Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2018] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[SharkBait]

I find Fairy Tail more enjoyable, it has Gray Fullbuster with his awesome quirk, what more does one need??? But also all its action and plot was good and it always managed to outdo itself. No arc in Fairy Tail had me getting fatigued. Only times One Piece > Fairy Tail are just Alabasta and The War Arc (with the trash Kingdom) otherwise, Oracian Seis and The Karst Tower arc of Fairy Tail are like better than One PIece.

 

[Caiops]

This week's chapter from RobotxLaserbeam was so good, Naruto boy is cute.

 

[Doughboy]

Only similarities between the two are the sense of ongoing adventure to various destinations, early art style of bubbly characters with skinny limbs, female characters with all same busty body types, heavy focus on comradery. Oda masterful in foreshadowing techniques in minute details, Mashima foreshadows only major plot points then like Kubo goes with the flow in between planned story arcs and for route options to take the plot which incurs story flaws to avid readers due to inefficient handling of it. Reliance on friendship less contrived in OP while the output is as much. Worldbuilding notable in both but OP takes it next level.

Also it came to me just now that these two series show the journey in the between locations. I remember reading people debate BC not being an adventure manga with the reasoning due to no showcase of the actual journey between destinations. Characters will say where they're heading and then pop up there next panel. The anime did this once early on and a small amount following Yuno's group but the world is set up for it so it should be way more imo. I could be wrong cause I watch the anime so the manga could of did it.

 

[WyldViolet]

Here we go again. Years have passed and I still insist on this question: how can Mashima's art style be so similar to Oda's?

To say that it is because both are fans of Toriyama is a lazy excuse. Horikoshi, Murata, Nakaba, Kishimoto, they all are crazy for Toriyama and yet their arts are different.

Rave was an adventure/battle manga that belonged to the WSJ's rival. I bet a MAGAZINE SUPER PUSH happened in 1999. XD

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 19, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 19, 2018 ---

BTW, considering that Rave was a response to One Piece's success, I kept thinking other times that this happened. Can you tell?

Many say that Kimagure Orange was a response to Touch's success.

Many say that Samurai Deeper Kyo was a response to Kenshin's success.

RG Veda, Shurato and Samurai Troopers were a response to the success of Saint Seiya.

Full Ahead CoCo and One Piece.

 

[Tarot]

As bad as Fairy Tail was with its terrible writing, at least the female cast weren't always portrayed as weak compared to the male cast like in One Piece.

 

[Tarot]

The only thing FT females were portrayed as was with g-strings and shoving their tits into costumes with zero functionality but 100% fanservice capabilities.

I don't mind it as long as they're pulling their weight in battles. It's characters like Rebecca who dresses like a whore while being a useless crybaby on top of it which is bad.

And in terms of fanservice, Oda's done the same by turning Nami and Robin into sex objects. I don't get why he gets a pass for all the objectification of the female characters.

 

[Doughboy]

Erza is deff top 5 worst, I fully support this. But I can’t imagine a world where Sakura doesn’t come #1. Everything people go back and forth on female activity in shonen (screen time, development in regards to themselves and just not a love interest, prominent contribution in important story arcs) is exactly not what Sakura was. Part 1 Sakura probably was the worst depiction of a female character we’ll ever see in our generation and an insult to females in general. I’ll never forget as kid watching how damning it was when Sakura begged Naruto to bring back Sasuke after he left with the sound 4. The same Sakura who beat up Naruto, mocked him being an orphan, ignored his feelings while she was forcing hers on Sasuke who gave no fucks about her. Naruto still agreed in the end. Her highest point in 700 chapters was Sakura vs. Sasori but bottomed out again with “confession” chapter. She was an abomination of the highest order.

 

[Nakura]

Shoseki Rankings (12/2-19/2)
4. Hunter x Hunter #35
9. Haikyu!! #30
11. My Hero Academia #17
16. Food Wars!: Shokugeki no Soma #28
54. We Never Learn #5
56. Dr. Stone #4
296. Lycopene the Tomatoy Poodle #1
486. Full Drive #1

30位19600/50位13000/100位7300/200位3750/300位2850/400位2200/500位1850

 

[SharkBait]

Full drive charted! Theres hope.

 

[cody]

Full drive charted! Theres hope.

