Discussion Why Estarossa was able to kill Mael

[shadow22]

 

[OtakuFreak]

I understand why the first half of the post links into how Estarossa potentially killed Mael, but how does the rest besides the top comment/tumblr post have any relevance to this topic? I don't mean to be rude and may have interpreted this incorrectly, but I'm not seeing how the part I highlighted explains the reasoning behind Mael's death and Estarossa's circumstance in killing him. If it added to the explanation it would be acceptable but it's just information about Escanor that doesn't link whatsoever to the Mael situation. Could you explain it to me?

 

[Arjuna]

The title of the thread is quite misleading.

 

[Demonspeed]

Escanor is not Mael and should be powerless regardless of the hour. The picture we saw doesn't suggest that he got killed by surprise.

 

[OtakuFreak]

Escanor is not Mael and should be powerless regardless of the hour. The picture we saw doesn't suggest that he got killed by surprise.

But it was a back stab from the picture. Suggesting maybe Estarossa got the jump on Mael?

You'd think if it was a fair fight he would've made a hole in his chest from the front and not the back, whilst looking perfectly healthy.

Find it hard to believe it was a fair fight, when an AA is a huge threat to a commandment - and Esta looks perfectly healthy.

 

[Tragicdeath]

I think Mael got scared and tried to run away from Estarossa's overwhelming darkness. Unfortunately Estarossa got him so thats why hes a gonner.

 

[Raiyan]

I think the AA's are immune to the Commandments like Merlin As SD has power to give Immunity from it.

 

[Tragicdeath]

I think the AA's are immune to the Commandments like Merlin As SD has power to give Immunity from it.

I think it make sense though. I mean they are the elites of their respective factions. And I think it is fair for the king and queens to give them immunity where they have given it as a gift to lure the child who possesses infinity.

 

[Nudenun]

Find it hard to believe it was a fair fight, when an AA is a huge threat to a commandment - and Esta looks perfectly healthy.

Do you seriously think estarossa gives a damn about anyone but himself. Mael probably isnt a weakling like escanor at night. And in the chapter Mael was kinda muscular so im pretty sure estarossa finished the job quickly and did was not toying around

 

[titantron91]

Based on how Estarossa ended up against Escanor during their fight, it's very unlikely for Estarossa to beat Mael 1vs1 during daytime.

Thus, it's very likely that Estarossa was able to kill Mael during nighttime. Look at how easily Gloxinia one-shot Night Escanor.

It's also very likely that the Archangels are immune to Decrees. And since Escanor's Sunshine Pride prevented him from hating Estarossa, it should've done the same for Mael.

What confuses people about Mael's death are these:

1. The panel where it was revealed didn't show any dark sky or nighttime. Nothing directly implied that it was night.
2. Mael was not scrawny like Night Escanor. He looked like he was as muscular as any decent Holy Knight.
3. Estarossa looked like he just fodderized the strongest Archangel. This is okay if Mael was as feeble as Night Escanor, but Mael looked like he wasn't at Night Mode.
4. It seems like Mael's mortal wound was on his chest, making it seem like the attack was not an ambush.

Here are the possibilities that enabled Estarossa to easily kill Mael.

1. Mael fought Estarossa at late afternoon, with his PL probably dipping down to around 15K to 20K. In NNT, someone with 15K to 20K PL can actually be fodderized by someone with a 60K PL.
2. Mael was outnumbered. This can actual help Estarossa land a deathblow while Mael's preoccupied, even if it's head on.
3. Chandler at least was with Estarossa when they attacked Mael. They probably didn't know how Mael's powers worked. Chandler probably unknowingly shut Sunshine down.
4. Mael lost Sunshine before or during th fight for unknown reasons.

 

[shadow22]

Based on how Estarossa ended up against Escanor during their fight, it's very unlikely for Estarossa to beat Mael 1vs1 during daytime.

Thus, it's very likely that Estarossa was able to kill Mael during nighttime. Look at how easy Gloxinia oneshot Night Escanor.

It's also very likely that the Archangels are immune to Decrees. And since Escanor's Sunshine Pride prevented him from hating Estarossa, it should've done the same for Mael.

What confuses people about Mael's death are these:

1. The panel where it was revealed didn't show any dark sky or nighttime. Nothing directly implied that it was night.
2. Mael was not scrawny like Night Escanor. He looked like he was as muscular as any decent Holy Knight.
3. Estarossa looked like he just fodderized the strongest Archangel. This is okay if Mael was as feeble as Night Escanor, but Mael looked like he wasn't at Night Mode.
4. It seems like Mael's mortal wound was on his chest, making it seem like the attack was not an ambush.

