Hangout Akatsuki no Yona Hangout Thread

How do you prefer the Spoiler/Chapter thread set-up?

  • Different threads for each spoiler/chapter (current set up)

    Votes: 4 57.1%
  • 2 constant threads (1 for spoiler, 1 for chapter) to allow for continued discussion

    Votes: 3 42.9%
  • Other (suggest in thread)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    7

SamuelDean

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I think so too. The only time when she ever remembers Su-won’s words about killing Il for revenge is here and it sounds like ‘No way my kind dad would have done something like it.’
http://www.titaniascans.com/reader/Akatsuki+no+Yona/063:+Shaken+Journey/#page=14

It seems she accepted that he was a bad King, but does not want to believe that there may be more to her father than the incompetent, but nice and good person she knows and remembers.
I wonder if something similar also applies to Hak....He doesn t know this reason of Soo Won, but Hak never consciously mentions the other possible reason..that the situation of Kouka could have also be a source of motivation for the murder of King Il.
Even though I believe subconciously he is aware of it. Hak is no idiot after all.
 

Mini_kinkin

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I wonder if something similar also applies to Hak....He doesn t know this reason of Soo Won, but Hak never consciously mentions the other possible reason..that the situation of Kouka could have also be a source of motivation for the murder of King Il.
Even though I believe subconciously he is aware of it. Hak is no idiot after all.
There is the whole thinking from the country angle.
And then there is the whole personal angle.

Like I said before, Hak is not idealistic like Yona. Neither is he very concerned about royalty or even the country. He just wants to protect his close ones. I think that's okay because if all of the trio were the same it would be uni-dimensional.

Anyway, Hak can't look beyond the killing for the country because in his eyes killing Il was wrong, and we already know how unforgiving he is. Plus he respected Il. Though there was one time Hak said Soo-Won won't do anything meaningless, and he is probably aware Soo-Won is a good king, he can probably never look past the deed that he did to King Il who he loved and respected, or admit that Soo-Won is good for the country.

This is realistic in my opinion and I will tell you why giving a real world example. Suppose someone is the ruler/prime minister/president of a country and he is actually doing a good job at it, but that very person murdered or raped/abused one of your family members, would you ever admit they are a good ruler? Realistically speaking you have to be Yona, saint-like level of understanding for that to happen. But normal people like Hak will never be able to look past what that person did to someone they love or be objective about it. Or even admit the good things the ruler has done.

As readers we are more objective because we aren't directly involved. Kind of like Zeno - who views everything from a bird's eye and is quite rational and objective in his opinions. But Hak who is personally involved is an exception.
 

SamuelDean

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There is the whole thinking from the country angle.
And then there is the whole personal angle.

Like I said before, Hak is not idealistic like Yona. Neither is he very concerned about royalty or even the country. He just wants to protect his close ones. I think that's okay because if all of the trio were the same it would be uni-dimensional.

Anyway, Hak can't look beyond the killing for the country because in his eyes killing Il was wrong, and we already know how unforgiving he is. Plus he respected Il. Though there was one time Hak said Soo-Won won't do anything meaningless, and he is probably aware Soo-Won is a good king, he can probably never look past the deed that he did to King Il who he loved and respected, or admit that Soo-Won is good for the country.

This is realistic in my opinion and I will tell you why giving a real world example. Suppose someone is the ruler/prime minister/president of a country and he is actually doing a good job at it, but that very person murdered or raped/abused one of your family members, would you ever admit they are a good ruler? Realistically speaking you have to be Yona, saint-like level of understanding for that to happen. But normal people like Hak will never be able to look past what that person did to someone they love or be objective about it. Or even admit the good things the ruler has done.
That s why I believe, that he is subconsciously aware of it. I am not sure about it,if you have to be "an angel" to reflect upon the reasons for the deeds of a person that caused you pain. I think that is a part of the process called "forgiveness".


As readers we are more objective because we aren't directly involved. Kind of like Zeno - who views everything from a bird's eye and is quite rational and objective in his opinions. But Hak who is personally involved is an exception.
A side not...I am not so sure about Zeno...Zeno is not a rational person per se in comparison to Soo Won for example.
Zeno was more or less forced by his personal fate to develop said traits...
I am not even sure, if Zeno is loyal just to Yona and her crew or if his loyalty is more directed at the previous King Hiryuu and his will and wishes...
Somehow I assume that the wishes of King Hiryuu and Yona might differ.
 
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Mini_kinkin

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That s why I believe, that he is subconsciously aware of it. I am not sure about it,if you have to be "an angel" to reflect upon the reasons for the deeds of a person that caused you pain. I think that is a part of the process called "forgiveness".

A side not...I am not so sure about Zeno...Zeno is not a rational person per se in comparison to Soo Won for example.
Zeno was more or less forced by his personal fate to develop said traits...
I am not even sure, if Zeno is loyal just to Yona and her crew or if his loyalty is more directed at the previous King Hiryuu and his will and wishes...
Somehow I assume that the wishes of King Hiryuu and Yona might differ.
Yes though in Hak's case emotions surely get the better of him. It's not easy to look at a person's good deeds in such a situation.

About Zeno, I think he is the wisest in the group (maybe the manga) and whenever we have seen him take decisions they have not been emotional (at least, those in the present moment, not in his past). So that's why I say he is objective and rational. He doesn't hate Soo-Won or thinks bad about him just because he is in Yona's group. Kija and Jae-Ha are prejudiced against Soo-Won - even though they themselves feel he isn't so bad. This is what I mean.

King Hiryuu and Yona seem to be on different paths of life? Though Zeno said he will support her no matter what path she takes.
 

