Discussion Could Zeldris beat Escanor?

MrSchmitty7

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He already took a Pride flare from 114k Escanor with apparently no damage.He's not getting fodderized.

Some more points in his favour-
Zeldris was specifically highlighted to give Mel as much entertain as 114k Escanor.
His 2nd stage demon mark,power sealing and curses that would turn Escanor into a vegetable.

It would be similar to Estarossa vs Escanor.He's below Escanor in raw power but makes up for it with his abilities
Estarossa was placed into a coma, and then experimented on by Peronia while being in a healing tank. Nothing worked even though Zeldris was there to try to help in anyway shape or form...

Secondly, Mel wasn’t in Assault Mode 24/7 in the past. Estarossa clearly shows that he had a regular form in the past. Not only that but Mel toys with his opponents. Who’s to say he wouldn’t do that with Zeldris? If he went seriously, he’d be dead.

Third Zeldris second seal probably would only boost him to the 70K as most demon marks have only offered around 20K increases as shown

Fourth. If estarossa who has higher physical capabilities can’t even track Escanor, how is Zel supposed to seal his magic?
 

Arjuna

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Zeldris will get massacred like Estarossa by Escanor.

Anything else is nothing canon.
 

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Estarossa was placed into a coma, and then experimented on by Peronia while being in a healing tank. Nothing worked even though Zeldris was there to try to help in anyway shape or form...

Secondly, Mel wasn’t in Assault Mode 24/7 in the past. Estarossa clearly shows that he had a regular form in the past. Not only that but Mel toys with his opponents. Who’s to say he wouldn’t do that with Zeldris? If he went seriously, he’d be dead.

Third Zeldris second seal probably would only boost him to the 70K as most demon marks have only offered around 20K increases as shown

Fourth. If estarossa who has higher physical capabilities can’t even track Escanor, how is Zel supposed to seal his magic?
I doubt there is anything special to meliodas currently being in AM constantly. Meliodas has already shown he can fully deactivate his demon powers if he so chooses it. Some time ago nakaba made the point that the commandments could shut their darkness off if they wanted to as well, they didn't because they were battle ready so to speak. For meliodas it's probably the same now. He isn't letting his guard down for even a second thus he stays in his assault mode.
 

Mythoclast

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Estarossa was placed into a coma, and then experimented on by Peronia while being in a healing tank. Nothing worked even though Zeldris was there to try to help in anyway shape or form...
What's your point?
61k Zeldris was caught in the epicentre of Pride flare and came out unscathed.


Secondly, Mel wasn’t in Assault Mode 24/7 in the past. Estarossa clearly shows that he had a regular form in the past. Not only that but Mel toys with his opponents. Who’s to say he wouldn’t do that with Zeldris? If he went seriously, he’d be dead.
Lmao..Assault mode Mel made the comparison.No amount of mental gymnastics is going to take away from the fact that Zeldris was highlighted to entertain him as much as 114k Escanor.

Third Zeldris second seal probably would only boost him to the 70K as most demon marks have only offered around 20K increases as shown
"Most demon marks"
Bruh...We've literally only got a reading on pre-resurrection Mel powerlevel increase..
Based on Mel's comment and the constant hype Zel has been given,I'm inclined to believe it's higher than your estimate.
But's it's all speculation at this point.

Fourth. If estarossa who has higher physical capabilities can’t even track Escanor, how is Zel supposed to seal his magic?
Having more brute strength and a higher strength powerlevel than someone does not=being faster than said person.
If that was the case then Gloxinia and King would straight up get blitzed by any and everyone inverse.

There is also the fact that 61k Zeldris could somewhat react to the incoming Cruel Sun from 114kEscanor while Estarossa got blitzed twice on both occasions Escanor used his Cruel sun in their fight.
So if anything Zeldris' speed and reactions> Estarossa's....lmao
 

Arjuna

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What's your point?
61k Zeldris was caught in the epicentre of Pride flare and came out unscathed.



Lmao..Assault mode Mel made the comparison.No amount of mental gymnastics is going to take away from the fact that Zeldris was highlighted to entertain him as much as 114k Escanor.


"Most demon marks"
Bruh...We've literally only got a reading on pre-resurrection Mel powerlevel increase..
Based on Mel's comment and the constant hype Zel has been given,I'm inclined to believe it's higher than your estimate.
But's it's all speculation at this point.


Having more brute strength and a higher strength powerlevel than someone does not=being faster than said person.
If that was the case then Gloxinia and King would straight up get blitzed by any and everyone inverse.

