who cares about MP levels? Warrod could sense Acno's MP.

Zeref would lose to Ignatsu alone, high diff.
Without his immortality, mid diff.
Or you could let Zeref keep his immortality and just remove the time limit on Ignatsu and he doesnt even need to enter FDK mode to win

 

[Nemispelled]

Igneel stomps, and he stomps hard. Igneel lasted at least 20 minutes against dragon Acnologia. At the end of the 20 minutes, Igneel actually managed to knock Acnologia down and pin him. In their second bout, Igneel managed to tear off one of Acnologia's arm at the cost of his life. Even after all of that, he still had enough magical power left to allow Natsu to kill Zeref. Honestly, the roar he used against Acnologia is more than enough to end this, and an actual bite would be lethal. Igneel was on Acnologia's level, or at least can operate on his level for 20 minutes. Acnologia is stronger than the entire Alvarez Empire.

END was immune to Dimaria's timestop. The reason Dimaria gave for this was because END was a power beyond the gods. Brandish also said that END was a power beyond her own magical power, and Brandish's mp levels should be similar to Dimaria's. Igneel was stronger than END, and so I see no reason why he wouldn't be immune to time stop. Even if Age Seal works on Igneel, with the exception of maybe Irene, nobody on this list even has the means of damaging him. This is assuming that Irene still uses dragon slaying magic. Dimaria and Brandish can hack at Igneel all day long, and I doubt it would even scratch him. As far as I'm concerned, Igneel can pull an Elfman vs Bacus and simply exhaust Dimaria and Brandish by taking their attacks.

I pretty much mostly agree with everything regarding Igneel no diffing these mages except for the part where you said "END was immune to Dimaria's timestop because his power was beyond the gods."

It wasn't actually END who oneshotted Dimaria while time was stopped. It was actually Base Natsu:

Spoiler: Base Natsu after Dimaria was already oneshotted

As you can see in the panel above, Natsu was still in base form and had no signs of entering into END mode yet. His mind also seemed relatively controlled since he was talking with Lucy like he always does.

Natsu turned END when he assumed that Lucy died by Dimaria, which is shown in the panel when his eyes turn completely white or something. But in terms of oneshotting Dimaria while time was stopped, Natsu was still in base form as far as we know.

Pretty much, even the extent of Base Natsu's power is beyond Dimaria's time-stopping magic. END being a "power beyond the gods" doesn't really have anything to do with the reason why Natsu could still move while time was stopped.

You can call it "Enraged" base Natsu, but I don't really care to distinguish between the two. As far as I'm concerned, it's still base Natsu. Pretty much, anybody with the equivalent of Base Natsu's power is capable of nullifying Dimaria's timestop.

 

[Seven777]

I pretty much mostly agree with everything regarding Igneel no diffing these mages except for the part where you said "END was immune to Dimaria's timestop because his power was beyond the gods."

It wasn't actually END who oneshotted Dimaria while time was stopped. It was actually Base Natsu:

Spoiler: Base Natsu after Dimaria was already oneshotted

As you can see in the panel above, Natsu was still in base form and had no signs of entering into END mode yet. His mind also seemed relatively controlled since he was talking with Lucy like he always does.

Natsu turned END when he assumed that Lucy died by Dimaria, which is shown in the panel when his eyes turn completely white or something. But in terms of oneshotting Dimaria while time was stopped, Natsu was still in base form as far as we know.

Pretty much, even the extent of Base Natsu's power is beyond Dimaria's time-stopping magic. END being a "power beyond the gods" doesn't really have anything to do with the reason why Natsu could still move while time was stopped.

You can call it "Enraged" base Natsu, but I don't really care to distinguish between the two. As far as I'm concerned, it's still base Natsu. Pretty much, anybody with the equivalent of Base Natsu's power is capable of nullifying Dimaria's timestop.

You're getting too caught up in the details dude, Mashima had Dimaria say it was END because thats what he wants us to think.
At best what you pointed out is a plothole.
Plus you can see in Dimaria's flashback, the black flames of END
Oh, and Natsu doesnt always look like END, even when fighting

Spoiler

Look at the bottom panels.

