Yonko Commander Bounty

[Beagopa]

Looking back at some pre-time skip stuff I just remembered that Ace’s bounty was 550,000,000 right before he died. (Probably would’ve gone up if he survived after it became common knowledge that he was Roger’s son but since they had him in custody there wasn’t a need to increase it then.)

This isn’t even equal to Persopero, who isn’t even a Yonko commander. Now, obviously bounty does not equal strength, but strength is a factor. This poses the question, was Ace not a top tier commander or does Big Mom just have an especially strong crew?

Maybe Big Mom’s commanders are stronger than the average commander in WBs crew, but she herself was weaker than WB so their overall crew strength was comparable.

Or was Ace just a lower tier commander?(being Second division captain doesn’t mean he is the second strongest division captain)

Or was his bounty just arbitrarily determined and revealed too early, having no indication to his strength compared to other Yonko commanders?

Thoughts?

 

[Fox666]

Bounties are a measure of threat. While strength influence it, it's not the only factor. For example, Nico Robin had a large bounty at age 8 because she could read the Poneglyph, which pose a great threat to the World Government. Perosperos probably achieved such high bounty due to his wicked nature.

Also you can't compare the positions in both crews. While the Whitebeard Pirates had 16 commanders, each one the captain of a ship, Big Mom only has 4 commanders, but they seem to have more command over their own crew. Perosperos would be strong enough to be a commander in the Whitebeard Pirates too, but he probably already has the authority over ships.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Bounty has very little to do with strength. While a lot of things can influence bounty, there are 2 main things that affect bounty, and out of those 2, there's 1 factor that influences bounty the most.

The greatest influence is the amount of crimes committed. No one gets a bounty of 500m or 1 Billion just like that. They must have committed a lot of crimes to begin with that are known to the Government.

Boa Hancock at the age of 18 acquired a bounty of 80 million after 1 venture out to sea; Robin acquired a bounty of 79 for simply escaping the marines at the age of 8 because of her ability to read Poneglyph. We can't say that an 8 year old Robin is as strong as an 18 year old Boa Hancock, so strength really doesn't influence bounty that much.

For about 20 years, Robin's bounty remained at a value of 79 million until after Enies Lobby where her bounty went up by 1 million. It took 20 or so years for her bounty to to go up by 1 million, why? because she'd not committed any known crimes to the WG's knowledge. have to also note they both earned similar bounties for different reasons. One for probably pillaging and the other for her being an archaeologist meaning, when looking at a bounty, one needs to also have background info of the nature of committed crimes. Can't look at a bounty and simply infer that this character is stronger than that character. There's a lot more to reading bounties.

When we see high bounties, the most we can infer is the character has committed a lot of crimes known to the Government and this Pirate must be quite experienced at the very least.

It took Luffy a lot of crimes to gain a bounty of 500 million, and bare in mind that crime is anything that directly or indirectly shows defiance against the WG and the law of the land.

1. Luffy defeated Krieg, Captain Kuro and Arlong before acquiring a bounty of 30m.
2. He then brought down a Shichibukai in Alabsata earning him a bounty of 100m.
3. Then he defeated Moriah where his bounty was raised to 300m.
4. Not long after, punched a Tenryuubito, broke into Impel Down, saved Ace and then rung the Ox Bell which earned him a bounty of 400m.
5. Finally, he took down Joker where his bounty once again rose, and to 500m.

5 points, but he's easily committed 10 crimes or more. Just imagine if they knew he'd defeated Enel, his bounty might be higher.

One point I'd like to drive is the Supernova are all Pirates with a bounty of 100m and higher.

Urouge had a bounty of 108m when he reached Sabaody while Luffy had a bounty of 300m; Urouge with a bounty of a 108m was able to almost defeat a Pacifista while Luffy with a 300m bounty was only strong enough to do about the same thing implying their strength levels didn't differ much, only bounty.