Here are the possibilities that enabled Estarossa to easily kill Mael.

1. Mael fought Estarossa at late afternoon, with his PL probably dipping down to around 15K to 20K. In NNT, someon with 15K to 20K PL can actually be fodderized by someone with a 60K PL.
2. Mael was outnumbered. This can actual help Estarossa land a deathblow while Mael's preoccupied, even if it's head on.
3. Chandler at least was with Estarossa when they attacked Mael. They probably didn't know how Mael's powers worked. Chandler probably unknowingly shut Sunshine down.
4. Mael lost Sunshine before or during th fight for unknown reasons.

you say that escanors pride prevented hismelf from hating estarossa but that isnt true night escanor wouldn't have hated estarossa for that is his kind nature sunshine caused escanor to be more prideful and say that he doesnt hate those beneath him along with other boastful quotes but escanor without sunshine wouldnt have hated estarossa to quote
It’s been brought up by some characters and people before how Escanor’s night and day forms may be different consciousnesses, but I don’t agree with that. Hear me out here, because even though both of them have different temperaments, they both seem to recall the same things, feel the same emotions in different wavelengths and want similar things.

Example 1: their shared love for Merlin

Day!Escanor

Night!Escanor

Both clearly show, even from just these few bits, an intense adoration for Merlin and a desire for her to let them know how the fruits of their labor resonates with her. Be he prideful and going on about his strength or succumbing to the negativities of his power, he always strides to Merlin.

Example 2: Gowther

Day!Escanor

Night!Escanor

Both of these instances show Escanor has some sort of camaraderie with Gowther. Even in his day form, where he’s been known to decimate his enemies without a bit of remorse for his actions, he shows reluctance in the idea of fighting him, as he only takes his glasses so he can’t inhibit him from carrying out what he’s decided is his duty: taking down those who have stringed everyone along into a festival where murder is the main option. He’d only know this through Night!Escanor’s experiences.

Conclusion: Based on these two instances, although there is more I could post, Day!Escanor and Night!Escanor share the same consciousness and both are two extremes of the same coin due to Escanor’s experiences growing up and how he was shunned for his body’s attributes.



@titantron91

 

[titantron91]

you say that escanors pride prevented hismelf from hating estarossa but that isnt true night escanor wouldn't have hated estarossa for that is his kind nature sunshine caused escanor to be more prideful and say that he doesnt hate those beneath him along with other boastful quotes but escanor without sunshine wouldnt have hated estarossa to quote
It’s been brought up by some characters and people before how Escanor’s night and day forms may be different consciousnesses, but I don’t agree with that. Hear me out here, because even though both of them have different temperaments, they both seem to recall the same things, feel the same emotions in different wavelengths and want similar things.

Example 1: their shared love for Merlin

Day!Escanor

Night!Escanor

Both clearly show, even from just these few bits, an intense adoration for Merlin and a desire for her to let them know how the fruits of their labor resonates with her. Be he prideful and going on about his strength or succumbing to the negativities of his power, he always strides to Merlin.

Example 2: Gowther

Day!Escanor

Night!Escanor

Both of these instances show Escanor has some sort of camaraderie with Gowther. Even in his day form, where he’s been known to decimate his enemies without a bit of remorse for his actions, he shows reluctance in the idea of fighting him, as he only takes his glasses so he can’t inhibit him from carrying out what he’s decided is his duty: taking down those who have stringed everyone along into a festival where murder is the main option. He’d only know this through Night!Escanor’s experiences.

Conclusion: Based on these two instances, although there is more I could post, Day!Escanor and Night!Escanor share the same consciousness and both are two extremes of the same coin due to Escanor’s experiences growing up and how he was shunned for his body’s attributes.



@titantron91

Good eye! Could this be a side effect of Sunshine? Like it makes the host's personality somewhat bipolar but not dissociative?
If this is so, then Escanor's natural character makes him immune to Estarossa's Love commandment.

Do you think Mael fell victim to Estarossa's commandment by expressing hatred? Do you think AA's are not immune to commandments?

 

[Tragicdeath]

Estarossa killed Mael because hes stronger than him plain and simple. Sariel and Tarmiel are now digging their own graves going up against Estarossa.

 

[titantron91]

Estarossa killed Mael because hes stronger than him plain and simple. Sariel and Tarmiel are now digging their own graves going up against Estarossa.

Stronger than a Sunshine user's weak version. That's all he is and that's all he'll ever be. "Plain and simple."

