Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Doughboy]

Being better than Naruto shouldn't be an honor either. Naruto is one of my favorites of all time but it legit has some of the most poorly written characters, not just females, but characters ever. Sakura has been talked about enough but did Tenten even do anything? It got so bad that they had to reduce her to being only talked about in anime fillers. Kishi made every girl driven by a guy which made them have no real backbone. Tsunade was introduced as a Sannin and the greatest medic kunoichi, immense chakra control and a funny personality trait of being a gambler. But she was driven by Dan's death and never truly built on it. Hinata? Naruto. Ino? Sasuke. Temari was easily the best developed girl to me, she had a backbone being she help guide Shikamaru and shake him out of his fear after everyone's close deaths. She was great, never regressed and just kept developing even while gaining a love interest.

 

[Leoat12]

My Hero Academia has a big cast problem, besides Deku and a couple of characters, any of them were developed that well so far, it was not only the female characters, that's what you have to see. There are male character I don't even remember the name! It is a problem with all of them and I don't think it will be solved any time. Horikoshi will not make like Oda and make an arc for each of them, forget it, they are not that important.
Uraraka is not appearing much now, but she will. I'm sure.

 

[ShenGao]

My Hero Academia has a big cast problem, besides Deku and a couple of characters, any of them were developed that well so far, it was not only the female characters, that's what you have to see. There are male character I don't even remember the name! It is a problem with all of them and I don't think it will be solved any time. Horikoshi will not make like Oda and make an arc for each of them, forget it, they are not that important.
Uraraka is not appearing much now, but she will. I'm sure.

Saying that MHA has a big cast problem while at the same time praising One Piece is funny. I'm still waiting for Edward "Whitebeard Jr." Weevil to do anything, you know, 2 years after his first and last appearance.

 

[Nakura]

I think having a 'big cast problem' depends on expectations. If we're using MHA as an example, if we are to look at the main students, 1-A, I've never expected them all to get equal treatment. Therefore, I can't say I'm dissapointed so far, nor do I think it's even necessary. Nevertheless, I think Hori has done a good at bringing several side characters to the front in recent arcs.

 

[xAsum0x]

The cast is very large indeed at this point in the story, but it's not a weakness, it's a strength because they're all interesting with different personalities and abilities. If they weren't, the majority of fans wouldn't have a different fav character every time you ask them. That's why the series is doing well because of the cast.

 

[Mammo]

Gold Future Cup entry #3, Raven Burai (Eiken Kobayashi)

he likes Ashita no Joe and Tekkon Kinkreet so he's /ourboi/

his oneshot was a very cliched mma manga, so far the first oneshot (Gash Bell clone) is the best oneshot imo

 

[Leoat12]

Saying that MHA has a big cast problem while at the same time praising One Piece is funny. I'm still waiting for Edward "Whitebeard Jr." Weevil to do anything, you know, 2 years after his first and last appearance.

I suggest you to reread the post because I didn't praise One Piece in any moment, I was being neutral, it was a comment. One Piece had an arc for each of the most important characters, the crew, to be more precise, all of them had their story told and why they got there, all the crew has already been developed plot wise, now their objetive is to reach their dream along with Luffy, but their past, personality and other important traits were already described in their respective arcs. Well, unless someone is still hiding something like Sanji, then we will have more about the crew members, but otherwise they are not going to change much. Oda chose to do that with the main characters, tell a lot about them all at once, not gradually develop their past and personality throughout the story. Horikoshi is more in the gradual side, I think. However, it was not the point of my post, I meant that Horikoshi will not make an arc for each of the students because they are not that important, they are side characters, the max he will make is a chapter or two like he did with Kirishima. Something will be always lacking because they don't make part of the core, it can't be helped, Horikoshi will not focus in characters that will not aggregate much to Deku, Bakugo, Todoroki and others from the main core.

 

[Mawara]

To say that a manga has better female characters than Naruto isnt really a medal, because that's not a challenge to be better than Kishimoto in that regard.
Saying that BC has better women than MHA on the other hand... is weird. Yes, I've already complaint myself, that I didnt like how Horikoshi complettely shoved his heroines in this arc to the background, but I wouldnt call it bad, per se. Also most women in MHA have unique designs and having personalities. Horikoshi definitely put effort writing & designing most of the ladies, so to say his women are bad feels really undeserved at this point. Though I'm not happy that Ochaka, the female lead, didnt do much besides being the loveinterest of Deku.(And yeah, I know she made up her mind about that before, but since then she still didnt really do much to prove herself in my eyes).
Though it also needs to mention, that a female character having a crush is not a bad thing; It's bad if that is her entire character. That's why I dont mind, for example, that Noelle has a crush on Asta(but why Asta, though?XP), because she has still more personality beyond that. She is overall a decent female character(and she'd be a better protagonist than Asta, too).
I'm also still kind of amused, how JoJo can have one of the best female protagonist in shònen. Until Part 6 most women in the manga were really not worth mentioning, but then came Jolyne, like a candle in the dark.
Funny enough, though I've complained about Kishimoto before, I've also enjoyed Sarada as a character, in her spin off manga. I guess, trying to write a "daughter" made it easier for Kishimoto to write her. Many shounen mangaka seem to struggle to write decent women in their work. Especially Ohba/Obata is really, REALLY bad regarding this.
I think they all should take George R. R. Martins advice to heart: Considering women as people.

