Apparently it does by your logic, because you guys keep saying the strength beats everything which is nonsense. Again, by your logic that Acno cannot kill Anksheram victims. You are obviously not reading fairytale because you did not read what Zeref said, That’s making your argument unacceptable, and Zeref confirmed that he was not stronger even with FH yet cannot die to him
What GMG and Alvarez taught us about power scaling in FT --> its rubbish
END ability, CS, sheer power, nothing is explained properly. So in the end we are left with what the characters were saying and even thats not enough, but Mashima went simplistic and just posted this:
In the end its END power and thats straight from Mashima himself, take it or leave it, its up to you ... i interpreted this as END power, or should i say the Demon seed's power and immunity to powers that are even god tier. Doesnt matter if there are characters more powerful than END and i doubt there are (Natsu didnt even go full END, we never saw the full extent and i cant even back up if there is a full extent, screw you Hiro), fact is END power/Demon seed power is designed to be immune to even got tier magic acording to Mashima Q&A. We saw characters beating other characters with far greater MP levels and this is no different even if someone could beat END. Thats my final opinion that wont change. Others have their own opinion
I never interpreted that Q&A as Hiro saying that END's powers had a special hax. Nor does it imply that. This just helps the reader know that it was END's power that let Natsu move through Dimaria's time without really getting into the details. The manga got into the details. The manga itself made it clear that the reason END could do this was because it was stronger than Chronos' powers as a god.
It's not really a debate whether or not there are characters more powerful than END. There are. Gray stalemated END's power at the height of Natsu's anger, which is canonically the strongest we've ever seen END's power at. Erza took less damage from END's and Gray's combined attacks than a casual swipe from Irene's dragon form. Even going with the assumption that END was stronger in the past, Igneel could have crushed END with a toe 400 years ago. Acnologia is even stronger than Igneel. Not to mention Zeref with Fairy Heart had infinite power and the ability to turn back time. END has no way of matching Zeref in raw power, or the ability to counter Zeref's ability to reverse-time. Arguments should always be falsifiable. That is to say, if no amount of evidence can change your mind then your position probably isn't very reasonable. For me, there is a fairly simple way to change my mind. If END's power returns in the 100 years quest and Natsu uses it to beat the Acno-tier dragon gods, then I will accept END is more powerful than anything else. If END's power fades into irrelevancy, then I will continue my assumption that characters with better feats are stronger than it.
Likewise, it's not really a debate whether or not END is the only one that is stronger than a god. He's not. Natsu without END's power proved himself stronger than a god when he destroyed the god of war. Irene and August are both stronger than DImaria, with everyone having full knowledge Dimaria has the powers of a god. FH Zeref's powers straight up outshines Dimaria's in every aspect. He's got more raw power and more control over time than Dimaria does. Acnologia is stronger than the entire Alvarez Empire including Dimaria, and this is before Acnologia ate an entire dimension's worth of time magic strong enough to literally destroy the world.
A power, not a power up, it is not needed for interpretation since it is very simple, Mira even repeats it to be the case. That is why it is hax, because END’s power allows him to do that, same with killing Zeref.
I never interpreted that Q&A as Hiro saying that END's powers had a special hax. Nor does it imply that. This just helps the reader know that it was END's power that let Natsu move through Dimaria's time without really getting into the details. The manga got into the details. The manga itself made it clear that the reason END could do this was because it was stronger than Chronos' powers as a god.
It's not really a debate whether or not there are characters more powerful than END. There are. Gray stalemated END's power at the height of Natsu's anger, which is canonically the strongest we've ever seen END's power at. Erza took less damage from END's and Gray's combined attacks than a casual swipe from Irene's dragon form. Even going with the assumption that END was stronger in the past, Igneel could have crushed END with a toe 400 years ago. Acnologia is even stronger than Igneel. Not to mention Zeref with Fairy Heart had infinite power and the ability to turn back time. END has no way of matching Zeref in raw power, or the ability to counter Zeref's ability to reverse-time. Arguments should always be falsifiable. That is to say, if no amount of evidence can change your mind then your position probably isn't very reasonable. For me, there is a fairly simple way to change my mind. If END's power returns in the 100 years quest and Natsu uses it to beat the Acno-tier dragon gods, then I will accept END is more powerful than anything else. If END's power fades into irrelevancy, then I will continue my assumption that characters with better feats are stronger than it.
