Yonko Commander Bounty

[Hannibal Psyche]

IIRC Blackbeard specifically mentions he figured out that it was Luffy who defeated Crocodile.

I believe that was Joker who did. He mentions how Luffy fell from the sky and some other details. He didn't believe it was Smoker who did and found it odd that someone suddenly got a bounty of 100m and had it investigated by Trebol.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 30, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 30, 2017 ---

The more crimes commit the more info the WG has on you so it is definitely a factor. I’m not saying strength determines bounty but it is another factor. BB had a zero bounty because no one knew anything about him. The WG didn’t even know his name when it was suggested he replace Crocodile as a Shichibukai.

However when the WG knows a Pirate and how strong they are, they give a bounty they think represents their threat. People get bounties for lots of different reasons besides strength (Sogeking burning the flag).

However, if the WG puts a bounty on a pirate they know to be obscenely strong, they have to make it high to make people think it is worth the risk of fighting that pirate.

The WG knew plenty about Ace. They wanted him as a Shichibukai and he was a division commander. A lot of Shichibukai have low bounties because they get frozen when they join the Shichibukai. Ace didn’t so his bounty reflected what the WG knew of him.

100 million bounties are significant but you wouldn’t risk fighting Kata, cracker, smoothie, jack, or Marco for that amount. It wouldn’t be worth it. Cost benefit analysis says too much risk for too little return.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 30, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 30, 2017 ---

Also, it is worth noting physical age doesn’t matter. Bege Luffy and B.B. are all different ages but are considered part of the same generation. BB went from rookie to Shichibukai to Yonko within 2 to 3 years of being active in the WG’s eyes. (BB wasn’t a real rookie but was considered one by the WG who lacked info)

The more crimes you commit the more info the WG has on you but if you commit one big crime that showcases your strength, the WG may give you a bigger bounty then someone who commits a crap ton of crimes. Don Krieg for instance was a very active and open pirate but had a small bounty because he wasn’t that strong and therefore not a real threat.

Well, Marco has been a Pirate for at least, 20 years. Katakuri and co. have been Pirates for either a decade or double that.

No one just gets a bounty of 1 billion from one crime, it takes A LOT of crimes to garner that much of a bounty.

Strength is barely a factor.

1. Robin at the age of 8 committed 1 crime, and that's being able to read Poneglyph, a bounty of 79m.
2. Boa Hancock committed 1 crime, and earned a bounty of 79m at the age of 18.
3. It took Luffy about 4 crimes before he earned a bounty of 100m.

Luffy before Alabasta had a bounty of 30m, and yet Robin had a bounty of 79m from the age of 8 till 28. Yet, Luffy was stronger than Robin despite her having a higher bounty. Robin at the age of 8 was also nowhere as powerful as Hancock at 18; one of the few in Paradise who are actually aware of Haki.

Urouge was just as strong as any of the top Supernova with a bounty of 108m, yet the others were double and triple that.

It's not really about showcasing strength, it's more about crimes. If it was about strength, then everyone with a similar bounty should be relatively same strength. Urouge 108m and is just about as strong as people with 300m bounties among the Supernova who at best could only take down a Pacifista.

There's little correlation between bounty and strength. There's more correlation between high bounties equating to a lot of crimes.

The best a bounty will tell you is that the individual is experienced. Marco and co. didn't get those bounties they have from 1 crime, it took years. So, you could potentially get someone just as strong as Marco and Katakuri with a bounty of 100m, why? Simply because they've not committed enough crimes.

Why do you think Robin's bounty was only 79m for 20 years? Why did it take over 20 years to go up by 1-2m? Her bounty wasn't even based on strength. Except you think Robin at the age of 8 has been at the same level of strength for 20 years which would be somewhat questionable.

 

[kkck]

The more crimes you commit the more info the WG has on you but if you commit one big crime that showcases your strength, the WG may give you a bigger bounty then someone who commits a crap ton of crimes. Don Krieg for instance was a very active and open pirate but had a small bounty because he wasn’t that strong and therefore not a real threat.

I don't think the amount of crimes really matters all that much. Otherwise every time a pirate commits a crime his bounty would increase. And that doesn't even hold true for the strawhats, let alone other pirates who have careers spawning decades. Say, buggy. He was a pirate for over 2 decades when luffy met him and his bounty was still only a paltry 15 million. It's not like buggy committed the one crime that earned him 15 mil and then did nothing else. Of course, bounties are ultimately the world government's threat perception of someone meaning that it is essentially subjective. However in the grand scheme of things this is a pretty good reference for where people stand. The whole thing can fail us in very specific cases where weird stuff goes on. Say, robin being a child with a bounty bigger than hancock's first.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I don't think the amount of crimes really matters all that much. Otherwise every time a pirate commits a crime his bounty would increase. And that doesn't even hold true for the strawhats, let alone other pirates who have careers spawning decades. Say, buggy. He was a pirate for over 2 decades when luffy met him and his bounty was still only a paltry 15 million. It's not like buggy committed the one crime that earned him 15 mil and then did nothing else. Of course, bounties are ultimately the world government's threat perception of someone meaning that it is essentially subjective. However in the grand scheme of things this is a pretty good reference for where people stand. The whole thing can fail us in very specific cases where weird stuff goes on. Say, robin being a child with a bounty bigger than hancock's first.

Buggy didn't venture out much until around the time Luffy ventured off into the Grand line. He hadn't done much.

Hancock also had a higher bounty than Robin, Hancock's was 80m while Robin's was 79m.

All bounties are accumulative, not just 1 crime, 1 billion bounty. Took Luffy about 4 crimes to get up to 100m. No one gets catapulted into ridiculous bounty values off 1 crime.

