Games Mafia Game 58 - Umineko: How to play 13 - END GAME

[Erinyes]

What about the inactive people?

No, better not lynch inactive, they most of them likely to be hostkilled.

 

[Zasz]

There's xnut who made a very random vote, and there's niichan who I've been building my case on the whole day who most likely made a mistake in the previous day. Other than that we got nothing, so we're either waiting on a result from lynching niichan/xnut and going from there or we're waiting on our investigative roles to give us something sometime soon.
What about you Zasz? I don't recall you hinting at anything. And what are your thoughts on niichan if you've read the previous posts?

Oh right, the hints!
If I remember correctly, this is my very first time with this role.
It is an active one.
As for niichan, I don't really know what he's thinking at the moment.
I can agree being suspicious of EmptySoul, but IMHO there are others that need our attention.

 

[GrySun]

Oh, I'll give you my thoughts on this before the day is over, don't you worry.

Good point about the mafia possibly being in disarray after Spriggan's death. But that's exactly why I see EmptySoul or xnut as better targets to pressure than niichan at the moment. The latter just gives me the same impression of a veteran player like Demon; you could spend the whole day pressuring him and you wouldn't get anything useful out of him. The others are much more likely to slip up, if you ask me.

What's more, if there are two mafias and niichan really is from the same one as Spriggan, we need to be careful about thinning their numbers too much and leaving the other mafia too powerful. In these cases, leading one mafia group into killing those they think are their dangerous rivals would be the ideal situation, and we've already seen there's at least one pretty powerful mafia role in the game (Mafia Detective). Clearing the field for one side is most likely going to mean game over for the town, so it's a tricky situation in any case.

So despite him making a mistake in the previous day you'd let him go because others could make mistakes if pressured? That doesn't make any sense.

Your second point is much more interesting and I agree, that screwed us over in the Dragon Ball game. But we don't even know that there's 2 mafias this time around. I used to think there's 2 mafias due to the Death Note system, but if those hints are to be believed using the Note "drains power" from the others in a group, so maybe that's the only action they can do when they have the Note? Which would make it a lot more balanced since they have to give the Note away, if I understood it correctly.
And even if we assume there's 2 mafias, you should know that we must kill all of them sooner or later. I could understand you if they already lost 2-3 members, but they lost only 1 person so far, if niichan is in their mafia too then that's 2, with 2(or maybe more?) still left. Abandoning making them weaker for shooting in the dark with EmptySoul sounds like a bad strategy. We're gonna lose 1 or maybe even 2 townies to hostkills soon(unless we're lucky and desin/dimaria are mafias, but best not to expect that). Idk Vand, this doesn't seem like your usual train of thought, defending a mafia that lost only 1 member in favor of trying our luck with someone else. Could you also be in their mafia? In that case I hope you honor our age old contract

I... don't see how it would benefit the town if a townie came out saying they have the Death Note. Asking for protection? If a mafia gave them the Note, that just means they'll be able to kill anyone else they want and maybe even block the holder with an Escort. If there are two mafias, that would also make them a target in case they wanted to take possession of it.

It just makes more sense for us to discuss a few potential targets and hoping the player who has the Note is a townie who follows through.

If we assume the mafia had the Note last night(which our last chapter with hints seems to suggest) then it's very likely whoever has it now could be a townie, so them revealing could give us a confirmed townie. And if we understood it correctly the Note is not something mafia wants to have so they may not even try to kill the person who claims to have it. True about them blocking him with Escort though, but they can't know who that person's target is anyway, they could just as well kill a townie or an opposing mafia with it? Could also be interesting if we could have the Note holder give the Note to one of us so we townies have a kill ability at night too.
But it has it's risks yeah. In later game phases it'll probably become a necessity to manage the Note correctly though.

 

[Nii]

I see EmptySoul actively browsing through MH for quite some time now, but despite that there's still no answer to my questions. Clearly she seems to be avoiding further talk, which only makes her even more suspicious. I've had her on my list since yesterday, and she keeps getting more and more suspicious, so she's definitely getting my vote for now.

