Predictions Blackbeard will end BM

[catagon87]

Originally posted this in the weekly discussion thread, but I thought maybe it deserves its own thread with further elaboration.

If Luffy beats Katakuri and escapes, does he ever have to beat BM at all? I get the feeling with everything in shambles for her that Blackbeard will conveniently show up and end her reign.

What I mean is this: Luffy defeated Cracker, one of three sweets-commanders. Katakuri is her strongest resource (other than herself). Her transponder snails aren't currently working (probably due to fishmen destroying them). The Germa took out probably about 10,000 of her soldiers which should be no small feat (assuming Niji's response was accurately depicting the force BM's crew sent after them). So basically her forces are pretty decimated. She's lost a few kids that she herself has killed.

Her castle and stronghold are in ruins.

The most recent chapter contains the line "A proud king loses his crown".

Her kingdom is ripe for taking by an able-bodied crew (Kaido, Shanks or Blackbeard. Even the WG).

Blackbeard is the most likely candidate, and has been shown to act on impulse (e.g Burgess saying he is injured on Baltigo initiated a huge knee-jerk invasion of the RA Base). He has more than a few reasons to invade her territory.

First off is it's very likely well known that her crew consists of a plethora of strong Devil-fruit users, which Blackbeard happens to be hunting at the moment. Among these being Oven's fruit, the Genie fruit (seemed interesting), and a few others. He may not know about the exact fruits, but he probably makes a safe assumption that any yonko crew has a fair amount of strong Devil Fruits in its ranks.

Blackbeard likely knows that she holds a Road Poneglyph. He is the most opportunistic character in the series. Between Impel Down, taking Crocodile's position, taking advantage of Whitebeard's weakened state, attacking the RA HQ; I can easily foresee Blackbeard making a detour over to Tottoland once Luffy's escapades appear in the news. I could see him arrogantly thanking Luffy too. Oda has dedicated a TON of screen-time to BM and WCI in general. We are more than six months out from the start of the Tea Party. This has definitely become more than a mini-arc. I don't feel like Oda is going to want to dedicate another major arc to the same villain, and Luffy probably isn't going to defeat BM right here. I definitely feel like Blackbeard is going to end her once this arc is over with.

Baron Tamago mentioned that he can't let BM's name be besmirched. His reasoning is definitely deeper than blind pride. If the events that transpired on WCI were to leave, it would indicate to able-bodied parties that her territory, her reign, and her possessions are ripe for taking. BM is definitely formidable and not someone that even Teach could take out "easily", but with her top two commanders out of commission, her surveillance system not working, her first son's arm blown off and probably on his last leg, multiple children killed by none other than BM herself, her castle in ruins (which Morgans actively took pictures of as it was exploding), and the news that all of this was caused by a "single rookie pirate" I feel like it's going to be very obvious that the best chance to ever take out Big Mom is right now. I lean towards Blackbeard over the WG, and Kaido for the reasons mentioned above. Plus, with all the Kaido hype it'd be pretty weird for Luffy to arrive on Wano and the beast not be there. Shanks doesn't strike me as a conquerer. The WG may send CP0, but I'm not sure. I'd imagine CP0 would definitely have a vested interest in stopping the Road Poneglyph from falling into the wrong hands.

Blackbeard clearly wants to be Pirate King and does a decent amount of research (into DF's, but I'm sure that research extends to his goals as well) so he very likely knows the significance of the Road Poneglyphs, and that BM holds one of them.

 

[Athanor]

That is a realy thoughtfull thread, and i share your opinion. I posted this also in the Reerie thread, because i think Blackbeard is the kind of guy, who will take every opportunity of advantage he can get.
And due to Morgans beeing on WCI, Big Moms loss of huge forces will be in the newspapers, where Blackbeard will see the opportunity to take down one big rival and increase his own ambitions by getting an roadponeglyph and maybe some good devilfruits.

After this arc, Big Mom will have fallen.

If Luffy and his allies on WCI don't take Big Mom out, it will be an other Yonkou after the news spread to the world and Blackbeard is the only one, who comes into mind for this kind of action.

He took the opportunity of the fallen Crocodile and the opportunity of a realy weakend Whitebeard so far on purpose. (In Impel Down, he has't known about the bigger than expacted opportunity)
This would just add another point to the list of taken chances.

 

[catagon87]

That is a realy thoughtfull thread, and i share your opinion. I posted this also in the Reerie thread, because i think Blackbeard is the kind of guy, who will take every opportunity of advantage he can get.
And due to Morgans beeing on WCI, Big Moms loss of huge forces will be in the newspapers, where Blackbeard will see the opportunity to take down one big rival and increase his own ambitions by getting an roadponeglyph and maybe some good devilfruits.

