Game Fan League Discussion Thread

[Seakay]

Regarding Dark Side, I'm still not really sure. Going with Seakay's idea that it should be an inverse Spirit of sorts (or at least that's how I interpreted your suggestion), I almost feel like it would have to decrease the opponent's Speed instead of increasing Amadeus' own. The issue is that a -4 would be incredibly powerful, so I'm don't really know how to handle it yet.

I guess it is an inverse Spirit of sorts with Amadeus trying to be a mirror of Byodoin here. The decrease is powerfully, yeah, but if the ACE effect doesn't check the opponent's Speed, then maybe it's not as bad, right?. You also said that Dark Side did a similar effect to World of Ice, so that would likely be some sort of negation too. That gives us something like this:

Dark Side [Special - Lv 6 - 0.5 STA]:
Activation: Opponent's Serves/Specials with Lv <= 4 are negated.
Data: Opponent's Speed decreases by 4. At the end of the Data Step, Power increases by [???]
Extra: ACE if every opponent's Mental and (Power or Technique?) is less than ???. If ACE, then HP decreases by (the Power boost).

There's a few things to work out here. Negating Lv 4 abilities (Lv 5 with Draconic Descent too) seems about the right level, compared to what Volk, QP, Ryoga and other top players do. I'm not sure what the end step boost should trigger off of then this way, since it's not a Spirit move itself. I think Mental should still be checked for the ACE effect along with something else though. I guess that might tie into changing the ACE effects of Spirit moves themselves too from checking if Mental < 7. Maybe Dark Side could check the opposing stat(s)?

 

[Kaoz]

I think the main problem from the drop isn't the ACE effect (although it's definitely relevant), but rather that there's a big discrepancy between singles and doubles. In singles it's only -4 which isn't very much for a Lv 6 move, but in doubles it's -8. If you add an additional boost to that -8, it's probably too strong.

But yeah, I think we're moving into the right direction here.

 

[Seakay]

Well, the Speed decrease can be lowered in Doubles to make it less effective there. I think, for right now, the Extra part should be similar to that of Glowing Destruction. It checks different stats though. I'm not sure exactly what the HP decrease should be: 9 or 10 seem the right numbers here.

Akutsu loses track of the ball before it reappaears in its oversized form, representing a powerful shot. My idea for the Power boost then is that if Dark Side is too fast for the opponent(s) to comprehend, then it'll increase the impact of the shot. However, I'm not sure how whether it should check an opposing pair's higher or lower Mental in Doubles. Going with the lower stat is a reverse of what Spirit moves check though.

What are people's opinions on this rough draft then?

Dark Side [Special - Lv 6 - 0.5 STA]:
Activation: Opponent's Serves/Specials with Lv <= 4 are negated.
Data: Each opponent's Speed decreases by [4 in Singles | 2 in Doubles]. At the end of the Data Step, if Speed exceeds every opponent's Mental (Doubles: opponent with lower Mental), then Power increases by the difference.
Extra: ACE if every opponent's Power and Mental is less than 11. If ACE, each opponent's HP decreases by 9.

 

[Hardy]

Considering there are 2 players covering the court in doubles, I do believe moves that have Speed checks should be less effective -unless it's checking if the player manages to avoid getting hit. As such, this skill should be treated the same way. Considering the court is slightly bigger in doubles, I can agree with what Sea wrote except for that "2" decrease in doubles, which should imo be "3" instead -unless both of you agree that a 6 decrease total is just too massive.

Having in mind what I wrote in the other thread, I think Akutsu's 8th Conciousness should be something like the Glowing Shot with TnK properties, but that's just me.

Sorry Kaoz if I'm leaving too many conversations unfinished by not replying, you know how I am.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 13, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 13, 2017 ---

Random idea for Irie

Emotive Performance [Counter/Auto (I have no idea)]:

Cannot be copied. Cannot be negated. After losing a doubles match, partner's Mental permanently increases by 1 for the rest of the Season. Cannot work twice on the same character.

 

[Kaoz]

Considering there are 2 players covering the court in doubles, I do believe moves that have Speed checks should be less effective -unless it's checking if the player manages to avoid getting hit.

Well, avoiding the hit is kind of the point here too, isn't it? Regardless, in the name of keeping things more balanced I think the version Seakay posted is essentially fine. I agree with Hardy to do a 3 point Speed decrease, but then I'd say we should check the opponent who has the higher Mental since that's basically the case for ACE effects too.

Having in mind what I wrote in the other thread, I think Akutsu's 8th Conciousness should be something like the Glowing Shot with TnK properties, but that's just me.