!votekill EmptySoul

 

[Lawl Po Bia]

 

[MonkeyD-Dragon]

Since I will be leaving soon and I'll probably miss the end of the day, I will make my vote now. Out of all suspects and rereading the posts from day 1, I feel niichan is the one who is the most likely to be a mafia, that defense for Spriggan was certainly suspicious when it was almost clear that he's mafia.

!votekill Niichan

 

[Zasz]

Hmm, it appears that due to timezones, this Day Phase became a bit stale...
Anyway, I guess I'll repeat myself:

Votekill Elusia

I mean, I know that it's probably due to what I've written just above, but it's also true that she didn't say much about herself.

 

[EmptySoul]

I see EmptySoul actively browsing through MH for quite some time now, but despite that there's still no answer to my questions. Clearly she seems to be avoiding further talk, which only makes her even more suspicious. I've had her on my list since yesterday, and she keeps getting more and more suspicious, so she's definitely getting my vote for now.

!votekill EmptySoul

Answered most of your questions and Already said everything i had to say with the Erinyes thing
On day 1 you chose to not vote Emperor spriggan &voted me instead even though he was way more suspicious than I,& like Grysun said u barely even commented on him possibly being a mafia for some reason
I think the whole "i dont wanna be the last to vote" was just an excuse so you dont have to vote your colleague
And it Seems to me that you won't be convinced im not mafia no matter what i say or maybe you already know that but dont wanna appear to be convinced because im the easiest townie kill right now
huh,mr.mafia?

Ur proving to be pretty suspicious yourself but i wont vote kill u just yet

 

[GrySun]

Now that you mention it, that is indeed funny. He called me a wall that made up his mind but so has he about Empty, seeing it as his savior this day.

 

[Erinyes]

Kato is usually a lot more active so that is a thing to take notice of. On the other hand he basically suicided the last 2 games through his conduct so he may keep it extra low + real life interference as he said in one of his posts.

Maybe to try to make some kind of progress we should start dropping some hints. I'll say that is a role I never had before which includes bulletproof, plain townie, mafia detective, hider, doctor, mafia escort

weren't you a witch last game, and Jesus in a previous one too ?

 

[Zasz]

This whole debate about Empry is intriguing, but I fear this might be a way for the Mafia to distract us.
Anyway, did you say something about yourself Gry?
There were so many wall of texts, that I might have missed whatever you said. XD

 

[xnut]

Wait did you really just tell me my random vote on day 1 was suspicious dude wth...

 

[GrySun]

This whole debate about Empry is intriguing, but I fear this might be a way for the Mafia to distract us.
Anyway, did you say something about yourself Gry?
There were so many wall of texts, that I might have missed whatever you said. XD

Exactly Empty is being used by Spriggan's mafia(which may just be the only mafia) to save niichan today. Zasz you know I'm rarely wrong about these things, trust my judgement here. It just has to be niichan, he made a big mistake and people are trying to give him a pass. We can kill Empty via a Death Note if someone has it or tomorrow if it's absolutely necessary. But niichan will show as mafia, I keep getting more certain of it as I watch this day go on. They are trying to save him hard.

Yes I made a hint about myself before, was hoping Erin would make her new summary soon, she said she will.

 

[Vandred]

So despite him making a mistake in the previous day you'd let him go because others could make mistakes if pressured? That doesn't make any sense.

First, I'm not saying to let him go but to keep focusing on the other main suspects too, and second, yeah, if faced with the alternative of going for two equally suspect people, I'd rather keep the talkative one alive and lynch the less active one, depending on what they say in their defense. And on how others behave in return.

Your second point is much more interesting and I agree, that screwed us over in the Dragon Ball game. But we don't even know that there's 2 mafias this time around. I used to think there's 2 mafias due to the Death Note system, but if those hints are to be believed using the Note "drains power" from the others in a group, so maybe that's the only action they can do when they have the Note? Which would make it a lot more balanced since they have to give the Note away, if I understood it correctly.
And even if we assume there's 2 mafias, you should know that we must kill all of them sooner or later. I could understand you if they already lost 2-3 members, but they lost only 1 person so far, if niichan is in their mafia too then that's 2, with 2(or maybe more?) still left. Abandoning making them weaker for shooting in the dark with EmptySoul sounds like a bad strategy. We're gonna lose 1 or maybe even 2 townies to hostkills soon(unless we're lucky and desin/dimaria are mafias, but best not to expect that). Idk Vand, this doesn't seem like your usual train of thought, defending a mafia that lost only 1 member in favor of trying our luck with someone else. Could you also be in their mafia? In that case I hope you honor our age old contract

That's actually an interesting thought, the Note being a hindrance for mafia and a chance to kill for townies. That would be pretty cool.

