Hangout Berserk General Discussion Thread

[hills100]

I can understand his comment of Berserk being painful because of the amount of care taken for every single nuance in every single page that creates a highly slow pace and put a cloud on Muira's talent.

Oda has the art and the story-line all in his head. The drawing style expresses his talent and story is told with subtlety. Torishima is telling Muira to be like Oda.

When he talks about volume 13, Torishima is referring to the catharsis pertaining to the carnage about all the acquainted and relished characters.. It's the feelings that were completely released there. After that Muira turned slightly towards his mechanical side where he became self-critical.

Really, he should have been in young jump.

This is my opinion of the matter:
I don't think his comment about Berserk being painful referred to the amount of care and nuance in each panel which was referred to separately later on in the interview. No, Miura refers to the story itself and the characters and what happened with Griffith and the eclipse as well as the emotions conveyed there by Miura. It was too painful in that regard. Of course i completely disagree with Torishima comments towards Miura because he "criticized" him on the points Miura should never change about himself and not the things that he needs to improve about Berserk and there are things he can be criticized especially regarding post Griffith revival arcs but not the the best parts about himself and his work. Miura didn't turn toward his mechanical side after that volume, he was always a perfectionist, always cared and was always self critical. It's his extra care and perfectionism as well as pure talent that allowed him to create arguably one of the best if not the best manga and elevate it to the level of a literature masterpiece.
Torishima is the complete opposite to Miura in terms of personality, and it's clear from that interview that he doesn't understand Miura point of view or doesn't want to understand it.He's someone who doesn't understand his talent, it's point of origin as well as Miura's "purity". If it was up to Torishima we wouldn't have gotten the epic masterpiece that is Berserk as he himself conveys with his own words about the things he would have done with it had it been up to him, during the conversation. I have some criticism toward Oda's work in One Piece, the story is excellent yes but he completely disregards the art and overall presentation and i think he could have shortened and cut his dialogue quite a bit. HXH is perhaps similar in that regard but is a far better example of someone who cares less about the backgrounds and yet the story and characters are made with such care and level of sophistication that shows the genius of Togashi and his talent.
However,Miura shouldn't be like them but himself, if anything he should return to the same level of of commitment and perfectionism that characterized him in the early stages of Berserk, though at his age it might be impossible. Miura gave the respect he "needs" to give during the conversation,however i hope he will continue to act as he always had and be confident in himself, his talent and the masterpiece that he had created and continues to do so.

 

[smokeesid]

iura didn't turn toward his mechanical side after that volume, he was always a perfectionist, always cared and was always self critical. It's his extra care and perfectionism as well as pure talent that allowed him to create arguably one of the best if not the best manga and elevate it to the level of a literature masterpiece.

I will talk about the artwork. Until the eclipse, the artwork was more focused on the shots of the characters without caring much about the details. And it beautifully worked. The way we connected to those characters was special. That nuanced care was absent and we were focused on the characters. Muira's talent in the character portrayal shines in the expression of emotions. And also there is the pace. It's great but the reader is so immersed in it that he doesn't literally care about the exquisiteness of the artwork. So it was better to keep that focus on the characters in a panel which was enough in the Golden Age to create a tense, anxiety ridden and powerful narrative


I think we are taking the artwork as an excuse to support Muira. Because his artwork is not contributing much to the quality of the story and the characters.

 

[hills100]

I will talk about the artwork. Until the eclipse, the artwork was more focused on the shots of the characters without caring much about the details. And it beautifully worked. The way we connected to those characters was special. That nuanced care was absent and we were focused on the characters. Muira's talent in the character portrayal shines in the expression of emotions. And also there is the pace. It's great but the reader is so immersed in it that he doesn't literally care about the exquisiteness of the artwork. So it was better to keep that focus on the characters in a panel which was enough in the Golden Age to create a tense, anxiety ridden and powerful narrative


I think we are taking the artwork as an excuse to support Muira. Because his artwork is not contributing much to the quality of the story and the characters.