 

[Beagopa]

I believe that was Joker who did. He mentions how Luffy fell from the sky and some other details. He didn't believe it was Smoker who did and found it odd that someone suddenly got a bounty of 100m and had it investigated by Trebol.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 30, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 30, 2017 ---

Well, Marco has been a Pirate for at least, 20 years. Katakuri and co. have been Pirates for either a decade or double that.

No one just gets a bounty of 1 billion from one crime, it takes A LOT of crimes to garner that much of a bounty.

Strength is barely a factor.

1. Robin at the age of 8 committed 1 crime, and that's being able to read Poneglyph, a bounty of 79m.
2. Boa Hancock committed 1 crime, and earned a bounty of 79m at the age of 18.
3. It took Luffy about 4 crimes before he earned a bounty of 100m.

Luffy before Alabasta had a bounty of 30m, and yet Robin had a bounty of 79m from the age of 8 till 28. Yet, Luffy was stronger than Robin despite her having a higher bounty. Robin at the age of 8 was also nowhere as powerful as Hancock at 18; one of the few in Paradise who are actually aware of Haki.

Urouge was just as strong as any of the top Supernova with a bounty of 108m, yet the others were double and triple that.

It's not really about showcasing strength, it's more about crimes. If it was about strength, then everyone with a similar bounty should be relatively same strength. Urouge 108m and is just about as strong as people with 300m bounties among the Supernova who at best could only take down a Pacifista.

There's little correlation between bounty and strength. There's more correlation between high bounties equating to a lot of crimes.

The best a bounty will tell you is that the individual is experienced. Marco and co. didn't get those bounties they have from 1 crime, it took years. So, you could potentially get someone just as strong as Marco and Katakuri with a bounty of 100m, why? Simply because they've not committed enough crimes.

Why do you think Robin's bounty was only 79m for 20 years? Why did it take over 20 years to go up by 1-2m? Her bounty wasn't even based on strength. Except you think Robin at the age of 8 has been at the same level of strength for 20 years which would be somewhat questionable.

People get bounties for different reasons.
They can get them for crimes or for strength or for just being a potential threat.

The biggest factor is political value to the WG. Sanji has a “only alive” bounty because he was politically worth it. Robin had a value because of the threat her abilities posed. Kidd’s bounty is derived from his numerous crimes. Usopp’s was because he publicly insulted the WG’s authority.

People get bounties for different reasons. Sometimes strength is a factor sometimes it isn’t. Robin’s strength wasn’t a factor in hers because she wasn’t strong as a child. However, if she were as strong as Big Mom was as a kid she would’ve likely had a bigger bounty. Strength matters in the context that if you KNOW someone is strong, you won’t risk fight them without enough incentive.

This is just basic sense, if a person known to be as strong as an admiral burned down the WG flag no one would think a bounty of 500 million berry would be worth going after it. I could get that money easier by going after supernovas.

While a low bounty does not mean you are weak and a high bounty doesn’t mean you are strong, a person who is KNOWN to be strong and a pirate will have a high bounty.

A lot of rookie pirates don’t have correctly assessed strength, so their bounties aren’t accurate. Yonko commanders are usually well known so their bounties SHOULD be more accurate, although not necessarily.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

People get bounties for different reasons.
They can get them for crimes or for strength or for just being a potential threat.

The biggest factor is political value to the WG. Sanji has a “only alive” bounty because he was politically worth it. Robin had a value because of the threat her abilities posed. Kidd’s bounty is derived from his numerous crimes. Usopp’s was because he publicly insulted the WG’s authority.

People get bounties for different reasons. Sometimes strength is a factor sometimes it isn’t. Robin’s strength wasn’t a factor in hers because she wasn’t strong as a child. However, if she were as strong as Big Mom was as a kid she would’ve likely had a bigger bounty. Strength matters in the context that if you KNOW someone is strong, you won’t risk fight them without enough incentive.

This is just basic sense, if a person known to be as strong as an admiral burned down the WG flag no one would think a bounty of 500 million berry would be worth going after it. I could get that money easier by going after supernovas.

While a low bounty does not mean you are weak and a high bounty doesn’t mean you are strong, a person who is KNOWN to be strong and a pirate will have a high bounty.

A lot of rookie pirates don’t have correctly assessed strength, so their bounties aren’t accurate. Yonko commanders are usually well known so their bounties SHOULD be more accurate, although not necessarily.

People get bounties for different reason, by reasons, you must mean crimes because that's the denominator.

Strength is never a prime factor, it's the crime that matters.

You claim rookies don't have accurate bounties, you're in essence stating Oda is inaccurate with bounties? That requires basis.

It's more likely you're inaccurate as opposed to the author being inaccurate.

Your mistake here is you think Bounties are like Price tags. Bounties aren't set price tags or assessments of strength.

If Bounty is based on strength, then you're claiming that Urouge who took out a Pacifista at a bounty of 108m is as strong as Luffy who had a bounty of 100m and no Gear 2nd or 3rd to defeat a Pacifista.

Luffy had a bounty of 300m at Sabaody and couldn't defeat a Pacifista alone; Zoro has a bounty of roughly 300m and he's strong enough to even clash with Admirals. Your bounty assessment is clearly flawed.

 

[Beagopa]

People get bounties for different reason, by reasons, you must mean crimes because that's the denominator.

Strength is never a prime factor, it's the crime that matters.

You claim rookies don't have accurate bounties, you're in essence stating Oda is inaccurate with bounties? That requires basis.

It's more likely you're inaccurate as opposed to the author being inaccurate.

Your mistake here is you think Bounties are like Price tags. Bounties aren't set price tags or assessments of strength.

