Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[WoWfan]

There is no proof that he was dying when using END powers, when he was dying he was in a coma, he only died as END when Zeref dies naturally. He was dying when his seeds were mixing, that is the key words. Damaging the book was relevant as that was what created the seed in the first place. Full version is not imaginary as he was still transforming. Natsu was not a full demon yet so his powers have yet to fully mature. So he would not yet use savage flames on FH Zeref. Natsu wasn’t END when he said that. Yet not enough emotions for Zeref to cause a Kugelblitz. Nothing END can’t do with his flames and curse power. Even with regular natsu, he still could not kill a Zeref with Savage flames. Larcade was grievously injured, not the same as full strength and had no reason to fight Zeref. You cannot use that as an example. Spriggans are already above majority of dragons, the only thing stopping them from dying is dragon scales. Invel was hardly ignorant as he and everyone else is fully aware of Zeref’s history so they know full well that END is capable of killing Zeref. So he was not basing this out of fanstism but on reasonable concern. Zeref is contradicting most of what he said, that is why he has to go back in time because he cannot beat Acnologia

 

[Axiomus]

There is no proof that he was dying when using END powers, when he was dying he was in a coma, he only died as END when Zeref dies naturally. He was dying when his seeds were mixing, that is the key words. Damaging the book was relevant as that was what created the seed in the first place. Full version is not imaginary as he was still transforming. Natsu was not a full demon yet so his powers have yet to fully mature. So he would not yet use savage flames on FH Zeref. Natsu wasn’t END when he said that. Yet not enough emotions for Zeref to cause a Kugelblitz. Nothing END can’t do with his flames and curse power. Even with regular natsu, he still could not kill a Zeref with Savage flames. Larcade was grievously injured, not the same as full strength and had no reason to fight Zeref. You cannot use that as an example. Spriggans are already above majority of dragons, the only thing stopping them from dying is dragon scales. Invel was hardly ignorant as he and everyone else is fully aware of Zeref’s history so they know full well that END is capable of killing Zeref. So he was not basing this out of fanstism but on reasonable concern. Zeref is contradicting most of what he said, that is why he has to go back in time because he cannot beat Acnologia

The proof is in the fact that he was dying when Brandish regrew the tumor, and how he immediately collapsed into a coma when he calmed down. His seeds were mixing the moment the demon seed grew, hence why he collapsed shortly after his fight with Zeref. There's no reason the seeds would separate when he uses END's power.

END cannot use savage flames. Again, savage flames is only possible when Natsu converts his feelings for his guild into power. This is straight up incompatible with END's powers, because END's power runs on negative emotions. When Natsu was reminded of his friendship with Erza and Gray, END's powers stopped working. I have no clue how a kugelblitz fits into this discussion. Neither Natsu or Zeref created a kugelblitz. Natsu beat Zeref because the feelings of love he had for his guilt was more powerful than Zeref's lifetime of pain and sorrow.

Larcade was less injured than Gray was when he fought Natsu. Zeref still destroyed him easily. Natsu wasn't able to do the same to Dimaria, or Gray, or Erza. END's attacks are simply not that strong. Natsu with his own powers can beat FH Zeref, which is a lot more than what can be said for END's power. Natsu with Igneel's powers could kill Zeref. Natsu with END's powers can't beat Gray, or seriously hurt Erza. Forget about killing Zeref. END can't even beat people weaker than Zeref.

Dragon scales are hardly the only thing that prevents them from dying. Dragons also have unmatched physical strength, and attacks that easily rival any of the Spriggan's onscreen feats. One of the two strongest Spriggans is a dragon. Frankly, it doesn't matter how strong the Spriggans are compared to a dragon. You don't have to be anywhere close to a Spriggan to take out most demons. Most of the Demons of Tartarus would get taken out by current Lucy, except for maybe like Mard and Kyouka. Zeref can oneshot the 2nd strongest demon in Larcade easily. Gajeel took out the next strongest demon in Bloodman, and he wasn't even a devil slayer. Irene in her dragon form would wreck END Natsu.

