Discussion Yonkou Territory

[Core D. Roy]

So... why is BM's territory the only one described as a nation so far?

Kaidou seems to just be a conqueror who can't hold an actual nation much less build his own, unless we're about to have a huge bomb dropped on us when the narrative reaches Wano. So far he's looking like the cookie-cutter usurper-pirate-waiting-to-be-dropped-by-Luffy we've all come to expect from One-Piece but who knows.

WB seemed to only care about certain territories (as opposed to forming a nation, but was more interested in making his family individual-based instead of self-based (the thematic opposite to BM in a lot of ways).

I can't imagine Shanks actually holding territory, it seems like the Red-Hair Pirates are just a tight-knit, rogue storm moving through the oceans who just want to party and wreck shit up. Like WB there may be certain territories under his protection (judging from the cover stories) but no sign of an actual nation yet.

The definition of yonkou has acquisition of territories as a top element. It's weird BM has the only territory described as a nation. Honestly, I wouldn't mind living there. Lifespan as tax for citizenship in a literal and figurative melting pot of culture and race and nationality and food? And everything is edible? I can see Luffy leaving Totland intact in some capacity in the end- much like his (probably forlorn) hopes for Fishman Island. Maybe the Fishmen will be moved to Totland? It seems like a place he'd want to frequently visit even after BM is taken down after Kaidou.

 

[kcd]

Totto land is where she set up base, so I'm not surprised she turned the smaller nations within into one big country, IIRC, she also has other territories that are not in totto land, protecting them with her flag much like other yonkous do. The only reason I think she set up that country was because, other than becoming the pirate king, her other goal in life is to have a country where all races exists, that's why, in a way, other yonkous, in the traditional sense, don't turn their territories into one big country with their own newspaper, for example, we've never heard of Kaido's papers, and the land "wano" still retained it's identity as wano kingdom.


But sure, they all have countries, Kaido is in wano, that's one of his territories, and it's a country, so, he probably has more than one country for a territory but doesn't run it the way bigmom does, in addition, I'm not sure shanks or BB cares about things like pronouncing a few clustered territories a country.

On luffy to leave totto land intact and frequently visit:

I think ones bigmom is brought down, nothing will remain the same, even those edible chocolate, Sweets and Candies they have in excess will cease to exist because they won't be taxing other nations, or destroying nations that don't pay their candy tax on time, I don't even see them living in chocolate homes anymore let alone having a section of the sea made of juice, of course the fishmen can make totto land their permanent home but without those things (candy and all), luffy may not be motivated to visit frequently, unless maybe they set up a meat island there, lol.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

All Yonko Territory are like that of Big Mom's. We're told that all Yonko oversee a large portion of the new world. Don't think or see why it'd be any different from Big Mom's.

 

[kcd]

All Yonko Territory are like that of Big Mom's. We're told that all Yonko oversee a large portion of the new world. Don't think or see why it'd be any different from Big Mom's.

Well, for starters, bigmom has the dream of building a country that is home to all races, kinda like her very own fairy world.
Other yonkous, well, with current knowledge don't have that dream, they just have large territories they protect whereas bigmom is building hers to her taste, i don't see how hers (with unique newspapers) will be the same as others.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Well, for starters, bigmom has the dream of building a country that is home to all races, kinda like her very own fairy world.
Other yonkous, well, with current knowledge don't have that dream, they just have large territories they protect whereas bigmom is building hers to her taste, i don't see how hers (with unique newspapers) will be the same as others.

Doesn't matter. All Yonkou govern a portion of the New World. Big Mom just has a greater diversity of people. That's the only difference. Regardless of Big Mom's dream, it's still fundamentally the same thing, a territory she governs as every other.

North Korean president regardless of his ideology and the manner in which he rules functions similarly as the American president; fundamentally people who govern a country, how and why is not really changing anything fundamentally.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Doesn't matter. All Yonkou govern a portion of the New World. Big Mom just has a greater diversity of people. That's the only difference. Regardless of Big Mom's dream, it's still fundamentally the same thing, a territory she governs as every other.

North Korean president regardless of his ideology and the manner in which he rules functions similarly as the American president; fundamentally people who govern a country, how and why is not really changing anything fundamentally.

Except geography is totally different in One-Piece. IRL we base our nations off of arbitrary lines drawn across land. In OP nations are either isolated islands, or groups of islands ruled contiguously from one part of the sea to the other. Ruling a quarter of the New World with one big nation is wayyyyy different than being singularly dangerous enough to deter others (Red-Hairs, or holding a bunch of disparate, subjugated nations like Kaidou in Wano. Just weird that BM is the only yonkou described so far as having a personal nation when a nation is, arguably, the greatest form of owned territory.