 

[Nemispelled]

You're getting too caught up in the details dude, Mashima had Dimaria say it was END because thats what he wants us to think.
At best what you pointed out is a plothole.
Plus you can see in Dimaria's flashback, the black flames of END
Oh, and Natsu doesnt always look like END, even when fighting

Spoiler

Look at the bottom panels.

The black flames you see in Dimaria's panel was just her witnessing the transformation from Natsu to END. She was already beaten at that point. It wasn't the exact moment where she got oneshotted.

When she got oneshotted, it was still base Natsu like the panel above. Mashima wanted to make it clear that Natsu turned END after he assumed Lucy died.

It was his feelings for seeing Lucy "dead" that made him transform... not his anger towards Dimaria trying to kill Lucy during the timestop.

Base Natsu was still able to move, for END, it would be even easier. I'm just pointing out that "power beyond the gods" doesn't really mean you can counter Dimaria's timestop.

A lot of people have "power beyond the gods" if they can defeat the War God, Ikatsusunagi... but that doesn't mean they can nullify Dimaria's time-stopping magic.


Natsu's face when he is END is clearly different than his normal face. The eyes, shadows, and teeth are all drawn differently.

Also, again, Natsu's attitude in END form is completely different than his regular attitude. When he is END, all he wants is to reach Zeref. But in the panel with Dimaria, he was still concerned about Lucy and was talking to Lucy like his regular self would do.

 

[Seven777]

The black flames you see in Dimaria's panel was just her witnessing the transformation from Natsu to END. She was already beaten at that point. It wasn't the exact moment where she got oneshotted.

When she got oneshotted, it was still base Natsu like the panel above. Mashima wanted to make it clear that Natsu turned END after he assumed Lucy died.

It was his feelings for seeing Lucy "dead" that made him transform... not his anger towards Dimaria trying to kill Lucy during the timestop.

Base Natsu was still able to move, for END, it would be even easier. I'm just pointing out that "power beyond the gods" doesn't really mean you can counter Dimaria's timestop.

A lot of people have "power beyond the gods" if they can defeat the War God, Ikatsusunagi... but that doesn't mean they can nullify Dimaria's time-stopping magic.


Natsu's face when he is END is clearly different than his normal face. The eyes, shadows, and teeth are all drawn differently.

Also, again, Natsu's attitude in END form is completely different than his regular attitude. When he is END, all he wants is to reach Zeref. But in the panel with Dimaria, he was still concerned about Lucy and was talking to Lucy like his regular self would do.

Dimaria specifically said that it could only be END. I seriously doubt that what Dimaria was flashback to was just Natsu transforming, otherwise that would be what was shown, not a hand poised to attack.

Natsu's rage at Dimaria taking out Lucy had to be the trigger for the END transformation because its the only way he could break free of his magic binding cuffs.

Lets also not forget the effect Lucy has on Natsu, seeing her instantly turns Natsu back to normal, which is probably what happened after he fought Dimaria. Realising that she was dead is probably what turned him back into END

I think by power beyond gods she meant beyond Chronos, who is probably above Ikusatsunagi.

Natsu's face isnt always different

Spoiler

 

[Arjuna]

The black flames you see in Dimaria's panel was just her witnessing the transformation from Natsu to END. She was already beaten at that point. It wasn't the exact moment where she got oneshotted.

When she got oneshotted, it was still base Natsu like the panel above. Mashima wanted to make it clear that Natsu turned END after he assumed Lucy died.

It was his feelings for seeing Lucy "dead" that made him transform... not his anger towards Dimaria trying to kill Lucy during the timestop.

Base Natsu was still able to move, for END, it would be even easier. I'm just pointing out that "power beyond the gods" doesn't really mean you can counter Dimaria's timestop.

A lot of people have "power beyond the gods" if they can defeat the War God, Ikatsusunagi... but that doesn't mean they can nullify Dimaria's time-stopping magic.


Natsu's face when he is END is clearly different than his normal face. The eyes, shadows, and teeth are all drawn differently.