I never said Invel was ignorant. The list of things I never said grows. None of the other Spriggans were worried about END. They simply didn't care. Only Invel did. The strongest Spriggans in August and Irene were both more concerned about helping Zeref obtain Fairy Heart so that he can deal with Acnologia. Zeref himself said that without Igneel's powers, Natsu couldn't beat him. He wasn't worried about Acnologia at all, and even said END couldn't defeat him. In fact, now that I have reread everything: Not once has Zeref himself ever stated confidently that END's power can kill him. He said during the Tartarus arc that he was confident that Natsu would destroy END, and be the one to kill him. Really all that was said about Zeref's plans was that he hoped that Igneel would train Natsu to be strong enough to one day kill him. Not once has Zeref himself said that END has the power to kill him. The only time Zeref expressed any kind of confidence at the possibility of death was during his fight against Igneel-powered Natsu. You're welcome to try to prove me wrong on this by finding a panel that says otherwise.

Spoiler: Zeref saying even END couldn't defeat him

Spoiler: Zeref confident that Natsu can't defeat him without Igneel's power

 

[WoWfan]

He was dying before it was regrown too when it actually developed, but he is sure wasn’t dying when he became END. They are definitely not mixed together when we saw them collapse. Again, END can use savage flames as they are no real particular technique, just heated flames that cause a Kugelblitz via feelings. Something END is not restricted to. Natsu did create a Kugelblitz, that is how he bypassed Zeref’s time magic. No, Larcade was more injured than Gray was, otherwise Gray would not be able to fight Natsu, Dimaria, Gray and Erza are just that tough to kill. Zeref only assumed Igneel’s power could kill him. Dragons are only mountain level at best where as Spriggans are large country at maximum effort. Zeref only said that about Natsu’s current condition, not his END one. Again he contradict things. Even Larcade was as well. Another thing you are wrong about. Zeref wanted Tartarus to awaken END, that shows that he can kill him. He only had confidence but no proof which is not the same thing.

 

[Axiomus]

He was dying before it was regrown too when it actually developed, but he is sure wasn’t dying when he became END. They are definitely not mixed together when we saw them collapse. Again, END can use savage flames as they are no real particular technique, just heated flames that cause a Kugelblitz via feelings. Something END is not restricted to. Natsu did create a Kugelblitz, that is how he bypassed Zeref’s time magic. No, Larcade was more injured than Gray was, otherwise Gray would not be able to fight Natsu, Dimaria, Gray and Erza are just that tough to kill. Zeref only assumed Igneel’s power could kill him. Dragons are only mountain level at best where as Spriggans are large country at maximum effort. Zeref only said that about Natsu’s current condition, not his END one. Again he contradict things. Even Larcade was as well. Another thing you are wrong about. Zeref wanted Tartarus to awaken END, that shows that he can kill him. He only had confidence but no proof which is not the same thing.

Natsu was dying when Happy brought him to the guild. When Natsu is dying, that means the seeds were mixing. Brandish then shrunk the demon seed, which made Natsu better. Then she unshrunk the demon seed, which made Natsu worse again. Then Natsu regained consciousness, and went on a rage when he thought Lucy was dead. He was still dying. He was just amped up on rage so he ignored the symptoms.

Yes, there is a specific technique. Natsu converts all the feelings of his guild into power. Not only does Natsu tell us exactly what he's going to do, we even SEE this happening by the fact that Natsu's guild mark glows when he does this. Natsu did not cause a kugelblitz. A kugelblitz is a black hole created by heat. There was no black hole.

Spoiler: Natsu telling us his greatest power is his feelings for his guild

Spoiler: Natsu's guild mark glowing as he uses his power of feelings

Gray was dying. Larcade was not. The only difference is Gray was also amped on PoF over Juvia's death, and was moving despite his injuries. Zeref is tougher than Gray, Dimaria, or Erza. Zeref can tank Igneel's power (which has the hax to kill him) punching him through the solid rock. This attack right here is more impressive than any of END's attacks by several magnitudes. This is what I mean when I say hax alone is not enough. You need to be powerful enough to beat Zeref in a fight before even thinking of killing him. END can't punch Erza or Gray anywhere close to this hard. Zeref can tank this attack comfortably.