 

[kkck]

I don't expect all yonko to have territories in the exact same fashion as big mom. I am not sure the manga would make sense if that was the case. All yonko do watch over some territory of course however those were described by Law as criminal spheres of influence and the yonko generally tried to remain under the radar. All yonko having actual kingdoms in the same fashion as big mom would essentially make everything law told us about the yonko a lie. What law describes should suggest the norm is something like what happened with fishman island which was formerly part of WB's territory and then it switched to big mom's. More so, big mom's specific dream was to build a nation to begin with, basically building such a territory was likely due to lin lin's specific objectives. In turn the other yonko wouldn't necessarily have such inclinations.

Also worth noting, none of the times we have seen the other yonko have we seen anything even the suggestion of a proper kingdom. Take WB, he was always at sea aboard his moby dick. Shanks is usually seen camping at random islands apparently camping or at his ship so far. Kaido was seen at an island though we have no indication so far that said island is his kingdom in the same sense as WCI is BM's kingdom.

That said, it is not impossible other yonko have kingdoms like big mom, I just wouldn't expect that to be the norm given how we have been told things work at the NW. Even referring to those guys as pirates would be wrong if that was the case considering they would be emperors in a very literal sense.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Except geography is totally different in One-Piece. IRL we base our nations off of arbitrary lines drawn across land. In OP nations are either isolated islands, or groups of islands ruled contiguously from one part of the sea to the other. Ruling a quarter of the New World with one big nation is wayyyyy different than being singularly dangerous enough to deter others (Red-Hairs, or holding a bunch of disparate, subjugated nations like Kaidou in Wano. Just weird that BM is the only yonkou described so far as having a personal nation when a nation is, arguably, the greatest form of owned territory.

Wano isn't Kaido's territory, he's in an alliance with the Shogun of Wano.

Garp has said it.

Law has also said it and also implied it.

It's why Emperors cannot be taken down without an alliance. It's why the Supernova allied just to take on Shanks. He also has a territory in which he governs exactly like Big Mom's.

 

[kcd]

Wano isn't Kaido's territory, he's in an alliance with the Shogun of Wano.

Garp has said it.

Law has also said it and also implied it.

It's why Emperors cannot be taken down without an alliance. It's why the Supernova allied just to take on Shanks. He also has a territory in which he governs exactly like Big Mom's.

Of course they all govern their territories.
The only thing you've proved (with the panels) is that they all have territories , nothing more.

You haven't really provided any backing that other yonkous are also into nation building to put their territories in the class of bigmom's.

North Korean president regardless of his ideology and the manner in which he rules functions similarly as the American president; fundamentally people who govern a country, how and why is not really changing anything fundamentally.

You missed the point a bit, it's not about the Presidents and how they govern, it's about their territories (countries).
North Korea is a territory, the United States is a territory, so how exactly are the two territories the same to categorically say one is like the other?, How exactly are other yonkou's territories same as bigmom's?, Do you have any evidence to back your claim?, especially since there's no prove whatsoever they are (other yonkous) also into nation building?

All Yonko Territory are like that of Big Mom's.

How exactly?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

You haven't really provided any backing that other yonkous are also into nation building to put their territories in the class of bigmom's.

Doesn't matter, fact is territories are group of countries within a certain region regulated and governed by the emperors. Call it nation or anything you want, the structure is similar.

 

[M3J]

Except geography is totally different in One-Piece. IRL we base our nations off of arbitrary lines drawn across land. In OP nations are either isolated islands, or groups of islands ruled contiguously from one part of the sea to the other. Ruling a quarter of the New World with one big nation is wayyyyy different than being singularly dangerous enough to deter others (Red-Hairs, or holding a bunch of disparate, subjugated nations like Kaidou in Wano. Just weird that BM is the only yonkou described so far as having a personal nation when a nation is, arguably, the greatest form of owned territory.

Probably because Big Mom cares enough to have a personal nation whereas most other Yonkou don't care enough for that. WHitebeard has come across like that, that territories don't mean as much to him other than protecting the citizens from pirates who might otherwise be tempted to wreak havoc, much like he did for Fishman Island.

 

[Core D. Roy]

It's amazing they can each control an 1/8 of the entire world at least with only BM having a centralized nation-state. I guess what I'm getting at is do you guys think the other yonkou have their own self-styled nation-states? I can see Kaidou having a stronghold, and maybe WB had one that BB 'inherited'. But Shanks? He and his crew are the biggest question mark in the whole series, and I kinda love it. His (and his crew's) true strength is one of Oda's greatest mysteries he's held close to the vest literally since chapter 1. Hell look at the still-persisting debates of the one-page exchange between Borsalino and Ben Beckman (of which I proudly partake).

Unlike the others, RH pirates seemingly have no great ambition beyond qualming the Marinford incident, the reasons of which I'm still not sure of. Presumably it would get in the way of their partying (I'd be okay with that if I knew it was their motivation honestly). And is probably the central reason Shanks would oppose Kaidou. World war is not good for partying. WB was practically a comrade-among-enemies and BM was content to sit around in her kingdom and play defense, but Kaidou has likely always been on the prowl to mess up the whole world.

