Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[WoWfan]

Face only have ranged Hax, no DC to back up your claim. again City is not any better than Mountain level. that only makes the Dragons City Level, and Brandish with no effort effected an entire island, and at max strength, Wall is large Country. again, size is not the issue, calcing the destruction of magnolia is only large town at best from the attempt of Abyss Break. you cannot calc how much energy Face has in DC before destroyed. all of your claim is Hax and not quantifiable. Gray did use his strongest form, which was both black marks and he was fighting to protect others, which is PoF. and still lost and Brandish still effected him. Cana beat Brandish by pure personal weakness, hay fever, and magic requires concentration and mental fortitude. and a slight pinch of comedy thrown in. Did you not read about origins of Curses? All power came form one primordial force "One Magic", including Curses, even Love is not innocent, as love can lead to hatred, jealousy and other negative effects, have you not watched Star Wars? still doesn't prove Lullaby nor Kain's doll are cruse powers, thus explained away. My point that END originating Curses still stand, because Demons do not need to have met END to learn them, just like how Dragon Slayers do not need to learn their magic from Dragons.

 

[Axiomus]

Face only have ranged Hax, no DC to back up your claim. again City is not any better than Mountain level. that only makes the Dragons City Level, and Brandish with no effort effected an entire island, and at max strength, Wall is large Country. again, size is not the issue, calcing the destruction of magnolia is only large town at best from the attempt of Abyss Break. you cannot calc how much energy Face has in DC before destroyed. all of your claim is Hax and not quantifiable. Gray did use his strongest form, which was both black marks and he was fighting to protect others, which is PoF. and still lost and Brandish still effected him. Cana beat Brandish by pure personal weakness, hay fever, and magic requires concentration and mental fortitude. and a slight pinch of comedy thrown in. Did you not read about origins of Curses? All power came form one primordial force "One Magic", including Curses, even Love is not innocent, as love can lead to hatred, jealousy and other negative effects, have you not watched Star Wars? still doesn't prove Lullaby nor Kain's doll are cruse powers, thus explained away. My point that END originating Curses still stand, because Demons do not need to have met END to learn them, just like how Dragon Slayers do not need to learn their magic from Dragons.

If you think the dragons are only city level, then that's just bad math. They didn't just destroy 1 face, they destroyed 3000 of them. Also, the strongest attacks that the Spriggans have are like city block level in terms of pure destruction. Sand World and Brandish's magic are all hax in that case, and they have the largest AoE. Wendy destroyed that face before it activated and the first panel I showed was before Face detonated. That was just face's power breaking up the ground, so I can absolutely calculate the power before its destruction. You can see the level of destruction the magical power of the faces can cause when detonated, so that tells us how much power each face is carrying. If anything, an activated face would be even harder to destroy because it would continue to suck more magic into itself weaken the powers of everyone trying to destroy it.

Gray's strongest form was when he was enraged over Juvia's fake death. That was the darkness in his heart unleashed. If you think Gray was in the same mindset when he was fighting Skarion, then I don't know what else to say. Gray was fighting to save his friends too when he faced Invel with the black marks. In fact, his friends were in more danger back then then they were against Skarion. It just doesn't compare to the PoF he got when he thought Juvia was dead. Natsu's strongest power of feeling is his love for the guild, as shown when he beat Zeref. Gray's strongest power of feelings was his rage over Juvia's death.

Cana beat Brandish because she hit her in the head. I don't care if Brandish had allergies. This doesn't change the fact that she got KO'd by Cana. Acnologia could be motion sick, and nobody would scratch him. Cana wouldn't be able to beat any dragon even if the dragon was sleeping. She'd never get past the scales. Brandish was also beaten by Dimaria with a regular knife. Not any major nuke or even a magic spell.

My point is curses did not come directly from the One Magic. All magics came from the one magic, and then deviated from it. Curses was just one deviation. It's no closer to the One Magic than any other magic. In fact, it's arguably the farthest away from the one magic. It's so different from other magics, that stuff like face won't affect it. Again, none of proves that Kain's doll and Lullaby aren't using curses. The fact that the manga names them curses proves that they're curses. No more proof is really needed unless you want to ignore what the manga tells us.

The dragon slayers who learned dragon slaying magic either had a dragon teach them, or implanted a crystal with dragon lacrima into their body, or ate a dragon's power. Or in the rare case, learned from a book that a dragon or dragon slayer wrote. The first 3 is basically impossible. END wasn't around to teach, they didn't implant parts of END into themselves, and they certainly didn't eat him. Which leaves END writing a book. The only way END could have wrote a book about how to use curses is if it was smarter than Natsu because Natsu refused to read or write to begin with. Highly unlikely given Natsu's behavior when he was using END's power. The demons of Tartarus all had their curse power as their main powers in their etherious forms, which is actually their true form. Their curse power is part of their biology.