After this arc, Big Mom will have fallen.

If Luffy and his allies on WCI don't take Big Mom out, it will be an other Yonkou after the news spread to the world and Blackbeard is the only one, who comes into mind for this kind of action.

He took the opportunity of the fallen Crocodile and the opportunity of a realy weakend Whitebeard so far on purpose. (In Impel Down, he has't known about the bigger than expacted opportunity)
This would just add another point to the list of taken chances.

Yeah. I could easily see Blackbeard doing this. Like I said; he's an opportunist. No way Big Mom could handle his fleet in her current state, either, if her top two fighters are out of commission. I'm assuming that Blackbeard's crew has some insanely strong DF users too.

I think it'd make for an interesting Reverie discussion. They should be most concerned with Luffy and Teach, for sure.

 

[Athanor]

I think it'd make for an interesting Reverie discussion. They should be most concerned with Luffy and Teach, for sure.

I don't think Luffy will have such a huge impact on the Reverie, maybe he will treated like "king" of supernovas and at their lead, but not like the Yonkous or the RA.
The farest point where i can see Luffy currently, is that he could be seen as a candidate for the open spot as a yonkou, if he and his allies beat Big Mom themselves. If Bleakbeard take the opportunity, he will only be more noted due to his relation to the RA, Garp, the Dressrosa incident and his doing before timeskip.

 

[Beagopa]

I don't think Luffy will have such a huge impact on the Reverie, maybe he will treated like "king" of supernovas and at their lead, but not like the Yonkous or the RA.
The farest point where i can see Luffy currently, is that he could be seen as a candidate for the open spot as a yonkou, if he and his allies beat Big Mom themselves. If Bleakbeard take the opportunity, he will only be more noted due to his relation to the RA, Garp, the Dressrosa incident and his doing before timeskip.

At some point the straw hat grand fleet is supposed set in motion a major event. Until that happens I don’t think Luffy is that big a deal in the overall scheme of things.

 

[TitaniumOxide]

Luffy may have a grand fleet but they are all volunteers lol. Luffy won't really care who takes BM's territory I think. The only problem for me is Oda will likely do it off panel...if it happens like last time. But well if Pudding takes over and rallies her siblings, they may be able to survive (and possibly lose everything still).

 

[kkck]

Big mom definitely would be in a weak position right now but there is a crucial element to this that is currently missing: All of what has transpired here would have to be known to big mom's enemies. And even then, taking out big mom's remaining forces would be no small feat even by a fellow yonko.

Her castle being in ruins is not something I think would significantly affect her overall strength. Whole cake island didn't seem like a military fortress anyways nor particularly easy to defend. The biggest loss security while would be not whole cake island but rather the sea network thing. Not too long along no one could so much as approach big mom's territory without big mom herself knowing. Without the sea network big mom has a vast territory over which she is no longer omniscient.

the 10000 strong army being defeated is IMO, not a big issue. At least not a long term issue anyways. The 10000 strong army seemed to have largely consisted of homies. Which while being a good militia it also makes them expendable and easily replaced. Big mom could replace the loss of them in a single day or less. I guess this is partly why she wanted german's technology. Not only she gets to clone who she wants but also she gets an unlimited supply of lifespan.

Anyways what is without a speck of a doubt a big deal is cracker's defeat. In context, cracker's defeat is a bigger deal than crocodile being defeated. It's a bigger deal than moria being defeated (which is why the world government kept it on the down low). It's probably comparable to doflamingo being defeated and that even considers doflamingo was the biggest weapon's dealer in the underworld. Cracker being defeated is a bigger military loss than when ace was captured (though big mom probably wouldn't mobilize her entire force to save his ass, she would merely avenge him). cracker being defeated is the equivalent to someone like jozu or vista being defeated. Considering earlier yet another sweet commander was defeated this is actually pretty bad for big mom. Cracker does seem to be alive though. That said, if his defeat is found out it alone might warrant an attack as you suggest.

Still though, the issue here is time. Even with cracker being incapacitated and big mom's network being down, the sheer military might she has at her territory is nothing to scoff at. She still has 2 sweet commanders, the home field advantage and as many affiliated crews as there are around. Which could be dozens. IMO the requirements for an attack as you suggest to be a possibility two requirements have to be met: The first would be that this leaks out. The second would be that whoever attacks big mom also has the resources conveniently available to pull off a quick attack. We are talking about the grand line here, traveling takes at least several days, if not weeks. The most wildly optimistic scenario I can imagine here would be BB finding out luffy was heading to big mom's territory and figured he could position himself in case strawhat shenanigans give him a break. Barring that his force should still be potentially days, if not weeks away. Not to mention that BB recently attacked the revolutionary army, this would make it two consecutive and risky attacks against powerful forces.

