Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2018] - Discussion and TOC Talk

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Serinox

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Also, don't forget the Japanese mentality or responsibility and fulfilling your duty to your employer. WSJ doesn't even have to force them, when they can also "guilt-trip" persuade them with that card to continue their series, for the good of the magazine and the company.
 

Mankichi Togawa

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Friendly reminder Motomiya wanted to end Otoko Ippiki at volume 12 yet Shueisha made him continue until volume 21.
 

OfficialHxH

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If I remember correctly, Kubo once stated Bleach was supposed to end by SS arc but it changed as the manga got more popular, hinting at WSJ wanting him to continue due to the popularity.
Also Bakuman heavily hinted at the fact that the second part of Death Note happened only because of WSJ pushing them for it.
It's not wrong to assume WSJ would do it. If a series sells millions, why wouldn't they try to push authors who they pay to continue and milk maximum amounts of money?

It's not a wrong statement at all. You're letting a lie continue knowingly because you know people might consider you more important if the lie is what they believe in.

Also, just curious but didn't the admin/mod ask you to stop sharing random tweets and if you're doing it to do it together at once?
For people assuming he's claiming to "be the source" by not saying anything is indeed idiotic. Maybe he just doesn't care about saying anything and let people think what they want. Maybe if people actually asked him without assuming then it might be different.

Nah he said to not spam the thread. That's a non random tweet for this thread and it's only one tweet meant to be open for discussion whether someone wanted to talk about it or not. I don't say it's spam unless said otherwise by the mods.
 

Konja9

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Really the only mangaka that was "forced" to continue working on a series was Toriyama giving all the back and forth he had withe editors about ending the series as early as Freiza.
In fact, there isn't proof that "Toriyama planned to end the story on the Freiza arc, but he was forced to continue the manga" (really, there isn't a real interview where Toriyama said or implied that he planned the story on Freiza arc).

I guess you can say Toriyama was "forced" after the first arc of Dragon Ball (the first hunt of the dragon balls by Goku and Bulma), since he originally planned end the story at that point.
 
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Nemesis

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So I'm guessing AssClass wasn't Super popular then? YYH only lasted for 18 volumes the reason why its ending is a mess is because the entire manga was a mess with Togashi not knowing what the hell he wanted for it. Takei came back to Shaman King by his accord not because of demand, he pushing for Jumbor to become a new series and started Ultima so he must have regained his passion for drawing Shaman King again during that period. Really the only mangaka that was "forced" to continue working on a series was Toriyama giving all the back and forth he had withe editors about ending the series as early as Freiza.
Toriyama wanted to end the series in the first arc of Dragon Ball. In fact, he wanted to end the series every arc.

Here's a great article from Kanzenshu talking about this: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/intended-end/
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
In fact, there isn't proof that "Toriyama planned to end the story on the Freiza arc, but he was forced to continue the manga" (really, there isn't a real interview where Toriyama said or implied that he planned the story on Freiza arc).

I guess you can say Toriyama was "forced" after the first arc of Dragon Ball (the first hunt of the dragon balls by Goku and Bulma), since he originally planned end the story at that point.
Yeah, that's true.
 

Mankichi Togawa

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Saw this in one Jump Facebook group. International sales (Japan not included)

- Naruto: 95 000 000 ( 72 + 1 = 73 Volúmenes ).
- Dragon Ball: 90 000 000 ( 42 Volúmenes ).
- One Piece: 75 000 000 ( 88 Volúmenes ).
- Slam Dunk: 48 640 000 ( 31 Volúmenes ).
- Bleach: 30 000 000 ( 47 Volúmenes ) <- Seems there is only info until volume 47

The one who posted this posted in one of his comments that the most international sold title is Dragon Ball, still here is in second place. I'm confused.´

''DB: 250 millones,, Naruto: 236 millones '' <- no number for One Piece, dunno what was the first ranking, and then what was the second one.

EDIT: Ok, first ranking is number of print titles, and second ranking number of sold titles
 

De La Croissant

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But now everything from 2015 and after is considered "Super Pushed"? That's like 7 manga in total and they all have very different circumstances and backgrounds. Is everything new just considered as automatically pushed? There should be more to it than just liking something or hating it.
I think this "push" talk got stronger last year, with all these Advertising Groups (and the fact that "Jump Super Push" is the official name of one of them doesn't help). A few months ago, some people here were surprised by the PVs and subway campaigns for Ziga and Jujutsu, series that had barely released their first chapters. I'm not saying that this never happened (remember the complaints about the amount of color pages for Black Clover?), but now it definitely seems less subtle and more desperate. The line between merit and strategy has become much thinner.
 

