The Last Person to Post Wins - Balius

[GrySun]

I can't understand your mindset at all? People criticizing a man because he takes breaks (for health, family or research). You could actually call that bullying, if it got to Oda anyway. It's still people badmouthing a person for no valid reason.

No valid reason? I can‘t compare it to people you‘ve seen arguing, but those I‘ve seen are sick of the combination of a lackluster arc, dragged out intentionally as much as possible, and then adding in regular breaks. It‘s just one of the many things people complain about with this arc, and for good reason.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 3, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 3, 2018 ---

But he isn't writing about Oda like that at all?

That's how you're interpreting for some strange reason.

That is exactly the understanding I‘m getting from his words though. And I‘ve had a lot of arguments with people loving the author of a manga/game/book in the past, it‘s quite silly how the talks always progress the same way.

 

[Xadyu]

No valid reason? I can‘t compare it to people you‘ve seen arguing, but those I‘ve seen are sick of the combination of a lackluster arc, dragged out intentionally as much as possible, and then adding in regular breaks. It‘s just one of the many things people complain about with this arc, and for good reason.

Yeah, well, for the arc being 'lackluster' or 'dragged out', I agree with you there, but I've felt that way about OP arcs ever since Marineford. The thing is, that is very subjective, since everyone experiences that different.

But you can't criticize someone for taking breaks, that's basically what we're saying. That's not a good reason at all, the two reasons above, is different for everyone.

 

[Riku]

>Writes about how Oda is some god you can‘t say anything bad about
>How and who is he fanboying though?

Oh boy

Me treating Oda like a God? I thought I was doing the exact opposite, treating him as a normal working man.

 

[GrySun]

Me treating Oda like a God? I thought I was doing the exact opposite, treating him as a normal working man.

Normal working men don‘t have any special privileges about being immune to criticism though.

 

[Elusia]

This convo tho

 

[GrySun]

Yeah, well, for the arc being 'lackluster' or 'dragged out', I agree with you there, but I've felt that way about OP arcs ever since Marineford. The thing is, that is very subjective, since everyone experiences that different.

But you can't criticize someone for taking breaks, that's basically what we're saying. That's not a good reason at all, the two reasons above, is different for everyone.

It‘s always thrown into the complaints of the arc where I‘ve seen it, as a further detail to why they dislike the arc. And there they are right, the breaks completely hurt an already slow arc further.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 3, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 3, 2018 ---

This convo tho

This is the good old fun forum as I remember it Always something to discuss.

 

[Elusia]

This is the good old fun forum as I remember it Always something to discuss.

Ah, that's cool.... and it's lively as ever. Keep it up

 

[Rein Avara]

Normal working men don‘t have any special privileges about being immune to criticism though.

Normal working men also do not work under the same conditions as mangaka's do though.

 

[Riku]

Normal working men don‘t have any special privileges about being immune to criticism though.

When the hell did I say OP or Oda is immune to criticism? All I said was that whining about having days off is stupid. You have days of too right every now and then? I already said you can have all the opinions about the content as you want.

Are you sure it is really me who should re-read?

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 3, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 3, 2018 ---

Also btw, you never asked, but what I thought about the Luffy vs Katakuri? I thought it was pretty bad mostly. I think it was Xad who said it was fucked from the start, and with that I agree. I feel like Oda wrote himself into a dead end.

 

[GrySun]

Normal working men also do not work under the same conditions as mangaka's do though.

But then we‘re back at him not treating him as a normal working man?

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 3, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 3, 2018 ---

When the hell did I say OP or Oda is immune to criticism? All I said was that whining about having days off is stupid. You have days of too right every now and then? I already said you can have all the opinions about the content as you want.

Are you sure it is really me who should re-read?

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 3, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 3, 2018 ---

Also btw, you never asked, but what I thought about the Luffy vs Katakuri? I thought it was pretty bad mostly. I think it was Xad who said it was fucked from the start, and with that I agree. I feel like Oda wrote himself into a dead end.

You said one can‘t whine about him taking days off because of his hard situation. But it‘s definitely tied together with the content itself, it‘s not a seperate matter as you claim. If read sometime in the future with all volumes then it doesn‘t matter, but for all people reading it weekly, a slow fight which already suffers from several problems will have even more problems with added breaks. He may need them, but that‘s not the point. The point is that those breaks further hurt the fight/arc. At which point people can blame the breaks for their disappointment, since the breaks definitely also played a part in it.

