Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Tamil]

In fact the censorship is mainly done by TV Station. The animation studio mainly have the decision of still making the scenes and then them getting black-out, or restraining themselves while doing the scenes.

Toriko, was censored, because the main audience always was young kids. Yep, young kids. And you showing a little kid anime on Television with a ton of blood don't really works. In manga you can still get away with it, but in TV? Nope.
And the people that think that Toriko woul be really popular if it was shown at night, is the same people that don't understand why Gintama is so loved by fans in the West, but the series totally flopped here. Or that think that HunterxHunter is the godlier than bread, but the popularity in the West isn't anything worth bragging about.

Yeah and my question is...how often does Toei air WSJ titles at night?

I don't think Toriko would be really popular and/or more popular if it was aired at night. Why are you telling me this?

That's what I've been thinking. There's nothing wrong with appealing to children with Toriko, given that it has the same sense of adventure that you'd find on other series. That was what Toei was capitalizing on, not the bloddshed battles. And if it was done by other studio willing to do it uncensored, it would NEVER reachthe popularity if DBZ or One Piece. It may never will.

Toriko is a niche series, it has a lot of blood/gore which could explain why despite the anime popularity, the manga didn't get that huge of a boost. It's not all about the blood/gore since Toei removed a lot of the world building & the science info dumps since it was aimed towards children. Narrations were completely omitted. There's more but you see how much was sacrificed just to appeal to a children audience?

Even for a children audience I remembered a lot of the gags/goofy faces were gone too at times. It's obvious Toei was just doing this as a "quick" cash grab and like always putting commerce far ahead of passion.

Lmao, Toriko never reached anywhere close to DBZ/OP popularity, what are you on about? No one here claimed that doing it uncensored would increase it's overall popularity.

 

[Scruffy8642]

People talking about Neverland like dialogue-heavy titles have never been animated before...

 

[De La Croissant]

And this characteristic prevents the anime studio to do a faithful adaptation in what way?

The problem is not to be faithful, the problem is to think that being faithful is enough. A passive and merely functional direction (= copy and paste), in my opinion, would be a disservice to Neverland.

 

[Leoat12]

The problem is not to be faithful, the problem is to think that being faithful is enough. A passive and merely functional direction (= copy and paste), in my opinion, would be a disservice to Neverland.

Adapt to a new media is never copy and paste in the strict sense of the phrase. Elements will be introduced to make the story more fluid on an animation, that's obvious since the manga doesn't have all the frames required to make an animation. For example, in The Promised Neverland they are always explaining plans and how they are going to escape, add a map with some arrows to make it easier to visualize would be an addition without making unfaithful. It is just an example, its the job of the production staff to be creative and make the most of the media they are adapting to.

 

[De La Croissant]

Adapt to a new media is never copy and paste in the strict sense of the phrase. Elements will be introduced to make the story more fluid on an animation, that's obvious since the manga doesn't have all the frames required to make an animation. For example, in The Promised Neverland they are always explaining plans and how they are going to escape, add a map with some arrows to make it easier to visualize would be an addition without making unfaithful. It is just an example, its the job of the production staff to be creative and make the most of the media they are adapting to.

You know what? I think I understand why we disagree. The things I see as weaknesses in the original material, you do not see as weaknesses. Maybe that's why the direction for you is not so important. But for me, when the adaptation comes out, if the direction goes in a merely functional way (as well as most Jump adaptations), those flaws will become more apparent. Anyway, enough of talking about what has not happened yet. Let's wait.

 

[Leoat12]

You know what? I think I understand why we disagree. The things I see as weaknesses in the original material, you do not see as weaknesses. Maybe that's why the direction for you is not so important. But for me, when the adaptation comes out, if the direction goes in a merely functional way (as well as most Jump adaptations), those flaws will become more apparent. Anyway, enough of talking about what has not happened yet. Let's wait.

What are the flaws? You are writing a lot, but not saying anything. XD
Anyway, okay, let's wait.

 

[ChocoBar9]

People talking about Neverland like dialogue-heavy titles have never been animated before...

But how much of those dialogue heavy titles are from Jump? The only one that comes to mind is Death Note and the anime adaptation of that is completely different from the manga.

 

[Leoat12]

But how much of those dialogue heavy titles are from Jump? The only one that comes to mind is Death Note and the anime adaptation of that is completely different from the manga.

There is any specific diference?

 

[ChocoBar9]

There is any specific diference?

Biggest difference was tone. Anime went for over the top dramatization and symbolism with scenes that were largely subdued in the manga. Of course there's the infamous chip sequence and other stuff the anime added to make things more exciting in the visual medium.

 

[SharkBait]

But how much of those dialogue heavy titles are from Jump? The only one that comes to mind is Death Note and the anime adaptation of that is completely different from the manga.