GinAce

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I think Akira Miyashita said in an interview of him in Super Jump magazine that he actually planned to finish Sakigake Otokojiku after the Dai Ishin Pa-Lien Seiha Arc, but the editors told him to continue the series because it was popular.
 

cody

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I think this "push" talk got stronger last year, with all these Advertising Groups (and the fact that "Jump Super Push" is the official name of one of them doesn't help). A few months ago, some people here were surprised by the PVs and subway campaigns for Ziga and Jujutsu, series that had barely released their first chapters. I'm not saying that this never happened (remember the complaints about the amount of color pages for Black Clover?), but now it definitely seems less subtle and more desperate. The line between merit and strategy has become much thinner.
I don't know... Black Clover, Kimetsu no Yaiba, The Promised Neverland, Bokuben, Dr. Stone, Jujutsu Kaisen and now Act-Age are all considered to be "pushed" and all of them have very different circumstances. The Promised Neverland had very good reception and great sales from the start and Act-Age has been struggling to survive, but both are "pushed" and the comparisons between the manga I listed above can continue, because they all have very different circumstances.

At this point this whole push talk is ridiculous because it only applies to successful serializations from 2015 and after. Smells like a load of bull to me.

There still seems to be no proper answer when it comes to what the criteria is for something to be considered "pushed".

I don't think the line between merit and strategy has become thinner.

Like at this point, are no new manga successful because of their own merits? I think it's dumb to discredit every new manga that finds some success from now on, it feels sort of disrespectful towards the mangaka.
 

Tamil

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About Jujutsu's mangaka, Akutami.
 

Belkac3m

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People think we spend our time here on this forum to respond to their comments. togashi said he wanted to deconstruct the characters, shueshia refused, he ended the series.
 

LuckyJim

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I don't know... Black Clover, Kimetsu no Yaiba, The Promised Neverland, Bokuben, Dr. Stone, Jujutsu Kaisen and now Act-Age are all considered to be "pushed" and all of them have very different circumstances. The Promised Neverland had very good reception and great sales from the start and Act-Age has been struggling to survive, but both are "pushed" and the comparisons between the manga I listed above can continue, because they all have very different circumstances.

At this point this whole push talk is ridiculous because it only applies to successful serializations from 2015 and after. Smells like a load of bull to me.

There still seems to be no proper answer when it comes to what the criteria is for something to be considered "pushed".

I don't think the line between merit and strategy has become thinner.

Like at this point, are no new manga successful because of their own merits? I think it's dumb to discredit every new manga that finds some success from now on, it feels sort of disrespectful towards the mangaka.
Every successful series has been pushed, it's how Shuiesha promotes promising new series and helps them get success. Recently though, it does seem like "push" has caught on as a buzzword for trolls when they want to explain why a series they don't like is being promoted by Jump, but series get pushed because they're successful to some degree, not the other way around.
 

101nemesis

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For people assuming he's claiming to "be the source" by not saying anything is indeed idiotic. Maybe he just doesn't care about saying anything and let people think what they want. Maybe if people actually asked him without assuming then it might be different.
Okay. Let me say that you're not wrong. Your argument is sound and valid. If this debate was taken to court, you'd win because you're right in the fact that no one asked him and so he has had no need to deny it.
That said, he's not an idiot nor is he naive. He's well aware of what he is doing by not just coming out himself and saying he isn't the source. He has been acting as an indirect source and has been doing so without actually confirming he is a source. That's what makes the other argument also valid.

But whatever.
Nah he said to not spam the thread. That's a non random tweet for this thread and it's only one tweet meant to be open for discussion whether someone wanted to talk about it or not. I don't say it's spam unless said otherwise by the mods.
Ah okay. Just curious, is all.
Every successful series has been pushed, it's how Shuiesha promotes promising new series and helps them get success. Recently though, it does seem like "push" has caught on as a buzzword for trolls when they want to explain why a series they don't like is being promoted by Jump, but series get pushed because they're successful to some degree, not the other way around.
Not necessarily. Jump can easily push something they think has potential as well. It seems to me like people like to defend series now by saying it hasn't been pushed and calling those who say otherwise "trolls". That's not how this works. WSJ's push for BC, KnY and Dr. Stone were visible as day. There's nothing wrong with accepting it. Just means they saw potential. Just like the new generation thing during SnS batch.
 

ChocoBar9

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Not necessarily. Jump can easily push something they think has potential as well. It seems to me like people like to defend series now by saying it hasn't been pushed and calling those who say otherwise "trolls". That's not how this works. WSJ's push for BC, KnY and Dr. Stone were visible as day. There's nothing wrong with accepting it. Just means they saw potential. Just like the new generation thing during SnS batch.
This. And quite frankly who cares? To deny the fact that certain series will get special treatment over others is being in denial of their status. Is there a reason why MHA, Haikyuu and Black Clover are on the front cover over the rest? Is they're a reason why newer series are being pushed to the front of the magazine moreso often then older ones? The answer is obvious hell even more obvious these days.
 

cody

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Every successful series has been pushed, it's how Shuiesha promotes promising new series and helps them get success. Recently though, it does seem like "push" has caught on as a buzzword for trolls when they want to explain why a series they don't like is being promoted by Jump, but series get pushed because they're successful to some degree, not the other way around.
To me it still comes off as discrediting every new successful manga from 2015 and after that and it is disrespectful towards the mangaka.

You never really see anyone say that OP, Haikyuu or BNHA are pushed or whatever.