If Bounty is based on strength, then you're claiming that Urouge who took out a Pacifista at a bounty of 108m is as strong as Luffy who had a bounty of 100m and no Gear 2nd or 3rd to defeat a Pacifista.

Luffy had a bounty of 300m at Sabaody and couldn't defeat a Pacifista alone; Zoro has a bounty of roughly 300m and he's strong enough to even clash with Admirals. Your bounty assessment is clearly flawed.

Robin got a bounty despite not committing any crimes but that is irrelevant.

You use a good straw man argument by saying I argue one thing and then attacking it even though it is not what I said. I didn’t say bounties are based on strength or that you get one if you are strong.

You get a bounty for an underlying reason and then the amount is determined by numerous factors, one of which is strength. What factors are used are determined by the available information. Sometimes you know how strong a criminal is so you include it as a factor, other times you do not.

I never said bounties are BASED on strength, I said it can be a factor at times. Also, the reason I said the bounties are inaccurate is because they don’t always correctly reveal a characters threat level. I’m not saying Oda is inaccurate, I’m saying Oda intentionally made bounties inaccurate. As you brought up, Urouge is at least as much of a threat as some of the other Supernovas but has a lower bounty.

We have to remember that we know more about these characters than the WG necessarily does. The bounties are inaccurate because if the WG knew everything the readers knew, then certain characters would have different bounties.

Bounties are given for an underlying reason and then the amount is changed as the WG learns more about the person. Don Krieg could commit as many crimes as he wants in east blue or wherever he is from, but his bounty is unlikely to get very high if he isn’t a big threat in the WG’s eyes.

If the WG knows a pirate is strong, remember being a pirate is in itself a crime, the WG won’t give a small bounty to them. This is because the point of a bounty is to entice a hunter.

Think objectively, if you know a pirate is as strong as Kuzan and his only crime was burning the WG flag would you give him the same bounty as Sogeking because he hasn’t really committed any other crimes? No because a hunter would pick weaker targets who are worth more. This is just common sense.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 30, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 30, 2017 ---

Buggy didn't venture out much until around the time Luffy ventured off into the Grand line. He hadn't done much.

Hancock also had a higher bounty than Robin, Hancock's was 80m while Robin's was 79m.

All bounties are accumulative, not just 1 crime, 1 billion bounty. Took Luffy about 4 crimes to get up to 100m. No one gets catapulted into ridiculous bounty values off 1 crime.

I bet if it became public knowledge that Kuzan allied with the B.B. pirates his bounty would be ridiculous from the start, even he doesn’t commit a lot of crimes.

 

[kkck]

Come on, there isn't a specific formula to what bounty is applied to anyone. Bounties are applied based on perceived threat level which is an inherently subjective criteria. We have even seen a bit of how the process goes, specially during luffy's first 30 mil bounty. And remember the bounty increases the strawhats got after defeating the doflamingo pirates? They straight up just added 50 million to a bunch of people except for ussop and sanji who got even more arbitrary, politically motivated, increases. If bounties got updates every time someone does something then the strawhats would have had at least a few more instances of bounty increases by this point. Heck, they didn't even get a bounty increased from escaping kizaru at sabaody archipielago, which you'd think is a pretty big deal.

Back at the manga's start luffy announced himself as a pirate pretty early on and it took him defeating at least several somewhat well known pirates in the area for him to get a bounty at all. You'd think him defeating that one corrupt marine officer, then buggy, then kuro, then krieg and then arlong would have gotten him a bounty earlier. And, IIRC, his first bounty was at least initially partially motivated by that one marine being pissed at him. And the other marines thought it was too much to start someone off with 30 mil.

Remember whiskey peak? Sure, it was an outlaw town and whatnot but the strawhats IIRC beat up literally everyone there. Where was the bounty increase for that? It's not like the world government would have trouble finding out about this considering how good they are at intelligence when it is convenient for the plot. And sure, thriller bark was covered up but.... What exactly stopped the government from raising luffy's bounty there? Even if they covered everything up it's not like they own anyone explanations regarding bounties anyways.

Zoro's third bounty is 320 mil. Is... that high enough? His captain is worth 500 mil. Zoro defeated doflmaingo's strongest subordinate. Bellamy was worth 200mil or so and he was not even good enough to be in the crew. How much would picca be worth if he was given a bounty? 320 is the absolute bare minimum zoro should be worth but it would be completely fair if he was nearing the 400 mil.... Zoro's bounty is less than pekom's, whom while a member of the big mom pirates does not appear to be anything comparable to the commander equivalents (though they are all big mom's children specifically though). Freaking tamago is worth over 400 mil and he doesn't even seem stronger than zoro. Pedro had almost 400k and however strong he was he just doesn't seem as powerful or dangerous as zoro. Granted he was looking for poneglyphs but still, the number is kinda ridiculous.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Robin got a bounty despite not committing any crimes but that is irrelevant.

You use a good straw man argument by saying I argue one thing and then attacking it even though it is not what I said. I didn’t say bounties are based on strength or that you get one if you are strong.

You get a bounty for an underlying reason and then the amount is determined by numerous factors, one of which is strength. What factors are used are determined by the available information. Sometimes you know how strong a criminal is so you include it as a factor, other times you do not.

I never said bounties are BASED on strength, I said it can be a factor at times. Also, the reason I said the bounties are inaccurate is because they don’t always correctly reveal a characters threat level. I’m not saying Oda is inaccurate, I’m saying Oda intentionally made bounties inaccurate. As you brought up, Urouge is at least as much of a threat as some of the other Supernovas but has a lower bounty.