 

[WoWfan]

hey, you said they were at city level, not me, I simply pointed out that City level is less than Mountain level which you downgraded parent dragons. they did not destroy them all simultaneously nor did they have the feat to obliterate them all at once which would be DC but would destroy the continent itself. actually looking back on it, the explosion seems very in consistent and even small to actually calc, but you mus divide by how much energy is in the explosion verses what is in the air blast. destroying face was only Large Building level, Wendy only got to small city level level is for defeating Ezel. Gray used PoF, which is the same as what he used for fighting Ash DS plus black marks, he was fighting for others so that is his strongest, adding to the fact he was physically and magically fine compared to his time with END. Cana only won by Brandish getting sick, became physically weak, unfocused and for comedy, you should care as Magic requires focus, strong mind, you are basically ignoring the facts from FT lore, Dragons were not in the same condition as Brandish and they have Magic Immune Scales, you cannot compare such situations. and as a Demon, Natsu's greatest power is his negative feelings such as Hatred, but since he was not full END, his power was incomplete. Curses did come from the One Magic, that is how it got deviated from it, just like how Black Arts and other magic comes in different flavors. you prove nothing, nothing suggests that all demons use curses, you have nothing to back that up. wrong as Wendy self taught herself New Dragon Slayer abilities before the GMG, though granted it was from Grandine, but not directly, so no, it can be self taught. You are wrong again, it is simply the negative emotions and energy of nothing that are necessary of Curse Power.

 

[Axiomus]

hey, you said they were at city level, not me, I simply pointed out that City level is less than Mountain level which you downgraded parent dragons. they did not destroy them all simultaneously nor did they have the feat to obliterate them all at once which would be DC but would destroy the continent itself. actually looking back on it, the explosion seems very in consistent and even small to actually calc, but you mus divide by how much energy is in the explosion verses what is in the air blast. destroying face was only Large Building level, Wendy only got to small city level level is for defeating Ezel. Gray used PoF, which is the same as what he used for fighting Ash DS plus black marks, he was fighting for others so that is his strongest, adding to the fact he was physically and magically fine compared to his time with END. and as a Demon, Natsu's greatest power is his negative feelings such as Hatred, but since he was not full END, his power was incomplete. Curses did come from the One Magic, that is how it got deviated from it, just like how Black Arts and other magic comes in different flavors. you prove nothing, nothing suggests that all demons use curses, you have nothing to back that up. wrong as Wendy self taught herself New Dragon Slayer abilities before the GMG, though granted it was from Grandine, but not directly, so no, it can be self taught. You are wrong again, it is simply the negative emotions and energy of nothing that are necessary of Curse Powe

No. If you think the parent dragons are city level, it would still be your bad math. I never said the dragons were city level. I said each one of the face bombs were at least city level. The dragons destroyed 3000 of those things. So obviously they destroyed more magical power than it would take to wipe out a single city. The dragons destroyed 3000 of these within a couple of minutes, and sometimes destroyed multiple faces in one attack when they were close enough together. There's no Spriggan that has shown attacks even close to destroying 2 cities at once. The magical power behind it is what was caused the explosion. Destroying the physical form of face doesn't make Wendy city level. Defeating Ezel doesn't either. The dragons actually had to destroy the magic behind face to shut it down. Dividing by the air blast? Ooooh come on! The amount of reaching here is absurd. First of all, dividing the energy of an explosion by the air blast makes no sense. Secondly, they were underground, which is just about the least energy conserving method of detonation there is. The manga shows us what the explosion looks like. A blast of this magnitude would wipe out the city of Magnolia (which is larger than the mountains surrounding it). No amount of lowballing will change this.

At this point you are just outright ignoring everything the manga shows, and just saying the opposite. Gray was at his strongest when he was enraged over Juvia's death, not when he was fighting Invel with his black marks. Gray was fighting to his friends from Invel's ice at that time, so fighting for his friends was not Gray at his strongest. Moreover, Gray isn't even fighting to save his friends right now. He's fighting to protect the water dragon god. As far as Gray knew, Erza and Natsu were stomping the other 5th gens. Conversely, Natsu's greatest power was the love that he had for his guild. Natsu literally tells us this was his greatest power, and in the speech that inspired him Makarov even tells him not to bring anger or hatred into a fight. The chapter is even named "Greatest Power", not "2nd Greatest Power, except for END's demonic power that is the exact opposite of what this chapter is about". I am tired of arguing against your fanfiction.

Bottom line: If the manga says something is a curse, then it's a curse. END did not invent curses because people whose had no interaction with END can use curses as part of their biology. Wendy did not teach herself the new magic. Grandine told Porlyusica to write a book with the knowledge of how to use the magic. This is just an indirect way for Grandine to teach Wendy. The knowledge of how to use dragon slaying magic still came from a dragon. END didn't write any books for the Tartarus Demons. Natsu didn't even know how to read and write, and END's power made somehow made Natsu's language skills worse lol. END's powers also doesn't include use any of the curses that the Tartarus demons used, so how would he teach them?