 

[Riku]

Normal working men also do not work under the same conditions as mangaka's do though.

But then we‘re back at him not treating him as a normal working man?

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 3, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 3, 2018 ---

You said one can‘t whine about him taking days off because of his hard situation. But it‘s definitely tied together with the content itself, it‘s not a seperate matter as you claim. If read sometime in the future with all volumes then it doesn‘t matter, but for all people reading it weekly, a slow fight which already suffers from several problems will have even more problems with added breaks. He may need them, but that‘s not the point. The point is that those breaks further hurt the fight/arc. At which point people can blame the breaks for their disappointment, since the breaks definitely also played a part in it.

It is completly separate. Actually, according to studies and personal experience, frequent breaks make for better creative content. Maybe Oda should take a proper month or two summer vacation to relax and think of whats next.

But yeah, the spacing has been slow. So many things happening in different places at once. I've actually think OP has suffered from this ever since the character roster has grown so huge after W7.

Sure, people can blame breaks breaks for their dissapoinment. Sure, breaks do effect the overall experience (not the content in itself though, as you said) while readin OP in real time. That still doesn't change the fact that it's childis whining, and I'm full of it.

 

[Hakuteiken]

Hello, FF.
Passerby post incoming.

But then we‘re back at him not treating him as a normal working man?

Because, in this entire conversation, you have got no actual stance, that's why. You are not taking a stance on either side of the argument yourself, yet you seem to be a bystander to criticize in all conditions.

He is a normal working person, hence he is going to take time off, and with the work mostly being independent, it hinges on his perspective at first.
He is also an overworking person as a mangaka, hence you can't compare regular working people's schedules with him properly.
Yet, in actuality, this also means nothing, because normal or abnormal working person, working people are criticized and reviewed based on what they produce, not the breaks they take off unless they are regular working people.
So, should this clarify enough, there are people who are normal working people on irregular schedules and so on.

You said one can‘t whine about him taking days off because of his hard situation. But it‘s definitely tied together with the content itself, it‘s not a seperate matter as you claim. If read sometime in the future with all volumes then it doesn‘t matter, but for all people reading it weekly, a slow fight which already suffers from several problems will have even more problems with added breaks. He may need them, but that‘s not the point. The point is that those breaks further hurt the fight/arc. At which point people can blame the breaks for their disappointment, since the breaks definitely also played a part in it.

Well, in reality, this has got nothing to do with the content itself and is an entirely separate matter, unlike what you claim. Even at a technical level, slow transitions between scenes have little to do with breaks. A 7-day break or a 14-day break between two scenes of a slowly transitioning scene is non-existent. People who blame the breaks for their disappointment regarding the content are just enjoying their routine non sequitur. If you think there are problems with content, you criticize the content directly, instead of trying to put the blame on something else.

It can always be done, I agree with you. It's also the fail-safe option to criticize something underhandedly, because no fan would ever be able to argue back with "Hiatuses are really good for the manga", because they also don't like it in the first place, and you'd guarantee you never lose out on an argument. Which is what I meant by not having an actual stance, because you wouldn't even need to have one.

Regards.

 

[Elusia]

Oh my, what a surprising post

 

[GrySun]

It is completly separate. Actually, according to studies and personal experience, frequent breaks make for better creative content. Maybe Oda should take a proper month or two summer vacation to relax and think of whats next.

But yeah, the spacing has been slow. So many things happening in different places at once. I've actually think OP has suffered from this ever since the character roster has grown so huge after W7.

Sure, people can blame breaks breaks for their dissapoinment. Sure, breaks do effect the overall experience (not the content in itself though, as you said) while readin OP in real time. That still doesn't change the fact that it's childis whining, and I'm full of it.

So you acknowledge the breaks affect the chapter quality in chapters which already suffer from bad pacin, but then still say it‘s nothing more than child‘s whining? That‘s exactly the „fanboy“ part I mentioned. Not sure what else to tell you here anymore, as you agreed with my point but take completely different conclusions from it.

Yes he could use a longer break, but starting frequent breaks in a very bad time is hardly helping the situation as apparent. I just hope he picks up the part that‘s coming after the fight now and does it well without needlessly prolonging it again.