There is also the fact that 61k Zeldris could somewhat react to the incoming Cruel Sun from 114kEscanor while Estarossa got blitzed twice on both occasions Escanor used his Cruel sun in their fight.
So if anything Zeldris' speed and reactions> Estarossa's....lmao
Estarossa took the burnt of the attack.Zeldris was guarded by Estarossa's massive body and so it had virtually no effect on Zeldris.Even so the impact was so huge that both of them were thrown into the sea.
 

Kay3795

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So if anything Zeldris' speed and reactions> Estarossa's....lmao
This point I'd definitely back full-force because Zeldris actually demonstrated the famous "quickdraw" technique, meaning his speed, swordsmanship & reaction must be really really high.

I'd get back on this discussion later. Working atm.
 

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No amount of mental gymnastics is going to take away from the fact that Zeldris was highlighted to entertain him as much as 114k Escanor.
Still it wouldn't make sense for Zeldris to go over 75k with the 2nd mark.Why? Well he is already 61k with his 1st demon mark, so he wouldn't get a huge boost with the 2nd.While Meliodas at base was 60k, it makes sense for him to get a big boost in PL with his demon mark, unlike Zeldris who is 61k with his already activated 1st demon mark.And the DK power probably gives him more abilities, not a PL boost.
 

MrSchmitty7

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What's your point?
61k Zeldris was caught in the epicentre of Pride flare and came out unscathed.



Lmao..Assault mode Mel made the comparison.No amount of mental gymnastics is going to take away from the fact that Zeldris was highlighted to entertain him as much as 114k Escanor.


"Most demon marks"
Bruh...We've literally only got a reading on pre-resurrection Mel powerlevel increase..
Based on Mel's comment and the constant hype Zel has been given,I'm inclined to believe it's higher than your estimate.
But's it's all speculation at this point.


Having more brute strength and a higher strength powerlevel than someone does not=being faster than said person.
If that was the case then Gloxinia and King would straight up get blitzed by any and everyone inverse.

There is also the fact that 61k Zeldris could somewhat react to the incoming Cruel Sun from 114kEscanor while Estarossa got blitzed twice on both occasions Escanor used his Cruel sun in their fight.
So if anything Zeldris' speed and reactions> Estarossa's....lmao
Estarossa took the brunt of it and it’s suspected that the two of them fell into the water. There were two drops before the cruel sun hit the ground.

Lol what? Only assault Mel can have fun with Zeldris? Is he bipolar? That’s a stretch.

You know that last time the community went off of hype was with estarossa. They said he would beat Escanor because of “hype.” Hype means nothing

Also Zel reacted to the cruel sun because Escanor literally left it on Estarossa and held it above his head while giving a speech.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I doubt there is anything special to meliodas currently being in AM constantly. Meliodas has already shown he can fully deactivate his demon powers if he so chooses it. Some time ago nakaba made the point that the commandments could shut their darkness off if they wanted to as well, they didn't because they were battle ready so to speak. For meliodas it's probably the same now. He isn't letting his guard down for even a second thus he stays in his assault mode.
Yeah, that’s true. I’m just saying he had it off in the past
 

Mythoclast

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Estarossa took the brunt of it and
Estarossa took the brunt of the Cruel sun,not the Pride flare.They were both caught within the epicentre of the explosion.

it’s suspected that the two of them fell into the water. There were two drops before the cruel sun hit the ground.
Can't say that for sure.The Cruel sun was moving at high speeds,so it could just be a rippling effect.
Also how would they just fall down when it was pushing them with such force?

Lol what? Only assault Mel can have fun with Zeldris? Is he bipolar? That’s a stretch.
I never said that.I'm just stating that the amount of fun 114k Escanor gave him was just as much as Zeldris did.

You know that last time the community went off of hype was with estarossa. They said he would beat Escanor because of “hype.” Hype means nothing
I'm not speaking from the community's pov,I'm speaking about the hype characters inverse gives him.
Estarossa never really had anything concrete going for him expect being so mysterious and stopping a Revenge Counter.But the Revenge counter feat got discounted when it was revealed that Mel was influenced by his commandment.

Zeldris on the other has numerous things going for him.
He is the DK's representative,he's stated to be the strongest after the DK himself(and assault mode Mel of course).
He possesses a portion of one of the most powerful magic in the series,he's the only other person besides assault mode Mel that's stated to be able to bust Mera's Dark Cocoon and even after seeing what 114k Escanor was capable of he was confident that he'd be able to take on the Sins when he activated his 2nd stage demon mark.And he isn't a character to bluff.

