Good point Id say Sar would be below Elizabeth because hes like glox without magic they are nothing. But Ludo and Mael as well as Tar I think might be a different scenario.
-Elizabeth is awakened to her identity as a goddess, she remains a "cursed goddess to a human form etc";
-there's no need for a verbal statement about her power, Nakaba has shown it twice in the canon coloured artwork since her awakening, since, triskele aside, she still has eyes of different colours when activating her power, whereas in her goddess form they were of the same colour.
That visual split is stereotypical to at the very least shounen stories to imply either
a) partial awakening( but that is not the case, she got her curse triggering memories of her past lives and access to her abilities), or
b) lack of control of her power( again, it's not much of a case, since ever she awakened she's successfully applied her abilities/skills, granted, she hasn't had to do so in too dire circumstances);
c)or the likeliest option, she doesn't have all of her power available as a goddess, since she's bound in a human physical form, lacking her wings(which by Word of God are markers of power development for the GC) and with an incomplete change of her eyes when her power is in use, and the most glaring thing of all, under punishment.
Considering how much the demons complain about the Goddesses brainwashing people and whatever else they can do, it makes sense if the DK was the one to punish her to also deprive her of access to all of her power. That much doesn't really need stating, it's one of the typical shonen tropes for characters that started their existence in a high position in their respective universe, it's happened to Meliodas, though maybe differently from a technical standpoint. Not to mention that all of the mains(excuse me if I omit the usual comic relief and mascot) have had to either reveal/recover all their power gradually, or achieve it likewise. In no way is this form of Elizabeth the same( power wise) as her original goddess form.
Hikari Are was seen doing 2 things:
1)debuffing Monspeet and Derrieri from their Indura forbidden technique, it still counts as a disarming skill, leaving room to offense hard or impossible to block...
2) and, at Corrand,sending the corrupted souls controlling Diane forcibly to the afterlife or wherever they went, which counts as a killing blow, the souls were purified and eliminated from Britannia's plane of existence.
Tranquilize also counts as a debuffer, it took away all the PoD fueling Melascula's actions as a fighter, deprived her of access to her humanoid form and Elizabeth did that to her without breaking a sweat, while in her limited form, as others said.
Also, please don't forget that before she even awoke to her true identity, she dispelled whatever Zeldris cast on Merlin, it got her tired, but it still worked against magic of superior quality(royal demon) from a TC with 61k PL. So whatever PL she may have now and may have had as a goddess, even her type of magic(main ability) must be of a highly different quality to the AAs we know to make up for what I expect to be a quite glaring difference in PL between her current form and TCs of 50k+ PL.
These along with her feat against Derrieri in 188(which counts as clear offense) and the fact that the ark she added to her slap improved the momentum(?) and knocked Meliodas off his feet while knowing his physical prowess. With or without the element of surprise, even I was shocked that it did more than comically turn his face to the side or bounced off.
Also, why are you using Zaratras and Hendy as examples?! Zaratras used a life sacrificing version to simply extract a different, superior powerwise, life-form from his host, but that exchange was still one VS one and he was physically latched to Dreyfus/Fraudrin, in a way he couldn't have been rapidly shaken off, goddess Elizabeth was also dealing with direct pressure from 2 Induras(head-on) which she was handling pretty well while they were still in phase 1 and she a non-physical fighter.
Hendy's employments of Purge only help exemplify its use as debuffer or finishing blow( on lesser demons), as for the power reference, remind me why does it matter the magic power difference when it was used on the kind of energy you not so long ago were claiming it had no bearing on the demons' MP?! Hendy's Purge didn't work at all on Fraudrin, Elizabeth's Hikari Are had to be desperately opposed through the amplification of their PoD by the 2 Indura, she clearly was surpassing both in something, pick your poison.
As for that page example, many of you are reading it backwards if we're to trust that translation: Tarmiel is not surprised they're starting to repress her, since they had been overwhelming the 2 AAs. But that phrasing only tells us they admitted that she was expected to still require(by herself) more effort from the opponents to fight off than the 2 of them combined(with all their military experience and raw power). They acknowledged her superiority to both of them, while not falling into the extreme of believing her too far above, she's admittedly, by all parties here, inexperienced when compared to them. However, even as a noob to war...as a goddess, she's still in Ludociel's PL range(the whole wings size/number debacle) and has some abilities of pretty high potency and effect, even when she can't be backed up by very high MP(I doubt her human form's PL changed from 1925...at least, it didn't jump high... till the moment she recovered her memory)
There's also still that feat with dispelling whatever Zeldris cast on Merlin when he attacked her, that was before Elizabeth had recovered her memories. Merlin may have had some resistance due to the blessings(though I'm not so sure they're perfectly working), but it still put her in a coma and was gradually consuming her. So, without having a conscious grasp of her abilities, Elizabeth still used them on magic cast by Zeldris, and I suppose it's safe to say that "curse" was enabled by his "God" ability.
Regarding your suggestion that "Ludoshel could've told (her) to get out of the way", actually, I have to correct you, were she inferior to them powerwise, they would've put her back in that Ark shield, shoved her aside("for your own safety, lady Elizabeth") then proceeded with confronting the Indura and maybe Mel, or just the Indura, cause Mel would've likely prioritised retrieving Elizabeth. Hell, if she wasn't deemed highly competent, they would've never let the dainty flower out of the Celestial Realm and onto the battlefields of Britannia. Cause she wasn't relegated to healing, they wouldn't abide diplomacy with the demons, so I don't see why else they'd let a royal unable to fend for herself out on the violent battlefields.