I'll respond to this over in the other thread in detail, but the short answer is that I disagree. I do think taking some parts of Glowing Shot moves into the right direction, but I see it as more of a GS (ACE), Spirit (Power boost) and Mental boost hybrid.

Random idea for Irie

I'll buy it if we restrict it to Atobe and the loss is a 0-4.

 

[Hardy]

I'll buy it if we restrict it to Atobe and the loss is a 0-4.

Maybe? I'm not sure why it would be restricted to Atobe, there is a lot of strong minded characters that would react from such a defeat in the same way as Atobe did. Maybe characters with Support Level of at least 2, instead? I can agree with the 4-0 (although, Irie not using specials in the match sounds better, I think).

Edit: I think Atobe's support with Irie should go to 2 btw, 1 seems too low at this point.

 

[Kaoz]

Maybe? I'm not sure why it would be restricted to Atobe, there is a lot of strong minded characters that would react from such a defeat in the same way as Atobe did. Maybe characters with Support Level of at least 2, instead? I can agree with the 4-0 (although, Irie not using specials in the match sounds better, I think).

Edit: I think Atobe's support with Irie should go to 2 btw, 1 seems too low at this point.

Well, it feels like Irie has taken a liking to Atobe in particular, he hasn't really tried to push any of the other MSers the same way. I could see some other criteria too, that's just my preference at the moment. I'm not sure if support lv is what we're looking for here either, it's more like potential I guess.

I'd be ok with raising it.

 

[Hardy]

Well, it feels like Irie has taken a liking to Atobe in particular, he hasn't really tried to push any of the other MSers the same way. I could see some other criteria too, that's just my preference at the moment. I'm not sure if support lv is what we're looking for here either, it's more like potential I guess.

I'd be ok with raising it.

Yeah but if Atobe wasn't in the team, Irie would take someone else under his wing, I believe. Just like him and Oni did with Tokugawa in the past -but Tokugawa is a big boy now '-' .

Uhm, I was centering myself in affinity -like, "omg Irie is suffering because I suck, I must improve"- but that's not what that match was about, I admit. I do think Irie himself would need to feel that affinity himself to actually care about his partner and make his performance, though.

Spoiler

Emotive Performance [Counter/Auto (I have no idea)]:

Cannot be copied. Cannot be negated. After losing a doubles match without winning a single point / not activating any Special (not sure), partner's Mental permanently increases by 1 for the rest of the Season. Support level must be at least 1 (or 2? Idk), and partner's base mental must be at least 5. Cannot work twice on the same character.

But yeah if that sounds too weird you can just limit it to Atobe, sounds fine too.

 

[Kaoz]

Maybe not base Mental, but must have a Mental of 5 or higher on the final point? If you recall, Atobe didn't have 5 Mental when he and Irie played in the team shuffle (and technically he didn't even have that the last time we got official stats, it was only 4.5 then), but we have that Auto that boosts his Mental to 5 once it's dropped to 0. So maybe that or just have a big Mental boost at some point during the match, I think that would work pretty well.

 

[Hardy]

Maybe not base Mental, but must have a Mental of 5 or higher on the final point? If you recall, Atobe didn't have 5 Mental when he and Irie played in the team shuffle (and technically he didn't even have that the last time we got official stats, it was only 4.5 then), but we have that Auto that boosts his Mental to 5 once it's dropped to 0. So maybe that or just have a big Mental boost at some point during the match, I think that would work pretty well.

Sounds great, I really like that idea. Would Mizuki and Yuki as coaches be a problem, though?

 

[Kaoz]

Sounds great, I really like that idea. Would Mizuki and Yuki as coaches be a problem, though?

Hm yeah, I suppose so. Coaches would need to be excluded I guess. I'd allow character specific Reserve abilities to influence it though.

 

[Seakay]

For Amadeus, I think a decrease of 3 in Doubles would be fine and going with Kaoz's other suggestion gives us then:

Spoiler

Dark Side [Special - Lv 6 - 0.5 STA]:
Activation: Opponent's Serves/Specials with Lv <= 4 are negated.
Data: Each opponent's Speed decreases by [4 in Singles | 3 in Doubles]. At the end of the Data Step, if Speed exceeds every opponent's Mental (Doubles: opponent with higher Mental), then Power increases by the difference.
Extra: ACE if every opponent's Power and Mental is less than 11. If ACE, each opponent's HP decreases by 9.

I think this compares well to other Lv 6 moves. The Power boost isn't as high as Spirit abilities and really needs Charisma active to be anything reasonable. But Amadeus having some negotiation abilities is worthwhile and decreasing stats is generally more useful, especially in Doubles where his partner might be able to take advantage of the lowered Speed.