Also, again, Natsu's attitude in END form is completely different than his regular attitude. When he is END, all he wants is to reach Zeref. But in the panel with Dimaria, he was still concerned about Lucy and was talking to Lucy like his regular self would do.

We really don't know what happened there.Dimaria specifically mentioned END and seeing that frontal portion was burned i assume it was this was done after this scene as Natsu came from the back to save Lucy.And also Dimaria's flashback has Black Flame Curses.

And i seriously doubt Base Natsu can stop Age Seal.

 

[Jko]

We really don't know what happened there.Dimaria specifically mentioned END and seeing that frontal portion was burned i assume it was this was done after this scene as Natsu came from the back to save Lucy.And also Dimaria's flashback has Black Flame Curses.

And i seriously doubt Base Natsu can stop Age Seal.

People also seem to forget the fact base Natsu can't get out of Magic Sealing cuffs lol.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Little of Ig's power wasn't the actual reason Natsu was beating Zeref. Ig had the power of the dead which might've killed Zeref, but you also have to remember Zeref was actually not even trying against Natsu. He could've ended his life anytime he wanted to, but he wanted to die. You guys actually believe Ig amped Natsu was close to Zeref tier?

Any I do believe he wins but it's not a stomp. Igneel ain't beating the entire S12 at the same time especially half dead, he isn't on Acno's real tier level as stated by Zeref in Chapter 436. Zeref alone is probably stronger than Igneel, but all 12 + Zeref at the same time is overkill.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 12, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 12, 2017 ---

That was anime only and a hyperbole.

ZEREF ALONE STRONGER? Zeref wouldn't dare fight Acno yet Igneel tore his limb off. Zeref has been said he DOESN'T want to die anymore so saying he could easily beat Natsu is baseless. As for chapter 436, Zeref says that Acno hasn't fought someone with everything he had, not that he wasn't on his tier seeing how Fighting all out =/= Fighting seriously. Igneel could take the whole S12 let alone the 3 in this match.

 

[Doughboy]

It's a fair point that Acnologia was fighting seriously, I forgot. I just think it's not really factual to say he'll take them out with one roar. I'm still not too sure on that theory on "people being stronger than Dimaria means they can bypass Age Seal" for all we know that was just because END is END, you know Zeref's strongest Etherious. Not hard to believe he can bypass cause he can bypass. Brandish could still reduce Igneel's fire and/or Irene can combat it. An enlarged enchanted Brandish can at least---at least---physically match up Igneel. This is all not even factoring Dragon Irene, which we have seen feats on her. Destroyed a whole kingdom.

 

[Static]

It's a fair point that Acnologia was fighting seriously, I forgot. I just think it's not really factual to say he'll take them out with one roar. I'm still not too sure on that theory on "people being stronger than Dimaria means they can bypass Age Seal" for all we know that was just because END is END, you know Zeref's strongest Etherious. Not hard to believe he can bypass cause he can bypass. Brandish could still reduce Igneel's fire and/or Irene can combat it. An enlarged enchanted Brandish can at least---at least---physically match up Igneel. This is all not even factoring Dragon Irene, which we have seen feats on her. Destroyed a whole kingdom.

She never destroyed a whole kingdom, only the castle. And it was with a roar, not physical attacks.

 

[Arjuna]

It's a fair point that Acnologia was fighting seriously, I forgot. I just think it's not really factual to say he'll take them out with one roar. I'm still not too sure on that theory on "people being stronger than Dimaria means they can bypass Age Seal" for all we know that was just because END is END, you know Zeref's strongest Etherious. Not hard to believe he can bypass cause he can bypass. Brandish could still reduce Igneel's fire and/or Irene can combat it. An enlarged enchanted Brandish can at least---at least---physically match up Igneel. This is all not even factoring Dragon Irene, which we have seen feats on her. Destroyed a whole kingdom.

Well it would have been speculation if not Dimaria herself said that END is stronger than Chronos and so he resisted Age Seal.


And we know Brandish could not use Command T on END because his Curse Power far surpasses Randy's Magic Power.So it is natural that Igneel who is stronger than END should be immune to Command T too.