Also, think about it. Urouge had a bounty of a 108m while when Luffy had a bounty of 100m which was after defeating Crocodile, he didn't have Gear 2nd or 3rd. The Urouge at Sabaody with a bounty of 108m was far superior to Luffy when his bounty was 100m. There's no way Luffy could have remotely replicated what Urouge did when he had such a relatively low bounty.

Then we see after the time-skip, to our knowledge, Urouge's bounty is still just a 108m and he is actually the most successful of the Supernova. Kidd, Bege, Apoo all failed to defeat snack. Only Urouge was able to do that much despite having the lowest bounty.

So, while we look at the bounties of Perospero, Cracker, and all these commanders, we need to take their years as pirates into accounts. How long have they been Pirates? They're definitely not young, so they'd have had ample opportunity to venture out and make names for themselves to earn themselves a bounty. It takes years to earn such high bounties. Katakuri may have been a Pirate for 20 odd years, or a decade at the very least. A decade to earn a bounty of 1 billion as opposed to someone who earned a bounty of 550m in a mere 3 years shows how impressive Ace's bounty is (as is Sabo's).

Bounties do indicate experience more than anything regarding the individual; it also indicates they've likely committed multiple crimes, but one has to understand the nature of the crime too. Bounties cannot be understood purely on value, but requires context like character history and nature of committed crimes.

Ace was super strong. Even Chinjao believed he was the closest amongst the rookies to become Pirate King and Sengoku also felt similarly which indicates just how much of a threat he really was.

 

[Fox666]

Urouge's bounty is still just a 108m

We don't know.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

We don't know.

Well as far as we know, it's 108m until we're given an update. If he's not done much to catch the eye of the WG, it could still be only 108m. Bounties only change with known crimes or events.

 

[Beagopa]

Bounty has very little to do with strength. While a lot of things can influence bounty, there are 2 main things that affect bounty, and out of those 2, there's 1 factor that influences bounty the most.

The greatest influence is the amount of crimes committed. No one gets a bounty of 500m or 1 Billion just like that. They must have committed a lot of crimes to begin with that are known to the Government.

Boa Hancock at the age of 18 acquired a bounty of 80 million after 1 venture out to sea; Robin acquired a bounty of 79 for simply escaping the marines at the age of 8 because of her ability to read Poneglyph. We can't say that an 8 year old Robin is as strong as an 18 year old Boa Hancock, so strength really doesn't influence bounty that much.

For about 20 years, Robin's bounty remained at a value of 79 million until after Enies Lobby where her bounty went up by 1 million. It took 20 or so years for her bounty to to go up by 1 million, why? because she'd not committed any known crimes to the WG's knowledge. have to also note they both earned similar bounties for different reasons. One for probably pillaging and the other for her being an archaeologist meaning, when looking at a bounty, one needs to also have background info of the nature of committed crimes. Can't look at a bounty and simply infer that this character is stronger than that character. There's a lot more to reading bounties.

When we see high bounties, the most we can infer is the character has committed a lot of crimes known to the Government and this Pirate must be quite experienced at the very least.

It took Luffy a lot of crimes to gain a bounty of 500 million, and bare in mind that crime is anything that directly or indirectly shows defiance against the WG and the law of the land.

1. Luffy defeated Krieg, Captain Kuro and Arlong before acquiring a bounty of 30m.
2. He then brought down a Shichibukai in Alabsata earning him a bounty of 100m.
3. Then he defeated Moriah where his bounty was raised to 300m.
4. Not long after, punched a Tenryuubito, broke into Impel Down, saved Ace and then rung the Ox Bell which earned him a bounty of 400m.
5. Finally, he took down Joker where his bounty once again rose, and to 500m.

5 points, but he's easily committed 10 crimes or more. Just imagine if they knew he'd defeated Enel, his bounty might be higher.

One point I'd like to drive is the Supernova are all Pirates with a bounty of 100m and higher.

