Discussion How will Koon and Rak keep up with Baam

[Demonspeed]

Well, he is powerful . But comparing him to Baam isn't a good idea.

 

[shaheer]

I dont think Koons need will be diminished. One Baam is insanely loyal and Koon is prolly his closest friend now that rachel i off the list. Second Koon provides the team with something extremely valuable, brains, plans and confidence(in a manner which Baam cant offer)

 

[Siya101]

Well, he is powerful . But comparing him to Baam isn't a good idea.

Obviously, no one in the tower can compare to the power of an irregular but you need to be really strong to be their comrades like baek ryun and urek mazino so hopefully koon will become a high ranker so he won't be dead weight for baam and since he has to become leader of the koon family

 

[kkck]

The issue here is bam's team mates keeping up with him so as to at least be able to support him. There is a point at which they would straight up hinder him. The only one that gets a pass in this regard is aguero because he is a light bearer but if bam ever needs non lighthouse support then even aguero will fall short. The best case scenario here IMO remains that the gang will start climbing the tower the old fashion way and get tests directly from the administrators rather than rulers. This will mean the gang giving a huge fuck you to zahard's empire along with them consistently getting more difficult tests than they otherwise would and thus growing perhaps just enough to be a proper support for bam.

 

[Ripcord]

The issue here is bam's team mates keeping up with him so as to at least be able to support him. There is a point at which they would straight up hinder him. The only one that gets a pass in this regard is aguero because he is a light bearer but if bam ever needs non lighthouse support then even aguero will fall short. The best case scenario here IMO remains that the gang will start climbing the tower the old fashion way and get tests directly from the administrators rather than rulers. This will mean the gang giving a huge fuck you to zahard's empire along with them consistently getting more difficult tests than they otherwise would and thus growing perhaps just enough to be a proper support for bam.

I’d like to see more of that although who is to say that the all of the guardians oppose Zahard.

 

[kkck]

I’d like to see more of that although who is to say that the all of the guardians oppose Zahard.

The guardians opposing zahard does not make a difference here. All bam has to do is request a test directly from the administrator and the administrator should grant it regardless of its feelings for zahard. His main risk would be whether the rulers would react to such a thing as they do indeed technically work for the empire bam would be actively giving the middle finger to.

 

[Scarton]

I think, that Bam's companions just need to be stronger than the others regulars

 

[Ripcord]

I think, that Bam's companions just need to be stronger than the others regulars

That’s mostly true. But what happens when Karaka or the other FUG rankers start to get involved? I suppose that we don’t know of any floor like the FOD that would have little to no rules. If that is the case and all the floors are normal floors then maybe all they need to be is stronger than other regulars.

Still, I find it hard to believe that the Rankers will not become more involved as they move up in floors somehow.

 

[kkck]

That’s mostly true. But what happens when Karaka or the other FUG rankers start to get involved? I suppose that we don’t know of any floor like the FOD that would have little to no rules. If that is the case and all the floors are normal floors then maybe all they need to be is stronger than other regulars.

Still, I find it hard to believe that the Rankers will not become more involved as they move up in floors somehow.

Technically the gang should be protected from rankers. Overall rankers are not allowed to interfere with regulars and the few exceptions we have seen generally involve a ridiculously powerful person that is hard to stop... So the empire could technically send rankers against bam however they also risk breaking rules themselves. Think of anak, the empire is not a fan of her but they can only touch her via more conventional means when she is done climbing the tower. Even now they go through things like the name hunt station rather than merely sending a ranker to sneeze at her and kill her. The worst the empire could do is gather regulars from higher floors to target them.

 

[Ripcord]

Technically the gang should be protected from rankers. Overall rankers are not allowed to interfere with regulars and the few exceptions we have seen generally involve a ridiculously powerful person that is hard to stop... So the empire could technically send rankers against bam however they also risk breaking rules themselves. Think of anak, the empire is not a fan of her but they can only touch her via more conventional means when she is done climbing the tower. Even now they go through things like the name hunt station rather than merely sending a ranker to sneeze at her and kill her. The worst the empire could do is gather regulars from higher floors to target them.

I think your statement about Regulars from higher floors is why we don’t see any A/B/C class regulars on higher floors... they aren’t allowed to go down in floors until they reach the top. Or at least you can’t move outside of your class rank, because they would wreck lower ranked Regulars. Zahard (or anyone else) could just have Regulars get really strong all the way to just before becoming a Ranker and send them back to floor 2, but that seems to be forbidden by the rules.

The interference I was referring to was the FOD as well as the area above it where Karaka fought Yuri. That was still an area of the inner tower but it is not under Zahard’s domain because the guardian is dead. I don’t think there are any more exempt areas like that but who knows maybe there are, the Tower is a big place.

 

[kkck]

I think your statement about Regulars from higher floors is why we don’t see any A/B/C class regulars on higher floors... they aren’t allowed to go down in floors until they reach the top. Or at least you can’t move outside of your class rank, because they would wreck lower ranked Regulars. Zahard (or anyone else) could just have Regulars get really strong all the way to just before becoming a Ranker and send them back to floor 2, but that seems to be forbidden by the rules.