We have to remember that we know more about these characters than the WG necessarily does. The bounties are inaccurate because if the WG knew everything the readers knew, then certain characters would have different bounties.

Bounties are given for an underlying reason and then the amount is changed as the WG learns more about the person. Don Krieg could commit as many crimes as he wants in east blue or wherever he is from, but his bounty is unlikely to get very high if he isn’t a big threat in the WG’s eyes.

If the WG knows a pirate is strong, remember being a pirate is in itself a crime, the WG won’t give a small bounty to them. This is because the point of a bounty is to entice a hunter.

Think objectively, if you know a pirate is as strong as Kuzan and his only crime was burning the WG flag would you give him the same bounty as Sogeking because he hasn’t really committed any other crimes? No because a hunter would pick weaker targets who are worth more. This is just common sense.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 30, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 30, 2017 ---

I bet if it became public knowledge that Kuzan allied with the B.B. pirates his bounty would be ridiculous from the start, even he doesn’t commit a lot of crimes.

Strength is hardly the basis for bounty, it's the crime.

Get all the people with a bounty of 100m, and do they all have relatively equal strength? Like I said, your assumptions are extremely flawed.

Luffy with a bounty of 100m had no Gear 2nd or 3rd - Urouge with a bounty of 100m could take on Pacifista, something that Luffy at the time he had a 100m bounty could never accomplish.

Zoro with his current bounty of 300m could defeat a Pacifista; defeat the likes of Pica - Luffy with a bounty of 300m couldn't even defeat a Pacifista alone.

You say a character can commit as many crimes as they want, and it won't get very high; extremely flawed logic:

1. Luffy after East Blue saga : 30m
2. After he defeated a Shichibukai: 100m
3. After declaring war on at the WG and defeating CP9: 300m
4. After Thriller Bark, Sabaody hitting a Celestial Dragon & escaping the WG, Impel Down, Marineford & Ox Bell: 400m

Bounties only go up the more crimes are committed.

Doesn't matter how strong you are, your bounty will only amount the the severity of all accumulated crimes. Bounty isn't power level which is what you're saying indirectly.

Hell, if Bounties were just there to incentivise, then why wasn't Robin's bounty just raised to 1 billion since she could read the Poneglyph? It doesn't work the way you think at all.

Robin's bounty remained at 79m for 20 years. That alone should make it clear that a bounty will only go up with known crimes.

The bounties are inaccurate, how? because they're not as high as you think they should be? Well, that's hardly an argument. I think it's fair to dismiss an idea that values their own ideas over what's established. It's not a power level scale.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 30, 2017 ---

Come on, there isn't a specific formula to what bounty is applied to anyone. Bounties are applied based on perceived threat level which is an inherently subjective criteria. We have even seen a bit of how the process goes, specially during luffy's first 30 mil bounty. And remember the bounty increases the strawhats got after defeating the doflamingo pirates? They straight up just added 50 million to a bunch of people except for ussop and sanji who got even more arbitrary, politically motivated, increases. If bounties got updates every time someone does something then the strawhats would have had at least a few more instances of bounty increases by this point. Heck, they didn't even get a bounty increased from escaping kizaru at sabaody archipielago, which you'd think is a pretty big deal.

Back at the manga's start luffy announced himself as a pirate pretty early on and it took him defeating at least several somewhat well known pirates in the area for him to get a bounty at all. You'd think him defeating that one corrupt marine officer, then buggy, then kuro, then krieg and then arlong would have gotten him a bounty earlier. And, IIRC, his first bounty was at least initially partially motivated by that one marine being pissed at him. And the other marines thought it was too much to start someone off with 30 mil.

Remember whiskey peak? Sure, it was an outlaw town and whatnot but the strawhats IIRC beat up literally everyone there. Where was the bounty increase for that? It's not like the world government would have trouble finding out about this considering how good they are at intelligence when it is convenient for the plot. And sure, thriller bark was covered up but.... What exactly stopped the government from raising luffy's bounty there? Even if they covered everything up it's not like they own anyone explanations regarding bounties anyways.

Zoro's third bounty is 320 mil. Is... that high enough? His captain is worth 500 mil. Zoro defeated doflmaingo's strongest subordinate. Bellamy was worth 200mil or so and he was not even good enough to be in the crew. How much would picca be worth if he was given a bounty? 320 is the absolute bare minimum zoro should be worth but it would be completely fair if he was nearing the 400 mil.... Zoro's bounty is less than pekom's, whom while a member of the big mom pirates does not appear to be anything comparable to the commander equivalents (though they are all big mom's children specifically though). Freaking tamago is worth over 400 mil and he doesn't even seem stronger than zoro. Pedro had almost 400k and however strong he was he just doesn't seem as powerful or dangerous as zoro. Granted he was looking for poneglyphs but still, the number is kinda ridiculous.

Exactly. You're basing bounties as a power level scale and it's clearly flawed because it's not a power scaling tool. If it were, it'd clearly be higher.

BUT that's not what bounties are, they're there to highlight that the individual is notorious, dangerous, experienced and evasive. It won't give you detail of strength. It's at best a resume of a Pirate's crimes and one that ultimately tells you that x-character is formidable and dangerous. The higher it is, the more bounties that character has likely committed.

You say Bellamy's bounty being 200m is not warranted, or Luffy's bounty with Zoro's bounty differential is to great. Obviously, there's something wrong there IF it was there to display the strength of an individual, it is not, that's the point. Tamago is unlikely to be as strong as Zoro. I think you should get the point by now. It's not just 1 character you think is stronger than someone else with a higher bounty, you have multiple people that you and likely many others would agree with. Doesn't that sort of give you any hints that the basis for your understanding of bounties is inaccurate?