SamuelDean

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About Zeno, I think he is the wisest in the group (maybe the manga) and whenever we have seen him take decisions they have not been emotional (at least, those in the present moment, not in his past).So that's why I say he is objective and rational.
Actually many decisions of this person are more based on feelings/emotions.
In the past:
  • His first decision as a dragon warrior (to become one or not...here Zeno s wish to help out ruled his fear not to be of much help, since he is not a warrior.
  • He stayed behind in order to enable the other dragon warriors to leave the castle. He also wished to care for the people it seems(The concept of altruism is very strong in him.). The very decision was not the wisest, since Zeno doesn t age and the people would notice it one day and while he cared for the people, he meddled too much in the politics of Kouka and maybe allowed the power struggle between the king and the priests. He also stayed too long...Yaksi was an adult, when he still tried to fight the enemies of Kouka. He wished for the connection with the other dragon warriors...that is why he did it (feelings > logic)
In the present:
Zeno had to understand, why he suffered...that s why he started to think more deeply about his task ..So he didn t tend to be rational from the very start like for example Soo Won. It was something he acquired
And even now I somehow doubt if his decisions are really based on just logical reasoning.
Even though he watched Yona and Hak...I somehow guess it was more of a gut decision, than just mere deduction/interference.
He does question Yona s aim and wished to know, why she needed the dragon warriors....
But for a clear plan...I somehow doubt it...since he doesn t really move too much. He is O.K. with the way Yona takes...

He doesn't hate Soo-Won or thinks bad about him just because he is in Yona's group.
Zeno recognized something when he saw Soo Won. So I think that Zeno just knows more than the others but doesn t reveal his knowledge, since it could maybe affect Yona or the others negatively (That s just the kind of guy

Kija and Jae-Ha are prejudiced against Soo-Won - even though they themselves feel he isn't so bad. This is what I mean.
Neither Jeaha nor Shin ha don t seem to feel any animosity towards Soo Won.

King Hiryuu and Yona seem to be on different paths of life? Though Zeno said he will support her no matter what path she takes.
Ik soo told Yona that it was fate, that she met with him, correct?
So King Il s murder was also a part of fate? Since the dragon gods seem to influence fate/the current of events in favor of King Hiryuu s will/wish...I wonder...Was King Il s death...the one event that Yona absolutely didn t wish for...part of King Hiryuu s plan?
 

Mini_kinkin

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Hmm it seems you and me interpret Zeno's character differently :D.

Actually many decisions of this person are more based on feelings/emotions.
In the past:
  • His first decision as a dragon warrior (to become one or not...here Zeno s wish to help out ruled his fear not to be of much help, since he is not a warrior.
  • He stayed behind in order to enable the other dragon warriors to leave the castle. He also wished to care for the people it seems(The concept of altruism is very strong in him.). The very decision was not the wisest, since Zeno doesn t age and the people would notice it one day and while he cared for the people, he meddled too much in the politics of Kouka and maybe allowed the power struggle between the king and the priests. He also stayed too long...Yaksi was an adult, when he still tried to fight the enemies of Kouka. He wished for the connection with the other dragon warriors...that is why he did it (feelings > logic)
Yes I agree in the past he was emotional. But he changed.

In the present:
Zeno had to understand, why he suffered...that s why he started to think more deeply about his task ..So he didn t tend to be rational from the very start like for example Soo Won. It was something he acquired
And even now I somehow doubt if his decisions are really based on just logical reasoning.
Even though he watched Yona and Hak...I somehow guess it was more of a gut decision, than just mere deduction/interference.
He does question Yona s aim and wished to know, why she needed the dragon warriors....
But for a clear plan...I somehow doubt it...since he doesn t really move too much. He is O.K. with the way Yona takes...
He followed Yona around with a clear head, I think it was basically to check if she was a good person and her intentions were good. Once he saw that she is helping the people of Kouka, he made the logical decision to follow her. And he is also the only one in the group who questions her about her future plans. He brings up the possibility of storming the castle. He pretty much throws options at Yona to test her and every time Yona says the throne is not important. I think Zeno knows what he is doing most of the time and is wiser than Soo-Won in many aspects since he has lived for so long.

Though where he differs from Soo-Won in rationality is when it comes to protecting his friends. He does get quite emotional when something happens to the group.

Zeno recognized something when he saw Soo Won. So I think that Zeno just knows more than the others but doesn t reveal his knowledge, since it could maybe affect Yona or the others negatively (That s just the kind of guy
Zeno wants Yona to take her own path and not interfere with knowledge that he has. And in my opinion that is wise too. Unless it's life threatening, he probably will only reveal what he knows in the end.

Neither Jeaha nor Shin ha don t seem to feel any animosity towards Soo Won.
Inside they don't, but in Sei they DID show animosity towards him. It's because they are with Yona so their mind isn't able to follow their heart. Though Zeno has had strange encounters with Soo-Won two or three times which have left even Soo-Won baffled. Zeno is that one guy Soo-Won won't be able to figure out.

Ik soo told Yona that it was fate, that she met with him, correct?
So King Il s murder was also a part of fate? Since the dragon gods seem to influence fate/the current of events in favor of King Hiryuu s will/wish...I wonder...Was King Il s death...the one event that Yona absolutely didn t wish for...part of King Hiryuu s plan?
It's possible. I always felt King Hiryuu didn't want to be on the throne ,and felt being a king was a burden. King Il's death could have been fate's plan.

Update:

Chapter 150

It seems that Soo-Won is still not willing to take the dragons seriously or chase after Yona? His emotions are getting the best of him after all...Though Keishuk is not going to let this slide so this is interesting.
 
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shinobi

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Finally the chapter is out!! that was slow.

this arc is over now, but I have to say I loved Kouren's character, I hope she gets involved in the story in future chapters, Xing will probably be out of the picture for a while now, but one can hope never the less.

