Discussion About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

[uberfayt]

I have just received Volume 33 (which is great btw) and was rereading all the chapters there, then something caught my attention for the first time :

It's about Kurapika's powers. So basically during this period he mentions how he got his brethren's eyes back from all sorts of people, some of which claimed to never let go of the scarlet eyes, yet he Kurapika managed to get them after all. So I was thinking maybe his last power (the one coming from his index finger's chain) has something to do with persuasion.

Indeed Kurapika even looked extremely confident when asked by Mizai about dealing with the 4th prince, and by confident I mean that Kurapika knows he could persuade the prince to hand over the eyes without resorting to violence, since this is a prince after all so if word got out that a hunter abused him Kakin won't remain quite (this was of course the idea before learning of the succession game).

And finally what really led me to believe Kurapika may be resorting to some special ability, is in chapter 350 when he stresses out to his companions that he needs to get "physically" close to the prince, and he specifically says that if he manages to "shake hands", then the mission would be almost over. I know I may be wrong, but this could be some condition he needs to activate this new power which allows him to deal with "monsters under a human skin" and persuade them to give back his clan's eyes.

What do you guys think ?

 

[shionoro]

I have just received Volume 33 (which is great btw) and was rereading all the chapters there, then something caught my attention for the first time :

It's about Kurapika's powers. So basically during this period he mentions how he got his brethren's eyes back from all sorts of people, some of which claimed to never let go of the scarlet eyes, yet he Kurapika managed to get them after all. So I was thinking maybe his last power (the one coming from his index finger's chain) has something to do with persuasion.

Indeed Kurapika even looked extremely confident when asked by Mizai about dealing with the 4th prince, and by confident I mean that Kurapika knows he can persuade the prince to hand over the eyes without resorting to violence, since this is a prince after all so if word got out that a hunter abused him Kakin won't remain quite (this was of course the idea before learning of the succession game).

And finally what really led me to believe Kurapika may be resorting to some special ability, is in chapter 350 when he asks he stresses out to his companions that he needs to get "physically" close to the prince, and he specifically says that if he manages to "shake hands", then the mission was almost over. I know I may be wrong, but this could be some condition he needs to activate this new power which allows him to deal with "mosters under a human skin" and persuade them to give back his clan's eyes.

What do you guys think ?

I think you are absolutely right, good eye!
Before i thought that talk is simply done to hype up kurapika's devotion (making ppl talk by torture), but you are right in that it makes absolutely no sense that he could physically abuse a kakin royal on a ship with the whole organization there to protect him.
While Kurapika is someone who can get hotheaded even against people who he would better stay away from (the rich guy in yorknew for example), doing that to the Kakin royal would mean risking his whole life since capture means he'd never be able to get all eyes.
That is nothing Kurapika would risk.

Either him, or maybe one of his campanions, has an ability like that.

 

[Copy Panda]

I think he meant that because of his dealings with others that involved the eyes, he's experienced enough to obtain the eyes from the prince too without outright attacking him

 

[shionoro]

I think he meant that because of his dealings with others that involved the eyes, he's experienced enough to obtain the eyes from the prince too without outright attacking him

But how do you think he convinced them? Rather obviously, he had to use violence or threats in some cases, and that is off limits with the fourth.

 

[uberfayt]

I think he meant that because of his dealings with others that involved the eyes, he's experienced enough to obtain the eyes from the prince too without outright attacking him

Well initially that is what I thought. However what really tipped me off was that in the fourth page of chapter 350, Kurapika states that ideally he needs a distance allowing him to make physical contact with the prince, then adds the following quote :

"depending on that, I would have several kinds of powers to use and with better quality (*) " ,

and finally he gives the best case scenario which is to "shake hands" with the prince.

The bolded sentences really hint, at least for me, to the eventual use of some nen ability, one involving mind games if I had to guess.

(*) : note that I'm translating from the french version of volume 33.

Spoiler: the quote in french

en fonction de ça, je multiplierai le genre et la qualité du pouvoir à utiliser.

Edit : Here is the official viz translation of the same page :

Spoiler

Either him, or maybe one of his campanions, has an ability like that.

I don't think it would be one of his companions since, again, in chapter 350 he tells his companions they could actually withraw as soon as they allow some sort of contact with the 4th prince.

But how do you think he convinced them? Rather obviously, he had to use violence or threats in some cases, and that is off limits with the fourth.

Yeah exactly, I agree. On top of that if Kurapika would commit an offence against a prince and that goes public, as a hunter himself he would tarnish the whole association.

