Spoiler Akatsuki no Yona Spoiler & Chapter Discussion

[SamuelDean]

Like I said, I don't think Yona was referring to one incident that made Yu-Hon lose the throne, I think she was referring to his mentality and morality to do it after defeating an enemy, and that mentality might have been applied in different situations.

I doubt he was power hungry, but that doesn't mean he was stable mentally, or thought of ways to solve things without extreme violence. So far whatever we have heard about Yu-Hon was extreme violence.

Yu-Hon believed in mainly violent methods to exert control, whereas Il believed in completely non-violent methods. They were both extreme and not fit to be king according to the manga so far, and I think I'll only change my opinion if we find out more.

Their kids on the other hand have the leadership skills and sense that that their parents were short on. I think Soo-Won idolises Yu-Hon wayy to much to realise this, but I hope he gets a proper revelation soon. Yona has already kind of accepted that Il was a bad king.

I think it is not that easy that everybody that is cruel or commits cruel deeds has to be crazy.
As far as we could see this person was not instable in any way.

 

[Mini_kinkin]

I think it is not that easy that everybody that is cruel or commits cruel deeds has to be crazy.
As far as we could see this person was not instable in any way.

Dumping heads for no reason seems very unstable according to me. You guys insist there is a reason, but the manga doesn't show a reason, which makes me believe that he really did it for no reason.

Similarly being paranoid about not using weapons at all without any reason, while the country rots away and because of some beliefs also seems to be a sign of instability.

So I conclude that both Yu-Hon and Il were not fit to be king at all, and would both be considered mentally unstable in some way or the other.

 

[lindananahayashida]

@lindananahayashida I'm afraid it may end up like you say, but I still strongly hope that it won't. Until the Xing Arc (well, maybe the Forts Arc), the author had shown a considerable skill, so she should be able to write a better ending than a cliche with Yona remaining totally unchallenged in her judgment.

i think most author lose their touch once the series goes on for too long.. i mean.. even the author is human.. n its probably not fair for us to ask her that she doesn't slack off here n there..

n most dragged out good stories has has struggled with ending..

but yeah.. id definitely like a good ending! with soo won finally getting over his guilt.. yona finally not thinking of won as a bad person anymore.. n they are able to talk normally.. hak x yona..

id personally like lily to be wons friend.. because.. won is the type of person who needs a friend he can share his feelings with(because he hasnt been able to uptil now).. not a lover tbh.. but its a shoujo..

 

[SamuelDean]

Dumping heads for no reason seems very unstable according to me. You guys insist there is a reason, but the manga doesn't show a reason, which makes me believe that he really did it for no reason.

Similarly being paranoid about not using weapons at all without any reason, while the country rots away and because of some beliefs also seems to be a sign of instability.

So I conclude that both Yu-Hon and Il were not fit to be king at all, and would both be considered mentally unstable in some way or the other.

We don t know the reason why he did it, that doesn t mean he had no reason to do it. I am pretty sure that Kouren who hated Soo Won for no other reason than he was Yu hon s son was not interested why he did that.
Soo Won even mentioned that it would depend on the circumstances, which points rather that there was a reason. Cruelty doesn t mean automatically that a person is not mentally stable.

You cannot conclude something if you have too few information about a topic.

 

[lindananahayashida]

Dumping heads for no reason seems very unstable according to me. You guys insist there is a reason, but the manga doesn't show a reason, which makes me believe that he really did it for no reason.

Similarly being paranoid about not using weapons at all without any reason, while the country rots away and because of some beliefs also seems to be a sign of instability.

So I conclude that both Yu-Hon and Il were not fit to be king at all, and would both be considered mentally unstable in some way or the other.

first.. it wasnt dumping heads for no reason.. they were captured during war.. probably enemy soldiers that killed many kouka citizen n soldiers.. so that point is just biased.. to me at least..

also someone who has a sense of duty to visit his ill son makes it clear that when it comes to dealing with their responsibility.. yu-hon is better than king ll.. you fant honestly tell me tjat king ll was so busy that he couldn't visit yona when yu-hon could.. a king who lets his people go hungry while staying in castle eating nice food & also gives up lands to secure his position.. has absolutely nothing to do that could keep him busy for a whole day..

lets be honest here.. you cant compare yu-hon with king ll.

a person doesn't get respected by the likes of gun-yae soo won n the whole nation by being unstable..

 

[Mini_kinkin]

We don t know the reason why he did it, that doesn t mean he had no reason to do it. I am pretty sure that Kouren who hated Soo Won for no other reason than he was Yu hon s son was not interested why he did that.
Soo Won even mentioned that it would depend on the circumstances, which points rather that there was a reason. Cruelty doesn t mean automatically that a person is not mentally stable.