I can't say i disagree, you're right, though i feel he always cared about the little details, but the focus was different back then. Things have truly changed, once Griffith was revived at the end of The conviction arc ( The conviction arc itself was great and one of the best arcs in Berserk ; it was on the level of the early arcs).The main reason for that change isn't the artwork or the focus on it, it's simply the result of a greater problem - the lack of direction within the story which affected the pace as well. Miura - in my opinion - has lost the direction of the story and how to continue it and warp it to the level of the early parts of his work. Perhaps that was the reason why he became so focused on the little details and less on the characters themselves and overall narrative.

 

[Battou]

Manga awards 2017 Have begun Be sure to nominate your favorite manga(s) !!​

 

[xi0]

Getting hyped as fuck for the new run of chapters...

 

[Brandish μ]

The 2017 Manga Awards Semifinals are underway ​

 

[smokeesid]

I can't say i disagree, you're right, though i feel he always cared about the little details, but the focus was different back then. Things have truly changed, once Griffith was revived at the end of The conviction arc ( The conviction arc itself was great and one of the best arcs in Berserk ; it was on the level of the early arcs).The main reason for that change isn't the artwork or the focus on it, it's simply the result of a greater problem - the lack of direction within the story which affected the pace as well. Miura - in my opinion - has lost the direction of the story and how to continue it and warp it to the level of the early parts of his work. Perhaps that was the reason why he became so focused on the little details and less on the characters themselves and overall narrative.

I don't think he has lost the direction. Manga is moving somewhere and that many people can see. The fact that a summary can be put down from the Millennium Falcon to the present as a single line of thought means the manga has moved. The only thing that is different (to put it roughly) is the equal amount of care taken for every detail of the scene. I don't know what Muira is trying to find in his artwork.

 

[hills100]

I don't think he has lost the direction. Manga is moving somewhere and that many people can see. The fact that a summary can be put down from the Millennium Falcon to the present as a single line of thought means the manga has moved. The only thing that is different (to put it roughly) is the equal amount of care taken for every detail of the scene. I don't know what Muira is trying to find in his artwork.

It obviously moves somewhere, and a summery can be put down as you yourself wrote - as a single line of thought - but that also exposes the recent plot as too thin and too stretched out. Miura is definitely searching for something, but in my opinion his attention to detail and changed artistic design to some degree was meant to compensate for his lack of clear creative direction in recent years which may have been solved by now with the new arc which clears the way for - perhaps - the final part of the series. I just feel the road leading to the current important arc was full of creative hurdles for him to surpass.

 

[smokeesid]

My hero academia has twice referred to Berserk by drawing Guts' sword on All Might's shoulder on a color spread and naming the recent chapter as Guts! Let's go! Red Riot!

I wonder how many manga have referred to Berserk to pay appreciation and in which chapter?

By the way about what Muira is really trying to find in his artwork? The artist of Hunter x Hunter once said in his interview (as I have read) that he could never hope to draw as nicely as the artist of Bastard. With his attempt to innovate in his artwork that was great from the beginning, Muira is growing as an artist and setting a watermark that other artist could only hope to touch while inspiring many others.

Berserk isn't popular enough now. But it is the lifetime work of a great artist and STORYTELLER who could have made many manga if he hadn't worked with such assiduous attitude for a long time with such consistency while showing improvements. And that will definitely amount to something.

It's like the popularity of Sachin Tendulkar in India and among Cricket Fans. It's not the point where the journey ends that is important. May be it is the way taken that gives meaning to it and generates immortality. May be that is what Muira is trying to find in his artwork.

 

[Fate_Archer]

It obviously moves somewhere, and a summery can be put down as you yourself wrote - as a single line of thought - but that also exposes the recent plot as too thin and too stretched out. Miura is definitely searching for something, but in my opinion his attention to detail and changed artistic design to some degree was meant to compensate for his lack of clear creative direction in recent years which may have been solved by now with the new arc which clears the way for - perhaps - the final part of the series. I just feel the road leading to the current important arc was full of creative hurdles for him to surpass.

I can't say i disagree, you're right, though i feel he always cared about the little details, but the focus was different back then. Things have truly changed, once Griffith was revived at the end of The conviction arc ( The conviction arc itself was great and one of the best arcs in Berserk ; it was on the level of the early arcs).The main reason for that change isn't the artwork or the focus on it, it's simply the result of a greater problem - the lack of direction within the story which affected the pace as well. Miura - in my opinion - has lost the direction of the story and how to continue it and warp it to the level of the early parts of his work. Perhaps that was the reason why he became so focused on the little details and less on the characters themselves and overall narrative.