Personally, I think the series is heading for katakuri taking over big mom rather than her crew's obliteration though. And with katakuri the crew would get a clearly less powerful leader yet he would likely also be a smarter one. It would be a similar scenario to when akainu took over the marines. The conscription followed which resulted in the two admiral spots being filled along with the hint of extra savagery that made the marines an even more formidable force to the point where it can keep a manner of control even after kuzan quit.

 

[catagon87]

Big mom definitely would be in a weak position right now but there is a crucial element to this that is currently missing: All of what has transpired here would have to be known to big mom's enemies. And even then, taking out big mom's remaining forces would be no small feat even by a fellow yonko.

Her castle being in ruins is not something I think would significantly affect her overall strength. Whole cake island didn't seem like a military fortress anyways nor particularly easy to defend. The biggest loss security while would be not whole cake island but rather the sea network thing. Not too long along no one could so much as approach big mom's territory without big mom herself knowing. Without the sea network big mom has a vast territory over which she is no longer omniscient.

the 10000 strong army being defeated is IMO, not a big issue. At least not a long term issue anyways. The 10000 strong army seemed to have largely consisted of homies. Which while being a good militia it also makes them expendable and easily replaced. Big mom could replace the loss of them in a single day or less. I guess this is partly why she wanted german's technology. Not only she gets to clone who she wants but also she gets an unlimited supply of lifespan.

Anyways what is without a speck of a doubt a big deal is cracker's defeat. In context, cracker's defeat is a bigger deal than crocodile being defeated. It's a bigger deal than moria being defeated (which is why the world government kept it on the down low). It's probably comparable to doflamingo being defeated and that even considers doflamingo was the biggest weapon's dealer in the underworld. Cracker being defeated is a bigger military loss than when ace was captured (though big mom probably wouldn't mobilize her entire force to save his ass, she would merely avenge him). cracker being defeated is the equivalent to someone like jozu or vista being defeated. Considering earlier yet another sweet commander was defeated this is actually pretty bad for big mom. Cracker does seem to be alive though. That said, if his defeat is found out it alone might warrant an attack as you suggest.

Still though, the issue here is time. Even with cracker being incapacitated and big mom's network being down, the sheer military might she has at her territory is nothing to scoff at. She still has 2 sweet commanders, the home field advantage and as many affiliated crews as there are around. Which could be dozens. IMO the requirements for an attack as you suggest to be a possibility two requirements have to be met: The first would be that this leaks out. The second would be that whoever attacks big mom also has the resources conveniently available to pull off a quick attack. We are talking about the grand line here, traveling takes at least several days, if not weeks. The most wildly optimistic scenario I can imagine here would be BB finding out luffy was heading to big mom's territory and figured he could position himself in case strawhat shenanigans give him a break. Barring that his force should still be potentially days, if not weeks away. Not to mention that BB recently attacked the revolutionary army, this would make it two consecutive and risky attacks against powerful forces.

Personally, I think the series is heading for katakuri taking over big mom rather than her crew's obliteration though. And with katakuri the crew would get a clearly less powerful leader yet he would likely also be a smarter one. It would be a similar scenario to when akainu took over the marines. The conscription followed which resulted in the two admiral spots being filled along with the hint of extra savagery that made the marines an even more formidable force to the point where it can keep a manner of control even after kuzan quit.

Yeah the castle portion is mostly because it seemed like a large effort for Brook and Pedro to infiltrate. I would imagine with it in ruins that her treasure room easier to get to (he'd probably assume she keeps her treasure in her fortress)

This whole prediction is predicated on Katakuri losing. If he doesn't lose it kind of falls apart. He's the most level headed person in the family, so cutting him out is like cutting the head off of a chicken. If he loses against Luffy I think Big Mom's crew is finished. If he beats Luffy I think they can live to see another day and fight Luffy again.

Cracker + Katakuri being down is basically like Whitebeard losing all of his commanders (I'm not holding out on being impressed by Smoothie). Whitebeard was still an effin' beast, but even he couldn't take on the sheer force of a large army with powerful commanders fighting. I'm assuming it'd be the same for Big Mom. One other thing is Blackbeard's fruit is the perfect counter to Big Mom (or any DF, really). I actually am curious how Blackbeard's power would interact with Big Mom.. For instance.. Zeus and Prometheus are a large part of her power, but can she use them if she's engulfed in Teach's darkness? I wonder if him nullifying her power would have any affect on Homies.