You cannot conclude something if you have too few information about a topic.

I will conclude this until there is an actual explanation in the manga.

first.. it wasnt dumping heads for no reason.. they were captured during war.. probably enemy soldiers that killed many kouka citizen n soldiers.. so that point is just biased.. to me at least..

also someone who has a sense of duty to visit his ill son makes it clear that when it comes to dealing with their responsibility.. yu-hon is better than king ll.. you fant honestly tell me tjat king ll was so busy that he couldn't visit yona when yu-hon could.. a king who lets his people go hungry while staying in castle eating nice food & also gives up lands to secure his position.. has absolutely nothing to do that could keep him busy for a whole day..

lets be honest here.. you cant compare yu-hon with king ll.

a person doesn't get respected by the likes of gun-yae soo won n the whole nation by being unstable..

Il visited Yona though...he made food for her also.

So far the manga shows Yu-Hon as a cruel person, who primarily used violence. In those days, those with more strength were respected more by the men around them, but that doesn't mean he was better than Il, or that he was entirely stable, in one swoop he threw out/killed all the priests (including children such as Ik-Soo who is actually a very good person) in the country, dumped heads and these are only the things we know. I still say they are equally bad.

Just because Soo-Won is a good person, it doesn't automatically mean Yu-Hon should be a good person as well. In the case of Yona and Il, we all know Yona is a really good person but Il sucks.

 

[@Aylinn]

I am only trying to say that it is super naive to think that Yu-hon would lose the throne just because he dumped the heads of the enemies. By no means I am arguing that Yu-hon is a crystal clear person.

In other words I think that Yona’s assumption is wrong and there was another reason for which Yu-hon lost the throne or rather there should be, because this one sounds inane. However, I admit that this being a shoujo story it can very well turn out to be true.

As for the priests, I think we have had the discussion many times before that we don’t know if Il was actually against throwing them away and that the fact he did nothing to restore priesthood suggests that he either agreed or was indifferent at the very least. Not to mention that Yu-hon could not have thrown away the priests from his father’s palace without his father’s consent.

Besides, while Yu-hon may not have been a perfect king, he might have very well ended up doing a much better job than Il, since Il didn’t set the bar high.

 

[lindananahayashida]

I will conclude this until there is an actual explanation in the manga.



Il visited Yona though...he made food for her also.

So far the manga shows Yu-Hon as a cruel person, who primarily used violence. In those days, those with more strength were respected more by the men around them, but that doesn't mean he was better than Il, or that he was entirely stable, in one swoop he threw out/killed all the priests (including children such as Ik-Soo who is actually a very good person) in the country, dumped heads and these are only the things we know. I still say they are equally bad.

Just because Soo-Won is a good person, it doesn't automatically mean Yu-Hon should be a good person as well. In the case of Yona and Il, we all know Yona is a really good person but Il sucks.

we do know gun-tae.. while he respects strong leaders.. he also showed that he doesnt like heinous things.. when he said how felt disgusted fighting a former comrade.. that means.. he has his moral code.. so while we dont know mich about yu-hon.. we know about gun-tae.. so him respecting yu-hon says something.. also.. he compared soo won with yu-hon while complementing soo won.. if he said in some ways soo won is better than yu-hon.. means yu-hon at least had those qualities.. just not on par with soo won..n that complement included soo wons strength (in leading army) n intelligence..

also.. while i agree that yu-hon might not be completely stable.. but theres a difference between unstable n not being completely stable..

also.. you said killed the priest.. since ik-soo was alive it pretty much proves he only drived them outside the castle.. which i believe is a good thing.. i agree with soo won that if a heaven that only watches.. theres no need to rule a country with their words.. n yu-hon did a good thing.. a blind trust.. while may bring some good things.. most of it is harmful.. just like gobi.. he is a perfect example of what blind trust does..

again.. you are being biased against yu-hon..

n no.. so far we do know that yu-hon was stronger.. more responsible.. less lustful towards throne n more intelligent than king ll.. also while being more aggressive than king ll as well..

yes king ll came. but way later.. while yu-hon who obviously was more initiative towards his work made time.. so far we have seen yu-hon going outside castle.. if we go by your logic that we can only include what we have seen.. then king ll never went outside his precious castle.. means he had no real trouble to see his daughter for a whole day..

my point was not king ll didnt come.. my point was yu-hon took his responsibility ( kids are parents responsibility) more seriously tha king ll did.. maybe i shouldve worded it differently..

also.. giving bad fod to a sick person.. n letting her eatit even after knowing its not good/healthy food.. might seem very emotional n all.. but shows how he is utter trash when it comes to handling responsibility.. n i dont believe a cook will keep sleeping if the king orders to make food for the princess..

i never said soo won being a good person makes yu-hon a good person as well tho?! o.O

what i said was.. to gain respect from a person as logical as soo won.. n a good experienced general like gun-tae.. you have to have extra ordinary abilities..

i wouldnt say king ll sucks.. he is a great human being.. in fact he will make a very good citizen for any country.. just not good leader.. as for yona.. she is neither as good human as king ll.. or as skilled as soo won.. she is more of a balanced human being..