I don't think it has lost direction either. The goal was always to reach Elfhelm (or Elf island), the safe haven to cure Caska and keep her safe. From there on the story would supposedly reach an important turning point. If we look at Joseph Campbell's structure of monomyth, Berserk as an epic has been alignning incredibly well, and we might literally be at the "Meeting with the Goddess" stage. It's quite an exciting moment and that may give us an idea of more things to come.

What seems to also have been deliberate, meanwhile at the Millenium Falcon chapter, specially towards the end (and climax) of it, as well as the next arc or chapter (Fantasia), is that Miura wanted to focus even more on world building. Besides showing how much Griffith was influencing world events and ultimately changing it. He's been indeed spending his sweet time on it, even taking detours (Sea God arc and Gut's teenage flashback), all for the sake of enriching his universe, which added with the slow pace of releases may give that sort of impression, as not everyone may enjoy every step and direction he chooses to go. These things, given the slow pace, tend to exponentiate each other.

Other than that he's been as detalistic as ever, as you put it, and there were certainly creative challenges all throughout. From the recent interview the insight that he invests quite some time on his research is quite interesting (but far from surprising if not obvious) and helps to put context on some of these processes.

 

[hills100]

I don't think it has lost direction either. The goal was always to reach Elfhelm (or Elf island), the safe haven to cure Caska and keep her safe. From there on the story would supposedly reach an important turning point. If we look at Joseph Campbell's structure of monomyth, Berserk as an epic has been alignning incredibly well, and we might literally be at the "Meeting with the Goddess" stage. It's quite an exciting moment and that may give us an idea of more things to come.

What seems to also have been deliberate, meanwhile at the Millenium Falcon chapter, specially towards the end (and climax) of it, as well as the next arc or chapter (Fantasia), is that Miura wanted to focus even more on world building. Besides showing how much Griffith was influencing world events and ultimately changing it. He's been indeed spending his sweet time on it, even taking detours (Sea God arc and Gut's teenage flashback), all for the sake of enriching his universe, which added with the slow pace of releases may give that sort of impression, as not everyone may enjoy every step and direction he chooses to go. These things, given the slow pace, tend to exponentiate each other.

Other than that he's been as detalistic as ever, as you put it, and there were certainly creative challenges all throughout. From the recent interview the insight that he invests quite some time on his research is quite interesting (but far from surprising if not obvious) and helps to put context on some of these processes.

I agree with your post, what i meant by "losing direction" wasn't written about the goals themselves. It's clear that reaching Elfheim was the goal and i'm sure the structure of the story and end goals are all clear for Miura. I guess - perhaps - he would have been better had he shorted his "detours" or at the very least written them in such a way that flowed better with the overall structure and with better pace. Now that we've reached this important point in the story, and together with the time distortion aspect of Elfhelm, we might soon enter a pivotal point that will lead us to that final third of the manga and its conclusion.

 

[Demonspeed]

Retailers List Berserk Novel By Anime Scriptwriter Makoto Fukami

Retailers Amazon Japan, Rakuten, and Gamers! are all listing that Kentarou Miura's Berserk manga will get a novel that will ship on June 23 titled Berserk: Honō Ryū no Kishi (Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight).

The retailers list Makoto Fukami and Miura as the authors. Fukami is the series composition writer for the new Berserk series that premiered last year, as well as the continuation that premiered on April 7. Fukami also wrote the script for the Psycho-Pass television anime series and film, and the Resident Evil: Vendetta film. He is also a novelist known for the Young Gun Carnival light novel series.

With such a title I guess it'll be about Grunbeld. The anime should end in June too, I hope Miura won't take a break after this month.

 

[Kiki]

​

Hey guys,

The 2017 Waifu Wars has just started - get your nominations in!​

 

[Futomimi]

Just read the Torishima interview as well as the one from 2000. I think torishima saw that Miura loved griffith like he loved gutts in the golden age. He had written himself into a trap, the events leading up to the eclipse were so poignant. I really sympathized with every character up to that point, one of the most heart wrenching moments in the series was when gattsu returned to save griffith. The aftermath of his decision to leave, especially knowing gattsu had to leave, is what made the eclipse so awful.