 

[SkerllyFC]

2 cour would be much better. I didn't like that MHA got 1 cour for it's first season too and I hope that doesn't become a trend. I think it's a placeholder.

Now is this show produced by Funimation? Because the marketing campaign seems like it. Anyway, it´s a shame that we only got 13 episodes instead of 24-26 for the sake of "faithful, 1:1 adaptation". But if at least we can get a seasonal show, you know, each year a new season, I´m fine.

 

[xAsum0x]

Gold Future Cup entry #3, Raven Burai (Eiken Kobayashi)

he likes Ashita no Joe and Tekkon Kinkreet so he's /ourboi/

his oneshot was a very cliched mma manga, so far the first oneshot (Gash Bell clone) is the best oneshot imo

Pretty disappointing bunch, just want it to end so we can hopefully get some new battle sho-.... new series

 

[Mammo]

hey, all entries so far 3 are battle shonen, so you could read that to pass the time till the next round

there's also the chance one of them actually win the GFC and it will end up in the magazine , although I think the first 2 will fit better in SQ for obvious reasons

 

[razerxs]

I don't want to go into comparisons here but I'll comment anyway. When people ask for female representation in content they're looking to hand out participation trophies. The goal is an active character. Active doesn't mean doing bullshit plot stuff, it mean making decisions and changing as a person.

when she saves 2 students from being killed and helps aide Kirishimas development it's not a major thing?

This right here is the definition of bad representation. Existing as an accessory to a male character's development.

 

[savethecat]

It doesn't really matter in Jump, girls are not the focal point in battle shounen.

Focal point or not, well written female characters should be a priority for writers

 

[Mawara]

I don't want to go into comparisons here but I'll comment anyway. When people ask for female representation in content they're looking to hand out participation trophies. The goal is an active character. Active doesn't mean doing bullshit plot stuff, it mean making decisions and changing as a person.

This right here is the definition of bad representation. Existing as an accessory to a male character's development.

Though I agree, that being used in a flashback for the development of another character isnt really something which deserves much praise-
At least she wasnt needed as a damsel in distress! Kirishima didnt need to save her because "she's a girl, and girls needs boys". The girls in MHA are mostly underused to a worrisome degree, but several boys, too, so I wouldnt call the female presentation of MHA de facto "bad".
I mean, compared to other manga(which I won't say, bc they're obvious), where women either have ridiculous proportions to be used as fanservice, are mostly used as Damsel in Distress and their characters can simply described with "being in love with a boy~<3"-
MHA doesnt do a poor job in that regard-
It still needs improvement, definitely, but we all know very well how much worse this can go.

 

[Leoat12]

Focal point or not, well written female characters should be a priority for writers

Well written characters should be a priority, principally main characters. See the difference?
How female characters should be a priority on a battle shounen?

 

[Mawara]

Focal point or not, well written female characters should be a priority for writers

I agree wholeheartedly.
I mean, Hunter x Hunter is a good example for this. There aren't many women in this manga, but if I do remember the few, who exist in there, they're not bad characters. It's just that Togashi prioritize men/boys as characters in his work, and I really dont mind that much, because at least, when a woman appear in Hunter x Hunter, she's not an insult.

 

[TM2]

I'm not really a fan of referring to characters as accessories,

Context is key here.

Does a character's parents exist as "accessories" to a character's development? How about their friends? Their inspirations?

While I would love for Mina to have some development outside of a flashback. I also feel like its unfair to say its "bad representation" as Mina is not a central character. Also I thought it was clear that Kirishima thought that Mina was in a position he should aspire towards. Not Mina needing to catch up to Kirishima.

 

[xAsum0x]

I don't want to go into comparisons here but I'll comment anyway. When people ask for female representation in content they're looking to hand out participation trophies. The goal is an active character. Active doesn't mean doing bullshit plot stuff, it mean making decisions and changing as a person.

This right here is the definition of bad representation. Existing as an accessory to a male character's development.

She can't aide a character in their development is what you're saying? Can't understand how that's "bad representation". Regardless, she did more than just "exist" in that backstory anyways. And in the end, no the female characters aren't a product of Horikoshis inability to write good ones, they all get moments of shine in ways and development here and there. In this current arc however I would agree that he ignored them, but the arc isn't over yet

 

[shoyoboyo]

Focal point or not, well written female characters should be a priority for writers

They should, but shounen mangaka don't necessarily need to write well written female characters. It's not really the genre that demands it.
Honestly, I don't really judge characters by how "well written" I think they are. I judge them more based on whether or not I enjoy the screen time that they get. And so far, I haven't had a problem with any of the female characters in MHA.

 

[Leoat12]

She can't aide a character in their development is what you're saying? Can't understand how that's "bad representation". Regardless, she did more than just "exist" in that backstory anyways. And in the end, no the female characters aren't a product of Horikoshis inability to write good ones, they all get moments of shine in ways and development here and there. In this current arc however I would agree that he ignored them, but the arc isn't over yet

She can't aid a male character in their development. Fixed.
We know what is going on here, people nowadays thinks it is an insult to have a girl below a boy in any moment in the story. She cannot help a boy, she has to ascend in the story without help of any boy. That's what they mean as "good representation".