Spoiler: Natsu punching Zeref through the side of a mountain

I'm not going to reignite the argument of Spriggans being country level. Show me panels of a Spriggan blowing up a country, or your argument has no substance. August is the only character that has an attack that was even mentioned of being capable of destroying a country. This was a suicide attack in Ars Goetia. Anyways, how Spriggans scale to dragons is irrelevant. What's important here is that you don't need devil slaying magic to kill demons, unlike dragons. Zeref can easily oneshot a Spriggan in combat, and that's not even the easiest way he can take one out. He could snap his fingers and simply cause them to disappear because the demons are Zeref's magic.

Zeref specifically said that even END couldn't destroy him. His exact words were "Even END cannot defeat me!". Regardless of whether or not he was referring to Natsu or not, Zeref still has never once stated that END can kill him. Not even once.

 

[WoWfan]

Yet the seeds were still separated by the time they were destroyed. He wasn’t dying when he became END. No proof he was dying as a demon. Nope, Zeref just said those were the flames of his savage emotions. No specific technique naming, which means even END can do it. That is science behind it, to be able to effect space time, heat has to be high enough to do that. And his flames are the flames of emotion. Gray was not dying, he was just injured, not more so than Larcade is. Not really as he could not even kill Zeref. While END has the power to do so. Wall’s attacks have the energy which puts them at large country via radiation energy. Because science. August and Irene are both Small continent by Compression, because science. That is irrelevant as Dragons have no stats that can beat Spriggans. Zeref contradicts himself, do not believe what he says. Again, Tartarus Arc he wanted END to awaken, because he wanted END to kill him.

 

[Axiomus]

Yet the seeds were still separated by the time they were destroyed. He wasn’t dying when he became END. No proof he was dying as a demon. Nope, Zeref just said those were the flames of his savage emotions. No specific technique naming, which means even END can do it. That is science behind it, to be able to effect space time, heat has to be high enough to do that. And his flames are the flames of emotion. Gray was not dying, he was just injured, not more so than Larcade is. Not really as he could not even kill Zeref. While END has the power to do so. Wall’s attacks have the energy which puts them at large country via radiation energy. Because science. August and Irene are both Small continent by Compression, because science. That is irrelevant as Dragons have no stats that can beat Spriggans. Zeref contradicts himself, do not believe what he says. Again, Tartarus Arc he wanted END to awaken, because he wanted END to kill him.

The seeds were fusing, not fully fused. The fact that Natsu was dying proves the seeds were fusing, and this happened at the beginning when Happy brought him into the guild. Natsu was dying so long as the seeds were fusing, and they've been fusing since the beginning. It's really as simple as that.

Natsu said that he was going to convert his feelings towards the guild into power. The feelings he had towards the guild are literally are the emotions are behind the flames of savage emotions. These emotions are quite literally incompatible with the conditions necessary to maintain END's powers.

Gray was quite literally dying before Juvia saved him. Then he got a PoF bump, which carried him all the way through his fight with Natsu. Gray was so injured that he immediately collapsed after he calmed down. Larcade was still using his magic to restrain Natsu, and wouldn't have stopped until Zeref blasted him.

Oh please, not this again. Saying that Wall is country level because of energy radiation calculation is about as valid an argument as saying Bluenote is multi-planetary because of an event horizon calculation for the size of his black hole. That's science too. You're just cherry picking one because it suits your bias. At the end of the day Wall wasn't blowing up countries with his attacks, and was easily taken out by someone who also wasn't blowing up countries either. In any case, the parent dragons disabled a weapon that can wipe out a continent's worth of magic. That's more impressive than anything the Spriggans can do, considering the existence of face was one of Ishgar's deterrence against Alvarez's invasion.

Zeref, however his contradictions, is still the most reliable source of information regarding END. Also, Zeref wanted Natsu to destroy END in the Tartarus arc. He literally told Natsu in their conversation that he believes Natsu could destroy END, and hopes Natsu will be the one to face him. In fact, just like how Zeref never said END had the power to kill him, he also never said that he hoped Mard Geer would succeed in bringing back END.