Okay. Let me say that you're not wrong. Your argument is sound and valid. If this debate was taken to court, you'd win because you're right in the fact that no one asked him and so he has had no need to deny it.
That said, he's not an idiot nor is he naive. He's well aware of what he is doing by not just coming out himself and saying he isn't the source. He has been acting as an indirect source and has been doing so without actually confirming he is a source. That's what makes the other argument also valid.

But whatever.

Ah okay. Just curious, is all.

Not necessarily. Jump can easily push something they think has potential as well. It seems to me like people like to defend series now by saying it hasn't been pushed and calling those who say otherwise "trolls". That's not how this works. WSJ's push for BC, KnY and Dr. Stone were visible as day. There's nothing wrong with accepting it. Just means they saw potential. Just like the new generation thing during SnS batch.
But it isn't just BC, KnY and Dr. Stone. It's also Bokuben, The Promised Neverland, Jujutsu Kaisen and Act-Age which are "pushed". RxL was also considered to be pushed, but I guess that doesn't count any longer because it was axed?
 

101nemesis

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To me it still comes off as discrediting every new successful manga from 2015 and after that and it is disrespectful towards the mangaka.

You never really see anyone say that OP, Haikyuu or BNHA are pushed or whatever.
No. It isn't. In fact, mangaka would be happy to get the push. It means potential was seen.
Your manga, your work of art, is being pushed by the biggest manga publisher in the world, why is that ever a discredit to a mangaka?

Also, one piece didn't need a push. It was huge right out of the gate. I'm sure people have records of the sales one piece had in its initial years. They were pretty big. One piece is like the worst comparison.
Haikyuu was pushed. Who said it wasn't!? Same with MHA. Both of these also were bigger than your average hits right from the start. Therefore the effort you see WSJ put into their push were visibly different. That's why many feel those were more natural hits. But no one will ever deny these were ever pushed.
But it isn't just BC, KnY and Dr. Stone. It's also Bokuben, The Promised Neverland, Jujutsu Kaisen and Act-Age which are "pushed". RxL was also considered to be pushed, but I guess that doesn't count any longer because it was axed?
I didnt see anyone saying act age or jujutsu were pushed until like this week. And tbh you can't tell if something is pushed until a few weeks from now from how WSJ starts advertising these series. BC, YNB and Dr. Stone were part of that push together so in most ads and campaigns, you'd see these three together.
Neverland was definitely pushed but it's a funny case because most of its push has come from outside WSJ from like awards and other shows.
People refer to BC and others as being pushed because Jump specific campaigns highlighted them. Those three series went up rankings at the same time. It's the same thing that happened with the SnS batch. I forget which were the other series in that push. I think HQ was one of em.
 

cody

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No. It isn't. In fact, mangaka would be happy to get the push. It means potential was seen.
Your manga, your work of art, is being pushed by the biggest manga publisher in the world, why is that ever a discredit to a mangaka?

Also, one piece didn't need a push. It was huge right out of the gate. I'm sure people have records of the sales one piece had in its initial years. They were pretty big. One piece is like the worst comparison.
Haikyuu was pushed. Who said it wasn't!? Same with MHA. Both of these also were bigger than your average hits right from the start. Therefore the effort you see WSJ put into their push were visibly different. That's why many feel those were more natural hits. But no one will ever deny these were ever pushed.

I didnt see anyone saying act age or jujutsu were pushed until like this week. And tbh you can't tell if something is pushed until a few weeks from now from how WSJ starts advertising these series. BC, YNB and Dr. Stone were part of that push together so in most ads and campaigns, you'd see these three together.
Neverland was definitely pushed but it's a funny case because most of its push has come from outside WSJ from like awards and other shows.
People refer to BC and others as being pushed because Jump specific campaigns highlighted them. Those three series went up rankings at the same time. It's the same thing that happened with the SnS batch. I forget which were the other series in that push. I think HQ was one of em.
When I say that it comes off as discrediting the mangaka, I mean it in this way. Whenever something new is successful, some people seem to just claim it's because the manga is being pushed, implying it's not because of its own merits. This really seems to have been happening only after 2015, how cute.

What about Bokuben, what about The Promised Neverland, what about RobotxL?

From now on for sure you will see claims that both Act-Age and Jujutsu are being "pushed". You can't tell if these are being pushed? What will make you determine if these are pushed after a few weeks, what is the criteria?

I still don't really see what the exact criteria is for something to be considered as pushed.

So Haikyu and BNHA are definitely pushed, can you explain why, what are the criteria for those being "pushed". What about World Trigger?

I mean, if I wanted to, I could say that OP is being pushed because it always gets anime films, does that mean it is pushed?
 

savethecat

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Why is it such a big deal that Yonkou comes out as the source or not?
He’s never claimed he’s the source, and I highly doubt America Jump fans care that much about what the source is.
Just seems like the most minuscule thing to pick apart in someone imo.
 

Lomahongva

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About Jujutsu's mangaka, Akutami.
Yes, usually for men but lately it's also used for women whose work is recognised by her male bosses or colleagues, IIRC.
 
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