Likewise, it's not really a debate whether or not END is the only one that is stronger than a god. He's not. Natsu without END's power proved himself stronger than a god when he destroyed the god of war. Irene and August are both stronger than DImaria, with everyone having full knowledge Dimaria has the powers of a god. FH Zeref's powers straight up outshines Dimaria's in every aspect. He's got more raw power and more control over time than Dimaria does. Acnologia is stronger than the entire Alvarez Empire including Dimaria, and this is before Acnologia ate an entire dimension's worth of time magic strong enough to literally destroy the world.
Like i said you can interepet it as you like, take it or leave it. Im not arguing who is stronger than END cuz i cant even say if he went full force, and even that i cant back up. What i showed is why END moved through time, and that he has specifically the power to do so. For Anything else im not even going into discussion cuz power scaling is rubish
Defeat and killing are not (always) the same thing though, and that is the point of this discussion, about strength trumping everything or not, where there is spells that have specific hax for that purpose
Example, Ban (NNT) was repeatedly inflicted with mortal or death dealing wounds by beings waaaay stronger than him, and yet survive because he is immortal, see the pattern there?
A power, not a power up, it is not needed for interpretation since it is very simple, Mira even repeats it to be the case. That is why it is hax, because END’s power allows him to do that, same with killing Zeref.
The manga itself had DImaria implying that the reason END's power could move through her time was because it was more powerful than a god. Mirajane repeatedly saying "END's power!" does nothing to change this. Nor does it imply hax.
@Valhalla777 the only evidence of END having a stronger form can be the END form we saw in the movie Dragon Cry against Animus.But the plot line looks so different that it can very well be a different timeline.
Probably Mashima originally wanted to introduce this END in the manga.
Yes it does, because surpassing the power of a god is hax itself, since not everyone in the universe is a god, that is why it is only that way for god powers
@Arjuna, no, END did not even appear in Dragon Cry, Natsu just dragonized
Yes it does, because surpassing the power of a god is hax itself, since not everyone in the universe is a god, that is why it is only that way for god powers
@Arjuna, no, END did not even appear in Dragon Cry, Natsu just dragonized
Yes it does, because surpassing the power of a god is hax itself, since not everyone in the universe is a god, that is why it is only that way for god powers
Altas heard of END in the past before as well, and the form Natsu took is nothing like the one he took in Alvarez, he did not take the latter form until the demon seed appeared in his body, that was after his first fight with Zeref.
Defeat and killing are not (always) the same thing though, and that is the point of this discussion, about strength trumping everything or not, where there is spells that have specific hax for that purpose
Example, Ban (NNT) was repeatedly inflicted with mortal or death dealing wounds by beings waaaay stronger than him, and yet survive because he is immortal, see the pattern there?
Hence why anco>zeref anco is stronger cuz he can beat him acno doesn’t have to kill zeref to prove he is stronger Simple as that. That also includes hax.
Ban is immortal but isn’t the strongest in his verse so that proves my point even more
once again, you are not proving a point as defeating someone is not the point of the conversation, it is straight up killing Zeref, that is all, nothing more nothing less. And Acnologia cannot kill him even while being stronger. That does not prove your point at all since all you talk about is strength can overcome immortality.
Now Zeref died
We do not know if anyone can break his immortality by killing him
Zeref said in Chapter 532 : not even e.n.d could beat me
Finally, we know that the power of love can do it (zeref and mavis)
once again, you are not proving a point as defeating someone is not the point of the conversation, it is straight up killing Zeref, that is all, nothing more nothing less. And Acnologia cannot kill him even while being stronger. That does not prove your point at all since all you talk about is strength can overcome immortality.
Anco is the strongest in the verse therefore dragons>gods that was the whole debate u brought up ahkherham as if he can solo acno he doesn’t have any feats. I said dragons are consider the strongest in verse u disagree My point till stands u think that U have kill some1 to prove that ur stronger which isn’t the case Future rouge even said that anco rule the world proves that acno(a dragon) is the strongest. End of story
You have no proof of that since he cannot kill someone under Ankhseram’s curse, those by your logic of might is right, Ankhseram is the strongest.