Oh boy.
Has nothing to do with combat ability.
That is a painfully massive over-exaggeration, and you know it.
Has nothing to do with combat ability.
Has nothing to do with combat ability.
I don’t understand what you’re even trying to say here.
Yep.
That’s a massive painfully over exaggeration and you know it.
Dont remember anyone saying that at all.
You’re so desperate for feats your arguing her persuasion skills make her top tier?
Yeah?
And Gloxinia and Dolor were able to hold down and damage Chandler together, before they ultimately lost.
Yep.
Easily.
Not knocked to the ground.
They did not say it was impossible.
She is archangel level.
Graces have nothing to do with PLs. It only matters for Sun. If Elizabeth's PL is not high enough, she won't be at the level of the Archangels even with a Grace.
This whole ''Elizabeth's ark can only hurt demons'' is just ignorance at its core.
This is absolute nonsense and downright bias.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Ark is just neutral to anything that isn't demonic.
The reason Monspeet didn’t react against hellblaze was because he was stated to be the best user of that spell in the entire demon world. Not because his demon biology made him weak to it.This whole ''Elizabeth's ark can only hurt demons'' is just ignorance at its core.
Yes, Elizabeth's ark is going to be much more effective against demons due to how it interacts with particles of darkness (etc) but to suggest that it can only WORK against demons and not the other races of: Humans, Giants, Goddesses and Fairies is non-sense.
Where's the evidence that ark can't hurt anything that is non-demonic? None of the AA or Elizabeth herself have directly attacked individuals who aren't demons, but we have seen ark worked on non-demonic people when it comes to healing and purification, so why speculate that offensive ark is ineffective against them?
Plus, you're making exceptions in this argument again to put Elizabeth down.
''Elizabeth can't hurt anything that isn't specifically weak to ark''. Okay, fair enough. But this also applies to the entire clan and really just emphasises how weak the Four Archangels are without their God's blessings.
Ludoshel is actually just as ''useless'' as Elizabeth if the statement above is really truthful (in bold) since he has only ark as a method of attack, and since his grace only gives speed, then he's really just worthless. Ah but wait, the statement above (in bold) doesn't apply to him because he's a warrior and not a pacifist. So when it comes to Elizabeth, we make arguments that make exceptions and try to put her down (once again) even though she's outperformed him at EVERY turn when it comes down to magic power (ark). But don't worry, let's keep making silly arguments which make no sense in the long run
My opinion: Elizabeth's ark should work against non-demonic individuals. Obviously, it won't be as effective on Fairies/Giants/Humans (etc) since there's no elemental attribute of darkness there, but it should still work, and this applies to all of the Goddess Clan.
As for this ''Goddess resistance'': Demons have already shown the ability to resist their own demonic flames or attacks in numerous situations. So why shouldn't the same apply to a biological Goddess in accordance to the power of light?
Example: Meliodas could only break out of Melascula's cocoon due to needing a massive power gap in between them both since he had powers of darkness that she was resistant to.
Monspiet literally didn't react to Estarossa's hell blaze, even if it was a weak attack, literally any other type of magic power would've made him move or react in some way, so it shows that demons have some resistance against their own element to a degree, and the same should apply to Goddesses.
This is absolute nonsense and downright bias.
Show me where the comedy effect is.
Which page or moment has the desired effect of making the viewer/audience laugh or find it humorous? Show me the specific panel or page, because at the end of the day, this is a fact-less statement and is just your opinion.
And since opinion's only go so far in arguments, you can't deny that Elizabeth's ark had the ability to harm a 142k passive demon.
Because I don't think two lovers talking about not loving each other and fighting against each other in a war constitutes as a funny moment, but I'm sure the Meliodas fan-boys were laughing since Meliodas looked ''bad-ass in it'' (and that's a quote from a reddit user) so to them, it's probably comedy effect (lol?)
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Ark is just neutral to anything that isn't demonic.
I don't know why the Anti-Elizabeth squad had to twist the elemental advantage of ''ark'' to suggest that Elizabeth can't hurt anything other than demons, when that's a ridiculous argument considering no one would say that for the Four Archangels (minus graces). Stop making exceptions.
We’ve never been debating.
Explain how “brusing” Mel
I already responded to this nonsense above.
I mean... look at Meliodas' face. If that doesn't scream "comedy effect" then i don't know what does
Well, he was surprised that she will Ark his face lol, and yes, it sound like a comedy.
What have we seen ?
What is this even supposed to mean?!
We've seen Elizabeth powering down 2 mid-tier TC from a last resort move to the point of making them vulnerable to even a child, help or no help.And unlike them, she didn't have to pay with her life-time even for the first stage upper-hand. And that after holding them at bay single-handedly enough for them to get more desperate(it doesn't matter how many people of the fandom dislike this situation, Nakaba wrote the plot of that confrontation with the Indura acknowledging her as more dangerous than the 3 AAs present there). While it may not be an ideal combat feat, in the context of a story where Purge skills have been constantly used as combat skills to "even the ground" between people using Ark or its derivatives and demons or corrupted souls, it remains a combat feat. Especially when you add factors like the physical pressure exerted between 2 very strong "beasts" and someone who's more prone to magic build. It is at least a pretty damn big feat in power manifestation.
I’m curious as to whether Eli is being looked at it through the same lens of analysis as the AA she is liked to be compared with? Is that a fair and valid way to look at it?
No. Because we virtually know exactly how strong all of them are already.