I thinks that Keishuk is being more logical than Soo-won in this matter, he was glad that the situation was settled peacefully without blood from Kouka's side, but he recognizes the danger that is surrounding his king, while Soo-won is stupidly still denying the obvious, Keishuk at least put the party under surveillance to be aware of their future actions and be prepared. I'm not sure what's wrong with Soo-won's judgment nowadays, after knowing that Yona influenced the fire tribe, and basically challenged his authority, this should be an eye opener for him regarding the current situation, still his attitude in ignoring her and her group remains unchanged, it's true things worked well for all but the fact that she can stand in the way and change his plans stands still. I'm not suggesting he should order their death or anything, but pretending that nothing happened isn't going to make things better for him in the events to come. Isn't it about time he tries to find out what Yona is trying to achieve and see for himself if what they want is the same, if they can reach some agreement, or if what they want is totally different which means there will be a bloody conflict, or as the good politician that he's supposed to be he can use her to his advantage or something, seeing that her influence is not to be ignored. Plus this dead look he wears every time he sees Yona and Hak is getting old by now.

about when Soo-won was recalling king Ill's words, ill specifically mentioned that Yona is the reincarnation of King Hiryuu, I'm not sure if this means that the theory about Soowon not being Half Hiryuu ( the King Hiryuu half) is confirmed.
 

SamuelDean

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Finally the chapter is out!! that was slow.

this arc is over now, but I have to say I loved Kouren's character, I hope she gets involved in the story in future chapters, Xing will probably be out of the picture for a while now, but one can hope never the less.

I thinks that Keishuk is being more logical than Soo-won in this matter, he was glad that the situation was settled peacefully without blood from Kouka's side, but he recognizes the danger that is surrounding his king, while Soo-won is stupidly still denying the obvious, Keishuk at least put the party under surveillance to be aware of their future actions and be prepared. I'm not sure what's wrong with Soo-won's judgment nowadays, after knowing that Yona influenced the fire tribe, and basically challenged his authority, this should be an eye opener for him regarding the current situation, still his attitude in ignoring her and her group remains unchanged, it's true things worked well for all but the fact that she can stand in the way and change his plans stands still. I'm not suggesting he should order their death or anything, but pretending that nothing happened isn't going to make things better for him in the events to come. Isn't it about time he tries to find out what Yona is trying to achieve and see for himself if what they want is the same, if they can reach some agreement, or if what they want is totally different which means there will be a bloody conflict, or as the good politician that he's supposed to be he can use her to his advantage or something, seeing that her influence is not to be ignored. Plus this dead look he wears every time he sees Yona and Hak is getting old by now.

about when Soo-won was recalling king Ill's words, ill specifically mentioned that Yona is the reincarnation of King Hiryuu, I'm not sure if this means that the theory about Soowon not being Half Hiryuu ( the King Hiryuu half) is confirmed.
Not ignoring her would actually mean persecuting her and the Dragon Warriors.
At least I think that Keishuk and other parts of the Soo Won fraction would most likely be against the option of Yona getting back at the palace.

The following is just my impression...but I think that Soo Won is currently running away from the confrontation...

Hmm it seems you and me interpret Zeno's character differently :D.
Yes I agree in the past he was emotional. But he changed.
I don t think that a person who is prone to make decisions based on their feelings is able to suddenly change, since the last instance they use for making the decision are still their emotions.So I must say..I don t think that there is a person who always is 100 % rational...there is just a tendency for a person to be more rational or to trust one s feelings and institution more. And I perceive Zeno as the intuitive type.


He followed Yona around with a clear head, I think it was basically to check if she was a good person and her intentions were good. Once he saw that she is helping the people of Kouka, he made the logical decision to follow her.

I think no dragon warrior followed Yona because it is logical to follow a 16 year old girl around. Zeno wished to be reunited with the dragon warriors.Surely he wanted to know what kind of person Yona is...I considers the dragon warriors his children. There are very important to him, but at the same time he is overjoyed to be able to be with them once again.

And he is also the only one in the group who questions her about her future plans. He brings up the possibility of storming the castle. He pretty much throws options at Yona to test her and every time Yona says the throne is not important.
It was one time at the beginning that he questioned her, since I wished for Yona to have actually an aim. Since she still didn t thought too much about it. And I am not sure if it was just for Yona s sake. Zeno asks, why she would need the dragon warriors...Since he considers them his family...I think...he wishes to protect them.

I think Zeno knows what he is doing most of the time and is wiser than Soo-Won in many aspects since he has lived for so long.
I don t think that Zeno has a kind of master plan or that he is actually leading the group. The things he keeps to himself are often topics that would rather aggravate the situation.Wiser...Zeno knows a lot it seems. He actually learned much about the situation. But is he wise? I would say...that the outcome of his decisions will show it.

Though where he differs from Soo-Won in rationality is when it comes to protecting his friends. He does get quite emotional when something happens to the group.
No. Soo Won was prone to make rational decisions and plan his moves since he was a child.
I don t think, that Soo Won is 100 % rational, bu he thinks more clearly about the advantages or disadvantages of a decision.

Zeno wants Yona to take her own path and not interfere with knowledge that he has. And in my opinion that is wise too. Unless it's life threatening, he probably will only reveal what he knows in the end.
I agree that Zeno wishes for Yona to chose her own way of life...but with keeping secrets...I don t know. I say you also influence a situation if you keep secrets, because you wish to protect people. If they had the information, they could decide for themselves. With Zeno not revealing the information he has, he actually is in control of the situation. Even though I don t think it is 100 % calculation in Zeno s case. He tends to be especially protective towards people.


Inside they don't, but in Sei they DID show animosity towards him. It's because they are with Yona so their mind isn't able to follow their heart.
I think you refer to the scene where Judo wishes to kill Hak. Surely they look rather angry, since they wish to protect him. But I cannot see that as a sign of having negative emotions/feelings towards Soo Won. Jeaha protected Soo Won involuntarily in the water tribe arc for example. If he really harboured much negative feelings towards Soo Won, he would have rather helped Hak or taken Hak s place in punching Soo Won. As far as Soo Won doesn t touch any of their group, except for Kija, the dragon warriors don t feel much hate towards Soo Won.