 

[WoWfan]

And he wasn’t dying when he became a demon, for he only was dying when he was in a coma. Hatred is also an emotion which he can use to power his flames as well, that is for curses, not magic, learn the difference. Grey was not dying just severely injured, difference there. There is a thing called scaling which is applicable for any stat measuring and Bluenote is roughly city level at best. Doesn’t matter what you think, all that matters is the facts and the facts show that wall has the energy four large country level attacks size doesn’t matter as a proof to you several times before. Dragons are large building by your statement which makes them weaker. There is a difference in reliable and being arrogant and contradicting, he even contradicts his one statements of goals.

 

[Axiomus]

And he wasn’t dying when he became a demon, for he only was dying when he was in a coma. Hatred is also an emotion which he can use to power his flames as well, that is for curses, not magic, learn the difference. Grey was not dying just severely injured, difference there. There is a thing called scaling which is applicable for any stat measuring and Bluenote is roughly city level at best. Doesn’t matter what you think, all that matters is the facts and the facts show that wall has the energy four large country level attacks size doesn’t matter as a proof to you several times before. Dragons are large building by your statement which makes them weaker. There is a difference in reliable and being arrogant and contradicting, he even contradicts his one statements of goals.

Natsu was dying so long as the seeds were fusing. Just because he's not in a coma doesn't mean he's not dying.

Flames of savage emotions is, quite frankly, a magic power. Not a curse power. Learn the difference.

Bluenote's black hole, scaled by science, should be a multi-planetary due to the radius of its event horizon. Accept this, and I will accept Wall as country.

Dragons are only large building if you're blind, because at least 2 dragons have shown mountain level attacks. Not from scaling or ridiculous calculations. They've simply shown attacks that are as large as the mountains. If you think flying around a continent and destroying 3000 skyscrapers counts as a large building feat...well then that's just bad math. Large building x750 =/= 1 large building.

Zeref never said anything about END having the power to kill him. He also never said anything about wanting Mard Geer to succeed in bringing back END. He said that he believed Natsu could destroy END, hoped Natsu would be the one to kill him, that Igneel's power let's Natsu kill him, that Natsu can't beat him without Igneel's power, and that END cannot defeat him. These are all things Zeref has said.

 

[WoWfan]

It does not mean they were fusing because he was a demon if he was one or something, that did not mean he was dying. It doesn’t matter which emotions he uses as long as he has emotions to power his flames it does not state it has to be magic or not, curses are just the thing for hatred and such. Gray was still alive and kicking, which meant he wasn’t dying at the moment. There is science to things which also apply to scaling from the consistant standpoint, which means things can be tweaked for the sake of story telling. Still does not put dragons at Spriggan level and that is a fact and story state Spriggans are the strongest enemies FT faced. And no, he was using a DKDF attack, Savage flames isn’t a specific technique just flames that are savage. Again, Zeref he did wanted Mard to succeed which he congratulated for the attempt. Zeref only guess with Igneel’s power, no proof

 

[Axiomus]

It does not mean they were fusing because he was a demon if he was one or something, that did not mean he was dying. It doesn’t matter which emotions he uses as long as he has emotions to power his flames it does not state it has to be magic or not, curses are just the thing for hatred and such. Gray was still alive and kicking, which meant he wasn’t dying at the moment. There is science to things which also apply to scaling from the consistant standpoint, which means things can be tweaked for the sake of story telling. Still does not put dragons at Spriggan level and that is a fact and story state Spriggans are the strongest enemies FT faced. And no, he was using a DKDF attack, Savage flames isn’t a specific technique just flames that are savage. Again, Zeref he did wanted Mard to succeed which he congratulated for the attempt. Zeref only guess with Igneel’s power, no proof

Natsu was like 85% human. Only his hands were demonic. Also, just because he gained demonic traits doesn't mean the seeds weren't fusing.

Yes, it matters what emotions he uses. This is the entire point of the series. Natsu specifically said his feelings towards the guild is what will give him his greatest power. Those emotions are Natsu's strongest power.

The main point is Larcade was no more injured than Gray. Gray was injured and collapsed when his rage ran out.