The interference I was referring to was the FOD as well as the area above it where Karaka fought Yuri. That was still an area of the inner tower but it is not under Zahard’s domain because the guardian is dead. I don’t think there are any more exempt areas like that but who knows maybe there are, the Tower is a big place.

If it worked like that then that would mean zahard and co can't do crap to bam or anyone really until they finish climbing the tower. What they could do, at worst, is send the strongest person from a given rank to face bam the second he achieves a rank. And even that would be pointless if bam becoming as strong as a ranker or even a high ranker within the short-mid term is a legitimate possibility. He will catch up to data zahard soon and between that and a ranker apparently there isn't much difference. And I maintain that bam will get to the 100th floor, take hon's test and pass it... Meaning that by that point bam will more or less be able to sneeze at high rankers and destroy them at a molecular level. Even though the sneeze wasn't even directed at them.

karaka and yuri fought at the name hunt station, that was in floor 39 IIRC. And they fought just outside the regular's area. They met again at the hell train after the FOD however as far as we know that was against the rules. Their very presence at the train was against the rules and they might very well face consequences for it at some point.

 

[Ripcord]

If it worked like that then that would mean zahard and co can't do crap to bam or anyone really until they finish climbing the tower. What they could do, at worst, is send the strongest person from a given rank to face bam the second he achieves a rank. And even that would be pointless if bam becoming as strong as a ranker or even a high ranker within the short-mid term is a legitimate possibility. He will catch up to data zahard soon and between that and a ranker apparently there isn't much difference. And I maintain that bam will get to the 100th floor, take hon's test and pass it... Meaning that by that point bam will more or less be able to sneeze at high rankers and destroy them at a molecular level. Even though the sneeze wasn't even directed at them.

karaka and yuri fought at the name hunt station, that was in floor 39 IIRC. And they fought just outside the regular's area. They met again at the hell train after the FOD however as far as we know that was against the rules. Their very presence at the train was against the rules and they might very well face consequences for it at some point.

Ah you’re right that was on floor 39, so apparently there are more zones that don’t have restrictions. I’ll have to re-read that part soon enough (made it to the Hand of Arlene part this weekend).

And that may be the case that Baam only faces the strongest of a given rank. Reflejo was an E-rank regular and he waited for thousands of years to support FUG’s cause. Why not send him up if he can simply come back down? It seems they needed him to stay put because he couldn’t go back.

My other point about Reflejo is that he was still a tough opponent for Baam and the team. There may be other FUG or Great Family regulars that are specialists waiting for the Son of V as he climbs.

One other possibility is this: Zahard realizes that his HF is broken and he loses his head and so he decides to destroy the rules of Regulars just to be able to take out Baam. It’s a a crazy thought but then again Zahard seems pretty crazy.

 

[kkck]

Ah you’re right that was on floor 39, so apparently there are more zones that don’t have restrictions. I’ll have to re-read that part soon enough (made it to the Hand of Arlene part this weekend).

And that may be the case that Baam only faces the strongest of a given rank. Reflejo was an E-rank regular and he waited for thousands of years to support FUG’s cause. Why not send him up if he can simply come back down? It seems they needed him to stay put because he couldn’t go back.

My other point about Reflejo is that he was still a tough opponent for Baam and the team. There may be other FUG or Great Family regulars that are specialists waiting for the Son of V as he climbs.

One other possibility is this: Zahard realizes that his HF is broken and he loses his head and so he decides to destroy the rules of Regulars just to be able to take out Baam. It’s a a crazy thought but then again Zahard seems pretty crazy.

It does take several years to move around in the tower regardless. Take good old lerolo, the guy started heading to floor 77 when he quite his job at the second floor and was only shown arriving there after the first timeskip. It took him 8 years to travel about halfway through the tower. In that regard, it is not too easy to simply grab the strongest person of a class and make them face bam.

As for reflejo, he actually took part in the workshop battle IIRC. From what I understand at least, if he went higher he would have become a d class regular or higher meaning he wouldn't have been able to participate in the workshop battle.

I don't doubt zahard could in theory just go anywhere and do what he pleases. If he wanted to go to the hell train and kill everyone there he could do so in a second. The issue there would be, well, what consequences there are to that and whether he is willing to go through the trouble of enduring them (and perhaps the question of whether the administrators will bother enforcing them because that seems like a chore as well).

 

[Ripcord]

It does take several years to move around in the tower regardless. Take good old lerolo, the guy started heading to floor 77 when he quite his job at the second floor and was only shown arriving there after the first timeskip. It took him 8 years to travel about halfway through the tower. In that regard, it is not too easy to simply grab the strongest person of a class and make them face bam.

As for reflejo, he actually took part in the workshop battle IIRC. From what I understand at least, if he went higher he would have become a d class regular or higher meaning he wouldn't have been able to participate in the workshop battle.