Bakuman should count

 

[ChocoBar9]

Bakuman should count

Yeah. It was a very souless adaptation compared to Death Note though and you're better off just reading the manga.

 

[Leoat12]

Biggest difference was tone. Anime went for over the top dramatization and symbolism with scenes that were largely subdued in the manga. Of course there's the infamous chip sequence and other stuff the anime added to make things more exciting in the visual medium.

Not the difference between Death Note anime and manga, but the difference between heavy dialogue titles in Jump and in other magazines.

 

[SharkBait]

Yeah. It was a very souless adaptation compared to Death Note though and you're better off just reading the manga.

But it had best group give one of thebest manga/anime such a good song. And cant forget detective trap

 

[Bigivelfhq]

Yeah and my question is...how often does Toei air WSJ titles at night?

I don't think Toriko would be really popular and/or more popular if it was aired at night. Why are you telling me this?

Toriko is a niche series, it has a lot of blood/gore which could explain why despite the anime popularity, the manga didn't get that huge of a boost. It's not all about the blood/gore since Toei removed a lot of the world building & the science info dumps since it was aimed towards children. Narrations were completely omitted. There's more but you see how much was sacrificed just to appeal to a children audience?

Even for a children audience I remembered a lot of the gags/goofy faces were gone too at times. It's obvious Toei was just doing this as a "quick" cash grab and like always putting commerce far ahead of passion.

Lmao, Toriko never reached anywhere close to DBZ/OP popularity, what are you on about? No one here claimed that doing it uncensored would increase it's overall popularity.

Your point was this "I know any other studio wouldn't censor a lot for a late time slot.", like other studios are different from Toei Animation in the fact that they don't censor while Toei Animation doesn't. Don't try to change the point, like you're hunting for something to talk badly of Toei.

Toei Animation mainly does series that run from Morning to the Evening. They basically only have 1 "branch" doing night anime, and the next night anime doesn't come as soon as the previous one ended.


Do you even know what niche means? Toriko took 3 years to get an anime. Yep, 3 years, it wasn't right after the series started. Do you know how was it doing in the magazine and the volume sales? For what, 2 years got in the 4th series most popular in the Magazine. And it was selling around 200k copies per volume. Before the anime. Being one of the top series of Weekly Shonen Jump and 200,000 copies sold per volume is anything like a niche title. A niche title in Weekly Shonen Jump is something like " Demon Detective Neuro Nōgami", do you know about it? Well it got a MADHOUSE anime adaptation. And it never reached the Top 5 of the magazine nor sold more than 100k copies per volume(in fact I believe it didn't even surpassed 50k).

Is not that Toei transformed Toriko to attract a kid audience, but the fact that Toriko, since the beginning, when there was only the manga, was mainly attracting Kids. In the Magazine and in the volume sales. Toei only kept that in mind and didn't wanted to risk things and change its target audience for the adaptation.

I love when people start talking about the passion, the lack of care and the objective the ones that produced something have. 100% of the time they don't know what they are talking about and are conflating to pretty obvious things, their feelings with everything else involved in creating the product.

"No one here claimed that doing it uncensored would increase it's overall popularity." - No one? What do you think it means to say that the studio destroyed the series because of the censorship? That that if there was no censorship the series would be the same popularity overall?
And sorry, but there were here people that explicitly said that is Toei fault, the censorship and being in the morning opposite of the night, for Toriko not to be more popular.

 

[Tamil]

Your point was this "I know any other studio wouldn't censor a lot for a late time slot.", like other studios are different from Toei Animation in the fact that they don't censor while Toei Animation doesn't. Don't try to change the point, like you're hunting for something to talk badly of Toei.

Yeah and my follow-up question was how often does Toei air at night?

Toei Animation mainly does series that run from Morning to the Evening. They basically only have 1 "branch" doing night anime, and the next night anime doesn't come as soon as the previous one ended.

Thank you. Not a whole lot.

Do you even know what niche means? Toriko took 3 years to get an anime. Yep, 3 years, it wasn't right after the series started. Do you know how was it doing in the magazine and the volume sales? For what, 2 years got in the 4th series most popular in the Magazine. And it was selling around 200k copies per volume. Before the anime. Being one of the top series of Weekly Shonen Jump and 200,000 copies sold per volume is anything like a niche title. A niche title in Weekly Shonen Jump is something like " Demon Detective Neuro Nōgami", do you know about it? Well it got a MADHOUSE anime adaptation. And it never reached the Top 5 of the magazine nor sold more than 100k copies per volume(in fact I believe it didn't even surpassed 50k).

Is not that Toei transformed Toriko to attract a kid audience, but the fact that Toriko, since the beginning, when there was only the manga, was mainly attracting Kids. In the Magazine and in the volume sales. Toei only kept that in mind and didn't wanted to risk things and change its target audience for the adaptation.