Also Zel reacted to the cruel sun because Escanor literally left it on Estarossa and held it above his head while giving a speech.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
No.He flung it towards Zeldris.And Zel still managed to react.
 

MrSchmitty7

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Estarossa took the brunt of the Cruel sun,not the Pride flare.They were both caught within the epicentre of the explosion.


Can't say that for sure.The Cruel sun was moving at high speeds,so it could just be a rippling effect.
Also how would they just fall down when it was pushing them with such force?


I never said that.I'm just stating that the amount of fun 114k Escanor gave him was just as much as Zeldris did.


I'm not speaking from the community's pov,I'm speaking about the hype characters inverse gives him.
Estarossa never really had anything concrete going for him expect being so mysterious and stopping a Revenge Counter.But the Revenge counter feat got discounted when it was revealed that Mel was influenced by his commandment.

Zeldris on the other has numerous things going for him.
He is the DK's representative,he's stated to be the strongest after the DK himself(and assault mode Mel of course).
He possesses a portion of one of the most powerful magic in the series,he's the only other person besides assault mode Mel that's stated to be able to bust Mera's Dark Cocoon and even after seeing what 114k Escanor was capable of he was confident that he'd be able to take on the Sins when he activated his 2nd stage demon mark.And he isn't a character to bluff.


No.He flung it towards Zeldris.And Zel still managed to react.
So Nakaba just drew two drops falling into the water for no reason then? And both happen to be right next to each other? And after re reading the chapter again, your theory doesn't make sense because the trajectory isn't even possible. How could the sun skip on the water like that when it's way too far up to skip in the first place. Plus there's no steam so yeah

Dude you do realize that we have no idea when Mel fought Zel. He could’ve done it outside of assault mode and toyed with him. Do you have scans of an assault Mel vs Zeldris fight? Be real, Mel in Assault Mode took no effort to beat Zeldris. How is that any fun for him? He must’ve fought him outside the Mode or held back tremendously.

He still had hype even though he had no feats. I would know I was there when people were hyping him to oblivion.

Again youre wanking Zel. No one cares where he got his powers from. Mel flat out states it’s not enough anyways. What matters are his feats. When Escanor powered up Zel didn’t say “I’m gonna help” or “power up Estarossa” or “I’ll save you” he said run. Escanor just outclasses him from what we have literally seen instead of your non seeable assumptions. I mean you’re just assuming Zeldris casually gets 50K points of power. It took Mel thousands of years and a curse from the DK to get back to a state of that power.

Plus Mel was worried that something could happen to Zeldris if he lost his commandment. If Mel thinks that Zel relies on a commandment in addition to his strength, then that's saying something.
 
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HereNThere

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It's likely that Zeldris managed to pull Estarossa off of Cruel Sun and they both fell into the water before the explosion even hit landfall. It was moving at high speeds, but there wasn't a rippling effect that you'd usually see resulting from that. It didn't even look like it was anywhere near the water, seeing as how a path of steam wasn't shown trailing the surface of the water.

As for the Assault Mel thing, the series went out of it's way to not say which brother Mel was referring to. And while it was likely that it was Zeldris he was talking about, we don't know the circumstances of the fight. FKS translated his words as a "Brotherly fight" which could mean Mel was holding back against whichever brother he was going against. That being said, Mel's compliment does imply a slight respect of power. But it doesn't mean his level is confirmed to have been 114k.
 
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Meliodaf

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Escanor in 114k is far stronger than Zeldris.
And it would mean nothing if he gets kicked in the chest like Dolor did and gets his magic sealed. The answer to this question is always it depends
 

Bøjan

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And it would mean nothing if he gets kicked in the chest like Dolor did and gets his magic sealed. The answer to this question is always it depends
Well we don't know how strong Zeldris' magic seal is, but he won't get kicked like that since that only happened because Zeldris was physically stronger than Dolor.
 

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So Nakaba just drew two drops falling into the water for no reason then? And both happen to be right next to each other? And after re reading the chapter again, your theory doesn't make sense because the trajectory isn't even possible. How could the sun skip on the water like that when it's way too far up to skip in the first place. Plus there's no steam so yeah
What are you even talking about?
It doesn't need to skip on the water to create an effect.The sheer force of something with that mass moving at that speed would obviously affect the water.
There is also no "splash" sound effect so yeah.

Dude you do realize that we have no idea when Mel fought Zel. He could’ve done it outside of assault mode and toyed with him. Do you have scans of an assault Mel vs Zeldris fight? Be real, Mel in Assault Mode took no effort to beat Zeldris. How is that any fun for him? He must’ve fought him outside the Mode or held back tremendously.
Seems like you're reaching.
I'll take assault mode Mel word for it over yours.
And of course he'd no-diff 61k Zeldris.The dude wasn't utilising the 2nd stage of his demon mark.