Urouge had a bounty of 108m when he reached Sabaody while Luffy had a bounty of 300m; Urouge with a bounty of a 108m was able to almost defeat a Pacifista while Luffy with a 300m bounty was only strong enough to do about the same thing implying their strength levels didn't differ much, only bounty.

Also, think about it. Urouge had a bounty of a 108m while when Luffy had a bounty of 100m which was after defeating Crocodile, he didn't have Gear 2nd or 3rd. The Urouge at Sabaody with a bounty of 108m was far superior to Luffy when his bounty was 100m. There's no way Luffy could have remotely replicated what Urouge did when he had such a relatively low bounty.

Then we see after the time-skip, to our knowledge, Urouge's bounty is still just a 108m and he is actually the most successful of the Supernova. Kidd, Bege, Apoo all failed to defeat snack. Only Urouge was able to do that much despite having the lowest bounty.

So, while we look at the bounties of Perospero, Cracker, and all these commanders, we need to take their years as pirates into accounts. How long have they been Pirates? They're definitely not young, so they'd have had ample opportunity to venture out and make names for themselves to earn themselves a bounty. It takes years to earn such high bounties. Katakuri may have been a Pirate for 20 odd years, or a decade at the very least. A decade to earn a bounty of 1 billion as opposed to someone who earned a bounty of 550m in a mere 3 years shows how impressive Ace's bounty is (as is Sabo's).

Bounties do indicate experience more than anything regarding the individual; it also indicates they've likely committed multiple crimes, but one has to understand the nature of the crime too. Bounties cannot be understood purely on value, but requires context like character history and nature of committed crimes.

Ace was super strong. Even Chinjao believed he was the closest amongst the rookies to become Pirate King and Sengoku also felt similarly which indicates just how much of a threat he really was.

Did Kidd’s alliance fight Snack? I thought they just sailed through BM’s territory?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Did Kidd’s alliance fight Snack? I thought they just sailed through BM’s territory?

Fair point. So, if we assume they never got a chance to fight a commander, then Urouge is far more impressive than the others who tried to challenge Big Mom. It'd imply they got taken out by the fodder of the crew.

 

[Beagopa]

Fair point. So, if we assume they never got a chance to fight a commander, then Urouge is far more impressive than the others who tried to challenge Big Mom. It'd imply they got taken out by the fodder of the crew.

I honestly do agree that Urouge has the best feat but if IIRC Tamago said that Kidd sailed through BM’s territory and sank two ships before leaving. I don’t think he actually fought anyone but he pissed BM off.

 

[HereNThere]

Or was his bounty just arbitrarily determined and revealed too early, having no indication to his strength compared to other Yonko commanders?

I assume this to be the case as his being the child of the former Pirate King makes me assume his bounty should have been way higher given what the marines went through to find him and set up his execution. It's not even about his strength, moreso what he represented to the marines.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I honestly do agree that Urouge has the best feat but if IIRC Tamago said that Kidd sailed through BM’s territory and sank two ships before leaving. I don’t think he actually fought anyone but he pissed BM off.

Brulee said they all came claiming they'd become Pirate King and never even got far enough to see Big Mom implying they tried, but failed. It's unlikely Kidd just sailed through to sink a ship or 2 and leave. He got bullied out. That's likely why after failing, Kidd and Killer tried to ally with other Supernova to take on a Yonko. Makes sense that they went after Shanks being that he has no DF. DFs are game changers no matter how weak the user is.

 

[Beagopa]

Brulee said they all came claiming they'd become Pirate King and never even got far enough to see Big Mom implying they tried, but failed. It's unlikely Kidd just sailed through to sink a ship or 2 and leave. He got bullied out. That's likely why after failing, Kidd and Killer tried to ally with other Supernova to take on a Yonko. Makes sense that they went after Shanks being that he has no DF. DFs are game changers no matter how weak the user is.

Yea too bad their alliance already fell apart lol. I feel like their crews are some of the least interesting in my opinion, although I’m sure some people love them.