The main thing with me is sure, she'd have a strong military force still, even after WCI arc. Blackbeard probably assumes he is going to defeat her and Kaido at some point. I'm assuming if he reads that her forces are crippled than he would take advantage of it (honestly even if Katakuri is still around). He seems to have a pretty huge force himself, or at least last time we saw him it was obvious he had multiple fleets with his original crew and the people from Impel Down delegating out orders and whatnot.

 

[kkck]

Yeah the castle portion is mostly because it seemed like a large effort for Brook and Pedro to infiltrate. I would imagine with it in ruins that her treasure room easier to get to (he'd probably assume she keeps her treasure in her fortress)

This whole prediction is predicated on Katakuri losing. If he doesn't lose it kind of falls apart. He's the most level headed person in the family, so cutting him out is like cutting the head off of a chicken. If he loses against Luffy I think Big Mom's crew is finished. If he beats Luffy I think they can live to see another day and fight Luffy again.

Cracker + Katakuri being down is basically like Whitebeard losing all of his commanders (I'm not holding out on being impressed by Smoothie). Whitebeard was still an effin' beast, but even he couldn't take on the sheer force of a large army with powerful commanders fighting. I'm assuming it'd be the same for Big Mom. One other thing is Blackbeard's fruit is the perfect counter to Big Mom (or any DF, really). I actually am curious how Blackbeard's power would interact with Big Mom.. For instance.. Zeus and Prometheus are a large part of her power, but can she use them if she's engulfed in Teach's darkness? I wonder if him nullifying her power would have any affect on Homies.

The main thing with me is sure, she'd have a strong military force still, even after WCI arc. Blackbeard probably assumes he is going to defeat her and Kaido at some point. I'm assuming if he reads that her forces are crippled than he would take advantage of it (honestly even if Katakuri is still around). He seems to have a pretty huge force himself, or at least last time we saw him it was obvious he had multiple fleets with his original crew and the people from Impel Down delegating out orders and whatnot.

What seemed to do the trick when it comes to big mom's prison is the fact that people were kept in a book. The place itself didn't dangerous or difficult to escape from on its own. At least nothing like ID anyways.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it is the equivalent to loosing all of her commanders. most crews seem comparable in that regards. We haven't seen all of big mom's main children but it seems like her "main" known crewmembers are katakuri, smoothie, cracker, perospero, oven and daifuku. Odds are there are 4 or 5 more people that make up her main offsprings so to speak. Whitebeard had 16 commanders, shanks has about 10 main crewmembers as well and BB seems to have 10 giants IIRC. While we have yet to see her in action, there is no reason for us to doubt her place in the crew or in the world. Loosing cracker and katakuri is without a doubt a huge issue though. This would be completely comparable to WB losing marco and vista.

BB does seem to have a huge force behind him. I guess the big question is whether he himself lives up to the yonko name. We saw him at marineford... and he seemed to be well short of a yonko. After he showed up he along with his crew spent most of the time fighting only sengoku. Which should evidence him being well weaker than most living yonko. I guess he has had 2 years to become stronger though.

 

[Beagopa]

What seemed to do the trick when it comes to big mom's prison is the fact that people were kept in a book. The place itself didn't dangerous or difficult to escape from on its own. At least nothing like ID anyways.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it is the equivalent to loosing all of her commanders. most crews seem comparable in that regards. We haven't seen all of big mom's main children but it seems like her "main" known crewmembers are katakuri, smoothie, cracker, perospero, oven and daifuku. Odds are there are 4 or 5 more people that make up her main offsprings so to speak. Whitebeard had 16 commanders, shanks has about 10 main crewmembers as well and BB seems to have 10 giants IIRC. While we have yet to see her in action, there is no reason for us to doubt her place in the crew or in the world. Loosing cracker and katakuri is without a doubt a huge issue though. This would be completely comparable to WB losing marco and vista.

BB does seem to have a huge force behind him. I guess the big question is whether he himself lives up to the yonko name. We saw him at marineford... and he seemed to be well short of a yonko. After he showed up he along with his crew spent most of the time fighting only sengoku. Which should evidence him being well weaker than most living yonko. I guess he has had 2 years to become stronger though.

In BB’s defense, he tanked massive blows from WB before fighting Sengoku, I think most people, even Yonkos, would find it difficult to look impressive after that.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

In BB’s defense, he tanked massive blows from WB before fighting Sengoku, I think most people, even Yonkos, would find it difficult to look impressive after that.

Blackbeard is so underrated. He took blows from Whitebeard that defeated 2 VAs in 1 attack and he took and 1 from Sengoku I believe. Pretty sure he even had Sengoku injured by the end of the battle and the only person Sengoku fought was Blackbeard.