It's already dead.

 

[shoyoboyo]

As much as I want talk about how FT dropped hard, let's chill out on the discussion or else jagman is gonna nuke the whole thread, no survivors.

I'm still mad about Gajeel being shafted multiple times.

 

[Mammo]

the new Plus series which is illustrated by my gurl Mitsuki Nagata started today but it looks like it will actually be a 6 chapters long mini series

https://shonenjumpplus.com/episode/10834108156628638548

I'm kinda fine with that, didn't really find the start particularly interesting

 

[iceemperor]

I don't mind it as long as they're pulling their weight in battles. It's characters like Rebecca who dresses like a whore while being a useless crybaby on top of it which is bad.

And in terms of fanservice, Oda's done the same by turning Nami and Robin into sex objects. I don't get why he gets a pass for all the objectification of the female characters.

I won't get too deep into this here but you're simplifying down Rebecca too much. Sure her role was diminished as the arc went on but she still held her own in the colosseum. You can argue she didn't beat anyone named but she still left the final round alive despite being horribly outmatched by all the other contestants. Again you can pull the plot armor reason but she also had a goal as to why she was fighting. But again, she was outmatched almost the entire arc and Kyros didn't even want her to fight to begin with. I agree that Oda's execution of her was lackluster but she's far from Sakura.

 

[ChocoBar9]

If I can give any sort of criticism for Oda's handling of his female characters is the fact that he tends to diminish their characters as an arc goes on. Pudding currently is a great example since she had so many layers to her character that was played with up until the reveal that she was using the strawhats the entire time and planned to kill Sanji but then all it took was Sanji complimenting her third eye and she turned to lovestruck gag character and that was only because Oda needed an excuse for Sanji to make a cake for Big Mom this is not only a rehash of what he did to Hancock turning a potentially interesting character to lovestuck gag character just to be used as a plot device but it also got real old then again Oda loves running gags to the ground for better (GOD Ussop) or for worse (Captain Buggy-sama). Vivi was the only arc specific female character who didn't diminish as a character in one arc in fact she became one of his bests character ever by the end of Albasta and you actually wanted for her to stick around. I didn't care much for Rebecca and I think a lot of people's problem with her is that all she became was just a trophy-daughter for Kyros to gain by the end of the arc despite the fact that we got more of Rebecca and her strife including a climatic battle with her killer only for Kyros to take it in the end. Shihoshi was just a plot device and as flawed as Fishman Island was as an arc thankfully her character didn't actually regress but more like there was never a whole lot to begin with. Outside that I don't really have any problems with Nami or Robin as characters though some people will hark on the fact that they haven't had any solo battles since the timeskip started and their outfits getting skimpier. Carrot is a fun character and Big Mom has been a great villain.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2018 ---

As bad as Fairy Tail was with its terrible writing, at least the female cast weren't always portrayed as weak compared to the male cast like in One Piece.

You say this but only character who accomplishes anything is Erza and that's mainly because..she's Erza. The rest of the female cast don't really accomplish anything of worth. Also the whole stint of female characters in Fairy Tail are good because they get to fight gets dashed away when you realized that its just another form of fanservice meant to cater towards "ryona" lovers. And it got pretty ridiculous during the final arc though nothing went as far as the Erza bdsm torture scene which I can gurantee Mashima had his hands down his pants while drawing.

Spoiler

 

[Heiji]

 

[TyVip]

Good and enjoyable characters can save a shitty story but shitty characters will get one way ticket to the axe machine no matter how good the plot is.

 

[Leoat12]

I don't think that there are stories with bad characters and good plots. The characters make the plot and if they are bad, the plot loses its appeal.

 

[shoyoboyo]

Neverland doesn't necessarily have bad characters, but it's characters aren't that strong either. It's carried pretty hard by the story.

 

[ChocoBar9]

I don't think that there are stories with bad characters and good plots. The characters make the plot and if they are bad, the plot loses its appeal.

Death Note. Its carried primarily by its themes and story but the characters are not good.

 

[De La Croissant]

I don't think that there are stories with bad characters and good plots. The characters make the plot and if they are bad, the plot loses its appeal.

Not always. In some stories (plot-focused stories), the characters are just, well, plot devices, they obey the plot.