Though Zeno has had strange encounters with Soo-Won two or three times which have left even Soo-Won baffled. Zeno is that one guy Soo-Won won't be able to figure out.

Zeno knows more than most of the people present, but that doesn t make him a mastermind.
Actually. Soo Won is one of the reasons, why I think, that Zeno is more the intuitive type. Soo Won can lie as beatifully as one might think. A person cannot be sure, if Soo Won really does tell the truth or not, but I think that Zeno felt that he could trust for once his words.
It was more intuition than anything else.
 
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@Aylinn

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Finally the chapter is out!! that was slow.

this arc is over now, but I have to say I loved Kouren's character, I hope she gets involved in the story in future chapters, Xing will probably be out of the picture for a while now, but one can hope never the less.

I thinks that Keishuk is being more logical than Soo-won in this matter, he was glad that the situation was settled peacefully without blood from Kouka's side, but he recognizes the danger that is surrounding his king, while Soo-won is stupidly still denying the obvious, Keishuk at least put the party under surveillance to be aware of their future actions and be prepared. I'm not sure what's wrong with Soo-won's judgment nowadays, after knowing that Yona influenced the fire tribe, and basically challenged his authority, this should be an eye opener for him regarding the current situation, still his attitude in ignoring her and her group remains unchanged, it's true things worked well for all but the fact that she can stand in the way and change his plans stands still. I'm not suggesting he should order their death or anything, but pretending that nothing happened isn't going to make things better for him in the events to come. Isn't it about time he tries to find out what Yona is trying to achieve and see for himself if what they want is the same, if they can reach some agreement, or if what they want is totally different which means there will be a bloody conflict, or as the good politician that he's supposed to be he can use her to his advantage or something, seeing that her influence is not to be ignored. Plus this dead look he wears every time he sees Yona and Hak is getting old by now.

about when Soo-won was recalling king Ill's words, ill specifically mentioned that Yona is the reincarnation of King Hiryuu, I'm not sure if this means that the theory about Soowon not being Half Hiryuu ( the King Hiryuu half) is confirmed.
I think that unfortunately it fits into how things have been handled so far to make Yona face as little consequences of her actions as possible.

This chapter we have Tao admitting that Yona is her friend to protect Yona, which was a dumb move*, but never mind. This story has more serious problems than this.

* I mean Tao does not know Su-won and could not know if his next move would not be sending assassins to make sure that the problem of Yona disappears sooner rather than later. Not to mention that this open support of Yona could have given him a second thought when it comes to having any agreement with Tao and her sister. For all Tao knows Su-won might have thought if it would not be better to crush his enemies when they are at their weakest. Sure, we know that Su-won does not want to hurt Yona, but Tao doesn’t know it.

Also, I am afraid that clashing with Yona may mean dumbing down to make it possible for Yona to win. Just look at Gobi, her last ‘challenge’, he was a total fool and he was so foolish that he turned out to be more useful to Yona than any of her allies. I think we may even say that Gobi was even more useful than Yona herself, since his actions made Kouren stop thinking about having a revenge on Su-won and his foolish speech about Gods allowed Su-won to score some points in Kouren’s eyes.

I think we are probably going to see more of ‘Yona’s greatness’ and more characters singing praises about her courage, badassery, etc. At least this seems to be the direction of this manga.
 

Mini_kinkin

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Not ignoring her would actually mean persecuting her and the Dragon Warriors.
At least I think that Keishuk and other parts of the Soo Won fraction would most likely be against the option of Yona getting back at the palace.

The following is just my impression...but I think that Soo Won is currently running away from the confrontation...
I think Soo-Won doesn't want to confront Yona and put her in trouble because of his attachement towards her and Hak. Keishuk realizes that.

I don t think that a person who is prone to make decisions based on their feelings is able to suddenly change, since the last instance they use for making the decision are still their emotions.So I must say..I don t think that there is a person who always is 100 % rational...there is just a tendency for a person to be more rational or to trust one s feelings and institution more. And I perceive Zeno as the intuitive type.
We aren't talking about any person here, we are talking about Zeno who lived a 1000 years or more and therefore his outlook on life changed. I find him more rational/logical than the others and his intuition comes from years of experience being alive.

I think no dragon warrior followed Yona because it is logical to follow a 16 year old girl around. Zeno wished to be reunited with the dragon warriors.Surely he wanted to know what kind of person Yona is...I considers the dragon warriors his children. There are very important to him, but at the same time he is overjoyed to be able to be with them once again.
If this was the case he should have immidietely joined Yona but he observed her and made a decision based on what he saw.

It was one time at the beginning that he questioned her, since I wished for Yona to have actually an aim. Since she still didn t thought too much about it. And I am not sure if it was just for Yona s sake. Zeno asks, why she would need the dragon warriors...Since he considers them his family...I think...he wishes to protect them.
Zeno loves his family/group but he also curious to know how everything will turn out. He knows Yona is different from Hiryuu so he seems to be watching everything from above.

I don t think that Zeno has a kind of master plan or that he is actually leading the group. The things he keeps to himself are often topics that would rather aggravate the situation.Wiser...Zeno knows a lot it seems. He actually learned much about the situation. But is he wise? I would say...that the outcome of his decisions will show it.
No neither do i think Zeno is leading the group or has a plan. He is just letting things take its course without guiding Yona too much and I think this is a good thing, because he doesn't want his decisions to influence Yona. Maybe he would help Yona if she asked for help. Again quite a logical thing to do.

No. Soo Won was prone to make rational decisions and plan his moves since he was a child.
I don t think, that Soo Won is 100 % rational, bu he thinks more clearly about the advantages or disadvantages of a decision.
Yes I am agreeing, I am saying Zeno is the one who is more emotional when it comes to his group and friends. But with everything else he seems rational, balanced and for the most part unfazed by the situation.