It's all about crimes committed, everything else like strength and collateral damage are relatively secondary. Could be the strongest individual in the world, and you wouldn't have a high bounty. It's the crime that one commits and the amount that will ultimately earn a character a significantly high bounty. A character of 100m could be even more powerful than someone with a bounty of 600m.

Sabo's bounty is 602m for a reason. It's not because he's weak, it's because he needs to accumulate more crimes. He could be superior to Perospero and even Cracker for all we know.

Hell, Urouge is 108m and maybe it's gone up by 100m since the past 2 years, we don't know. If we just assume Snack has a bounty higher than Perospero and less than Cracker, he could be anywhere between 700 and 860m in bounty. Someone with a 300m bounty at best has defeated such an individual. Bounty is clearly not strongly related to strength.

 

[Beagopa]

Strength is hardly the basis for bounty, it's the crime.

Get all the people with a bounty of 100m, and do they all have relatively equal strength? Like I said, your assumptions are extremely flawed.

Luffy with a bounty of 100m had no Gear 2nd or 3rd - Urouge with a bounty of 100m could take on Pacifista, something that Luffy at the time he had a 100m bounty could never accomplish.

Zoro with his current bounty of 300m could defeat a Pacifista; defeat the likes of Pica - Luffy with a bounty of 300m couldn't even defeat a Pacifista alone.

You say a character can commit as many crimes as they want, and it won't get very high; extremely flawed logic:

1. Luffy after East Blue saga : 30m
2. After he defeated a Shichibukai: 100m
3. After declaring war on at the WG and defeating CP9: 300m
4. After Thriller Bark, Sabaody hitting a Celestial Dragon & escaping the WG, Impel Down, Marineford & Ox Bell: 400m

Bounties only go up the more crimes are committed.

Doesn't matter how strong you are, your bounty will only amount the the severity of all accumulated crimes. Bounty isn't power level which is what you're saying indirectly.

Hell, if Bounties were just there to incentivise, then why wasn't Robin's bounty just raised to 1 billion since she could read the Poneglyph? It doesn't work the way you think at all.

Robin's bounty remained at 79m for 20 years. That alone should make it clear that a bounty will only go up with known crimes.

The bounties are inaccurate, how? because they're not as high as you think they should be? Well, that's hardly an argument. I think it's fair to dismiss an idea that values their own ideas over what's established. It's not a power level scale.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 30, 2017 ---

Exactly. You're basing bounties as a power level scale and it's clearly flawed because it's not a power scaling tool. If it were, it'd clearly be higher.

BUT that's not what bounties are, they're there to highlight that the individual is notorious, dangerous, experienced and evasive. It won't give you detail of strength. It's at best a resume of a Pirate's crimes and one that ultimately tells you that x-character is formidable and dangerous. The higher it is, the more bounties that character has likely committed.

You say Bellamy's bounty being 200m is not warranted, or Luffy's bounty with Zoro's bounty differential is to great. Obviously, there's something wrong there IF it was there to display the strength of an individual, it is not, that's the point. Tamago is unlikely to be as strong as Zoro. I think you should get the point by now. It's not just 1 character you think is stronger than someone else with a higher bounty, you have multiple people that you and likely many others would agree with. Doesn't that sort of give you any hints that the basis for your understanding of bounties is inaccurate?

It's all about crimes committed, everything else like strength and collateral damage are relatively secondary. Could be the strongest individual in the world, and you wouldn't have a high bounty. It's the crime that one commits and the amount that will ultimately earn a character a significantly high bounty. A character of 100m could be even more powerful than someone with a bounty of 600m.

Sabo's bounty is 602m for a reason. It's not because he's weak, it's because he needs to accumulate more crimes. He could be superior to Perospero and even Cracker for all we know.

Hell, Urouge is 108m and maybe it's gone up by 100m since the past 2 years, we don't know. If we just assume Snack has a bounty higher than Perospero and less than Cracker, he could be anywhere between 700 and 860m in bounty. Someone with a 300m bounty at best has defeated such an individual. Bounty is clearly not strongly related to strength.

You seem to really argue points without reading what the post says. You keep saying I am essentially saying a bounty level is equal to a power level where several times I say that bounties are based on several factors and don’t follow one specific rule. If anyone is dismissing ideas just because it doesn’t line up with what is established it is you.

Almost everyone agrees that bounties are based off of the WG subjective threat assessment but you propose a hard rule that it is based on number of crimes committed and say that strength is barely a factor.

However Oda has said that bounties are tricky to calculate in SBS 36, which means their isn’t a magic formula but we do know overall threat and strength are factors. In chapter 320 Aokiji expressly states that combat abilities are a factor to a bounty, along with one’s overall threat to the WG. Committing crimes won’t get you a high bounty if you don’t pose a threat.

Also, we know that the “rules” for calculating also change when a bounty reaches over 300,000 because Jinbei said the WG doesn’t tend to increase bounties above this in chapter 628.

We don’t know what goes into a bounty overall but the manga has said combat abilities and overall threat to the WG are factors. Committing a lot of crimes doesn’t necessarily mean you are strong or a threat but there is a connection.

 

[M3J]

As far as I can tell the main yonko commanders are between 35-45 years old. Basically about twice ace's age. In the shiki flashbacks marco was seen in WB's crew IIRC. Vista seems about that age. Katakuri is about that age considering he is big mom's second son. And we saw shanks looking around 20 back when roger died. And ace did seem to be the younger one of the wb commanders altogether. Most of them look to be at least middle age with a few exceptions.