@Kaoz - How would Reverse Advantage work then in Doubles for determining the receiver? Would it just be the server's opposite for their Ad/Deuce position on the other team?

Emotive Performance [Counter/Auto (I have no idea)]:

Cannot be copied. Cannot be negated. After losing a doubles match without winning a single point / not activating any Special (not sure), partner's Mental permanently increases by 1 for the rest of the Season. Support level must be at least 1 (or 2? Idk), and partner's base mental must be at least 5. Cannot work twice on the same character.

I like this idea but it seems too narrow and/or hard to use successfully to me. Can we approach the general theme another way? Irie does take people under his wing like Oni (who has Hell's Guide now) - so maybe Irie could have a Coach/Reserve ability too.

 

[Kaoz]

Maybe we can give him a Reserve and limit it to one character, but still let the player decide who that character is gonna be at the start of the season?

@Kaoz - How would Reverse Advantage work then in Doubles for determining the receiver? Would it just be the server's opposite for their Ad/Deuce position on the other team?

I was thinking all opponents would get the boost.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 14, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 14, 2017 ---

Not a Reserve, but how's this:

Emotive Performance [Auto]:
At the beginning of the season, designate one character with MS as affiliation. Only activates with [character] as partner. Support Lv increases by 1 (max. 3). When not activating any Serves/Specials, after the match, partner's experience is doubled.

So it's limited to one specific character, but not necessarily Atobe.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 16, 2017 ---

@Hardy let's move this over here. The first question is which of the Jimmies would be the tsukkomi and which the boke - or would they come up with something different entirely?

 

[Hardy]

Googled for modern comedy duos, got this as a good reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vic_and_Bob

"Reeves and Mortimer's comedy combines surreal, visually and verbally inventive material with traditional comedy double act staples such as violent, cartoonish slapstick (the duo frequently engage in escalating fights with large frying pans, baseball bats, hammers, etc.), often improvised silly banter (usually at a large, prop-strewn desk) and purposefully corny, rapid-fire jokes. Both at times play the straight man; often Mortimer will play the exasperated foil to Reeves' eccentric buffoon, or Reeves will play blankly bemused or annoyed to a manic or hyperactive Mortimer."

So, something that would be inspired in Shiten's pair, but not quite the same. Wouldn't call it an evolution -cause the Jimmies aren't as... experienced- but an alternative take on it, where both of them constantly switch the comedy roles and even share it at times.

On the other hand, you could say they are pretty terrible at it, due to their jimi-nes, but that's what ironically makes them funny.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 16, 2017 ---

Im eating but there is a "panel" that shows them being funny now, a second.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 16, 2017 ---

...unless I'm missing a reference, but wtv.

Here

There you go. They are the guys wearing feathers over the pool.

Edit: Holy christ tumblr has long posts.

 

[Kaoz]

So my general idea is that their utility could indeed be being able to fill both roles. In case you haven't noticed, which I'm sure most people that read through the abilities did, the boke tends to have moves that can lower the opponents' Mental and the tsukkomi has abilities with Mental checks. I think the Jimmies could have one Formation for each role and then a third one that's unique to them.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 17, 2017 ---

Spoiler: Higashikata

Masami Higashikata [14, SB: 1, HP: 6, AB, R]
(SPE: 3, POW: 3, STA: 3, MEN: 2, TEC: 3)

Ghostly Appearance [Auto]:
If any opponent's Mental is 3 or less, their Speed decreases by 1.

Directing Serve [Serve - Lv 2 - 1 STA]:
Activation: Negated if opponent's Technique is 5 or higher, cannot be negated otherwise. If not negated, partner's Specials cannot be negated.
Data: Power increases by 1, Technique increases by 1.
Extra: When checked by an ACE effect, opponent's stats return at -1.

Comedy Tennis - Stand Up [Formation]:
Only activates with Hara, Hitoji, Kurobane or Minami as partner. Whenever an opponent activates a Serve/Special, that opponent's Mental decreases by 1.

Comedy Tennis - Sit Down [Formation]:
Only activates with Amane, Konjiki, Minami or Taira as partner. Whenever an opponent's Mental decreases, Power increases by 1, Technique increases by 1, partner's Power increases by 1, partner's Technique increases by 1.

Spoiler: Minami

Kentaro Minami [14, SB: 1, HP: 6, CP, R]
(SPE: 3, POW: 3, STA: 3, MEN: 2, TEC: 3)

Plain Comedy [Auto]:
Only activates with Higashikata as partner. After winning a point, opponent's Doubles Bonus permanently decreases by 1.