 

[kkck]

Well, going by jack, cracker, smoothie and katakuri it seems fairly clear the implication here is that yonko's top 3 will generally be over the 800 mil mark. Clearly the implication here is that ace would be ranked beneath any of them. Ace was obviously powerful but the power scale here is so wide there is plenty of room for him to have been a meaningful player in WB's crew while still falling short of marco, jozu and vista. Also worth noting, we have very little information regarding WB's commanders. The most we have been able to make out so far is that marco, jozu and vista are the stronger commanders. But the rest are shrouded in mystery, the most we have been told is by jinbe that each one was worth 100 men which before the day was how insanely powerful people were described. My guess would be that ace was more or less average when it comes to a division commander's strength and his biggest merit at the time was that was strong enough to even be one at such a young age.

 

[Beagopa]

Well, going by jack, cracker, smoothie and katakuri it seems fairly clear the implication here is that yonko's top 3 will generally be over the 800 mil mark. Clearly the implication here is that ace would be ranked beneath any of them. Ace was obviously powerful but the power scale here is so wide there is plenty of room for him to have been a meaningful player in WB's crew while still falling short of marco, jozu and vista. Also worth noting, we have very little information regarding WB's commanders. The most we have been able to make out so far is that marco, jozu and vista are the stronger commanders. But the rest are shrouded in mystery, the most we have been told is by jinbe that each one was worth 100 men which before the day was how insanely powerful people were described. My guess would be that ace was more or less average when it comes to a division commander's strength and his biggest merit at the time was that was strong enough to even be one at such a young age.

I have a similar opinion. I felt like Ace was strong for his age but not necessarily top level strength. We know that before he joined WB he was evenly matched with Jinbe. What we don’t know is how strong Jinbe is since other than Akainu, he has only really fought mooks.

 

[kkck]

I have a similar opinion. I felt like Ace was strong for his age but not necessarily top level strength. We know that before he joined WB he was evenly matched with Jinbe. What we don’t know is how strong Jinbe is since other than Akainu, he has only really fought mooks.

Ace probably grew a fair bit from that point to boot. Although on the other hand even during the war, and this is just my opinion, jinbe didn't really evidence he was quite up there with the top players. Sure he was strong though when it came to it akainu did get to him pretty quickly. He definitely falls short of the top tier at least.

 

[M3J]

How old was Ace compared to the other commanders of Yonkou with high bounty? Even though I believe his bounty was determined and revealed too early, age can also make a difference, especially if Ace wasn't so destructive or was likeable enough.

 

[Beagopa]

Ace was likely younger than most but the thing is, if someone as strong as Kata only had a 500,000 bounty, then no hunters would bother going after someone for what would be a disproportionate reward. Cost benefit analysis. I don’t age would matter that much. A bounty has to entice people to go after it. Who would risk fighting a top level yonko commander when they can get the same amount of money from fighting a supernova instead?

Also, I think it’s odd we don’t have any strong bounty hunters running around in the series.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Ace was likely younger than most but the thing is, if someone as strong as Kata only had a 500,000 bounty, then no hunters would bother going after someone for what would be a disproportionate reward. Cost benefit analysis. I don’t age would matter that much. A bounty has to entice people to go after it. Who would risk fighting a top level yonko commander when they can get the same amount of money from fighting a supernova instead?

Also, I think it’s odd we don’t have any strong bounty hunters running around in the series.

Blackbeard was exceptionally strong and he still had a bounty of 0 until he'd committed a crime.

Tha amount of crimes one commits and the nature contribute to crime, but it's the amount more than anything.

Bounty isn't directly related to strength.

It took Luffy just 3 years to earn a bounty of 500, Ace about 3 years to earn a bounty of 550m.

How long do you think it took Katakuri, Perospero, Cracker and Smoothie to earn their bounties? Probably at least a decade.