That'd explain why most of them have higher bounties than Ace, then. The only way Ace could have had his bounty at a high level otherwise was if his lineage was revealed, otherwise he wasn't in the game long enough to have as high a bounty. Also, given Ace's charisma, he may have avoided getting his bounty increased too much, but who knows.

 

[kkck]

That'd explain why most of them have higher bounties than Ace, then. The only way Ace could have had his bounty at a high level otherwise was if his lineage was revealed, otherwise he wasn't in the game long enough to have as high a bounty. Also, given Ace's charisma, he may have avoided getting his bounty increased too much, but who knows.

Well, his lineage was known, just not to the entire world. And his bounty was 550 mil, more than luffy's current bounty which so far considers him storming and escaping all 3 great marine fortresses. However as a WB commander it is not impossible that ace managed to pull this off. He was a logia, which would to begin with make 99% of the marine's forces utterly incapable of dealing with him. Even before he joined the WB pirates he was capable of going toe to toe with jinbe even though they seemingly fought near the fucking ocean and jinbe is capable of fighting using water, which would be something like a double weakness for ace. Given ace's ability to fight jinbe to a draw in what would seem like unfavorable conditions it does not appear his bounty was in any way exaggerated. I don't see how his charisma would be able to prevent his bounty from going up though. It's not like he can chat up the world government to keep it down.

If I had to guess though, I would say that 400 mil is more or less the starting point for a yonko's main crew. We are talking about roughly 10 people per yonko crew and we have a pretty decent outline from what that looks like in big mom's crew.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

You seem to really argue points without reading what the post says. You keep saying I am essentially saying a bounty level is equal to a power level where several times I say that bounties are based on several factors and don’t follow one specific rule. If anyone is dismissing ideas just because it doesn’t line up with what is established it is you.

Almost everyone agrees that bounties are based off of the WG subjective threat assessment but you propose a hard rule that it is based on number of crimes committed and say that strength is barely a factor.

However Oda has said that bounties are tricky to calculate in SBS 36, which means their isn’t a magic formula but we do know overall threat and strength are factors. In chapter 320 Aokiji expressly states that combat abilities are a factor to a bounty, along with one’s overall threat to the WG. Committing crimes won’t get you a high bounty if you don’t pose a threat.

Also, we know that the “rules” for calculating also change when a bounty reaches over 300,000 because Jinbei said the WG doesn’t tend to increase bounties above this in chapter 628.

We don’t know what goes into a bounty overall but the manga has said combat abilities and overall threat to the WG are factors. Committing a lot of crimes doesn’t necessarily mean you are strong or a threat but there is a connection.

Everyone agreeing on something doesn't make it true. A lot of things believed by the general fandom isn't evidence based. Most of it is off first impressions that were never scrutinised.

There really is only 2 rules, and that's the number crime and the severity of the crime. Bounties aren't labels.

If strength accounted for much like I said before, bounty values would be nothing like they ae, it clearly isn't based off strength because you clearly cannot standardise it. Put all the people with similar bounty and you'll see there's no correlation. That much is a fact which implies your understanding of bounty is not in line with the Manga.

What Jinbei said there is clearly not accurately translated. We see bounties go up beyond 300m after a crime. What he clearly means is that it doesn't go up as easily as it does after the 300m threshold.

Committing crimes clearly does raise bounty. It's farcical that you can claim crimes won't raise a bounty, yet:

1. Robin only gained a 1m bounty increase until after 20 years where her second crime known by the WG was perceived.
2. Luffy's bounty only went up after so many crimes.

When you find someone who gained a 500m bounty or 1 bill bounty after 1 crime, please, provide. Until then, what you're saying here is really baseless as there's no evidence to support it.

For you to claim bounties are wrong, like I said, it doesn't require you stating that bounty is affected primarily by strength, it's heavily implied. Strength is clearly not as related as you think it is. All the bounties in the series disputes that school of thought.

Strong correlation between number of crimes & high bounty; hardly any for strength. Your grasp of bounty cannot explain why someone like Urouge has a bounty of a 108m while other Supernova of relative strength were triple his. Your hypothesis is flawed.

 

[XXGenesis]

To answer the question, without getting wrapped up in Bounties, & Threat levels or overall power. No Ace was not entirely Yonkou Commander Quality...Remeber Ace was Dueled & Tied with Jimbei, that's how he met WB. So Ace IMO logia body/abilities aside he's around Jimbei's Lv if you ask me. However like Eneru, his logia ability is powerful. & Jimbei IMO was stronger than Luffy & skilled during the Paramount War.

WB also took him in & gave him a Division Captain spot to protect him from the Navy & others who may find out he's Roger's Son.

Ace made a decent name for himself, & had a great DF ability. But as for Haki & I'll say Katakuri Lv..No.

 

[Beagopa]

Everyone agreeing on something doesn't make it true. A lot of things believed by the general fandom isn't evidence based. Most of it is off first impressions that were never scrutinised.

There really is only 2 rules, and that's the number crime and the severity of the crime. Bounties aren't labels.

If strength accounted for much like I said before, bounty values would be nothing like they ae, it clearly isn't based off strength because you clearly cannot standardise it. Put all the people with similar bounty and you'll see there's no correlation. That much is a fact which implies your understanding of bounty is not in line with the Manga.

What Jinbei said there is clearly not accurately translated. We see bounties go up beyond 300m after a crime. What he clearly means is that it doesn't go up as easily as it does after the 300m threshold.

Committing crimes clearly does raise bounty. It's farcical that you can claim crimes won't raise a bounty, yet:

1. Robin only gained a 1m bounty increase until after 20 years where her second crime known by the WG was perceived.
2. Luffy's bounty only went up after so many crimes.