Yet the Spriggans are stronger than the majority of the dragons, you are wrong yet again on assuming facts. Ruling the world is not the same as killing everyone including Zeref and Mavis, again wrong o your part
You have no proof of that since he cannot kill someone under Ankhseram’s curse, those by your logic of might is right, Ankhseram is the strongest.
Yet the Spriggans are stronger than the majority of the dragons, you are wrong yet again on assuming facts. Ruling the world is not the same as killing everyone including Zeref and Mavis, again wrong o your part
Give me feats I been asking for the longest u keep saying he the strongest cause he curse zeref how doesn’t that help in a 1v1 battle???
Smh last time I will say this if u can’t understand this I can’t help u. U DONT HAVE TO KILL TO PROVE WHO STRONGER!!!! Natsu beat Jacob without killing him natsu beat neinhart without killing him natsu BEAT ZEREF without killing him which means NATSU>zeref Jacob and neinhart. Same logic apply to anco.
name me 1 spriggan(who all ain’t stronger than zeref) stronger than acno and Ingeel??? I’ll wait
Acno cannot kill Zeref nor Mavis, that is proof by your logic that Ankhseram is better than Acno.
Neinhart was physically weak, Jacob could not fight back in his state. No, Natsu could not kill Zeref because his curse will not let him die. No it does not, it requires specific abilities for most cases to beat characters with hax
Sigh, I said most dragons, as in all dragons besides Igneel, Acno and the pentadrakes are above all the Spriggans, all other dragons are fodder.
I think Red Lightning was also a PoF move. The whole mercury fulminate explanation didn't make sense.
It was stated that Red Lightning is "Lightning which surpasses lightning itself". That made no sense, even to this day:
As you can see, this panel mentions that Laxus inherited the Power of Miracles from his ancestors and that the red color represented an unbreakable bond of blood.
These statements (including the poor explanation of Mercury Fulminate) leads me to believe that Red Lightning was PoF.
Not only that, but Freed helped him out by giving him the ability to use the Jutsu Shiki barrier against Wahl.
So while I agree that Laxus was double-handicapped, he still had PoF and help to cancel those out.
And it's hard to gauge his power because Red Lightning was the only spell that actually worked on Wahl. And in my opinion, that spell was PoF.
She hardly "mocked" him. Almost every panel you posted contains her literally praising him and acknowledging his strength, even over the person she serves, Zeref. You must expect her to have been shitting herself, because she's standing in front of Acnologia, when really she just seemed (over)confident in her abilities. I'm not sure how her saying she intends to block his path is mocking. Is Natsu or any other character going up against someone who's supposed to be stronger than them, "mocking" them?
You're right though, that for whatever reason Acnologia had no intentions of killing her, which probably helped.
Irene asserted that she intended to block Acnologia's path. If she knew that Acnologia was possibly above FH Zeref, why would she say such a thing?
Again, she was portraying herself in a superior attitude. She tried to hype FH Zeref so that Acnologia would feel nervous, but that's ridiculous because Acnologia could have just ended her life right there.
Praising him and then being sarcastic isn't honoring him. It's trying to avoid direct confrontation because she knows that she's no match for him.
Laughable opinion, especially the bolded bit, considering you then go on to fanboy Gray into Laxus and END levels, when he's really just a tier (at best) above Erza when you disconsider the plot required need to make END and Gray seem like "rivals".
I go by feats. Gray had decent feats (even above average at some parts). I don't see how a person can accept everybody else's feats and then deny Gray's.... Gray had one of the best feats in the Alvarez Arc out of all the good guys.
As for END and Gray, I don't get your point. They are rivals.
That's how the story was written. There's no BS involved in that part. Silver handed down Ice Devil Slaying Magic to Gray with the purpose of defeating END, who was created by Zeref and known as the strongest etherious demon.
This is not the same as Irene avoiding death at the hands of Acnologia because Acnologia just stood there when he had no reason to.
(zeref and mavis)