I agree that Zeno wishes for Yona to chose her own way of life...but with keeping secrets...I don t know. I say you also influence a situation if you keep secrets, because you wish to protect people. If they had the information, they could decide for themselves. With Zeno not revealing the information he has, he actually is in control of the situation. Even though I don t think it is 100 % calculation in Zeno s case. He tends to be especially protective towards people.
I think he is doing the right thing by not revealing much, because as I said above, he wants Yona to take her own decisions and see where this takes them.

I think you refer to the scene where Judo wishes to kill Hak. Surely they look rather angry, since they wish to protect him. But I cannot see that as a sign of having negative emotions/feelings towards Soo Won. Jeaha protected Soo Won involuntarily in the water tribe arc for example. If he really harboured much negative feelings towards Soo Won, he would have rather helped Hak or taken Hak s place in punching Soo Won. As far as Soo Won doesn t touch any of their group, except for Kija, the dragon warriors don t feel much hate towards Soo Won.
This does not mean they like Soo-Won, they still feel he is Yona's enemy. Whereas Zeno is just curious to know what Soo-Won thinks and feels.

Zeno knows more than most of the people present, but that doesn t make him a mastermind.
Actually. Soo Won is one of the reasons, why I think, that Zeno is more the intuitive type. Soo Won can lie as beatifully as one might think. A person cannot be sure, if Soo Won really does tell the truth or not, but I think that Zeno felt that he could trust for once his words.
It was more intuition than anything else.
It's not only intuition, Zeno has made a logical decision based on Soo-Won's actions and words so far, that Soo-Won isn't a bad person or king. He asked Soo-Won questions to test him...like if he desired the dragon's powers.

Zeno reminds me of that all-knowing character...like Dumbledore perhaps :P? He only reveals stuff when it is required and he seems to be watching over everyone. He has lived so many years by now that surely he has realized sometimes life is nothing but a game, this whole saga with Soo-Won and Yona are just a few more years added to history. But surely he wants Kouka to benefit at the end of it.

In anycase this just my interpretation of Zeno, you are free to have your own :D
 
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Y u m a

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So about the last chapter...
+ The conference was off-screened, can't say I mind.
+ The arc is finally over. FINALLY!! Though I will miss Kouren.
+ Keishuk keeping an eye on Yona.. Now I am hoping for two things; first, that he poses real threat to her, and second, that he does not get painted a jerk just because he is standing against her and Hak. Because let's be honest, he is the only one of Suwon's group who is thinking clearly.
- Tao's speech in the beginning. For some reason I found it annoying. Tired of princesses and daughters of tribe leaders telling everybody how great Yona is.
- The last scene… I hope this does not turn into some jealousy or misunderstanding. Can't we have romance progressing in a shoujo without stupid clichés?
 

Mini_kinkin

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So about the last chapter...
+ The conference was off-screened, can't say I mind.
+ The arc is finally over. FINALLY!! Though I will miss Kouren.
+ Keishuk keeping an eye on Yona.. Now I am hoping for two things; first, that he poses real threat to her, and second, that he does not get painted a jerk just because he is standing against her and Hak. Because let's be honest, he is the only one of Suwon's group who is thinking clearly.
- Tao's speech in the beginning. For some reason I found it annoying. Tired of princesses and daughters of tribe leaders telling everybody how great Yona is.
- The last scene… I hope this does not turn into some jealousy or misunderstanding. Can't we have romance progressing in a shoujo without stupid clichés?
Sadly Keishuk is already being hated on lol. I find him a very interesting character, it is clear he really cares for Soo-Won. Could the step-brother theory be true after all?

About Cliches...why can't we fangirls have our moment without people raining or our parade all the time *sigh*. Let us have our moment. :pleased Shoujo romance is full of cliches and we hardly see any romance moments in AnY so there is really nothing wrong with this if it does turn out to be a jealous moment. Big deaaal. I hope they just confess, that's all I want at this point, and if jelousy is the catalyst then so be it.

I am really going to enjoy the next chapter :hearts
 

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It's a shame that Kouren's group was the one I felt more for in this arc. I guess it helps that 2 significant deaths occurred within her group, which increases the stakes compared to the others. I didn't get what I wanted from a meeting between the 3 main characters, unlike in Sei arc where they were the highlight.

All things considered, the conference was okay. The silver lining is that Kye-Sook can hopefully change the status quo between Soo-Won and Yona. It feels too on-the-fence atm and I'd prefer a stronger position from Soo-Won, and I believe Kye-Soon can force a call to be made by the King.

Gobi ran off somewhere, so unfortunately(?) we'll see him again. May not be prominent, though.

This arc was poor by Yona standards (this is a pretty good manga imho). Favourite characters for the arc were Algira and Kouren on Xing's side, and probably Tae-Woo on Kouka's side.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
- The last scene… I hope this does not turn into some jealousy or misunderstanding. Can't we have romance progressing in a shoujo without stupid clichés?
I find Yona to be quite immature when it comes to these matters, so while cliche, it would be okay if she got 'jealous'.

That said, I think she has legit concern for Hak's wounds, and will be pleased/relieved to see him get treatment rather than be worked up by Soo-Won. When she tells Hak this, I bet he'll tease her by saying "so you were okay with the girl touching me?", so then a cheesy, but still cute/adorable shipping scene can ensue.
 
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Y u m a

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Sadly Keishuk is already being hated on lol. I find him a very interesting character, it is clear he really cares for Soo-Won. Could the step-brother theory be true after all?

About Cliches...why can't we fangirls have our moment without people raining or our parade all the time *sigh*. Let us have our moment. :pleased Shoujo romance is full of cliches and we hardly see any romance moments in AnY so there is really nothing wrong with this if it does turn out to be a jealous moment. Big deaaal. I hope they just confess, that's all I want at this point, and if jelousy is the catalyst then so be it.