Saying that things can be tweaked for the sake of storytelling for Bluenote, and then adamantly insisting that we stay strict to science for Wall....is a textbook example of cherry picking.

Destroying face absolutely puts the parent dragons above the Spriggans. None of the Spriggans can pull off a feat remotely close to this scale, except maybe Irene in her dragon form. Even then, that's by scaling not feats. If Ishgar had face, they would shut down the Alvarez Invasion easily.

Story never states Spriggans are the strongest enemies Fairy Tail ever faced. It was in the volume afterwards, but I digress. Obviously there are exceptions, like Acnologia. Parent dragons were not enemies. They were allies.

Actually, if you want to get technical the attack that burned time was actually a Fire Dragon King's Demolition Fist. The attack afterwards that took out Zeref was an unnamed punch. When Zeref said that Natsu's flames were a blaze of savage emotions, he wasn't referring to a specific attack. Just at the fact that the flames Natsu were using are powered by his savage emotions. Those emotions are referring to Natsu's feelings for the guild. Natsu can only use savage flames if he converts his feelings for the guild into power.

Actually, there is proof. That Igneel's power would have killed Zeref. It was in the 'story thus far' section back when the series was still doing weekly serialization. CR used to host these chapters, before removing everything post volume 30. Luckily, I have the text (and page) saved. The text tells us that Natsu and Zeref were indeed both about to die.

Spoiler: Page

 

[WoWfan]

Yet he was still changing and that doesn’t prove that they were fusing at that point. And with curses his negative emotions are the strongest, as END. That is the point, Larcade is more injured and did not have any reason to fight Zeref. No, that is called consistency which is progressing from where people show feats. And Spriggans are both stated and called to be at Country level or higher. While Dragons have shown no real feats that would match them, even War God is stronger with large mountain attacks. No It doesn’t put dragons above Spriggans, just at large building. Irene is way stronger than any dragon shown in the story so doesn’t matter what you say. Yes they do, volume is still supporting the story. No, it was DKDF as well, he named it, wrong again, he used it twice, the second time is with kugelblitz. Zeref was just saying it poetically, no real significance. Just as Igneel’s hax power, nothing more

 

[Axiomus]

Yet he was still changing and that doesn’t prove that they were fusing at that point. And with curses his negative emotions are the strongest, as END. That is the point, Larcade is more injured and did not have any reason to fight Zeref. No, that is called consistency which is progressing from where people show feats. And Spriggans are both stated and called to be at Country level or higher. While Dragons have shown no real feats that would match them, even War God is stronger with large mountain attacks. No It doesn’t put dragons above Spriggans, just at large building. Irene is way stronger than any dragon shown in the story so doesn’t matter what you say. Yes they do, volume is still supporting the story. No, it was DKDF as well, he named it, wrong again, he used it twice, the second time is with kugelblitz. Zeref was just saying it poetically, no real significance

The reason Natsu was dying was because the seeds were fusing. He was dying shorting after his fight with Zeref. That meant the seeds have already started fusing even then. The demon seed was clearly what was causing to die, because Brandish shrinking it helped Natsu recover. Just because Natsu was awake and fighting doesn't mean he wasn't dying.

Setting different standards for different characters is literally the opposite of consistency. It's actually called double standards. Who would have guessed?

Show me where the Spriggans were stated to be country level. The closest was Brandish having the name of nation destroyer. A nation, by the way, isn't a country. War God was a multi-mountain buster, but he was weaker than Natsu. Natsu himself is not as strong as a dragon like Animus without invoking that half-dragon form he used in dragon cry. Parent dragons's ability to destroy face is way beyond the power of any of the Spriggans. The Alvarez invasion would be stopped dead in its track if Ishgar activated face. Face was something that Makarov considered using Fairy Heart against.

Irene's most powerful form is a dragon, and she's not the most powerful dragon. She's weaker than Acnologia, Igneel, and the 5 dragon gods. She would probably lose to Grandine considering Grandine has more magic power than Wendy and more physical strength than Erza. Irene is an example of a high tier dragon. Parent dragons are all top tier, with Igneel and Acnologia being best in-verse.