Is that why the chief in editor at the time was worried about how Toriko will do at the start? Clearly Toriko had a 80s aesthetic from the start till the end, that is niche since it doesn't appeal to a large audience and more specific. Besides, the main cast are all adults & not to mention it's excessive violence.

Lol. Since Toriko manga was kid friendly at the start, why did Toei censor it heavily? Yes, morning timeslot but they clearly transformed it to for a kid audience by censoring to an absolute extreme. Most of the science world buidling/explanations was completely removed (censored) too. Is that not transforming (dumbing down) for a kid audience? The censorship is more extreme than One Piece's and they ended up bringing it back near the end of the anime run.

Thankfully we got an OVA to compare it to. Toriko's OVA & second episode are completely different in atmosphere. It's obvious that Toei did a lot of transforming. That OVA was a lot more faithful, wouldn't you agree?

Do you have proof that Toriko was attracting mainly kids? Kids as in like under the age of 10? If anything I would guess it's teens (13+) or pre-teens and probably people who were fans of Takeshi that are clearly aren't kids anymore at the start of Toriko's serialization.

I love when people start talking about the passion, the lack of care and the objective the ones that produced something have. 100% of the time they don't know what they are talking about and are conflating to pretty obvious things, their feelings with everything else involved in creating the product.

"No one here claimed that doing it uncensored would increase it's overall popularity." - No one? What do you think it means to say that the studio destroyed the series because of the censorship? That that if there was no censorship the series would be the same popularity overall?
And sorry, but there were here people that explicitly said that is Toei fault, the censorship and being in the morning opposite of the night, for Toriko not to be more popular.

What do I think it means for a studio to destroy a series because of censorship? Bad adaptation. There are people who think Toriko's manga sales would maybe be better had it adapted the material better but that's not part of the discussion.

 

[Halloween]

I honestly think Toriko would have done better if it had a better anime adaptation. That's not even a controversial opinion, most fans think the same way. In fact, I'll take it a step further. I think the series would still be going.

 

[ChocoBar9]

Gray Winter stop arguing with Bigvelfhq. He's a well known Toei shill and will defend any of their decisions regardless of what reality states. The Toriko debacle is something people still make light of to this day on Jump 2ch threads because even they were aware of how shamelessly pushed it was.

Not the difference between Death Note anime and manga, but the difference between heavy dialogue titles in Jump and in other magazines.

Other than the level of hiragana and katakana used in speech bubble nothing much. Jump mangaka and editors use a level kanji that's easy for readers to digest hence why you usually see Jump and other shounen publications read by so many different demos because they're easy to read. For example compare something like Neverland, in which readers were able to decipher what the numbers on their necks stood for 2 volumes in, to something like Biorg Trinity from Ultra Jump which uses a more advance level of hiragana and katakana for the dialogue making it a pain to read through if you're a novice then you'll see a vast difference in how dialogue is conveyed, the only Jump mangaka that tends to mix up hiragana and katakana in his dialogue is Horikoshi but its deliberately used as to not give away what the character's quirks are but there's a portion of readers from Japan who don't like it and find it confusing at times that he's not as deliberate with how certain things work. This is also a reason why Light novels tend to be more popular than regular novels in Japan because they're more easier to digest.

 

[TyVip]

All these Toriko talk reminds me I still need to catch up 30/300+ to go Dx.

Will probably do it once i catch up to BnHa Hideout Raid arc.

 

[Avok]

Toriko anime was trash, just like 90% of what Toei animates nowadays. But even though it was somewhat expected, no one could have predicted they would fuck up on that level.

The OVA by Ufotable is like 10 times better.

 

[Leoat12]

Other than the level of hiragana and katakana used in speech bubble nothing much. Jump mangaka and editors use a level kanji that's easy for readers to digest hence why you usually see Jump and other shounen publications read by so many different demos because they're easy to read. For example compare something like Neverland, in which readers were able to decipher what the numbers on their necks stood for 2 volumes in, to something like Biorg Trinity from Ultra Jump which uses a more advance level of hiragana and katakana for the dialogue making it a pain to read through if you're a novice then you'll see a vast difference in how dialogue is conveyed, the only Jump mangaka that tends to mix up hiragana and katakana in his dialogue is Horikoshi but its deliberately used as to not give away what the character's quirks are but there's a portion of readers from Japan who don't like it and find it confusing at times that he's not as deliberate with how certain things work. This is also a reason why Light novels tend to be more popular than regular novels in Japan because they're more easier to digest.

I understand, but it doesn't have anything to do with animation as far as I'm concerned. In the end what you said that none of the examples of heavy dialogue mangas adapted to anime were from Jump doesn't make much sense. They are the same, in the end... But it is interesting what you said because I don't tend to read Jump mangas in Japanese because I find them harder than from other publishers...