 

[Xadyu]

So you acknowledge the breaks affect the chapter quality in chapters which already suffer from bad pacin, but then still say it‘s nothing more than child‘s whining?

Eh.. no.. That's not what he said at all.

 

[GrySun]

Well, in reality, this has got nothing to do with the content itself and is an entirely separate matter, unlike what you claim. Even at a technical level, slow transitions between scenes have little to do with breaks. A 7-day break or a 14-day break between two scenes of a slowly transitioning scene is non-existent. People who blame the breaks for their disappointment regarding the content are just enjoying their routine non sequitur. If you think there are problems with content, you criticize the content directly, instead of trying to put the blame on something else.

It can always be done, I agree with you. It's also the fail-safe option to criticize something underhandedly, because no fan would ever be able to argue back with "Hiatuses are really good for the manga", because they also don't like it in the first place, and you'd guarantee you never lose out on an argument. Which is what I meant by not having an actual stance, because you wouldn't even need to have one.

You‘re obviously reading nothing but still come here to reply, saying again it‘s unrelated to the content when it is completely related. As I said, in a situation with already bad pacing throwing in breaks will make everything even worse. It‘s a reason for the poor content or the poor reception of said content.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 3, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 3, 2018 ---

Eh.. no.. That's not what he said at all.

Sure, breaks do effect the overall experience (not the content in itself though, as you said) while readin OP in real time.

My god Xad

You can only look back at things as a whole once the arc or manga is finished. Reactions to chapters are influenced by much more than content in a vacuum. Mangas don‘t work that way.

 

[Hakuteiken]

Oh my, what a surprising post

I tend to get sensitive when it comes to logical fallacies, pardon the intrusion.

You‘re obviously reading nothing but still come here to reply, saying again it‘s unrelated to the content when it is completely related. As I said, in a situation with already bad pacing throwing in breaks will make everything even worse. It‘s a reason for the poor content or the poor reception of said content.

I'm reading a few things myself, and I'm not talking about a specific series here, so, I don't see why the use of ad hominem to try and undervalue my opinion was necessary.
Also, as a friendly advice, while debating, refraining from words like "obviously" while making claims is much healthier and less provoking for all parties involved.

The break in between is not the root cause of poor content, because the story direction is not decided in the last moment. Technically, it can be decided in the last moment, which would be the actual reason there is poor content in the first place, not the break itself.
Again, I did not claim this sort of criticism cannot exist. Weekly readers will get frustrated waiting for new content without exception. If they weren't getting frustrated, they wouldn't be weekly reading fans in the first place.
However, its existence does not validate itself on its own. Just because some people do something wrong doesn't mean there is a valid reasoning behind what they are doing.

 

[Xadyu]

My god Xad

He was speaking about the reading experience, not the content. So no, it doesn't affect the chapters itself.

My god Gry

 

[Elusia]

I tend to get sensitive when it comes to logical fallacies, pardon the intrusion.

Oh, no no, it's perfectly fine. It's good to see debates like these from every person every now and then.

And welcome to the thread o/

 

[GrySun]

I'm reading a few things myself, and I'm not talking about a specific series here, so, I don't see why the use of ad hominem to try and undervalue my opinion was necessary.
Also, as a friendly advice, while debating, refraining from words like "obviously" while making claims is much healthier and less provoking for all parties involved.

The break in between is not the root cause of poor content, because the story direction is not decided in the last moment. Technically, it can be decided in the last moment, which would be the actual reason there is poor content in the first place, not the break itself.
Again, I did not claim this sort of criticism cannot exist. Weekly readers will get frustrated waiting for new content without exception. If they weren't getting frustrated, they wouldn't be weekly reading fans in the first place.
However, its existence does not validate itself on its own. Just because some people do something wrong doesn't mean there is a valid reasoning behind what they are doing.

It was necessary since at the time it didn’t seem like you had anything new or significant to add which was either already said or just going backwards.
Thanks for the friendly advice, will keep that in mind.

I never said it was the root cause. This discussion was primarily about whether people can or cannot whine about breaks in those chapters, not an analytical breakdown on all the problems in OP. It is but one of the many reasons people are throwing in to complain about. Which you seem to agree with.