 

[Demonspeed]

I think he was implying tat he was good at interrogating people(with his powers, torture and stuff), Dowsing Chain is very good for this for example. My guess is that his powers have evolved and he will be able to locate Tserriednich wherever he is if he manages to shake hands with him.

If Kurapika really has an ability which is so useful that it allows him to make the others obey him it's a Manipulation technique, but he never resorted to such things before despite his Emperor Time, he tortured Uvo and was forced to use Judgment Chain on him.

 

[uberfayt]

If Kurapika really has an ability which is so useful that it allows him to make the others obey him it's a Manipulation technique, but he never resorted to such things before despite his Emperor Time, he tortured Uvo and was forced to use Judgment Chain on him.

My guess is that he conceived such an ability after he decided to focus on retrieving his clansmen's eyes, meaning after the York shin arc when his revenge desire got tempered.

Kurapika did mention in chapter 344 that he had used "blackmail, money and spying" to take back the eyes. So from here I can speculate that with some of his targets, none of the above mentioned methods could work, hence this pushed him to develop some kind of abiliy to help him fetch what he wants, preferably without resorting to extreme violence. This hints towards some manipulation ability, as you said, or something which tortures the mind of the target somehow (an example of this would be Tamami Kobayashi's stand ability "The Lock", from JoJo DIU).

 

[howdydodah]

You're on to something there.

He may have developed a hypnotize like ability, since what we know of Kurapica is to choose the most effective route. It may well be possible for him to make a new ability with just shaking hands, since he has ET it would be possible. We must not forget that his chains aren't his only arsenal, according to pure potential he is limitless. So choosing to hypnotize and evade a possible confrontation completely, would be the most probable route for Kurapica IMO.

 

[XXGenesis]

Have ya been reading HxH since its later continuation??

He was bluffing, & all of his Hatsu abilities have been explained now. He has no such manipulation ability, unless he steals one with his stealth chain.

I'm super glad but heavily taken back. I thought I read 1minute not 1second!!!! Emperor Time new explained drawback levels out
Kurapicka's haxxnes but damn. That's a lot of life span to be using.

 

[howdydodah]

"have you been reading"

Yes, and as I've said, his chains and therefore conjuration isn't his only arsenal. He has the potential of a manipulator so he could may well create a condition of touch to manipulate somebody. Although the more realistic approach would be his dowsing chain since it's closer to conjuration/manipulation combo therefore easier to master, but it is most probable as well. He does have some confidence with Bill(Oito's other guard), but it's safe to say that Kurapica is still as distrusting as ever, so it's safe to say his bluff was just a bluff? And there's absolutely no reason for him to lie to his master and the others? scroll top or ch. 350.

It is a lot of lifespan considering he's been at it for, what have you,, minutes? an hour?

 

[XXGenesis]

"have you been reading"

Yes, and as I've said, his chains and therefore conjuration isn't his only arsenal. He has the potential of a manipulator so he could may well create a condition of touch to manipulate somebody. Although the more realistic approach would be his dowsing chain since it's closer to conjuration/manipulation combo therefore easier to master, but it is most probable as well. He does have some confidence with Bill(Oito's other guard), but it's safe to say that Kurapica is still as distrusting as ever, so it's safe to say his bluff was just a bluff? And there's absolutely no reason for him to lie to his master and the others? scroll top or ch. 350.

It is a lot of lifespan considering he's been at it for, what have you,, minutes? an hour?

It's a lot when you think about his total accumilative amount...& given circumstances, he's almost better off wasting the Hatsu than his own life..

& If that what you think, you absolutely entitled to it. I don't think it another Hatsu...Kurapicka's current Hatsu is too conplexed, for him to create a reserve or alternate Hatsu..I believe Hatsu can be tweaked & evolve, but I think he's gonna use his dowsing chain, while talking to the 4th, that's all.

 

[howdydodah]

Certainly a valid opinion, however, if we look at Kurapica's current phase in the perspective of a regular user's whole potential, he is still or should still be at novice level but he is not. At the 6months of training he already made high level hatsus along with 1 that has a very risky condition and from a short period after that already made another one in the form of steel chain. I agree that having mastered 5 high level hatsus should be the limit, but as a specialist whos specialty is the ability to unlock everything then it would be rational to say that it derives from Kurapica's characteristics which is learning, creating, advancing at unknown limits. But of course as you say, it is only my opinion.

 

[Demonspeed]

Theoretically, it should be possible for him to conjure chains on his left hand if his Nen evolves. See Chrollo's Double Face for example.