I don't doubt zahard could in theory just go anywhere and do what he pleases. If he wanted to go to the hell train and kill everyone there he could do so in a second. The issue there would be, well, what consequences there are to that and whether he is willing to go through the trouble of enduring them (and perhaps the question of whether the administrators will bother enforcing them because that seems like a chore as well).

Yes that’s true for Reflejo, but why then would they have to use an e-rank regular and the Workshop battle to handle Baam if they could just send down a higher ranked regular? Seems like even FUG are stuck using the mechanisms of the tower and can’t just use power to get what they want.

 

[kkck]

Yes that’s true for Reflejo, but why then would they have to use an e-rank regular and the Workshop battle to handle Baam if they could just send down a higher ranked regular? Seems like even FUG are stuck using the mechanisms of the tower and can’t just use power to get what they want.

Well, that is the thing, the people born within the tower are constrained by their rules. And to be fair, so are irregulars to a large extent. And the workshop battle doesn't even work as an example of what you are suggesting though. The workshop battle was about controlling bam, who would end up with the thorn and ultimately a feud between two different fug factions. The whole thing would have been significantly different had karaka not been up to shenanigans.

 

[Ripcord]

Well, that is the thing, the people born within the tower are constrained by their rules. And to be fair, so are irregulars to a large extent. And the workshop battle doesn't even work as an example of what you are suggesting though. The workshop battle was about controlling bam, who would end up with the thorn and ultimately a feud between two different fug factions. The whole thing would have been significantly different had karaka not been up to shenanigans.

Re-reading the Hell Train arc it states that any D-class can take the train which means regulars have to somehow go back down. It also means that regulars who already passed normal floor tests can’t usually re-take them but the Hell Train is an exception.

Still no info about whether regulars can descend below their class, but they can descend within their class.

 

[Brian Taboada]

What about the "Royal Assassin Unit" (RED)? They seem to have the power to interact with regulars even though they are Rankers. One such mission was to retrieve Green April, Black March and execute Anak Zahard on the second floor of tests. Then there is also Yuri and karaka who have ventured into the Regular area of the Train. Or Ha Jinsung at the Workshop battle. Urek inside the Zygaena. They all interfered and interacted with regulars while being a ranker. I wonder if the rule is more a political fopa then a hard and fast "law of nature". Or perhaps the regular areas are actually smaller then we may think.

I suspect ranker assassins will be sent after Baam and company soon enough.

 

[shaheer]

FUG will interfere with the regulars, they are an anarchist group, to begin with so the rules of rankers leave regulars alone won't really bother them. The RED and other such police force of Zahard will intervene if something strange is seen to happen in the tower and would want to infiltrate different parts of the towers bureaucratic structure to spy. So though the general rule is rankers are not bothered with regulars i am sure we will see rankers involvements.

 

[kkck]

What about the "Royal Assassin Unit" (RED)? They seem to have the power to interact with regulars even though they are Rankers. One such mission was to retrieve Green April, Black March and execute Anak Zahard on the second floor of tests. Then there is also Yuri and karaka who have ventured into the Regular area of the Train. Or Ha Jinsung at the Workshop battle. Urek inside the Zygaena. They all interfered and interacted with regulars while being a ranker. I wonder if the rule is more a political fopa then a hard and fast "law of nature". Or perhaps the regular areas are actually smaller then we may think.

I suspect ranker assassins will be sent after Baam and company soon enough.

I think the floor of tests is likely a sort of special case. As we know this is where people deemed a threat to the empire are weeded out basically. So this is the only chance the empire has to get at unwanted regulars directly. Later on we see the empire taking less direct means to deal with unwanted regulars such as the name hunt station meaning that there probably are aditional safeguards protecting them. Rankers can of course just go and kill anyone but at that point they risk the wrath of administrators. Which is not something they would so easily risk. And if they take a risk they do it with caution. Take jinsung who got worried that the administrator was looking at him when he was at the regular's area...

The empire could send rankers after bam though it would IMO come with great risk for them because bam would still be protected. Not to mention that by the time this arc is done bam will be as strong or stronger than a standard ranker... Given that I am thinking that the best answer the empire will have to bam is to not send rankers but rather their more exceptional regulars against them. We know cases of regulars who are as strong or stronger than rankers and even high rankers before they finish climbing the tower. It wouldn't be too strange if there are such people climbing the tower.

 

[Sproumfch]

About how Koon & Rak will keep up with Baam I'd say they will never anymore be near of his leveln though they might be in the top 5 strongest regulars in each rank, especially with the power up papaKoon is actually givin to them.

I think Rak is going to become a Defender - Fisherman (he wanted to be fisherman at the beginning of the floor of test), Koon a Spearbearer - Lightbearer and Baam is going to be Baam. BTW it's intersting what papa Koon (in the HF) stated about his son's power : the ice spear is really rare, and that's a huge hint about Koon's next specialty.
About Androssi I'd say she'll just become more and more powerfull but will just assist Koon & Rak while Bam does all the work.

IMO I also think AA & Ran are more or less on the same level, it's just that Koon never puts himself in a situation where he has to go all-out, exactly the contrary of Ran.