 

[Mini_kinkin]

Geun-tea is your typical manly man who respects strength above anything else, just like how typical it was in those days to respect strength above anything else. So I don't know about his judgement.

wouldnt say king ll sucks.. he is a great human being.. in fact he will make a very good citizen for any country.

I really think we will get some revelations that will show King Il as a pyscho or a fanatic. Why else would he hide Yona away in the castle all those years even though he knew she is Hiryuu? Waiting for those moments to be revealed

As for the priests, I think we have had the discussion many times before that we don’t know if Il was actually against throwing them away and that the fact he did nothing to restore priesthood suggests that he either agreed or was indifferent at the very least. Not to mention that Yu-hon could not have thrown away the priests from his father’s palace without his father’s consent.

We'll see about this. Il seems to be a fanatic and lover of Hiryuu, so I don't see why he would throw the priests away.

Anyhow, in my opinion, one way to help these three (Yona, Hak and Soo-Won) reconcile is making them aware how the previous generation completely screwed it up. This means, making both the kids realise that their parents were wrong, and not the best people. Showing both parents as wrong would be better in my opinion than showing Yu-Hon as some saviour, while he was painted as someone cruel the whole manga.

I am only trying to say that it is super naive to think that Yu-hon would lose the throne just because he dumped the heads of the enemies. By no means I am arguing that Yu-hon is a crystal clear person.

The point I am trying to make is...I don't think Yona meant that it is this ONE specific incident that made him lose the throne, it is most likely his overall mentality that did.

 

[lindananahayashida]

Geun-tea is your typical manly man who respects strength above anything else, just like how typical it was in those days to respect strength above anything else. So I don't know about his judgement.



I really think we will get some revelations that will show King Il as a pyscho or a fanatic. Why else would he hide Yona away in the castle all those years even though he knew she is Hiryuu? Waiting for those moments to be revealed.

gun-tae is not really typical.. in fact he is someone with most experience after soo-jin passed away.. he faught in joo-nams era if i remember correctly..

also.. not only that.. he said he felt bad for fire tribe..(the enemy in that battle) so.. someone who could feeo bad for the enemy being used.. surely would feel bad if they were beheaded without any reason as well.. but he never said anything negative about yu-hon..

about king ll.. i dont agree with you.. while i believe he has lust for power..(thats exactly why he wanted to put someone who matches his ideals in throne n not soo won).. but someone who doesnt kill cant be psychopath.. n from my point of view you are over analyzing..

he is jsut a bad ruler who cant take strict actions for the country.. n thinks as humanity.. he lacks patriotism.. a quality a king must have.. n a king must be biased if its for the countrys sake..

for someone who thinks humanity as a whole.. can be a good citizen.. a good human being.. father.. husband.. family.. just not a ruler..

 

[Mini_kinkin]

gun-tae is not really typical.. in fact he is someone with most experience after soo-jin passed away.. he faught in joo-nams era if i remember correctly..

also.. not only that.. he said he felt bad for fire tribe..(the enemy in that battle) so.. someone who could feeo bad for the enemy being used.. surely would feel bad if they were beheaded without any reason as well.. but he never said anything negative about yu-hon..

Let's agree to disagree here. I still see everyone respecting Yu-Hon because of his strength.

about king ll.. i dont agree with you.. while i believe he has lust for power..(thats exactly why he wanted to put someone who matches his ideals in throne n not soo won).. but someone who doesnt kill cant be psychopath.. n from my point of view you are over analyzing..

he is jsut a bad ruler who cant take strict actions for the country.. n thinks as humanity.. he lacks patriotism.. a quality a king must have.. n a king must be biased if its for the countrys sake..

for someone who thinks humanity as a whole.. can be a good citizen.. a good human being.. father.. husband.. family.. just not a ruler..