He still had hype even though he had no feats. I would know I was there when people were hyping him to oblivion.
Yeah.Absolutely nothing concrete unlike Zeldris.
And again,I'm not speaking about the fans pov.I'm using what is told to us from the characters in-verse.

Again youre wanking Zel.
Well excuse me for holding Zeldris in a different light that isn't the same as your interpretation.

No one cares where he got his powers from.
It completely relevant here considering what it's capable of,so you should.
Mel flat out states it’s not enough anyways.
Lmao,114k Escanor=/=Assault mode Mel.That much should be obvious.
What matters are his feats. When Escanor powered up Zel didn’t say “I’m gonna help” or “power up Estarossa” or “I’ll save you” he said run.
This was before we saw his power capabilities or his advanced demon mark.In retrospect,it seems like nothing but pis/cis.
Escanor just outclasses him from what we have literally seen instead of your non seeable assumptions.
Are actually reading my posts? I already stated that he's below Escanor in terms of overall power.But he definitely isn't getting blitzed like you stated tho.
His abilities makes up for that for his lower physical capabilities.A curse or a magic seal and Escanor is pretty much done.

I mean you’re just assuming Zeldris casually gets 50K points of power. It took Mel thousands of years and a curse from the DK to get back to a state of that power.
I'm convinced you aren't reading what I post.I clearly said he's below 114k.I'm disagreeing with the fact that you think he's 75k at best.Also it's up to the author to determine how much of an increase a character will get to their pl.All we're doing is speculation and nothing either of us say is concrete facts.

Lul,if Mel wanted to regain his assault mode,he could've easily done so without needing 3000 years.He went from goofy,poker face Mel with a 3k powerlevel to a cold,savage Mel with a powerlevel of 142k within a month...lmao
He just delayed it as much as possible until the dragon handle got forcibly taken away from him.So more pis/cis

Plus Mel was worried that something could happen to Zeldris if he lost his commandment. If Mel thinks that Zel relies on a commandment in addition to his strength, then that's saying something.
Mel has no idea how many people from Stigma are heading to Camelot.His commandment isn't that vital that it would nerf him to the ground if it got taken away.
It would certainly help if numerous top tier Stigma members show up since he'd have to fight them on his own.
And,Zeldris already confirmed that he doesn't need it to fight at 100%.So why is this even being brought up as a pount against him?
 
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SkyJockey

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Sorry it's a bit off topic but do we know what Zel's innate magical power is? I know he has that ability called "God", but isn't that just the magical power lent to him by his father? Shouldn't he have his own ability?
 

Bøjan

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And of course he'd no-diff 61k Zeldris.The dude wasn't utilising the 2nd stage of his demon mark.
I'm disagreeing with the fact that you think he's 75k at best.
The thing is, Zeldris being more than 75k with the 2nd demon mark is an asspull, since his 1st demon mark is already 61k, it won't make sense for him to go that much higher with his 2nd demon mark.Also i'm not wanking but even if Zeldris used that 2nd mark it would've done absolutely nothing, 114k Escanor couldn't hurt Meliodas, so how would a (normal PL estimate) 75k Zeldris do anything better?
 

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What are you even talking about?
It doesn't need to skip on the water to create an effect.The sheer force of something with that mass moving at that speed would obviously affect the water.
There is also no "splash" sound effect so yeah.


Seems like you're reaching.
I'll take assault mode Mel word for it over yours.
And of course he'd no-diff 61k Zeldris.The dude wasn't utilising the 2nd stage of his demon mark.


Yeah.Absolutely nothing concrete unlike Zeldris.
And again,I'm not speaking about the fans pov.I'm using what is told to us from the characters in-verse.


Well excuse me for holding Zeldris in a different light that isn't the same as your interpretation.


It completely relevant here considering what it's capable of,so you should.

Lmao,114k Escanor=/=Assault mode Mel.That much should be obvious.

This was before we saw his power capabilities or his advanced demon mark.In retrospect,it seems like nothing but pis/cis.

Are actually reading my posts? I already stated that he's below Escanor in terms of overall power.But he definitely isn't getting blitzed like you stated tho.
His abilities makes up for that for his lower physical capabilities.A curse or a magic seal and Escanor is pretty much done.


