Spoiler Akatsuki no Yona Spoiler & Chapter Discussion

Mini_kinkin

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
219
Reaction score
165
Country
Winterfell
I think we had this discussion a while ago. In my opinion Yona has contributed...but the extent of the adoration is too much. There is just a disequilibrium between the praise she gets and the work she does. At least this sums it up for me.
Yona has become some sort of mythical rumour/legend in Kouka so obv there is going to be praise.

About Iguni and Kashi being friends...why not? Two high ranking ladies can be friends. Why is it a coincidence?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Nobody is forgetting anything. In fact, I reread the Fire Tribe Arc recently, and it only provides all the more stark contrast to what's been happening in the past two years (real-world-wise). However, you're wrong at that Yona swayed Tae-jun. He was hers from the very beginning. He spent 3 months wallowing in pity that he had apparently 'killed' her. He was ready to serve her the moment he found that she was alive. What Yona did was to teach him to be a decent human being. Which is commendable an' all, but she didn't have to win him over.
He wanted to save her from Hak and co....not ready to serve her. Yona taught him how to be a decent human being and yes that is commendable indeed. He did not respect Yona before even if he was in "love" now he respects her. So I am not wrong. It's just that your dislike for Yona is clouding your judgement.
 

Aniela

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Messages
158
Reaction score
157
Country
Poland
About Iguni and Kashi being friends...why not? Two high ranking ladies can be friends. Why is it a coincidence?
Because it was brought up only in a moment that was most convenient to Yona. Just when she needed a rescue. We had an entire Fire Tribe Arc, and the lady wasn't even mentioned back then.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
He wanted to save her from Hak and co....not ready to serve her. Yona taught him how to be a decent human being and yes that is commendable indeed. He did not respect Yona before even if he was in "love" now he respects her. So I am not wrong. It's just that your dislike for Yona is clouding your judgement.
I could say that your fondness of Yona is clouding your judgment. You said that she swayed Tae-jun, but she didn't. Sure, she taught him a lot. But she didn't have to win him over to her side. He wanted to 'save' her only because he thought she was held captive by 'bandits'. When he learned that he was wrong, he stopped trying and quickly searched for other things to do to please her. Becoming a decent human was simply the thing.
 

Mini_kinkin

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
219
Reaction score
165
Country
Winterfell
I could say that your fondness of Yona is clouding your judgment. You said that she swayed Tae-jun, but she didn't. Sure, she taught him a lot. But she didn't have to win him over to her side. He wanted to 'save' her only because he thought she was held captive by 'bandits'. When he learned that he was wrong, he stopped trying and quickly searched for other things to do to please her. Becoming a decent human was simply the thing.
No...he saw Yona helping the fire tribe and did the same - even if it was to please her. If Yona never bothered helping the firetribe Tae Jun would never have bothered changing. Yona's actions = Tae Jun changed.

Anyone without an inherent bias can see that Tae-Jun was swayed because of Yona's actions. In fact a very small minority in my opinion think it was ONLY because he was in love with her. Discrediting Yona again and again is not cool imo. But to each their own.

Because it was brought up only in a moment that was most convenient to Yona. Just when she needed a rescue. We had an entire Fire Trive Arc, and the lady wasn't even mentioned back then.
Why should the author reveal everything from the start? Kashi must not be some made-up character that came out of thin air because Kusa was thinking of ideas. I am sure she planned this whole thing and this character from long before. Why would the lady be mentioned in the fire tribe arc when women don't have much significance in royal matters in Kouka?
 

SamuelDean

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2017
Messages
253
Reaction score
175
Country
Dragonstone
No...he saw Yona helping the fire tribe and did the same - even if it was to please her. If Yona never bothered helping the firetribe Tae Jun would never have bothered changing. Yona's actions = Tae Jun changed.

Anyone without an inherent bias can see that Tae-Jun was swayed because of Yona's actions. In fact a very small minority in my opinion think it was ONLY because he was in love with her. Discrediting Yona again and again is not cool imo. But to each their own.
I think it is pretty apparent that he was in love with her from the beginning and that he wished to please her. I think that Yona made him in fact realize that he could change something inside the Fire Tribe, but I think that his love for her was a necessity to change.