Here is where I feel Kusa will really blow us all away. Il is slowly shown to be a fanatic, it is possible he kept Yona hidden away because of this. Also the way he looked at Soo-Won in the mausoleum of Hiryu...certainly seemed crazy to look at a child like that. There will surely be some interesting revelations.

 

[SamuelDean]

I will conclude this until there is an actual explanation in the manga..

You cannot conclude something if you have not sufficient information about it, but you can assume something and that is legit. We have too few information about that topic, that is why we are not able to conclude anything.

we do know gun-tae.. while he respects strong leaders.. he also showed that he doesnt like heinous things.. when he said how felt disgusted fighting a former comrade.. that means.. he has his moral code.. so while we dont know mich about yu-hon.. we know about gun-tae.. so him respecting yu-hon says something.. also.. he compared soo won with yu-hon while complementing soo won.. if he said in some ways soo won is better than yu-hon.. means yu-hon at least had those qualities.. just not on par with soo won..n that complement included soo wons strength (in leading army) n intelligence..

also.. while i agree that yu-hon might not be completely stable.. but theres a difference between unstable n not being completely stable..

also.. you said killed the priest.. since ik-soo was alive it pretty much proves he only drived them outside the castle.. which i believe is a good thing.. i agree with soo won that if a heaven that only watches.. theres no need to rule a country with their words.. n yu-hon did a good thing.. a blind trust.. while may bring some good things.. most of it is harmful.. just like gobi.. he is a perfect example of what blind trust does..

again.. you are being biased against yu-hon..

n no.. so far we do know that yu-hon was stronger.. more responsible.. less lustful towards throne n more intelligent than king ll.. also while being more aggressive than king ll as well..

yes king ll came. but way later.. while yu-hon who obviously was more initiative towards his work made time.. so far we have seen yu-hon going outside castle.. if we go by your logic that we can only include what we have seen.. then king ll never went outside his precious castle.. means he had no real trouble to see his daughter for a whole day..

my point was not king ll didnt come.. my point was yu-hon took his responsibility ( kids are parents responsibility) more seriously tha king ll did.. maybe i shouldve worded it differently..

also.. giving bad fod to a sick person.. n letting her eatit even after knowing its not good/healthy food.. might seem very emotional n all.. but shows how he is utter trash when it comes to handling responsibility.. n i dont believe a cook will keep sleeping if the king orders to make food for the princess..

i never said soo won being a good person makes yu-hon a good person as well tho?! o.O

what i said was.. to gain respect from a person as logical as soo won.. n a good experienced general like gun-tae.. you have to have extra ordinary abilities..

i wouldnt say king ll sucks.. he is a great human being.. in fact he will make a very good citizen for any country.. just not good leader.. as for yona.. she is neither as good human as king ll.. or as skilled as soo won.. she is more of a balanced human being..

I agree that the trust of the people of Kouka in Yu hon at least points to the possibility that he was not mad, likely cruel, but not a mad man.

Anyhow, in my opinion, one way to help these three (Yona, Hak and Soo-Won) reconcile is making them aware how the previous generation completely screwed it up. This means, making both the kids realise that their parents were wrong, and not the best people. Showing both parents as wrong would be better in my opinion that showing Yu-Hon as some saviour, while he was painted as someone cruel the whole manga.

I think that your idea is wonderful and I had the same thoughts, but I don t think that they have to be completely wrong in their way. I think that Yu hon s wish to protect his country wasn t wrong, nor was it King Il s wish for a peaceful kingdom.

Nevertheless...if they could see and understand the failures of the past generation, then it would be a sweet conclusion to this manga ( at least in my opinion.)

 

[lindananahayashida]

Let's agree to disagree here. I still see everyone respecting Yu-Hon because of his strength.



Here is where I feel Kusa will really blow us all away. Il is slowly shown to be a fanatic, it is possible he kept Yona hidden away because of this. Also the way he looked at Soo-Won in the mausoleum of Hiryu...certainly seemed crazy to look at a child like that. There will surely be some interesting revelations.

i dont mind.. it i definitely believe yu-hon was a very good leader to win so many battles in other words.. very intelligent..

idk i dont really agree with that.. even joon-ji who is only a general kept his daughter locked along with her bodyguards for going outside at an older age.. its obvious a princess will be taken care of more strictly.. specially after the queen was killed.. n the hiryuu things there as well..

about soo won.. i always got the idea that.. either won is somehow related to hiryuu prophecy.. or ll just wanted won to be just a regular ignorant citizen.. he probably thought it would be bad if won gathers more knowledge n someday finds out about his deeds.. that he killed his brother.. n its obvious he wanted to be in control of the throne even after he retired.. as he wanted someone else of his preference to be king n not someone like won who is clearly more Worthy to be king than hak (it seemed like ll liked yona calling hak her love interest as kids)..

i dont think theres any deeper meaning to it..

n one more reason.. woud be.. after being king.. won would've definitely found out about yu-hon.. thus ll might've been scared that won might take his anger out on yona.. thats why ll wanting soo won as far as possible fron yona..