I'm convinced you aren't reading what I post.I clearly said he's below 114k.I'm disagreeing with the fact that you think he's 75k at best.Also it's up to the author to determine how much of an increase a character will get to their pl.All we're doing is speculation and nothing either of us say is concrete facts.

Lul,if Mel wanted to regain his assault mode,he could've easily done so without needing 3000 years.He went from goofy,poker face Mel with a 3k powerlevel to a cold,savage Mel with a powerlevel of 142k within a month...lmao
He just delayed it as much as possible until the dragon handle got forcibly taken away from him.So more pis/cis


Mel has no idea how many people from Stigma are heading to Camelot.His commandment isn't that vital that it would nerf him to the ground if it got taken away.
It would certainly help if numerous top tier Stigma members show up since he'd have to fight them on his own.
And,Zeldris already confirmed that he doesn't need it to fight at 100%.So why is this even being brought up as a pount against him?
Again you can’t have that effect on the water. It’s too high up. Plus isn’t it funny how there’s only two of those splashes the entire time in spite of the fact that it traveled over the entire lake? Does the pattern magically stop because Nakaba forgot how to science?

Again, do you have any scans of the fight or are you just going to assume stuff? Because last time someone went off of hype quotes from another without fight feats. they ended up looking like Arthur. (Because they were Arthur)

I still can’t believe you would think that Zel causally gets around 40K point of magic with a basic mark. Do you know how absurd that sounds?

Also what POV? There’s very little information there.

Last chapter confirms that Mel thinks that Zel could potentially fall behind the AA without his commandment. That ends your argument about him being close to Escanor. Zel never states he doesn’t have to fight seriously.

Again you’re saying Zeldris though he is weaker cannot get blitzed, but then you go onto say that he can somehow touch Escanor. The only way Escanor was able to hit Mel was because Mel wasn’t even serious.

Mel got this power back because he spent 3000 years dying. Did you not read the manga? It’s already been stated. He couldn’t have done this without the curse.

Again Mel thinks that Zel could have issues wouthout his commandment against the 4AA. They are currently nerfed to a certain degree. Zel is stronger than them, but no by much according to Mel. Or are you just gonna pick and choose what Mel quotes matter. I didn’t know we had a professional Mel interpreter here
 
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Meliodaf

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Well we don't know how strong Zeldris' magic seal is, but he won't get kicked like that since that only happened because Zeldris was physically stronger than Dolor.
Let's be honest, stunting on Dolor ain't exactly a hard task.
I said it depends. Escanor from 10:00 am and back is certainly going to get kicked and his power sealed. I would think same would be true(maybe even more so) from 2:00 pm onward. And know stunting on Dolor isn't exactly difficult.
 

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Again you can’t have that effect on the water. It’s too high up. Plus isn’t it funny how there’s only two of those splashes the entire time in spite of the fact that it traveled over the entire lake? Does the pattern magically stop because Nakaba forgot how to science?

Again, do you have any scans of the fight or are you just going to assume stuff? Because last time someone went off of hype quotes from another without fight feats. they ended up looking like Arthur. (Because they were Arthur)

I still can’t believe you would think that Zel causally gets around 40K point of magic with a basic mark. Do you know how absurd that sounds?

Also what POV? There’s very little information there.

Last chapter confirms that Mel thinks that Zel could potentially fall behind the AA without his commandment. That ends your argument about him being close to Escanor. Zel never states he doesn’t have to fight seriously.

Again you’re saying Zeldris though he is weaker cannot get blitzed, but then you go onto say that he can somehow touch Escanor. The only way Escanor was able to hit Mel was because Mel wasn’t even serious.

Mel got this power back because he spent 3000 years dying. Did you not read the manga? It’s already been stated. He couldn’t have done this without the curse.

Again Mel thinks that Zel could have issues wouthout his commandment against the 4AA. They are currently nerfed to a certain degree. Zel is stronger than them, but no by much according to Mel. Or are you just gonna pick and choose what Mel quotes matter. I didn’t know we had a professional Mel interpreter here
I can't believe that some people compare Zeldoris to either Meliodas and Escanor.

Zeldoris can deal with any Escanor before the 11am or 11:30am version ( depend on which one was true ), basically, the one who dominated Estarossa badly.

Zeldoris is nothing compared to current AM Meliodas, he used the DK magic and it didn't do shit. that is what he finds " unbelievable and impossible " lmao.
He is at best 75-80K with that second mark. And that is being generous, Meliodas who is in base ( 60K ) is literally equal to him ( 61K ) with his regular Demon King.

Basically, the only characters who broke the 100K are: Meliodas, Escanor ( Mael ), DK, and SD so far in this manga.
 
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