I am really going to enjoy the next chapter :hearts
Lol I guess it is because people expect more of AnY since it is not your typical shoujo. Although the romance in it is kinda typical :-_-
Don't get me wrong, I am all for romantic moments and a confession. But they had already agreed to have a talk. A catalyst here is unnecessary.

It's a shame that Kouen's group was the one I felt more for in this arc. I guess it helps that 2 significant deaths occurred within her group, which increases the stakes compared to the others. I didn't get what I wanted from a meeting between the 3 main characters, unlike in Sei arc where they were the highlight.

All things considered, the conference was okay. The silver lining is that Kye-Sook can hopefully change the status quo between Soo-Won and Yona. It feels too on-the-fence atm and I'd prefer a stronger position from Soo-Won, and I believe Kye-Soon can force a call to be made by the King.

Gobi ran off somewhere, so unfortunately(?) we'll see him again. May not be prominent, though.

This arc was poor by Yona standards (this is a pretty good manga imho). Favourite characters for the arc were Algira and Kouen on Xing's side, and probably Tae-Woo on Kouka's side.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---


I find Yona to be quite immature when it comes to these matters, so while cliche, it would be okay if she got 'jealous'.

That said, I think she has legit concern for Hak's wounds, and will be pleased/relieved to see him get treatment rather than be worked up by Soo-Won. When she tells Hak this, I bet he'll tease her by saying "so you were okay with the girl touching me?", so then a cheesy, but still cute/adorable shipping scene can ensue.
@ bolded part: you are right, that is the most likely scenario. I actually wouldn't mind if it turned out like this.
 

SamuelDean

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I think Soo-Won doesn't want to confront Yona and put her in trouble because of his attachement towards her and Hak. Keishuk realizes that.

I don t think that Keishuk is aware what kind of deep connection the three people had before...I cannot imagine Soo Won talking to Keishuk about such private details.


We aren't talking about any person here, we are talking about Zeno who lived a 1000 years or more and therefore his outlook on life changed. I find him more rational/logical than the others and his intuition comes from years of experience being alive.
Ha. My impression is that it is the other way around...Zeno was a more intuitive person from the start..meaning that he decided based on the feelings he had. The rational thought process is him adapting to the situation.


If this was the case he should have immidietely joined Yona but he observed her and made a decision based on what he saw.
So you think that Yona is an "all-right person" is a logical reason for Zeno to follow Yona? And him following Yona had nothing to do with how much he missed being part of the team?


Zeno loves his family/group but he also curious to know how everything will turn out. He knows Yona is different from Hiryuu so he seems to be watching everything from above.
Zeno engages directly in the fight and I don t think he has such a high opinion of himself, that he thinks that he control the situation. If he keeps secrets, than merely because he thinks that the people would have a negative reaction to it, if it was revealed too soon.


No neither do i think Zeno is leading the group or has a plan. He is just letting things take its course without guiding Yona too much and I think this is a good thing, because he doesn't want his decisions to influence Yona. Maybe he would help Yona if she asked for help. Again quite a logical thing to do.
If he has no plan...how rational is he? Being rational means also that you must know which steps lead to which result. But as far as I can see...Zeno is more reacting to the current situation (his feelings and worries incite this behaviour of his, than having a clear-thought out step-to step plan.
Sure...some of his decisions are more rational than the others, but his feelings take a greater impact on the decision making process, that it would be the case, if he really was such a rational person.


I think he is doing the right thing by not revealing much, because as I said above, he wants Yona to take her own decisions and see where this takes them.
But he is hindering her by making those decisions, since he doesn t let Yona decide how she would react to those informations. In fact he keeps those secrets, because he thinks it is for the better...that is him caring about Yona and the others in a way.
The moment he will (hopefully) tell them about those informations, then and just then...Yona is free to decide. You cannot chose a way, if you don t know that the way exists.


This does not mean they like Soo-Won, they still feel he is Yona's enemy. Whereas Zeno is just curious to know what Soo-Won thinks and feels.
That doesn t mean that they dislike him either. They didn t show much animosity. Shin ha even thinks that he is similar to Yona, that he has a strong but quiet air about him. Jeaha thought that he could trust him....
That doesn t imply dislike.


It's not only intuition, Zeno has made a logical decision based on Soo-Won's actions and words so far, that Soo-Won isn't a bad person or king. He asked Soo-Won questions to test him...like if he desired the dragon's powers.
It is highly unlogical. Soo Won used Lily as an excuse to take over Sei and Zeno was aware of it, meaning he caught him by lieing. Soo Won killed King Il and nearly Yona too....
Against Soo Won does speak as much as for this person.
So the deciding factor is much likely Zeno s intuition. After all Zeno doesn t know Soo Won well enough that he could really determine his character that well. Even Yona and Hak who knew him for years, weren t able to clearly say, what is true and what was fake.

Zeno reminds me of that all-knowing character...like Dumbledore perhaps
Dumbledore would be Soo Won. Dumbledore highly manipulated Harry into killing Voldemort. That s why he resembles more...at least that is my impression Soo Won than Zeno.

:P? He only reveals stuff when it is required and he seems to be watching over everyone. He has lived so many years by now that surely he has realized sometimes life is nothing but a game, this whole saga with Soo-Won and Yona are just a few more years added to history. But surely he wants Kouka to benefit at the end of it.
Zeno is not that cold-hearted that he would gamble with the life of others. He tries to watch over people, but him not revealing certain things or keeping secrets didn t work out well in every situation...like for example with Yakshi.

In anycase this just my interpretation of Zeno, you are free to have your own:D
Likewise. It is fun to talk about it every once in a while.
 