Kurapika's chains are versatile but that's mainly because of the Conjuration/Specialization combo.

 

[shionoro]

Theoretically, it should be possible for him to conjure chains on his left hand if his Nen evolves. See Chrollo's Double Face for example.

Kurapika's chains are versatile but that's mainly because of the Conjuration/Specialization combo.

It might be that some hatsus are not as easily to tweak as others are.

Chrollo is a guy who modelled his ability after his thirst for knowledge and understanding. Changing things about seems reasonable.
Kurapika modelled his ability about a very concrete mission and with great care and determination behind it.
He was able to leave some fingers free and decide on them later, but i am not sure whether changing even one finger couldnt possibly destroy the whole ability.

 

[kkck]

The wikia has netero's hatsu as emission... Is there a source for that or did they pull it out of his ass?

 

[Demonspeed]

It might be that some hatsus are not as easily to tweak as others are.

Chrollo is a guy who modelled his ability after his thirst for knowledge and understanding. Changing things about seems reasonable.
Kurapika modelled his ability about a very concrete mission and with great care and determination behind it.
He was able to leave some fingers free and decide on them later, but i am not sure whether changing even one finger couldnt possibly destroy the whole ability.

Yes, maybe Kurapika's conditions limit his growth. But he is still a young Nen user. I see Chrollo's Double Face as a natural evolution of Skill Hunter. He has it for years and he must train to be that strong. He had to create new conditions for this too. I assume his mastery of Skill Hunter of his Hatsu is close to perfection, if not perfect.

The ways to develop them must change depending on the category too. Killua's ability seems basic but older Nen users said how incredible it is for him to be able to transmute his aura into electricity at such a young age.

The wikia has netero's hatsu as emission... Is there a source for that or did they pull it out of his ass?

No source. But what else could it be? The Guanyin is no conjured, nor is it linked to his body.

 

[kkck]

No source. But what else could it be? The Guanyin is no conjured, nor is it linked to his body.

My objection to that is that netero is an enhancer. However skilled he might it shouldn't be possible to overcome his 80% emission limit simply because regardless of how much he trains emission, enhancing will always be easier. To add to that, creating the gunayin should invariably require at least 3 nen types total. Emission for obvious reasons, transmutation to shape it like a statue and manipulation to control it. On top of that there is the astonishing power behind it. Netero did not exceed any of the royal guards when it comes to raw power. In fact, he was not even vaguely close. However the guanyin still had it in it to deliver hundreds of thousands of punches non stop without netero running out of energy. Remember when knuckle and gon fought? Knuckle was able to accurately estimate how much nen each of them used in any exchange. Imagine such a thing applying to netero when throwing hundreds of thousands of punches...

So you have a statue which requires 3 nen types which are not netero's main category that on top of that seems to spit in the face of the concept of not being able to use more nen than you have (which hasn't explicitly been mentioned in the manga but we do know for a fact that every nen action has a nen cost and guanyin doesn't seem to give a fuck about it).

And then there are the circumstances under which netero presumably acquired his nen technique. He presumably acquired this during his 10 year training session. However during those ten years netero didn't do anything that could reasonably get him that. He didn't get kannon intentionally. The whole thing was the result of 10 years of non stop abject insanity. And the result was a nen that defies nen types (because it requires two nen types that netero caps at 80% and one where he caps at 60%) and reason (because he is able to throw hundreds of thousands and perhaps millions of punches even though his nen level is basically just high for a human and nowhere near royal guard).

With all of that in mind, I can't bring myself to consider it merely emission because there is just so damn much about that that doesn't make any sense. If you have 100000 worth of nen then that is just about the limit of what you can do with it. You can train a lot with a nen category but you ALWAYS get better results focusing on your own category. And if netero's training at the mountain is what got him kannon then we know for a fact he did absolutely nothing that should have gotten him that. His nen is an oddity which defies classification as we understand it and common sense. With all of that in mind, I can't imagine the hatsu itself being anything other than specialization. Now, if togashi says otherwise then that is fine but I kinda want an explanation....

 

[Demonspeed]

I think I said this several times here. I don't see Netero as an Enhancer, for me he is an Emitter. Netero's Nen category has never been revealed in the manga. He was said to be an Enhancer in the old databook but as you say yourself it doesn't make sense. Unless they reveal in the manga via flashback or something that Netero was an Enhancer, I won't believe it.

Transmutation is not needed. It's not like he could change its shape at will. Razor and Goreinu's abilities are similar. They created Nen creatures with special abilities.