Why should the author reveal everything from the start? Kashi must not be some made-up character that came out of thin air because Kusa was thinking of ideas. I am sure she planned this whole thing and this character from long before. Why would the lady be mentioned in the fire tribe arc when women don't have much significance in royal matters in Kouka?
In my opinion it is a property of a very good author if he/she is able to "give" the readers pivotal informations in small doses throughout their work without the readers notice. If the last piece of the puzzle is discovered by the reader then everything falls into place...The picture is complete. It s a great feeling if you ever come across such an author...and I think that Kusanagi could have given some informations about certain characters earlier in the story...
 

Mini_kinkin

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
219
Reaction score
165
Country
Winterfell
I think it is pretty apparent that he was in love with her from the beginning and that he wished to please her. I think that Yona made him in fact realize that he could change something inside the Fire Tribe, but I think that his love for her was a necessity to change.
He clearly says that he helps her because she helped the fire tribe, so using the "in love with her argument" is redundant saying that's why he follows her. That's wrong, and the manga itself says otherwise.

http://mangatop.net/chapter/akatsuki-no-yona/chapter-138?page=11
 

SamuelDean

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2017
Messages
253
Reaction score
175
Country
Dragonstone

Mini_kinkin

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
219
Reaction score
165
Country
Winterfell
Why did Tae Jun listen to Yona? That is the question that nails it. If he had had no feelings for her, it would have been rather unlikely that he had cared...
If Tae-Jun didn't have feelings for her then it might have been a Lili type situation where an important person of a tribe starts respecting and listening to Yona. But because he had feeling for Yona, it's not fair to use it an argument and say it's the only reason. Tae Jun clearly mentioned that the Fire Tribe is indebted to her and that's why he is helping her.
 

SamuelDean

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2017
Messages
253
Reaction score
175
Country
Dragonstone
If Tae-Jun didn't have feelings for her then it might have been a Lili type situation where an important person of a tribe starts respecting and listening to Yona. But because he had feeling for Yona, it's not fair to use it an argument and say it's the only reason. Tae Jun clearly mentioned that the Fire Tribe is indebted to her and that's why he is helping her.
There is a pivotal difference between Tae Jun and Lily. Lily cared for her tribe before she met Yona. Yona didn t have to persuade her though she encourated her. By the way Soo Won also influenced Lily ( The chapter where both met was named" meetings that create people".)
 

@Aylinn

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Messages
204
Reaction score
268
Country
Poland
I'm not liking this Yona getting yet another person singing her praise, though. I really hoped this would end after the Xing Arc. I also can't help but give a bitter chuckle when another person calls Yona's gift a 'burden'. Having four handsome men at your orders, what a terrible ordeal!
Yeah, we shell see if the disadvantages will outweigh the advantages, because it is clearly the other way around so far.

If Tae-Jun didn't have feelings for her then it might have been a Lili type situation where an important person of a tribe starts respecting and listening to Yona. But because he had feeling for Yona, it's not fair to use it an argument and say it's the only reason. Tae Jun clearly mentioned that the Fire Tribe is indebted to her and that's why he is helping her.
We have had a discussion about it. Yes, the Fire Tribe is indebted to Yona, but Tea-jun's family is indebted to Soo-won for sparing their lives. I think any other person who would be in Tea-jun's place and had no feelings for Yona would have at the very least a dilemma about whether to do what Yona asked and going against Soo-won.

And Iguni now tells that she doesn't like Soo-won either, which is just... Soo-won who showed mercy and spared her and her sons' lives. What a horrible thing to do! Unless she knew what her husband plotted and supported Soo-jin's rebellion her dislike for Soo-won does not make sense.
 