Just as I should know that we'll have to kill both mafias, you should know what a stomp a game where one of the mafia is unilaterally slaughtered can turn into, especially once the more obvious lies are going to crop up. Besides, if you're so sure niichan is mafia, wouldn't it be more useful to keep him alive as a target for Dets for one more night? Unless we get a confirmed townie, the remaining ones (which I seriously hope are at least a couple) are going to be in the dark about their results unless they get really lucky, even more so with the Note there to muddle up results. Still, I'd have to agree that it doesn't necessarily need to be niichan. The day is still not over yet, and a few interesting details are already appearing...

By the way, I'm not sure if you're trolling me about my "usual" train of thought, since I've been mafia more times than I've been townie

On that note, I can tell you my role feels a little like a return to the basics. It works similarly to the only other townie role I've had, but with much less cool applications...

If we assume the mafia had the Note last night(which our last chapter with hints seems to suggest) then it's very likely whoever has it now could be a townie, so them revealing could give us a confirmed townie. And if we understood it correctly the Note is not something mafia wants to have so they may not even try to kill the person who claims to have it. True about them blocking him with Escort though, but they can't know who that person's target is anyway, they could just as well kill a townie or an opposing mafia with it? Could also be interesting if we could have the Note holder give the Note to one of us so we townies have a kill ability at night too.
But it has it's risks yeah. In later game phases it'll probably become a necessity to manage the Note correctly though.

The only reason I could see as valid for the holder of the Note to reveal themselves would be in a suicide attempt to give Dets a target to check their sanity on (which would still need to be confirmed), and then probably getting killed in Priority 3. Otherwise, they're better off staying anonymous, in my opinion.

What's more, if you're so convinced niichan is mafia and a townie is holding the Note, wouldn't it be simpler to tell them to use it to kill niichan tonight, after he'll have been investigated by Dets, so that he'll most likely turn up dead tomorrow and they could have a clear reading of their sanity?

 

[Zasz]

Exactly Empty is being used by Spriggan's mafia(which may just be the only mafia) to save niichan today. Zasz you know I'm rarely wrong about these things, trust my judgement here. It just has to be niichan, he made a big mistake and people are trying to give him a pass. We can kill Empty via a Death Note if someone has it or tomorrow if it's absolutely necessary. But niichan will show as mafia, I keep getting more certain of it as I watch this day go on. They are trying to save him hard.

Yes I made a hint about myself before, was hoping Erin would make her new summary soon, she said she will.

Of course Empty could be Mafia, but as you said, if there's a Townie with the note, he or she should write Empty's name in the note and pass it to someone he or she deems trustable.
Anyway, I'll wait for Erin's summary then!

 

[Erinyes]

Updated recap, as usual if i missed any hint, just let me know ill fix it Asap

Summary

Arjuna as Furfur ->
Belserion as Virgilia ->
Demonspeed as Kanon -> Doctor, Killed on N1
desin24 as Cornelia -> never had the role before which includes bulletproof, plain townie, mafia detective, hider, doctor, mafia escort
DiMaria Yesta as Gertrude ->
Elusia as Gaap ->
Emperor Spriggan as Dlanor -> Mafia det, lynched on D1
EmptySoul as Eva -> Said she's not mafia, she thinks its pretty lame but could be beneficial at some point.
Erinyes as Erika -> fits her somehow
gnut as Krauss -> Old role, had it before
Gryffindor as Maria ->
GrySun as George -> Not that useful and may end up be killed due to his role
Kato756 as Zepar -> Seems disppointed by his role, said the role itself that made him go WHY ??
Lady pompom as Ange -> doesnt llike her role. active role. interesting role, but she s afraid not to use it properly.
Lambu as Rosa ->
MarmaladeSky as Jessica ->
MonkeyD-Dragon as Natsuhi -> not a really helpful role as it works only in specific conditions against specific roles
niichan as Battler -> a pretty plain role
Organizized as Rudolf -> Detective killed on N1
syx as Beatrice -> Said he's not mafia
Vandred as Kyrie ->a role that works similarly to (Insane) Doctor but less useful
WithYouInSpirit as Lion -> claimed a passive role
Xnut as Kinzo ->
Zasz as Shannon ->very first time he gets this role. an active role
zimbardo as Hideyoshi ->