Natsu didn't use dragon force in his final exchange with Zeref. He gave a speech about how his feelings for the guild is his strongest power and how he will use it to power his attack. Then his guild mark started glowing. Then he used a Fire Dragon King's demolition fist. Zeref responded with his dark abyss: exploding blade. The two attacks clashed, and Natsu started to burn away Fairy Heart's time magic. Then Natsu punched Zeref again.

There was no kugelblitz. Lol, this is my que to stop.

 

[WoWfan]

He wasn’t dying when he was a demon though, the demon seed was just changing him into a demon, doesn’t matter, they were still separated by the time of their destruction. Nothing of the sort, they were relatively consistent with one another, where as the standards are set and have been met with calcs and feats, Spriggans are country-large country level from Brandish’s ability to make nations disappear, and with Wall’s feat to back it up and stated all of them scaling to GS, that makes them that level (with August, Larcade, and Irene stronger). Grandine is only mountain as Irene is small continent. Doesn’t change anything as he still used DKDF like before but his flames are more intense. Effecting time would at least be around that point of kugelblistz at least.

 

[Axiomus]

He wasn’t dying when he was a demon though, the demon seed was just changing him into a demon, doesn’t matter, they were still separated by the time of their destruction. Nothing of the sort, they were relatively consistent with one another, where as the standards are set and have been met with calcs and feats, Spriggans are country-large country level from Brandish’s ability to make nations disappear, and with Wall’s feat to back it up and stated all of them scaling to GS, that makes them that level (with August, Larcade, and Irene stronger). Grandine is only mountain as Irene is small continent. Doesn’t change anything as he still used DKDF like before but his flames are more intense. Effecting time would at least be around that point of kugelblistz at least.

Natsu was dying the moment the demon seed started to grow. It doesn't matter if the seeds weren't fully merged. Igneel said that the seeds were attempting to merge into one. Natsu asked Igneel is this was the reason he was dying, and Igneel said yes. So quite frankly, it's completely irrelevant whether the seeds were fully merged or not. Merely attempting to merge the seeds is causing to die. The seeds have been attempting to merge since the demon seed started to grow, waaaaaay back in the aftermath of the fight. Brandish slowed the process by shrinking the demon seed, but the process continued to happen after she enlarged it again. There's absolutely no reason the seeds would stop trying to fuse just because Natsu gained consciousness.

Spoiler: The reason Natsu is dying is because the seeds are ATTEMPTING to merge into one. [IMG

Nothing of the sort, they were relatively consistent with one another, where as the standards are set and have been met with calcs and feats

This statement doesn't even make sense in terms of english. Let's break this down. According to you, Wall is country level because if you measure the size of his beam, assume the its nuclear fusion, and run it through the math of a nuclear yield equation....you would get yield that is equivalent with the force necessary to destroy a country. It's the same with Bluenote here. If you measure the size of Bluenote's black hole, and calculate its mass from its Schwarzschild radius, you get an object that would tear planets apart. The only difference here is you will only accept one of these calculation because it since it suits your agenda.

Nations refer to a group of ethnic people. I can make all the Squamish disappear. Doesn't mean I can blow up Canada. Until Spriggans have shown feats of destroying a country, they can't. They don't even have any solid statements that their attacks can destroy countries. Only August can blow one up with a suicide spell in Ars Magia. Irene can manipulate one with Universe One, but that spell requires prep and is not an attack. Also no matter how you want to scale the size of Fairy Tail's world to ours, the continent of Ishgar is still several times larger than the country of Fiore. Fiore is tiny compared to Ishgar. Face is magic weapon that can defeat every mage on Ishgar. Grandine and the other parent dragons can defeat face. No matter how you spin it, Grandine's feat was simply a larger scale. If Irene used Universe One on Fiore, it would just shrink Fiore. The rest of the faces would still wipe her magic.

Natsu was not in dragon force in his final exchange with Zeref, and DFDK was not the name of his final attack against Zeref. The name of the attack shouldn't even be a debate. The attack Natsu used was 炎竜王の崩拳 (enryu-o no hoken).
炎 (en) = Fire.
竜 (ryu) = Dragon.
王 (o) = King.
の (no) = of.
崩 (ho) = demolition.
拳 (ken) = fist/punch/strike.