Tangential: Wouldn't it be great if Shanks actually had a Buggy-esque non-claim to the reputation he has? I love imagining him like King in One-punch Man (the other best manga with 'One' in its name). Doesn't even have CoC, he can just control an 1/8 of the world with that much charisma and that badass of a glare. Queue Buggy/Shanks team-up.

 

[Fox666]

It's amazing they can each control an 1/8 of the entire world

They control 1/8 of the Grand Line, which is just a stripe that crossed the globe.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

It's amazing they can each control an 1/8 of the entire world at least with only BM having a centralized nation-state. I guess what I'm getting at is do you guys think the other yonkou have their own self-styled nation-states? I can see Kaidou having a stronghold, and maybe WB had one that BB 'inherited'. But Shanks? He and his crew are the biggest question mark in the whole series, and I kinda love it. His (and his crew's) true strength is one of Oda's greatest mysteries he's held close to the vest literally since chapter 1. Hell look at the still-persisting debates of the one-page exchange between Borsalino and Ben Beckman (of which I proudly partake).

Unlike the others, RH pirates seemingly have no great ambition beyond qualming the Marinford incident, the reasons of which I'm still not sure of. Presumably it would get in the way of their partying (I'd be okay with that if I knew it was their motivation honestly). And is probably the central reason Shanks would oppose Kaidou. World war is not good for partying. WB was practically a comrade-among-enemies and BM was content to sit around in her kingdom and play defense, but Kaidou has likely always been on the prowl to mess up the whole world.

Tangential: Wouldn't it be great if Shanks actually had a Buggy-esque non-claim to the reputation he has? I love imagining him like King in One-punch Man (the other best manga with 'One' in its name). Doesn't even have CoC, he can just control an 1/8 of the world with that much charisma and that badass of a glare. Queue Buggy/Shanks team-up.

Shanks does have territory. We saw Bartolomeo head into one and take down his Jolly Roger. We saw Brownbeard do this in WB's territory too after he died. Kaido and Big Mom most likely rule with iron fists tyrannically while Shanks and Whitebeard protect. When Brownbeard came into Whitebeard's territory, the civilians tried to remind them.

Spoiler

Big Mom and Kaido have also tried opposing Whitebeard, but couldn't. Law stated this in Punk hazard. It's not that they just lie dormant doing nothing. Taking over and attacking another territory requires planning and capital.

it's also not that Shanks has no ambition, he's just putting it on Luffy, otherwise he'd be making moves. He understands that what is about to happen is destiny, someone with the D initial has to do it which is why he bet on Luffy, and is why Whitebeard bet on Ace. Those with the D initial are destined to bring down the WG and revolutionise the world.

 

[M3J]

It's amazing they can each control an 1/8 of the entire world at least with only BM having a centralized nation-state. I guess what I'm getting at is do you guys think the other yonkou have their own self-styled nation-states? I can see Kaidou having a stronghold, and maybe WB had one that BB 'inherited'. But Shanks? He and his crew are the biggest question mark in the whole series, and I kinda love it. His (and his crew's) true strength is one of Oda's greatest mysteries he's held close to the vest literally since chapter 1. Hell look at the still-persisting debates of the one-page exchange between Borsalino and Ben Beckman (of which I proudly partake).

Unlike the others, RH pirates seemingly have no great ambition beyond qualming the Marinford incident, the reasons of which I'm still not sure of. Presumably it would get in the way of their partying (I'd be okay with that if I knew it was their motivation honestly). And is probably the central reason Shanks would oppose Kaidou. World war is not good for partying. WB was practically a comrade-among-enemies and BM was content to sit around in her kingdom and play defense, but Kaidou has likely always been on the prowl to mess up the whole world.

Tangential: Wouldn't it be great if Shanks actually had a Buggy-esque non-claim to the reputation he has? I love imagining him like King in One-punch Man (the other best manga with 'One' in its name). Doesn't even have CoC, he can just control an 1/8 of the world with that much charisma and that badass of a glare. Queue Buggy/Shanks team-up.

I don't think they do. Kaidou doesn't seem like the type to have a nation state or anything, though Blackbeard might, if not for power. I think Shanks either has territories or selective places that he lends his name to for protection. But overall, he and his crew look more like they want to have fun and shit, just as Whitebeard cared about having a family. Neither look like they want to become a pirate king. Shanks probably experienced all he did with Roger and as result doesn't have any big ambition. Maybe Kaidou's goal is to wreak havoc, so he doesn't really have a nation or anything, just territories for the lulz.

And it's not like Blackbeard inherited Whitebeard's territories. He either had to fight for it or somehow stake a claim.