When you find someone who gained a 500m bounty or 1 bill bounty after 1 crime, please, provide. Until then, what you're saying here is really baseless as there's no evidence to support it.

For you to claim bounties are wrong, like I said, it doesn't require you stating that bounty is affected primarily by strength, it's heavily implied. Strength is clearly not as related as you think it is. All the bounties in the series disputes that school of thought.

Strong correlation between number of crimes & high bounty; hardly any for strength. Your grasp of bounty cannot explain why someone like Urouge has a bounty of a 108m while other Supernova of relative strength were triple his. Your hypothesis is flawed.

You can disagree with me but Oda said bounties are tricky meaning we don’t know what the WG considers. However Aokiji said they consider combat ability and overall threat. I’ll go with Aokiji’s explanation over yours. Combat ability = strength so to argue that strength isn’t a factor ignores what has already been established

 

[kkck]

What the actual hell is this convo even about? No one is saying bounties are an absolute measure of strength. That would be ridiculous. Bounties are at best a rough reference of such a thing and only when context is considered. Take big mom's crew. We have katakuri's, smoothie's, cracker's and perospero's bounties. Would it be a stretch to suggest that in their specific case the bounties represent more or less where they stand against each in regards to strength (without of course the difference between their bounties accounting for how big the difference is)? The answer to that would be a resounding yes. On the other hand, would it make sense to suggest child robin compared to boa hackcock at any point strengthwise? Of course not, that would be retarded. Another case, we have pre time skip luffy with a 300 mil bounty and post time skip pekoms with a 330 mil bounty. Would it make sense to suggest the two of them are comparable because their bounties are? Of fucking course not, pekoms is a competent haki user who was able to easily wreck caribou, of course another rookie wouldn't stand a chance against him. Luffy got his 300 mil because he stormed ennies lobby, wrecked it and paraded out of there in a crushing defeat for the world government. However luffy didn't even defeat someone important or even the strongest person in the island, he defeated rob lucci, a worthless piece of fodder that is not worth a fraction of any of the vice admirals that was there and inexplicably decided that a buster call was more reasonable than a quick zoru to easily and instantly murder luffy. Pekoms got his bounty presumably because he is a competent fighter in a yonko crew. Considering how low his overall rank in the crew probably is (not being a minister or commander of any sort) it is rather impressive his bounty is so high.

No one is saying bounties are an absolute measure of strength. That would be unequivocally absurd. Bounties are at best rough subjective estimates by the world government regarding a person's "threat level" which given enough context might give us relevant information on different issues. But without context (as in, no information) the number is meaningless. Without context a 1000 mil bounty can mean anything between a person being as strong as a top yonko commander or having a button which detonates a nuclear bomb in majiroa.

 

[M3J]

Well, his lineage was known, just not to the entire world. And his bounty was 550 mil, more than luffy's current bounty which so far considers him storming and escaping all 3 great marine fortresses. However as a WB commander it is not impossible that ace managed to pull this off. He was a logia, which would to begin with make 99% of the marine's forces utterly incapable of dealing with him. Even before he joined the WB pirates he was capable of going toe to toe with jinbe even though they seemingly fought near the fucking ocean and jinbe is capable of fighting using water, which would be something like a double weakness for ace. Given ace's ability to fight jinbe to a draw in what would seem like unfavorable conditions it does not appear his bounty was in any way exaggerated. I don't see how his charisma would be able to prevent his bounty from going up though. It's not like he can chat up the world government to keep it down.

If I had to guess though, I would say that 400 mil is more or less the starting point for a yonko's main crew. We are talking about roughly 10 people per yonko crew and we have a pretty decent outline from what that looks like in big mom's crew.

When was his lineage known? But then again, Luffy's lineage hasn't made the government shoot his bounty up tremendously, so it has to take more than that or being the son of one of the most notorious criminals.

If anything, his bounty wasn't even close to the strength and potential Ace had. And his charisma could make some Marines not want to make him even more wanted, just as a Marine was sore at Luffy and gave him his first bounty.

To answer the question, without getting wrapped up in Bounties, & Threat levels or overall power. No Ace was not entirely Yonkou Commander Quality...Remeber Ace was Dueled & Tied with Jimbei, that's how he met WB. So Ace IMO logia body/abilities aside he's around Jimbei's Lv if you ask me. However like Eneru, his logia ability is powerful. & Jimbei IMO was stronger than Luffy & skilled during the Paramount War.

WB also took him in & gave him a Division Captain spot to protect him from the Navy & others who may find out he's Roger's Son.

Ace made a decent name for himself, & had a great DF ability. But as for Haki & I'll say Katakuri Lv..No.

Ace dueled and tied with someone who could use water and use the power of lake/sea, if I recall correctly. That's pretty impressive, especially considering how his fighting abilities have constantly been praised.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

You can disagree with me but Oda said bounties are tricky meaning we don’t know what the WG considers. However Aokiji said they consider combat ability and overall threat. I’ll go with Aokiji’s explanation over yours. Combat ability = strength so to argue that strength isn’t a factor ignores what has already been established

It's not tricky, there's no rocket science to it.

It's all considered, even penchant for collateral damage. Bottom line is it's the crimes and severity that raise bounties. What Aokiji said doesn't contradict anything I've said sadly enough.

It's not Doriki.

All you've done is selectively choose what you want to believe rather than do the logical thing which is it merge everything stated as long as there's no contradiction. You're acting like one is true and the other isn't lol.

You can deny it all you want, fact is Deeds (crimes) account for bounty increases more than strength and anything else, otherwise, Bounty would literally be a rating of Doriki.