Considering how his ability works, Netero being an Emitter makes perfect sense IMO. Emission for the huge Guanyin and maximum efficiency, different hand motions as trigger for the different Hands(so no Manipulation is needed here) and he can use Manipulation to control the hands and move the Guanyin with him, Enhancement reinforces the attacks more. His strongest move is a Nen blast, undeniably an Emission move. With the 100% in Emission, and 80% in both Enhancement and Manipulation, everything makes sense like that.

I don't think Netero had a Nen ability when he was training in the mountains. What he developed there was the speed of his attacks and prayers especially, which is the key to HK.

 

[kkck]

I think I said this several times here. I don't see Netero as an Enhancer, for me he is an Emitter. Netero's Nen category has never been revealed in the manga. He was said to be an Enhancer in the old databook but as you say yourself it doesn't make sense. Unless they reveal in the manga via flashback or something that Netero was an Enhancer, I won't believe it.

Transmutation is not needed. It's not like he could change its shape at will. Razor and Goreinu's abilities are similar. They created Nen creatures with special abilities.

Considering how his ability works, Netero being an Emitter makes perfect sense IMO. Emission for the huge Guanyin and maximum efficiency, different hand motions as trigger for the different Hands(so no Manipulation is needed here) and he can use Manipulation to control the hands and move the Guanyin with him, Enhancement reinforces the attacks more. His strongest move is a Nen blast, undeniably an Emission move. With the 100% in Emission, and 80% in both Enhancement and Manipulation, everything makes sense like that.

I don't think Netero had a Nen ability when he was training in the mountains. What he developed there was the speed of his attacks and prayers especially, which is the key to HK.

The bold part is precisely why I think netero is indeed an enhancer as the databook suggests. Why not have an ability? Soon after the concept of nen was introduced the point was made that enhancers don't really need complicated hatsu to be effective fighters as they could just use standard techniques to great effect. That is true to the point where even most enhancers we have seen in the manga today basically use ko or enhanced weapons to fight. Take gon and uvogin, their techniques are virtually identical safe for the name. Phinx also has a variation of ko, nobunaga enhances his sword... And so on. In context, it makes perfect sense for netero to not develop a fancy hatsu for fighting as an enhancer. In turn it would be astoundingly ridiculous if he was anything else and didn't develop a hatsu.

Add to that that by the time netero started his insane "training" he was already a powerful nen user. He wasn't a newby off to die lonely in the mountains. He was an accomplished warrior that had already mastered nen.

As for netero not needing manipulation or transmutation for his nen, assuming such things even apply to it, he absolutely does. Shaping nen regardless of what into and context is a properly of transmutation. Heck, the most basic transmutation training is basically shaping your nen into numbers. If even that is transmutation then turning your nen into a statue, a monkey or a sword absolutely is transmutation.

As for manipulation, I don't see how he can get rid of that. You have emitted nen but you need to do stuff with it. The prayer makes sense as a condition to overcome manipulation limitations he might have. According to the wiki even kastro's clone required manipulation and that was a conjured clone... The idea that a nen construct wouldn't require manipulation makes even less sense in this regard.

 

[howdydodah]

I've a different theory.

He trained for months with 1 punching technique, albeit with much concentration, focus and meditation. That's non-stop btw.

So he may could well have transitioned to a Specialist? If you think about it, his bodhisatva doesn't scream logic and as some1 stated needs 3 at best nen categories to pull it off, even then the damage would be 80%, that would require Netero to have extreme levels of nen energy to build up a proper emission.

Rationale:
Specialization nen can be attained through blood lineage, or circumstantial events through ones life time, albeit at extreme conditions.
Netero's training certainly passes as circumstantial and was long enough to warrant him changing in some aspects.
Therefore he put himself in extreme conditions, at a lengthy period of time. Changing some aspects of himself along the way, begin to be increasingly good in one aspect and decreasingly in another. Is it far fetched to say he was trying to attain Specialization? or he was unconsciouly unlocking Specialization while trying to attain perfect offensive form? And that his nen completely evolved over time that his reinforcement aspect was dialed down and opened new pathways for a new kind of aspect to develop?

Evidence:
Due to training he suddenly realized time slowed down for him, but in actuality it was just him perceiving it at a a very slow pace, because his mental faculties and his physicality has finally reached a point where he could do so and that now he has evolved, his nen did too.

Conclusion:
I think Netero successfully transitioned to a Specialist, and I think he did it intentionally, considering his personality.