Mini_kinkin

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Ha. My impression is that it is the other way around...Zeno was a more intuitive person from the start..meaning that he decided based on the feelings he had. The rational thought process is him adapting to the situation.

So you think that Yona is an "all-right person" is a logical reason for Zeno to follow Yona? And him following Yona had nothing to do with how much he missed being part of the team?
It's not about "all-right" person - it's more about "what is she willing to do for the country" and observed her for a while. Out of all the dragons only he assessed this. So I think it's logical. If he missed being part of the team so much, he would not have assessed her and would have joint her in the beginning.

Zeno engages directly in the fight and I don t think he has such a high opinion of himself, that he thinks that he control the situation. If he keeps secrets, than merely because he thinks that the people would have a negative reaction to it, if it was revealed too soon.

If he has no plan...how rational is he? Being rational means also that you must know which steps lead to which result. But as far as I can see...Zeno is more reacting to the current situation (his feelings and worries incite this behaviour of his, than having a clear-thought out step-to step plan.
Sure...some of his decisions are more rational than the others, but his feelings take a greater impact on the decision making process, that it would be the case, if he really was such a rational person.
I don't know about this. Zeno doesn't seem like an emotional person to me at all. He seems more on the unfazed and logical side. Let's agree to disagree here.

But he is hindering her by making those decisions, since he doesn t let Yona decide how she would react to those informations. In fact he keeps those secrets, because he thinks it is for the better...that is him caring about Yona and the others in a way.
The moment he will (hopefully) tell them about those informations, then and just then...Yona is free to decide. You cannot chose a way, if you don t know that the way exists.
This is why he is not telling Yona the information he knows, because he does not want his information to influence her decisions. He wants Yona to follow her own path. I do agree he cares for Yona and Co, but I don't think that's why he is keeping info from her.

Hmm, I think you are looking at Soo-Won's spectrum of rationality and comparing it with Zeno. Soo-Won barely shows/has emotions but that doesn't mean Zeno, who cares for others a lot more, is not rational too. He probably has the best balance of logic and emotions in the manga.

That doesn t mean that they dislike him either. They didn t show much animosity. Shin ha even thinks that he is similar to Yona, that he has a strong but quiet air about him. Jeaha thought that he could trust him....
That doesn t imply dislike.
I think if you read above I never said they disliked him. Yes, in their heart they think he is a good person - but on the outside and in their mind they feel he is Yona's enemy. This is what I think.

It is highly unlogical. Soo Won used Lily as an excuse to take over Sei and Zeno was aware of it, meaning he caught him by lieing. Soo Won killed King Il and nearly Yona too....
Against Soo Won does speak as much as for this person.
So the deciding factor is much likely Zeno s intuition. After all Zeno doesn t know Soo Won well enough that he could really determine his character that well. Even Yona and Hak who knew him for years, weren t able to clearly say, what is true and what was fake.
It is logical because Soo-Won has seen royalty change so many times in thousands of years, that he must have a good idea what Soo-Won is upto. It's not intuition but experience.

For Zeno, he has seen many kings come and go....and through rational reasoning and understanding he has seen that Soo-Won is better for the country than Il. So basically putting his emotions aside for Yona and crew we can see that he is actually quite fond of Soo-Won.

Dumbledore would be Soo Won. Dumbledore highly manipulated Harry into killing Voldemort. That s why he resembles more...at least that is my impression Soo Won than Zeno.
Really? I would never think of Dumbledore as Soo-Won haha. For me Soo-Won is more like Snape. Interesting perspective though.

Zeno is not that cold-hearted that he would gamble with the life of others. He tries to watch over people, but him not revealing certain things or keeping secrets didn t work out well in every situation...like for example with Yakshi.
Yes but perhaps the info isn't always life threatening but could really alter the path Yona wants to take and he doesn't want to give her that info. For example, what if he has some info about Soo-Won's family that would instigate Yona to take revenge for her dad? Something along those lines. Just an example.

Likewise. It is fun to talk about it every once in a while.
Yups
 

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It's not about "all-right" person - it's more about "what is she willing to do for the country" and observed her for a while. Out of all the dragons only he assessed this. So I think it's logical. If he missed being part of the team so much, he would not have assessed her and would have joint her in the beginning.
If it is clearly demonstrated in the previous pic , that he really wished for it and he thanks the gods, that he is able to meet them...Then most likely it is not cool calculation on his part.

I don't know about this. Zeno doesn't seem like an emotional person to me at all. He seems more on the unfazed and logical side. Let's agree to disagree here.
What? For real? Showing that he likes the dragon warriors...Jumping for joy, because he met them
Laughing and dancing...

This is why he is not telling Yona the information he knows, because he does not want his information to influence her decisions. He wants Yona to follow her own path. I do agree he cares for Yona and Co, but I don't think that's why he is keeping info from her.
Yona can even more follow her own part, if she is aware of certain information. If you don t have this information, you cannot react to it.
Why should he keep the information from her, if not to protect them? As far as I see him, Zeno is not cold-blooded enough to just keep secrets, because it is so funny.

Hmm, I think you are looking at Soo-Won's spectrum of rationality and comparing it with Zeno. Soo-Won barely shows/has emotions but that doesn't mean Zeno, who cares for others a lot more, is not rational too. He probably has the best balance of logic and emotions in the manga.
In Soo Won s case, there is a clear difference between showing emotions and having them. Soo Won has feelings, even though he doesn t express them. The murder of King Il and Soo Won wishing to kill him with his own hands....pretty risky for a level-headed person. The only reason I can imagine is, that Soo Won wished to kill King Il, like his father was killed.
His whole performance in the last chapters speaks a certain language...It would be far safer to get rid of Yona, but he doesn t.
Expressing your emotions and actually having them are to different kind of shoes.
About Zeno...he can be rational, but his him making decisions is not so much based on logic or rationality like in Soo Won s case.