Hell, the Manga never stated that Haki was explicitly hard until 250+ chapters later, doesn't mean it wasn't since it was implied. Same case here. Really just requires reading between the lines.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 31, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 31, 2017 ---

We have katakuri's, smoothie's, cracker's and perospero's bounties. Would it be a stretch to suggest that in their specific case the bounties represent more or less where they stand against each in regards to strength (without of course the difference between their bounties accounting for how big the difference is)? The answer to that would be a resounding yes.

Actually, no, it's more of an assumption.

Katakuri is the 2nd son, Cracker is the 14th son; doesn't necessarily mean Katakuri was stronger just because he had a higher bounty. Maybe Katakuri has been on more missions, therefore committed more crimes than Cracker had the opportunity to. It's not a rough estimate of strength, but of experience at the very least. It won't give you an explicit determination of strength. You can look at 10 people with different bounties ranging from 100m to 900m, and the best one can say is they're all likely very strong, but be unable to draw an accurate rank. Point being made is strength doesn't stand for account for much, it does factor in, but doesn't account for much.

No one is saying bounties are an absolute measure of strength. That would be unequivocally absurd. Bounties are at best rough subjective estimates by the world government regarding a person's "threat level" which given enough context might give us relevant information on different issues. But without context (as in, no information) the number is meaningless. Without context a 1000 mil bounty can mean anything between a person being as strong as a top yonko commander or having a button which detonates a nuclear bomb in majiroa.

Re-read the first post which is the quote below, the OP clearly implies so and is overestimating bounty which is why he's questioning whether Big Mom's crew is superior simply because of the difference in bounty. Threat level, yes and this is the most accurate thing you've said thus far.

Bounty is not even remotely an estimate for strength, otherwise, people of roughly similar bounty would be roughly equal strength with the odd 1 or 2 outliers that somewhat contradict the trend.

Looking back at some pre-time skip stuff I just remembered that Ace’s bounty was 550,000,000 right before he died. (Probably would’ve gone up if he survived after it became common knowledge that he was Roger’s son but since they had him in custody there wasn’t a need to increase it then.)

This isn’t even equal to Persopero, who isn’t even a Yonko commander. Now, obviously bounty does not equal strength, but strength is a factor. This poses the question, was Ace not a top tier commander or does Big Mom just have an especially strong crew?

 

[Beagopa]

It's not tricky, there's no rocket science to it.

It's all considered, even penchant for collateral damage. Bottom line is it's the crimes and severity that raise bounties. What Aokiji said doesn't contradict anything I've said sadly enough.

It's not Doriki.

All you've done is selectively choose what you want to believe rather than do the logical thing which is it merge everything stated as long as there's no contradiction. You're acting like one is true and the other isn't lol.

You can deny it all you want, fact is Deeds (crimes) account for bounty increases more than strength and anything else, otherwise, Bounty would literally be a rating of Doriki.

Hell, the Manga never stated that Haki was explicitly hard until 250+ chapters later, doesn't mean it wasn't since it was implied. Same case here. Really just requires reading between the lines.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 31, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 31, 2017 ---

Actually, no, it's more of an assumption.

Katakuri is the 2nd son, Cracker is the 14th son; doesn't necessarily mean Katakuri was stronger just because he had a higher bounty. Maybe Katakuri has been on more missions, therefore committed more crimes than Cracker had the opportunity to. It's not a rough estimate of strength, but of experience at the very least. It won't give you an explicit determination of strength. You can look at 10 people with different bounties ranging from 100m to 900m, and the best one can say is they're all likely very strong, but be unable to draw an accurate rank. Point being made is strength doesn't stand for account for much, it does factor in, but doesn't account for much.



Re-read the first post which is the quote below, the OP clearly implies so and is overestimating bounty which is why he's questioning whether Big Mom's crew is superior simply because of the difference in bounty. Threat level, yes and this is the most accurate thing you've said thus far.

Bounty is not even remotely an estimate for strength, otherwise, people of roughly similar bounty would be roughly equal strength with the odd 1 or 2 outliers that somewhat contradict the trend.

Read second paragraph second sentence of OP....

 

[kkck]

When was his lineage known? But then again, Luffy's lineage hasn't made the government shoot his bounty up tremendously, so it has to take more than that or being the son of one of the most notorious criminals.

If anything, his bounty wasn't even close to the strength and potential Ace had. And his charisma could make some Marines not want to make him even more wanted, just as a Marine was sore at Luffy and gave him his first bounty.

Remember when sengoku screamed to the world that ace is roger's son? That is what I mean here by his lineage being known. Perhaps not by everyone but certainly by important people in the world government. As for ace's bounty, I would argue it was about right for someone of his strength. Potential wise it would be about short of course considering that would mean giving him a comparable bounty to someone like WB or roger or the yonko.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Read second paragraph second sentence of OP....

I did. BUT...

This poses the question, was Ace not a top tier commander or does Big Mom just have an especially strong crew?

This still contradicts it because it conflicts with your premise' non-sequitur.

It's like saying that Height doesn't correlate with age, but then go on to say, but the Whitebeard Pirates are shorter than Big Mom Pirates, are they younger?

If you never posed the question that Big Mom's pirates might be stronger just because of Ace's bounty, then your point would have been consistent. It inherently betrays your premise because you're still trying to base the strength/superiority of a crew on bounty value.

Ace is one of the youngest in the WB Pirate crew. He's only been a Pirate for what, 3 years and earned a bounty of 550m. How long do you think people like Katakuri and co. have been pirating for? 1 year and suddenly earned a bounty of approximately 1 billion? Like I said or implied, bounties rise over a period of time. It's quite the achievement to earn that much in bounty in 3 years when we have people who have been Pirates for decades and are just about 1 billion.