So I disagree with torishima, I think the only thing stopping miura is he is afraid to finish the story, gattsu cant get his revenge. Miura still has love for Griffith even though he is irredeemable. Miura has said that the band of the hawk was inspired by his own friends and a rivalry with one friend in particular. The pains of his youth and that raw emotion still haunt him, and he's spent the last couple decades trying to find his purpose in a mad world. If the eclipse was griffiths greatest betrayal of himself it was also Miuras. It's caused him to doubt himself for years, how could I have done that? And we've watched miura try to fill that void, examining human cruelty, the quest for redemption, and the paradox of a perfect world.

In the last chapter, Caskas painful memories are being pieced back together - the golden age through her eyes. If Miura used to see himself in gattsu and Griffith now he sees himself in caska. He's lived another life but now he's forced to return to the unresolved past. I believe he's realized this and it gives me hope that the story will have a good resolution.

I don't think berserk is the greatest story ever written because as torishima said it's a losing battle. It won't ever be relatable to as many people as shakespeare merely because it's delivery is so drawn out. But it's probably the most personal story ever written. What other author wrote for so long that they could contemplate their own writing decisions through their characters?

 

[smokeesid]

May be, Guts won't need the Berserker armor later in the story. What it has done is to make his mind power manifests in his body.

It may happen naturally if we go by the stories of the monks but Guts doesn't have that much time to accomplish it. You may forget the pain initially as the energy is released but you don't have to escape from the pain forever. As the energy is channelized, the pain is only momentarily experienced in a calm fashion without stupid thoughts. And after that moment, the pain fades with the advent of pleasure to keep the balance.

So skull knight continued to wear it because it provided an escape. But for Guts, if he cannot forget the pain, then he is gonna beat it. That pain is nothing but the disturbance that he faces. It's the same disturbance that gives birth to human ego in an individual.

And if that is true then Skull Knight only has his past ego in the body of an astral creature. With only one difference, that he is not bound to the God Hands.

 

[Spirit]

Berserk will be going on hiatus until Winter.

http://www.moetron.com/post/162042061273/berserk-manga-series-is-back-on-hiatus-until

 

[THM Nindo]

Berserk will be going on hiatus until Winter.

http://www.moetron.com/post/162042061273/berserk-manga-series-is-back-on-hiatus-until

As expected...
Miura likes to write just enough chapters to make a new tankobon and then he takes a break...

It sucks though, because we've been waiting for years to finally see Casca back!
Seems like we'll have to wait a few more months...

 

[Drmke]

Oh well, we're used to it lol just another day in the life of a Berserk fan.

 

[Fate_Archer]

May be, Guts won't need the Berserker armor later in the story. What it has done is to make his mind power manifests in his body.

It may happen naturally if we go by the stories of the monks but Guts doesn't have that much time to accomplish it. You may forget the pain initially as the energy is released but you don't have to escape from the pain forever. As the energy is channelized, the pain is only momentarily experienced in a calm fashion without stupid thoughts. And after that moment, the pain fades with the advent of pleasure to keep the balance.

It took me a while and a bunch of re-reads of your second paragraph to realize you seem to be either doing a parallel or equalling the way the armor works with what I imagine would be buddhist or similar teachings. Interesting way to see it, although I think it's actually simpler than that.

I had a similar thought once, but what has made me think Guts might not use the Berserker armor anymore is that it's literally destroying his body and senses (besides the ever present risk of losing his mind and sanity as well). I remember back in the boat he was already starting to feel some of his senses numbing or fading (it was foretold by Skullknight as well). Since they are on Elfhelm and the armor was made by the dwarves, we should hear something about it eventually. I was thinking maybe he'd be able to be equipped with something effective but less destructive (like Skull's armor), but on the other hand the armor he wears now is very powerful, so it's hard to see it being left behind in the story. And it has become maybe too iconic, quite a few volume covers feature Guts in it. Its introduction in the story was also one of the most fantastic and superbly executed conceptual namedrops ever done.

If he drops the armor, I think Elfhelm would be the place to leave it behind, but I feel he'll keep it for the rest of the journey, probably with a better understanding of it (and lots of safety seals, charms or talismans).