Combination Breaker [Special - Lv 2]:
Activation: Negated if opponent's Speed is 5 or higher or opponent's Support Lv is S, cannot be negated otherwise.
Data: Opponent's Doubles Bonus decreases by [5 - opponent's Support Lv].
Extra: ACE if opponent's Doubles Bonus is less than 8.

Comedy Tennis - Stand Up [Formation]:
Only activates with Hara, Higashikata, Hitoji or Kurobane as partner. Whenever an opponent activates a Serve/Special, that opponent's Mental decreases by 1.

Comedy Tennis - Sit Down [Formation]:
Only activates with Amane, Higashikata, Konjiki or Taira as partner. Whenever an opponent's Mental decreases, Power increases by 1, Technique increases by 1, partner's Power increases by 1, partner's Technique increases by 1.

Comedy Tennis Special [Formation]:
Only activates with Higashikata as partner. Whenever Serve/Special or partner's Serve/Special is negated, Mental permanently increases by 1 and partner's Mental permanently increases by 1. If Mental is 5 or higher and partner's Mental is 5 or higher, opponent's Speed decreases by 2, opponent's Power decreases by 2 and opponent's Technique decreases by 2.

Not sure whether to keep Comedy Tennis Special or instead allow them to use both Stand Up and Sit Down at the same time when paired together. Also, bonus:

Spoiler: Tachibana

Ann Tachibana [11, SB: 1, HP: 3, AB, R]
(SPE: 1, POW: 2, STA: 1, MEN: 4, TEC: 3)

Lioness [Auto]:
Only activates if Power is 5 or higher or with Kippei as partner. Speed increases by 1, Power increases by 1. At the end of the Extra step, ACE if every opponent's combined Speed and Power is less than 9.

Apricot Girl [Auto]:
HP cannot decrease. If a decrease was prevented this way, partner's Mental permanently increases by 1 or [Support Lv] if Support Lv is > 1.

Maiden's Encouragement [Counter]:
Cannot be copied. Triggers before the 1st point. Partner's Stamina increases by 1.

Maiden's Wrath [Counter]:
Triggers whenever partner's HP decreases. Power permanently increases by 1.

 

[Hardy]

Are those videogame references I'm seeing!? (I never got the Apricot thing in the games, is it based on her name?)

Jimmies look fun, although I cannot tell how good or bad they are to the game from a balance perspective.

Why is poor An so slow (and so skilled, for that matter)?

Edit: Irrelevant but she has a move in FTST that reminds me a lot of Fuji's 4th counter. It's a super slow move that for X reason it's super easy to miss -I relate that to Chinen seeing the 4th counter close to him yet at the same time far enough for him not to reach it. Not saying An should have that, just commenting '-'

Maybe something related to her match with Momo as well, so that she doesn't look like a... cheerleader '-'? How she managed to fix his mind, I mean.

 

[Kaoz]

Jimmies look fun, although I cannot tell how good or bad they are to the game from a balance perspective.

Er probably pretty inconsequential to be honest. Like I posted in the other thread a few days ago, there are no really good comedy pairs, so even though the Jimmies can be used with each of the other comedy players, it's never going to be a broken combination of any kind. They're basically good counters against low Mental players.

Why is poor An so slow (and so skilled, for that matter)?

I adapted that from the games too, more or less at least. Stats are pretty inconsequential in her case either way I reckon, she can be a really good doubles partner though I think.

(I never got the Apricot thing in the games, is it based on her name?)

Yeah, it is.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 27, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 22, 2017 ---

I've got a general question. As you've seen, I've been trying to give characters with very low stats some supporting abilities to compensate - most famously Zaizen who has proven his worth for a couple seasons already, but also the likes of Richard, Higashikata and An have their uses in certain situations. Do you feel that, as a result of this, a number of characters in the 16-20 total range are in a sort of weird vacuum where they don't have the stats to keep up with the top guys but also not the additional utility of some of the really weak characters?

 

[Hardy]

Dunno, depends really. Yeah, Zaizen has proven to be useful, but those 3 -and all the group of bottom tier characters for that matter, like Kiraku or Ibu- we've yet to see. On the other hand, in the 16-20 some characters have shown their support worth as well like Sengoku, Yagyuu, Power and Data players, some pairs -the Oshitaris were awesome to me last season for example- , Hiyoshi has a fun formation that can be quite strong-that I only used once cause priorities, but still- David has an unique special, etc... it's more a matter of how you use them really. As long as you don't give them a "main role" -like expecting Tachibana to win a higher singles or WoK itself to carry in D1- but a support role instead, they'll be useful.

That said, of course, there are some that don't fall in any of the categories I mentioned -most of Higa, Kaidou but we are giving him Muga this season I think, Jiro but he's also getting an aura, etc- that could get a bit of love, yeah.