Spoiler: Enryu-o no hokken = Fire Dragon's Demolition Fist

 

[WoWfan]

That doesn’t mean anything when Natsu was a demon which means he wasn’t dying then. There is a reason he was dying from his doubt, this became a demon which he wasn’t dying then, he was only dying when he was a human. That is not the correct calculation to use, it is the radiation energy calculation. Which finds the surface area of the body and the temperature needed for nuclear fusion and the emissivity for the body and you get the result. As for BN’s BH, that is only scalable to the person who he fought. In this case, Gildarts, this City Level. Nation are nations, that doesn’t mean anything by your definition as we knew what nations mean, we saw what she can do when not serious to an island (already stronger than Dragons there). To make nations (by your defininition) disappear is less than Street Level. Because composite human (every human to exist) is street+. Which is absolutely nonsense and picking straws. Fiore is as large as the United States by measurement. Doesn’t matter which form he was in, just the technique used which he used the same one twice which the latter worked because of near or totally Kugelblitz

 

[Axiomus]

That doesn’t mean anything when Natsu was a demon which means he wasn’t dying then. There is a reason he was dying from his doubt, this became a demon which he wasn’t dying then, he was only dying when he was a human. That is not the correct calculation to use, it is the radiation energy calculation. Which finds the surface area of the body and the temperature needed for nuclear fusion and the emissivity for the body and you get the result. As for BN’s BH, that is only scalable to the person who he fought. In this case, Gildarts, this City Level. Nation are nations, that doesn’t mean anything by your definition as we knew what nations mean, we saw what she can do when not serious to an island (already stronger than Dragons there). To make nations (by your defininition) disappear is less than Street Level. Because composite human (every human to exist) is street+. Which is absolutely nonsense and picking straws. Fiore is as large as the United States by measurement. Doesn’t matter which form he was in, just the technique used which he used the same one twice which the latter worked because of near or totally Kugelblitz

Being a demon =/= not dying.

If Bluenote scales to Gildarts as city level, then why on earth does Wall not scale to Laxus as city+ level? Wall was defeated by Laxus. His best attack was either Fairy Law (city level) or the nuke he used against Ajeel (mountain level). For Bluenote you just use the radius of his event horizon and the gravitation constant, and you calculate the mass of his black hole. My point still stands, you are cherry picking when to use science and when to ignore it in order to fit your agenda. This is the textbook definition of double standard.

If Brandish destroyed a nation, she wiped out a group of people. You usually can't fit an entire nation within a street. They usually take up a city or two. It's not like everyone would be living like packed sardines. Brandish is weaker than Neinhart, and was taken out by Dimaria using a knife. Just because Brandish can enlarge an island doesn't mean she could beat a dragon. In all likelihood, any dragon with half the strength of Irene would crush her with a single claw swipe.

It's really hard to take you seriously when you keep saying kugelblitz. A kugelblitz is a black hole created by heat. There was no black hole. You can argue that the temperature needed to burn time is planck temperature, and that brings up a whole different can of worms (like Natsu being universal). Either way, the name of his attack was Fire Dragon King's Demolition Fist. Not DFDK or anything like that.

 

[WoWfan]

Being Conscious =/= dying

Laxus trained for a year so he scales higher than what he scales to before (small city - city) after his fight with Jura. Again, calculating an attack is not the only way to determine feats, scaling between other characters as well, for consistency as well. In this case it is the country itself since nation by your definition is a massive downgrade to top real world human level which is not correct in any regard, you don’t get science do you? Destroying a human is street-wall level at least and that makes her at her strongest Wall Level by your logic which is wrong. So stop taking everything literally a dragon is mountain level, and island is greater than mountain level so another proof Spriggans are better than dragons, and another proof is fairy law did not effect any Spriggans. It doesn’t matter because scaling is a thing in the fictional universe so calcs can be tempered with for the sake. No, read back they have the exact same names as before.