 

[@Aylinn]

The point I am trying to make is...I don't think Yona meant that it is this ONE specific incident that made him lose the throne, it is most likely his overall mentality that did.

Ok, but I still don’t think that we have enough information to conclude it, especially since we have a scene where Yu-hon shows a lot of calmness after it turns out that he will not be the King. A situation in which many others would probably be far less calm and far less happy.

If Yona assumed that Yu-hon had a certain type of mentality based on one incident, then her assumption would not be worth much. She does not have enough information to judge and I doubt that she knew and remembers her uncle so well to pass such a judgement.

Besides, we don’t know if Joo-Nam had such a problem with violence. We know that Yu-hon was victorious in many wars, but Joo-Nam must have agreed to them in the first place, which would suggest that he didn't have such a problem with violence.

 

[lindananahayashida]

one thing that bugs me is.. soo won being 11th king..

if hiryuu was or his son was first king.. n he lived even 1k year ago let alone 2k.. did each ruler ruled 100 years?! do they live that long?! o.O even so.. king ll era didnt even last 35 years.. as gun-tae faught in joo-nams era n now its soo won.. even if we were to consider gun-tae faught from the day he was born..(lol!) king ll ruled less than 35 years.. how the hell did that happen?!

or am i wrong soo won being 11th king?! n remembering something weird??

 

[@Aylinn]

@lindananahayashida I think he was called the 11th king of the Sky Tribe, which seems to suggest that other Tribes might have ruled earlier.

 

[Mini_kinkin]

You cannot conclude something if you have not sufficient information about it, but you can assume something and that is legit. We have too few information about that topic, that is why we are not able to conclude anything.

Well, I guess "conclude" may not be the right word. Maybe formulating my opinion based on info in the manga so far. It might change if we get more info on the same.

--- Double Post Merged, May 30, 2018, Original Post Date: May 30, 2018 ---

This is a very interesting panel:

http://fanfox.net/manga/akatsuki_no_yona/v27/c158/10.html

Pretty much explains about the tribes and their leaders.

And here you go, consequences like all of you wanted:

http://fanfox.net/manga/akatsuki_no_yona/v27/c158/19.html

Fire Tribe going crazy over Yona and she never wanted that.

Divine punishment, oh shit:

http://fanfox.net/manga/akatsuki_no_yona/v27/c158/28.html

Kouka citizens have always seemed so simple minded and easily swayed from the start lol. Poor Yona and Soo-Won have to deal with them.

Omg whole chapter 158 is awesome. The drama intensifies.

 

[SamuelDean]

It s interesting indeed. So it seems that Ju do was against King Il s politics before Hak became Yona s bodyguard.

I just laughed when Yona told Ogi about the many people who hated Yu hon. That are up until now only people of Xing and the priests of Kouka.

 

[Mini_kinkin]

It s interesting indeed. So it seems that Ju do was against King Il s politics before Hak became Yona s bodyguard.

Yes, I always had the impression Ju-Doh never liked Il anyway, right from the start. That's why he placed his trust in Soo-Won.

Another thing that's interesting is the panel where Jae-Ha remembers how the dragons were captured before, comparing it to now. All HBB wanted was to around and help people, now that Yona has revealed herself, they are bound to be crazies everywhere who want them

--- Double Post Merged, May 30, 2018, Original Post Date: May 30, 2018 ---

I just laughed when Yona told Ogi about the many people who hated Yu hon. That are up until now only people of Xing and the priests of Kouka.

But she only mentioned about Xing here, didn't imply more people: http://fanfox.net/manga/akatsuki_no_yona/v27/c158/13.html

 

[@Aylinn]

But she only mentioned about Xing here, didn't imply more people: http://fanfox.net/manga/akatsuki_no_yona/v27/c158/13.html

The thing is that she words it as if she understood why Yu-hon was not made the King after learning what he did in Xing, which makes no sense.

Why the fact that Xing people didn't like him should have influenced whether or not he would have become the King of Kouka? It makes no sense that he did not become the King, because the neighbouring country didn't like him.

To tell the truth the more I read this manga, the more it becomes obvious that Kusanagi has no idea how politics work. She makes autocracy/oligarchy from the past work as if it were modern democracy with which I suppose she has more experience so that’s probably why.