Edit: SHISHIDO

 

[Kaoz]

And now for something completely different (I'll get back to the above sooner or later):

Spoiler: Noah

Noah Dorgias [25, SB: 2, HP: 9, AR, R]
(SPE: 4, POW: 4, STA: 5, MEN: 7, TEC: 5)

Grand Tactician [Coach]:
Receive hints regarding the opponent's line-up.

Dreams of Greatness [Reserve]:
Jay Jay's total increases by 8. Jay Jay's Mental cannot decrease. During decisive points, when checked by an ACE effect, Jay Jay's stats return at +1.

God [Auto]:
Counts as Data Tennis. Cannot be negated. Choose one point. During the chosen point, all Serves/Specials are negated. If a character's Serve/Special is negated this way, after activation that character's Stamina decreases at 200%.

Promotion from Blindness [Counter]:
Triggers before the 1st point. Cannot be copied. Negated during the elimination tournament, cannot be negated otherwise. Speed permanently becomes 1, Power permanently becomes 1, Stamina permanently becomes 3, Mental permanently becomes 7, Technique permanently becomes 2, SB permanently becomes 0, HP becomes 4.

God's Tempo [Special - Lv 7]:
Activation: Cannot be negated. After activation, if an opponent activated a Serve/Special, Lv permanently decreases by 2 (min. 1).
Data: Speed increases by [Lv - opponent's Serve/Special's Lv], Power increases by [Lv - opponent's Serve/Special's Lv], Technique increases by [Lv - opponent's Serve/Special's Lv].

Australian Castling [Formation]:
When receiving for the first time, both partners' Speed increases by 2, every opponent's Speed decreases by 1 and the Extra of all Specials is negated.

I've updated Noah a bit. Most of the build is still based on my initial concept from April, but there are several key modifications:

• Compromise between his stats being gimped due to blindness and him playing normally. I was considering tying the Auto to him playing in matches and gaining levels, but without having tested the level-up system for a season, I don't feel too comfortable with that. A nice bonus with doing it this way is that in a standard 8 player tournament, the "promotion" happens during the eighth round which matches the pawns' promotion following them reaching the eighth row in chess.
• Nerfed God and God's Tempo. The effects are still the same, but there's much less leniency when it comes to the timing.
• Added a modified version of Hardy's Castling Special. My thinking was that since the players switch sides during the Australian Formation, this could basically be a combination of both since it just fits so well thematically. The difference to the regular Australian Formation is that the receiver sets up the point and not the server.
• Finally, the Reserve shows Noah and JJ basically having a Lv 3 support even when they don't play in the same match. I'm planning on giving JJ a similar ability.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 30, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 28, 2017 ---

Spoiler: JJ

Jay Jay Dorgias [25, SB: 3, HP: 9, AB, R]
(SPE: 5, POW: 6, STA: 3, MEN: 7, TEC: 4)

Brotherly Support [Reserve]:
Noah's total increases by 8. Noah's Mental cannot decrease. Choose one additional point with Noah's God.

Australia's Hope [Auto]:
Only activates with Noah as partner. Mental cannot decrease, partner's Mental cannot decrease. Stats cannot decrease through Do-or-Die Gamble. Partner's God's Tempo's Lv decreases at +1.

Mad Dog [Auto]:
Negated if Stamina is 0. At the end of the Server Bonus step, if any opponent's total exceeds total, Speed increases by 1, Mental increases by 1, Technique increases by 1. At the end of the point, if stats increased this way, Stamina decreases by 0.5.

Do-or-Die Gamble [Auto]:
Predict if opponent activates a Special for any number of points. When predicted correctly, Speed increases by 2, Power increases by 1, Technique increases by 3. When predicted incorrectly, Speed decreases by 2, Mental decreases by 2.

Very different from last season. While he lost his Specials, Do-or-Die Gamble essentially is one in disguise anyway. Also, I hope I didn't make the brothers too strong even if they are quite formidable in both singles and doubles if you get both.

 

[Seakay]

While JJ and Noah aren’t quite near the top individually, I think drafting them together might be an incentive to pick them earlier than usual. Their reserve support seems pretty good.

Noah being a Data Tennis player makes sense. Promotion from Blindness is interesting. The other way of doing it would be Noah having low base stats and them getting increased during the elimination tournament instead. I think the way it is now is better, since his higher base total means he can’t sneak into earlier matches (like D2/S3) easily.

Did JJ’s Hidden Tactician prove beneficial last season? That’s probably more a question for Hardy . I think he only was in reserve for two, maybe three rounds. I like the ability staying around anyway.