So skull knight continued to wear it because it provided an escape. But for Guts, if he cannot forget the pain, then he is gonna beat it. That pain is nothing but the disturbance that he faces. It's the same disturbance that gives birth to human ego in an individual.

And if that is true then Skull Knight only has his past ego in the body of an astral creature. With only one difference, that he is not bound to the God Hands.

Following what I think is the reasoning here, would that be suffering? I think Berserk, despite its western inspired setting, may have a couple elements that reference to Buddhist concepts and lore too. I'm curious, where else do you see them?

 

[smokeesid]

It took me a while and a bunch of re-reads of your second paragraph to realize you seem to be either doing a parallel or equalling the way the armor works with what I imagine would be buddhist or similar teachings. Interesting way to see it, although I think it's actually simpler than that.

I had a similar thought once, but what has made me think Guts might not use the Berserker armor anymore is that it's literally destroying his body and senses (besides the ever present risk of losing his mind and sanity as well). I remember back in the boat he was already starting to feel some of his senses numbing or fading (it was foretold by Skullknight as well). Since they are on Elfhelm and the armor was made by the dwarves, we should hear something about it eventually. I was thinking maybe he'd be able to be equipped with something effective but less destructive (like Skull's armor), but on the other hand the armor he wears now is very powerful, so it's hard to see it being left behind in the story. And it has become maybe too iconic, quite a few volume covers feature Guts in it. Its introduction in the story was also one of the most fantastic and superbly executed conceptual namedrops ever done.

If he drops the armor, I think Elfhelm would be the place to leave it behind, but I feel he'll keep it for the rest of the journey, probably with a better understanding of it (and lots of safety seals, charms or talismans).

According to Berserk, causality is a spiral, Skull knight continued to wear it and he is aware of the consequences.If Guts has the same personality of Skullknight then there is bound to be some improvement that would make him different.

Following what I think is the reasoning here, would that be suffering? I think Berserk, despite its western inspired setting, may have a couple elements that reference to Buddhist concepts and lore too. I'm curious, where else do you see them?

It's not Buddhism, it's Hinduism. The stories of monks that have been passed to us by our parents tell us that they were able to break the trees and throw big stones far away. Monks went to the jungle to meditate and discovered the secrets in the form of practical knowledge (It was similar to what Einstein had) and they are the tales of thousands of years ago, when Hinduism was at its purest form. We celebrate Diwali because a king returned to India after spending years in the Jungle and defeating the gifted Carnivorous animals from the help of someone who was half human half monkey, but we don't know when that King existed. And Guts' personality quite matches the depiction of old monks.

No one would believe this because of the state India is in. May be Indians killed the King and suffered the consequences.

Vedas are new in comparison to the age of Hinduism. Ashrams were the practical teachings without making people read the books.May be, the moment THEY started to write, India went to decline

This concept of a destroyed city of old times whose King was Skull Knight matches to the mystery of Mohenjo-daro. And what of the people who lived here before when India was a Jungle.

Hinduism is a mystery. Sanskrit is lost. Vedas are not reliable for me.

According to Hinduism, There are three. Humans can adapt to an environment. There is behavioral, physiological and genetic adaptation. Dharma are the instincts that are present in the animals and all the animals are instinctively driven. But humans have a choice, of listening to the instincts or being ego driven

An individual is born with karma pots to cancel. Karma is an educative force whose purpose is to teach the individual to act in harmony with dharma. Since humans have words, they see the world as divided. That is why the priority is given to the practical knowledge that are translated into words

If the division is an illusion (Maya) then the world is like an ocean and Vishnu floats above it who represents the genetic evolution. That means the birth of a new species who has all the knowledge humans have had accumulated.

So disturbance is actually the ripples that are caused in the ocean. The conclusions that you draw and take them as universal truth creates your intellect which is a set of beliefs. Or your thinking that is centered around "I" (which is only a word) that bounds you to your needs. They defy freedom. Which is the center pillar of Hinduism. But the irony is that Indians have been deprived of freedom for a thousand year

We made books over sex. About how adultery is done. But the culture of almost 15 years ago was the antithesis of that

By the way,my name is Siddharth Singh. It was the name of Buddha as well and he was a Hindu from India