 

[Tragicdeath]

Stronger than a Sunshine user's weak version. That's all he is and that's all he'll ever be. "Plain and simple."

Haha. How you say those things where in fact youre not sure of what Mael's capability is.lol. Like youre making your presumptive assumption facts which is funny.lol. But anyway, im convinced on this chapter that Estarossa killed Mael at least on his powerful state and could also be a case in his strongest state. You dont need to be a scientist on how their conversation went because neither of Sar and Tar mentioned "yes you killed our strongest member but it wasnt even in his powerful state." I will tell you in advance Sar and Tar will go down, mark my word and I will remember your name and will tag you i told you so.haha

 

[OtakuFreak]

Haha. How you say those things where in fact youre not sure of what Mael's capability is.lol. Like youre making your presumptive assumption facts which is funny.lol. But anyway, im convinced on this chapter that Estarossa killed Mael at least on his powerful state and could also be a case in his strongest state. You dont need to be a scientist on how their conversation went because neither of Sar and Tar mentioned "yes you killed our strongest member but it wasnt even in his powerful state." I will tell you in advance Sar and Tar will go down, mark my word and I will remember your name and will tag you i told you so.haha

Your argument is really weak. You can't suggest that he defeated the strongest Mael with a "well the Archangels didn't say anything". You need to have actual proof from the manga which suggests it it to be the case but you have nothing to do so.

It's pretty obvious that Estarossa defeated a weakened Mael, just look at how Escanor destroyed him, who is weaker in every sense to Mael.

 

[SOW]

Your argument is really weak. You can't suggest that he defeated the strongest Mael with a "well the Archangels didn't say anything". You need to have actual proof from the manga which suggests it it to be the case but you have nothing to do so.

It's pretty obvious that Estarossa defeated a weakened Mael, just look at how Escanor destroyed him, who is weaker in every sense to Mael.

i also agree, ludociel said that when it reached noon (possibly The One), not even he can can compete with it. and the presence of sunshine (escanor) was strong enough to make ludociel think of Mael, and to add that when he sensed the power he nearly jumped out of his skin, and rushed over there to escanor.

 

[kkck]

I think this comes down to sunshine to be honest. And the fact that estarosa did not recognize it on the spot when he faced escanor.

Mael for whatever reason gave up his sunshine. If sunshine behaves like other commandments then it makes sense to think it would have remained in mael's body when he died. In which case it could have been recovered by goddesses and thus given to someone else unless of course estarosa took the corpse. But it doesn't seem like the grace was recovered after mael died which evidences mael not having it.

Anyways, mael probably gave up his grace to someone and then for some reason it was lost. As for whom he would give it to or why... Who knows. Specially if it then somehow ended up lost. It'd be interesting if he wanted to give it to elizabeth so that she could become supreme goddess and put an end to the war.

 

[afromarco005]

Knowing nakaba the reason why Mael lost might not at all be related to his strenght, maybe he was suicidal like kaido wanting to die so that he would not wear the burden of the goddess clan's expectations as their champion and constant stress that is related to his archangel status, or maybe he was in an unrequited love situation with estaross and could not bring himself to harm him and let himself be killed rather than live in a world without him.

No matter the situation I find it odd that his regenerative powers didnt activate after Estarossa wounded him seeing how badly Sariel and Tarmiel could be punished without dying and in a human host body

 

[titantron91]

Knowing nakaba the reason why Mael lost might not at all be related to his strenght, maybe he was suicidal like kaido wanting to die so that he would not wear the burden of the goddess clan's expectations as their champion and constant stress that is related to his archangel status, or maybe he was in an unrequited love situation with estaross and could not bring himself to harm him and let himself be killed rather than live in a world without him.

No matter the situation I find it odd that his regenerative powers didnt activate after Estarossa wounded him seeing how badly Sariel and Tarmiel could be punished without dying and in a human host body

Dayum that's some bishie yaoi shits.

Yep. You're right. There were so many things Nakaba showed that implied that there was never a fight to begin with.
It's as if Mael willingly had himself killed and Estarossa was just too dumb to realize it.
His Ark regeneration was turned off.
He had one fatal wound on the chest and no signs of other injuries or dirty clothes (implying that he was oneshotted and not beaten like a dog)
If stronger versions of Estarossa can't even put down any of the two weakest Archangels in a time-restricted fight, there's absolutely no way Estarossa can beat Mael in a fight. Especially when even Sariel and Tarmiel strongly believe that Estarossa cannot beat Mael any time of the day, even nighttime.