Maryam mohamed

Registered User
初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
Joined
Jun 4, 2018
Messages
35
Reaction score
16
Age
28
Country
Canada
thats where I am confused. iguni in some way doesn't make sense....if a diff character said that soowon is sketchy than that would make sense...and bringing up soowon name in this chapter seemed out of nowhere ...like the author was trying to make yona get another ally and bringing up kashi as well.....OHHHH WEELLLLLLLLLLLL
CAN WE GET A SOOWON ARC OR EVEN A CHAPTER
 
Last edited:

Mini_kinkin

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
219
Reaction score
165
Country
Winterfell
There is a pivotal difference between Tae Jun and Lily. Lily cared for her tribe before she met Yona. Yona didn t have to persuade her though she encourated her. By the way Soo Won also influenced Lily ( The chapter where both met was named" meetings that create people".)
Yes I never said Soo-Won didn't influence Lili. I actually acknowledge what Soo-Won did. I have been able to look past my intial bias towards him.

If you read my point I said that Lili respects and listens to Yona...and even helped Yona...and Tae-Jun also helped Yona out of respect towards her.

We have had a discussion about it. Yes, the Fire Tribe is indebted to Yona, but Tea-jun's family is indebted to Soo-won for sparing their lives. I think any other person who would be in Tea-jun's place and had no feelings for Yona would have at the very least a dilemma about whether to do what Yona asked and going against Soo-won.
The same can be said about Lili who didn't think twice before putting Soo-Won in a bad position and revealing that he is the one who killed Il. Was lili in love with Yona? No. But she still sided with Yona.

Tae Jun was indebted to Yona because of the things he witnessed her do personally. Kyo Ga on the other-hand is indebted to Soo-Won because of personal interactions with him.

Now we can't just say all characters are stupid for siding with Yona can we? We can just say that they have a deeper connection and respect for her. Lili even mentioned it somewhere that she thinks Soo-Won is a good king but sides with Yona.
 

@Aylinn

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Messages
204
Reaction score
268
Country
Poland
The same can be said about Lili who didn't think twice before putting Soo-Won in a bad position and revealing that he is the one who killed Il. Was lili in love with Yona? No. But she still sided with Yona.
Well, Lily at the very least addressed this fact that Soo-won saved her in Sei. I admit, however she did get away with it very lightly.

More importantly, I don't see how does it matter how the situation with Lily was handled for Tea-jun's situation. Whether the situation with Lily was handled good or badly proves nothing in Tea-jun's case.

Never said that characters are stupid for siding with Yona. However, it is certainly super convenient for Yona that whenever she needs help, they suddenly forget they are indebted to Soo-won as well.
 

Mini_kinkin

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
219
Reaction score
165
Country
Winterfell
Well, Lily at the very least addressed this fact that Soo-won saved her in Sei. I admit, however she did get away with it very lightly.

More importantly, I don't see how does it matter how the situation with Lily was handled for Tea-jun's situation. Whether the situation with Lily was handled good or badly proves nothing in Tea-jun's case.

Never said that characters are stupid for siding with Yona. However, it is certainly super convenient for Yona that whenever she needs help, they suddenly forget they are indebted to Soo-won as well.
And my point is that maybe they do not forget but simply choose to side with Yona because they respect her/have a deeper connection with her.

There is absolutely no point otherwise for Yona to build relationships with these characters if the manga doesn't use them later on.
 

SamuelDean

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2017
Messages
253
Reaction score
175
Country
Dragonstone
And my point is that maybe they do not forget but simply choose to side with Yona because they respect her/have a deeper connection with her.

There is absolutely no point otherwise for Yona to build relationships with these characters if the manga doesn't use them later on.
Really? When did Tae Jun ever think that he was indebted to Soo Won? I cannot remember even one moment in the manga. In comparison to Lily who does see both...and even accepted Soo Won as king.
 

@Aylinn

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Messages
204
Reaction score
268
Country
Poland
And my point is that maybe they do not forget but simply choose to side with Yona because they respect her/have a deeper connection with her.
Ok, with Tea-jun we never see this. Again if he were shown to be in a dilemma before he decided to side with Yona. Then yes, maybe I would see it like this.
But he decided to side with her without second thoughts, so I think it is safe to assume that his love for Yona had a lot to do with it.