Ill try to do update it if necessary before the end of the day

 

[GrySun]

First, I'm not saying to let him go but to keep focusing on the other main suspects too, and second, yeah, if faced with the alternative of going for two equally suspect people, I'd rather keep the talkative one alive and lynch the less active one, depending on what they say in their defense. And on how others behave in return.

Wow, I never thought I'd catch you of all people contradicting themselves. Here you say you want to keep the talkative one alive as your reason for letting niichan live, and here:

The latter just gives me the same impression of a veteran player like Demon; you could spend the whole day pressuring him and you wouldn't get anything useful out of him. The others are much more likely to slip up, if you ask me.

You say he's like Demon, can't get anything useful out of him, while others can slip up. Do I need to spell out the contradiction for you and others? You want to keep the talkative one, while acknowledging you can't get anything useful out of him. Vandred what the hell? You and niichan are mafia, is that what this is supposed to tell me?

 

[Vandred]

Updated recap, as usual if i missed any hint, just let me know ill fix it Asap

Summary

Arjuna as Furfur ->
Belserion as Virgilia ->
Demonspeed as Kanon -> Doctor, Killed on N1
desin24 as Cornelia -> never had the role before which includes bulletproof, plain townie, mafia detective, hider, doctor, mafia escort
DiMaria Yesta as Gertrude ->
Elusia as Gaap ->
Emperor Spriggan as Dlanor -> Mafia det, lynched on D1
EmptySoul as Eva -> Said she's not mafia, she thinks its pretty lame but could be beneficial at some point.
Erinyes as Erika -> fits her somehow
gnut as Krauss -> Old role, had it before
Gryffindor as Maria ->
GrySun as George -> Not that useful and may end up be killed due to his role
Kato756 as Zepar -> Seems disppointed by his role, said the role itself that made him go WHY ??
Lady pompom as Ange -> doesnt llike her role. active role. interesting role, but she s afraid not to use it properly.
Lambu as Rosa ->
MarmaladeSky as Jessica ->
MonkeyD-Dragon as Natsuhi -> not a really helpful role as it works only in specific conditions against specific roles
niichan as Battler -> a pretty plain role
Organizized as Rudolf -> Detective killed on N1
syx as Beatrice -> Said he's not mafia
Vandred as Kyrie ->
WithYouInSpirit as Lion -> claimed a passive role
Xnut as Kinzo ->
Zasz as Shannon ->very first time he gets this role. an active role
zimbardo as Hideyoshi ->

Ill try to do update it if necessary before the end of the day

You can add my hint: a role that works similarly to (Insane) Doctor, but that I personally find a lot less useful...

Wow, I never thought I'd catch you of all people contradicting themselves. Here you say you want to keep the talkative one alive as your reason for letting niichan live, and here:



You say he's like Demon, can't get anything useful out of him, while others can slip up. Do I need to spell out the contradiction for you and others? You want to keep the talkative one, while acknowledging you can't get anything useful out of him. Vandred what the hell? You and niichan are mafia, is that what this is supposed to tell me?

I've said you're not going to get anything out of niichan by pressuring him. Do I need to spell it out...? Just read what I first said yesterday about Spriggan and I'm sure you can piece it together.

You're kinda jumpy this time, you know. And you've ignored the rest of my post.

 

[GrySun]

Ignored it because I'm in an OW game right now, gimme more time. That contradiction was a lot more important. And I think you're reaching here, since your reason for letting niichan live makes little sense.

 

[Erinyes]

Im pretty sure there s some lovers in the game, considering the setting and the theme im trying so hard to find out some potential "connections" between players. we shouldnt overlook this possibility.