Luffy only had a bounty of 100m, yet, that's all Blackbeard needed to earn a sit as a Shichibukai. Any bounty above 100m is significant. You could have someone with a 150m bounty who is stronger than Katakuri. The only thing it'd mean is Katakuri has committed more crimes openly while the latter hasn't.

Look at Rockstar of the Red Hair Pirates, only a bounty of 94m. For all we know, he's a lot more powerful than all the persons we know with 400-500m bounties. As long as a bounty is worth 100m +, bounty hunters will find it a significant and respectable value.

 

[kkck]

How old was Ace compared to the other commanders of Yonkou with high bounty? Even though I believe his bounty was determined and revealed too early, age can also make a difference, especially if Ace wasn't so destructive or was likeable enough.

As far as I can tell the main yonko commanders are between 35-45 years old. Basically about twice ace's age. In the shiki flashbacks marco was seen in WB's crew IIRC. Vista seems about that age. Katakuri is about that age considering he is big mom's second son. And we saw shanks looking around 20 back when roger died. And ace did seem to be the younger one of the wb commanders altogether. Most of them look to be at least middle age with a few exceptions.

 

[Fox666]

Luffy only had a bounty of 100m, yet, that's all Blackbeard needed to earn a sit as a Shichibukai. Any bounty above 100m is significant.

IIRC Blackbeard specifically mentions he figured out that it was Luffy who defeated Crocodile.

 

[Beagopa]

Blackbeard was exceptionally strong and he still had a bounty of 0 until he'd committed a crime.

Tha amount of crimes one commits and the nature contribute to crime, but it's the amount more than anything.

Bounty isn't directly related to strength.

It took Luffy just 3 years to earn a bounty of 500, Ace about 3 years to earn a bounty of 550m.

How long do you think it took Katakuri, Perospero, Cracker and Smoothie to earn their bounties? Probably at least a decade.

Luffy only had a bounty of 100m, yet, that's all Blackbeard needed to earn a sit as a Shichibukai. Any bounty above 100m is significant. You could have someone with a 150m bounty who is stronger than Katakuri. The only thing it'd mean is Katakuri has committed more crimes openly while the latter hasn't.

Look at Rockstar of the Red Hair Pirates, only a bounty of 94m. For all we know, he's a lot more powerful than all the persons we know with 400-500m bounties. As long as a bounty is worth 100m +, bounty hunters will find it a significant and respectable value.

The more crimes commit the more info the WG has on you so it is definitely a factor. I’m not saying strength determines bounty but it is another factor. BB had a zero bounty because no one knew anything about him. The WG didn’t even know his name when it was suggested he replace Crocodile as a Shichibukai.

However when the WG knows a Pirate and how strong they are, they give a bounty they think represents their threat. People get bounties for lots of different reasons besides strength (Sogeking burning the flag).

However, if the WG puts a bounty on a pirate they know to be obscenely strong, they have to make it high to make people think it is worth the risk of fighting that pirate.

The WG knew plenty about Ace. They wanted him as a Shichibukai and he was a division commander. A lot of Shichibukai have low bounties because they get frozen when they join the Shichibukai. Ace didn’t so his bounty reflected what the WG knew of him.

100 million bounties are significant but you wouldn’t risk fighting Kata, cracker, smoothie, jack, or Marco for that amount. It wouldn’t be worth it. Cost benefit analysis says too much risk for too little return.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 30, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 30, 2017 ---

Also, it is worth noting physical age doesn’t matter. Bege Luffy and B.B. are all different ages but are considered part of the same generation. BB went from rookie to Shichibukai to Yonko within 2 to 3 years of being active in the WG’s eyes. (BB wasn’t a real rookie but was considered one by the WG who lacked info)

The more crimes you commit the more info the WG has on you but if you commit one big crime that showcases your strength, the WG may give you a bigger bounty then someone who commits a crap ton of crimes. Don Krieg for instance was a very active and open pirate but had a small bounty because he wasn’t that strong and therefore not a real threat.