 

[Axiomus]

Being Conscious =/= dying

Laxus trained for a year so he scales higher than what he scales to before (small city - city) after his fight with Jura. Again, calculating an attack is not the only way to determine feats, scaling between other characters as well, for consistency as well. In this case it is the country itself since nation by your definition is a massive downgrade to top real world human level which is not correct in any regard. It doesn’t matter because scaling is a thing in the fictional universe so calcs can be tempered with for the sake. No, read back they have the exact same names as before.

Not true. You can be conscious and still dying. Natsu was dying so long as his seeds were trying to fuse.

Why would Laxus training for a year have anything to do with the size of his attacks? We know what Laxus' attacks were like after his training with the nuke he used against Ajeel. Wall's should scale off to that.

A nation of people would be like the Nirvit that created Nirvana. Or like the people living in the country of Stella. If you think a street level human can wipe out an entire nation of other humans....Then I dunno what to say. That's not even true in real life, let alone in a series where people have magic powers to fight with.

Are you saying that because Natsu using FDK Demolition Fist proves Natsu was in dragon force? That doesn't make any sense. I'll recap the events one more time:

• Natsu used an FDK demolition fist in Dragon Force to incinerate Zeref's body.
• Zeref rewinded time, and stabbed Natsu through the chest.
• Lucy rewrote the book of END, and healed Natsu.
• Natsu punched Zeref a couple of times
• Zeref cut Natsu across the body.
• Natsu then gave a speech, and used his feelings towards the guild to launch an FDK Demolition Fist at Zeref. In response, Zeref turned all of his darkness and negative emotions into power for his dark abyss exploding blade. The two attacks clashed and the flames from Natsu's demolition fist started to burn away Zeref's magic, including Fairy Heart's time powers.
• Natsu punched Zeref again to end the fight.

Flames of savage emotions were only created when Natsu turned his feelings towards his guild into magic power. This is even visually shown, because Natsu's guild mark starts glowing when he uses this power. The two last attacks, both the FDK demolition fist and the unnamed punch, used flames of savage emotions. The FDK demolition fist in Dragon Force did not use flames of savage emotions. Neither savage flames or FDK demolition fist are available to Natsu when he's using END's power. END does not even have the attack power of Dragon Force, or arguably even FDK mode.

 

[WoWfan]

No proof from your claim as he was a demon and not a dragon at the time. Sigh, size is not determine the power of attacks, Trunk’s strongest attack only destroyed a mountain top and he was stronger than Mecha Frieza who was stronger than his 100% final form. Your logic does not work. It is true, you deny it just to draw straws which don’t work. Even killing every human on earth at once is only Wall Level. All I proven that they used the same attack in both instances, dragon force or not has nothing to do with this. In short savage flames is not even a real technique just an expression of his flames of emotions, something END is more than capable of doing

 

[GL_Nova]

Being a demon =/= not dying.

If Bluenote scales to Gildarts as city level, then why on earth does Wall not scale to Laxus as city+ level? Wall was defeated by Laxus. His best attack was either Fairy Law (city level) or the nuke he used against Ajeel (mountain level). For Bluenote you just use the radius of his event horizon and the gravitation constant, and you calculate the mass of his black hole. My point still stands, you are cherry picking when to use science and when to ignore it in order to fit your agenda. This is the textbook definition of double standard.

If Brandish destroyed a nation, she wiped out a group of people. You usually can't fit an entire nation within a street. They usually take up a city or two. It's not like everyone would be living like packed sardines. Brandish is weaker than Neinhart, and was taken out by Dimaria using a knife. Just because Brandish can enlarge an island doesn't mean she could beat a dragon. In all likelihood, any dragon with half the strength of Irene would crush her with a single claw swipe.

It's really hard to take you seriously when you keep saying kugelblitz. A kugelblitz is a black hole created by heat. There was no black hole. You can argue that the temperature needed to burn time is planck temperature, and that brings up a whole different can of worms (like Natsu being universal). Either way, the name of his attack was Fire Dragon King's Demolition Fist. Not DFDK or anything like that.

Wait. You think Laxus ESO is city+ level? How? All the Spriggan are on the same tier, and that's confirmed country. An August and Irene both showcased the ability to affect all of Fiore, which has been calced at Small continent. So how do you have him as city+...