I think if you read above I never said they disliked him. Yes, in their heart they think he is a good person - but on the outside and in their mind they feel he is Yona's enemy. This is what I think.
I think the dragon warriors (except Kija) are not so sure about Soo Won. They would fight him, (if they can-I am not sure if that "thing" that prevented Kija from moving would also be activated in the other dragon warriors.), if he would be a danger for Yona. But just then. I was talking about feelings and not perception.


It is logical because Soo-Won has seen royalty change so many times in thousands of years, that he must have a good idea what Soo-Won is upto. It's not intuition but experience.For Zeno, he has seen many kings come and go....and through rational reasoning and understanding he has seen that Soo-Won is better for the country than Il. So basically putting his emotions aside for Yona and crew we can see that he is actually quite fond of Soo-Won.
Since every person is an individual and every person s decision can be quite different. I think you could know a thousand kings and still be surprised about the outcome.
Based on your logic...Zeno must be able to foresee every reaction from every human being, but that is not the case.
And I repeat. Zeno has basically next to no knowledge of Soo Won s character...If he saw the events during King Il s murder, then he would have just more reasons to distrust Soo Won. So even if Soo Won should be the other half of Hiryuu or a reincarnation of another god. He nearly killed Yona....Conclusion: Zeno had more reasons to distrust Soo Won, but he obviously doesn t. So Zeno s intuition must have told him, that he could trust him.


Yes but perhaps the info isn't always life threatening but could really alter the path Yona wants to take and he doesn't want to give her that info. For example, what if he has some info about Soo-Won's family that would instigate Yona to take revenge for her dad? Something along those lines. Just an example.
But that would be Yona s decision. Her decision and just hers, if she wants to alter the already chosen path, or if she keeps the direction.
I don t think that any information could exist that could make Yona hate Soo Won more...She doubts already that the story about her father murdering Yu hon is true...

The only case I can imagine would be, if Soo Won establishes a tyranny after all...But Zeno cannot look inside Soo Won s head.
 

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After read the chapter 150, I must say all characters play their roles quite well.
- Yona sweet girl helped out to make the negotiation happened. Her big success in this arc is to put down her personal feeling and risk herself to reach Suwon without Hak and dragons' help. Still I don't think she really succeeded Suwon to become a ruler, because the Gobi's action was more to convenience Yona plot. It would be much harder for Yona to persuade Kouren for peace negotiation because Kouren didn't show any interest in it since the beginning at all. Kouren relentlessly insisted to take Kouka down no matter what type Suwon really is.

- Tao, I have to give her big credit as she is the one who firstly initiated the peace talk idea. I pretty much think it's Yona's luck to meet Tao. Otherwise, I wonder how Yona would deal when she would see Kouren’s army which was ready to move, and when she realized Kouren's hatred towards Kouka .

- Suwon, as well as I think Yona is lucky, but Yona's luck and Gobi plot benefit Suwon well (indirectly). He could defeat another nation with no bloodshed again. I also found it's interesting to see Gobi ran away after Suwon refused his interest. Great to Suwon beat Gobi in a blink of an eye but it seems to be too easy to end the arc after 3 chapters were dragged with Gobi-Kouren talk battle. Anyway, Suwon didn't give a shit about gods and denied Gobi's offer. This quite scores Kouren points as well. Now I'm not sure who is luckier between Suwon and Yona.... :gwah

To sum up in my view, the peace talk accomplished by all party helps.
Yona delivered the message to Suwon.
Suwon opened mind and gave Xing a chance to negotiate.
Lily temporary stopped the Suwon-Yona conflict (eh, her order was like empress's).... watch out girl, Keishuk's still there.
Dragons and Hak support Yona's and protect her as usual.
Kouren, Tao accepted the vassal state agreement.
.....
and yes...big applause to Gobi's existence (lucky pot) to make everyone see he's the true villain, the only one enemy in this arc. Gobi really brought unity to Xing and Kouka bwahahahaha.

Looking forward to the next chapter. I am curious if Yona will stay with Lily or leave or the plot will focus on her romance.........:cheez
One big thing I dislike here is to see characters praise how great Yona is repeatedly in all single arc. It seems to be forceful plot leading to brainwashing.
I'd rather want to see Yona praises other characters more. This would mean she respect people and shows more king's love in her trait in order to surpass Suwon. (I remember Suwon did give people credit once).
 

Mini_kinkin

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Looking forward to the next chapter. I am curious if Yona will stay with Lily or leave or the plot will focus on her romance.........:cheez
One big thing I dislike here is to see characters praise how great Yona is repeatedly in all single arc. It seems to be forceful plot leading to brainwashing.
I'd rather want to see Yona praises other characters more. This would mean she respect people and shows more king's love in her trait in order to surpass Suwon. (I remember Suwon did give people credit once).
Yona does praise people a lot actually. She praises the dragons all the time, and she also praised Tae-Jun and Lily. And she praises mommy Yoon too. She also isn't the type of person who feels like taking credit for all accomplishments, she is just that the face of the group. I don't know why she needs to surpass Soo-Won as a ruler - because she doesn't want to be one anyway. According to me she is already a better person, and emotionally stronger and more empathetic than Soo-Won. After all, Soo-Won wasn't able to get rid of his feelings of revenge, whereas Yona doesn't even think about revenge anymore, and only looks ahead. As someone who likes Yona, I think that's enough for me. Someone like Yona who cares for all of humanity is not suited as a Queen of one country and doesn't need to be one.

Interesting analysis of the arc though, all characters benefitted from this arc.

I already explained this.

Being rational doesn't mean you don't care for your friends at all. You can be logical, but still care for your friends. Soo-Won is just another extreme level of rationality and though he does care for his friends, he initially never hesitated to throw them under the bus. Though we can see that he cares a lot more now.

Anyway let's end the discussion here, it's all about point of view after all.
 
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