Lily at the very least addressed the issue and we see her thoughts on both Soo-won and Yona, so it is not like she suddenly forgets everything. It kind of makes it more acceptable, but still, the situation with Lily was meh like the whole Xing arc.

And now the situation with Iguni. From where is her dislike for Soo-won, the man who spared her sons' lives, coming? If she knew about Soo-jin's plot and supported him, then ok. However, it would mean that she supported a rebellion against her friend's, Kashi's family as Soo-jin originally plotted against Il, which I think makes it unlikely that she supported Soo-jin. This leaves us with the most likely option that Iguni didn't support her husband and does not like Soo-won for no good reason while she has a very good reason to feel indebted to him.
 

Aniela

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Messages
158
Reaction score
157
Country
Poland
No...he saw Yona helping the fire tribe and did the same - even if it was to please her. If Yona never bothered helping the firetribe Tae Jun would never have bothered changing. Yona's actions = Tae Jun changed.

Anyone without an inherent bias can see that Tae-Jun was swayed because of Yona's actions. In fact a very small minority in my opinion think it was ONLY because he was in love with her. Discrediting Yona again and again is not cool imo. But to each their own.
I'm not denying that Yona changed Tae-jun. In fact, I outright wrote it. But she didn't sway him. She didn't have to actively search him out, convince him to listen to her. He was sulking for 3 months, thinking about nothing but her. She didn't have to win him over, only direct him. There's a difference.

And implying that there're people out there who don't have an inherent bias is, honestly, quite amusing. People who perhaps don't have an inherent bias about this manga are those who never heard of it. Also resorting to ad persona pretty much speaks the weakness of your arguments, since the moment you try to discredit your interlocutor is the moment you show you don't know how to disprove their arguments.

Why should the author reveal everything from the start? Kashi must not be some made-up character that came out of thin air because Kusa was thinking of ideas. I am sure she planned this whole thing and this character from long before. Why would the lady be mentioned in the fire tribe arc when women don't have much significance in royal matters in Kouka?
I'm not saying that everything must be revealed. But if this is as planned as you presume it is, then all the more reason to foreshadow it early. Bah, Yona's mother was mentioned at the very beginning. So was Su-won's mother, and she didn't even appear personally to this point. Why wouldn't Iguni be mentioned? Or not even mentioned, it would be enough if she was simply shown in the background, maybe biding farewell to her husband. How can you be so sure this character was planned, if there was no sign of her for, what, 158 chapters? Not certain, but 150 at least. She screams of nothing but a very recent addition to the story to me.

If something was planned from the beginning, it was Yona learning that her father was an incompetent ruler - that was foreshadowed as early as the first few chapters of the manga, with Hak overhearing complaining soldiers in a flashback. Fire rebellion was planned - it was foreshadowed by Su-won's comments during his coronation. Perhaps a full-out war between Kouka and Kai is foreshadowed, with prophecy an' all. But Lady Convenient Iguni came out of nowhere. This is precisely a sign of an unplanned addition. So are the last two arcs, which are structurally off (especially the Xing Arc), but I could write an essay on that. If anything, it appears that with the end of the Water Tribe Arc - followed by the sudden drop in quality - we entered an uncharted territory and the mangaka herself has only a vague idea of what she wants to happen next.
 
Last edited:

Mini_kinkin

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
219
Reaction score
165
Country
Winterfell
Really? When did Tae Jun ever think that he was indebted to Soo Won? I cannot remember even one moment in the manga. In comparison to Lily who does see both...and even accepted Soo Won as king.
I already said above that Tae Jun had personal interactions with Yona, personally witnessed Yona helping the tribe, and Kyo Ga with Soo-Won. If you think about it, Kyo Ga should also be indebted to Yona and Yoon for bringing in the idea of Izumi seeds and improving the tribe. But I know you all won't see it that way. Lili has personal interactions with both so she has a more nuetral perspective.