Everyone looked bad against Whitebeard, even Akainu. Akainu got beat down by a man who went to the war handicapped. Even the other Emperors couldn't defeat Whitebeard, he was in a league of his own.

 

[catagon87]

Blackbeard is so underrated. He took blows from Whitebeard that defeated 2 VAs in 1 attack and he took and 1 from Sengoku I believe. Pretty sure he even had Sengoku injured by the end of the battle and the only person Sengoku fought was Blackbeard.

Everyone looked bad against Whitebeard, even Akainu. Akainu got beat down by a man who went to the war handicapped. Even the other Emperors couldn't defeat Whitebeard, he was in a league of his own.

Not to mention even if he weren't physically strong, he still has the power to nullify Devil Fruits, and to Destroy the world, summon Tsunamis, etc.. That's without us knowing if he has obtained even more DFs in the time skip. His crew has been "hunting" devil fruit users, so maybe? Not that it will happen, but geez... Imagine if he took the Soru Soru no Mi somehow. He'd be effing near-invincible.

Couple the above with the fact that he has those powers AND IS PHYSICALLY STRONG (only visible scar other than missing arm on Shanks is from Teach)..

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Not to mention even if he weren't physically strong, he still has the power to nullify Devil Fruits, and to Destroy the world, summon Tsunamis, etc.. That's without us knowing if he has obtained even more DFs in the time skip. His crew has been "hunting" devil fruit users, so maybe? Not that it will happen, but geez... Imagine if he took the Soru Soru no Mi somehow. He'd be effing near-invincible.

Couple the above with the fact that he has those powers AND IS PHYSICALLY STRONG (only visible scar other than missing arm on Shanks is from Teach)..

There was a databook that stated Oda said that Blackbeard's secret regarding why he can consume 2 DFs was hinted by what Ace said at Banaro.

It seems he's 2 people which is why Luffy referred to him as they and will probably only have 2 DFs imo.

Spoiler

There's also more evidence that implies he's multiple people both in the Manga and Anime: https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/6fd6xn/blackbeard_is_at_least_2_persons_how_so/

It becomes so noticeable espeically if one pays attention to the SFX in the official releases. They add a lot of context to scenes.

 

[catagon87]

There was a databook that stated Oda said that Blackbeard's secret regarding why he can consume 2 DFs was hinted by what Ace said at Banaro.

It seems he's 2 people which is why Luffy referred to him as they and will probably only have 2 DFs imo.

Spoiler

There's also more evidence that implies he's multiple people both in the Manga and Anime: https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/6fd6xn/blackbeard_is_at_least_2_persons_how_so/

It becomes so noticeable espeically if one pays attention to the SFX in the official releases. They add a lot of context to scenes.

I always wondered (based on his Jolly-Roger) if he ate a Cerberus fruit or something of the sort that split him into three people. IIRC Marco said something about his body being different (http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/577/14). I'd like to think that he wasn't finished with just quakes and darkness if the three-man theory is true, and that he needs one last devil fruit to accomplish his goals..

 

[Fox666]

Have you noticed how the Yami Yami no Mi only covers Blackbeard's back?

 

[Beagopa]

I think it’d be thematic if he only got one more fruit and it was a zoan. He claims he already has the strongest logia and he took what was called the strongest paramecia from WB. It’d make sense he’d also want the strongest Zoan and it’d look cool with his three headed Jolly Roger.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Never noticed that. Wonder why.

 

[Fox666]

The urban legend of Edward Mordake:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Mordake

 

[tony p]

It's a likeable possibility that BB finished off BM to steal her DF. If BB has the cerberus mythical zoan, thats could be the dangerous missing one.
But in the plot the citizens have to be save, so CPO/marines will more likely interfere. And he is skilled enough and build to appear at the perfect timing for assassination, stealing the fruit and disappeared.

Also BB planned to invade the revolutionaries and we still need to hear from the outcome. They may still recovering from the battle.

 

[hokageji]

The Cerberus theory was partially based on the 3 lined scar given to Shanks... But in the fishmen island flashback where WB saved the island, we saw BB using a 3 bladed weapon he wore on his wrist.
Even if he did have the cereberus DF, i'd doubt that'll allow him to have different DF abilites... The fact that Marco stated BB is different suggested its his body that makes him unique and not his ability himself...
Fox666's post is the closest thing i can think of now... he could have a congenital twin attached with him, a little like Sakon from Narutoverse... That'll limit his ability to 2 DFs but it still doesnt explain why he's hunting for multiple DFs... Probably knows a trick that allows him to do that.