This leaves us with the most likely option that Iguni didn't support her husband and does not like Soo-won for no good reason while she has a very good reason to feel indebted to him.
I don't know about this, only time will tell if it pans out well.

Also resorting to ad persona pretty much speaks the weakness of your arguments, since the moment you try to discredit your interlocutor is the moment you show you don't know how to disprove their arguments.
I only used inherent bias because I know your feelings (and others on this particular forum) towards Yona. For example, if tables were turned and I would talk poorly about Soo-Won and say he is a monster despite what he has done otherwise...you would then discredit the person as being biased towards Soo-Won and I have also seen you do this several times before. So I would rather you not attack me for doing the same.

Because in fact I have not seen this Tae Jun was in love with Yona and only that's why he did this argument anywhere else except for this forum. Neither on reddit or any other place. But I could be wrong and maybe there are in those forums.

I am not going to talk about this further here. You can think as you wish.

This is precisely a sign of an unplanned addition. So are the last two arcs, which are structurally off (especially the Xing Arc), but I could write an essay on that. If anything, it appears that with the end of the Water Tribe Arc - followed by the sudden drop in quality - we entered an uncharted territory and the mangaka herself has only a vague idea of what she wants to happen next.
I think we are judging too soon. It's not easy to write a story or a manga. To say that she hasn't planned this is rather insulting to her art, just because the story isn't going how you want it to. But you have a right to your own opinion. Perhaps Iguni has her own reasons which will be revealed later.
 

Aniela

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Messages
158
Reaction score
157
Country
Poland
No art is beyond criticism. And criticism is not an insult. If an author takes criticism as an insult, then perhaps it's a sign they can't deal with it.

And I'm criticising the last two arcs for structural oddities which make them appear unplanned, not for the direction they went (keep coming back to this, eh?). Especially the Xing Arc. The Forts Arc I suppose had an OK structure, the problem was more with probability stretching (forts in the middle of a forest? A group of Tribe Generals standing up against 1000 soldiers?). So far in the story it's nothing odd to not have planned everything in advance, but it is nonetheless disappointing when the quality of the story drops.
 

SamuelDean

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2017
Messages
253
Reaction score
175
Country
Dragonstone
I already said above that Tae Jun had personal interactions with Yona, personally witnessed Yona helping the tribe, and Kyo Ga with Soo-Won. If you think about it, Kyo Ga should also be indebted to Yona and Yoon for bringing in the idea of Izumi seeds and improving the tribe. But I know you all won't see it that way. Lili has personal interactions with both so she has a more nuetral perspective.
Wouldn t you feel grateful if a person spares your life even though ( twice! The first time when he had "nearly killed Yona and Hak") the law would demand that you should be punished? A death penalty? I think that he has more than one reason to be grateful or if he lacks that emotion he should know that Soo Won won t always turn a blind eye.
 

@Aylinn

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Messages
204
Reaction score
268
Country
Poland
I already said above that Tae Jun had personal interactions with Yona, personally witnessed Yona helping the tribe, and Kyo Ga with Soo-Won. If you think about it, Kyo Ga should also be indebted to Yona and Yoon for bringing in the idea of Izumi seeds and improving the tribe. But I know you all won't see it that way. Lili has personal interactions with both so she has a more nuetral perspective.
No, it is fair enough. Kyo-Ga has a reason to feel indebted to Yona and Yoon as well, though I am not sure if he knows about their involvement with Iza seeds and if he would believe without evidence at this point. I would not mind if Kyo-Ga had a dilemma before deciding to side with Soo-won likewise I wouldn’t mind if Tea-jun had a dilemma before deciding to side with Yona.

I think it would be fair enough if one pointed out that Kyo-Ga is most likely blind to what Yona did, because of his desire to prove himself and show that the Fire Tribe is not a bunch of traitors.

More importantly, I do not have a problem with the fact that Tea-jun sides with Yona. I just find the explanation that he did so without second thoughts, because he is in love with Yona to be very plausible. In other words, I think it explains nicely why the idea that he is indebted to Soo-won as well never seems to enter his head.
 
Last edited:
Top