 

[WoWfan]

why are you insisting that Parent Dragons are weaker than Regular Dragons? are you that unaware of how scaling works? hardly bad math, it is the proper means of calculating almost any feat, you are just going fanboy on how things are scaled. Spriggans are simply Large Country-Small Continent via logic and science, get over it and move on. If by crazy cosmic reasoning you are correct (which you are not) taking out one Face does not make them continent level, that simply puts them at City Level, which they destroyed multiple Faces one after the other, not the entirety of the continent which contains the faces, but only scale to Mountain level via regular dragons, nowhere near Spriggan level in any regard. yes it does because that is how scaling works, she defeated one of the Demon Gates, who Natsu struggled against as well. Oh No, you do not get to use the word "reaching", "Ignoring" here, you burned that bridge a long time ago, you simply do not have the faintest idea how scaling works, go away and do something that you are better at, which is annoying other people, because I am getting tired of explaining this to you. and Gray was at his strongest with both Black Marks and PoF which is what he did with Ash DS. As we both agree that PoF is the main power source for magic in general, Gray was fighting to protect others since the Ash Dragon Slayer threatened the others. No one taught Wendy those new Dragon Slayer Magics except for Wendy, writing down does not make Grandine the teacher, I can self learn history or any form of information just by reading and the authors are not the teachers, they just provide the means of learning. it's called Autodidacticism, you never heard of it? huh. Again, Demons can learn things by themselves, They do not have to learn it from others, just like Wendy does not have to learn DS spells from Grandine. Natsu mindset =/= END, again you don't have to learn magic from books all the time, just need the necessities like energy of nothing and negative emotions.

 

[Axiomus]

why are you insisting that Parent Dragons are weaker than Regular Dragons? are you that unaware of how scaling works? hardly bad math, it is the proper means of calculating almost any feat, you are just going fanboy on how things are scaled. Spriggans are simply Large Country-Small Continent via logic and science, get over it and move on. If by crazy cosmic reasoning you are correct (which you are not) taking out one Face does not make them continent level, that simply puts them at City Level, which they destroyed multiple Faces one after the other, not the entirety of the continent which contains the faces, but only scale to Mountain level via regular dragons, nowhere near Spriggan level in any regard. yes it does because that is how scaling works, she defeated one of the Demon Gates, who Natsu struggled against as well. Oh No, you do not get to use the word "reaching", "Ignoring" here, you burned that bridge a long time ago, you simply do not have the faintest idea how scaling works, go away and do something that you are better at, which is annoying other people, because I am getting tired of explaining this to you. and Gray was at his strongest with both Black Marks and PoF which is what he did with Ash DS. As we both agree that PoF is the main power source for magic in general, Gray was fighting to protect others since the Ash Dragon Slayer threatened the others. No one taught Wendy those new Dragon Slayer Magics except for Wendy, writing down does not make Grandine the teacher, I can self learn history or any form of information just by reading and the authors are not the teachers, they just provide the means of learning. it's called Autodidacticism, you never heard of it? huh. Again, Demons can learn things by themselves, They do not have to learn it from others, just like Wendy does not have to learn DS spells from Grandine. Natsu mindset =/= END, again you don't have to learn magic from books all the time, just need the necessities like energy of nothing and negative emotions.

Nobody is insisting that the parent dragons are weaker than the GMG dragons. You just have a habit of claiming people are sayin the opposite of what they said. You know what I said. Cities like Magnolia and Crocus are larger than mountains which surround them. The explosion that I showed in that panel would blow up the city of Magnolia, and it would blow up a mountain too. Overall, the faces have enough power to wipe out all the magic on the continent. Which is a feat no Spriggan can do, or overcome. The dragons have the power to overcome this power.

Oh please, I'm not the one scaling Elfman and Lisanna as country level. If you really want to adhere to science, then you should accept every scientific calculation. Not just cherry pick the calcs that suits your agenda. Also it would do you good not to make up stuff like dividing energy by airblast in an attempt to sound scientific. Reaching would be giving END powers he does not have. Ignoring would be pretending the narrative text and Zeref haven't confirmed that Igneel's power would have killed him.

For the last time, Gray was at his strongest when he was enraged over Juvia's death. He was fighting to protect his friends and had black marks when he fought Invel the first time, and he still lost. This right there proves that Gray's power of feelings over Juvia's death was stronger than his power of feelings when trying to protect his friends. Also, Gray was not fighting to protect his friends against the Ash Dragon. He had no way of knowing his friends were in danger. For all Gray knew, they were winning their fights. Gray was fighting to complete his mission for the 100 years quest. There was no major PoF boost.

Buddy, if you learned history from a book, then you learned that knowledge from whoever wrote that book. You didn't get that knowledge from staring blankly at a wall. Wendy didn't learn how to use her spells from nowhere, she got the knowledge from a book that Grandine authored. If Grandine hadn't wrote that book, it would have been impossible for Wendy to learn milky way on her own. You are also missing the entire point: END didn't write any books for the Tartarus members to learn from. Wendy learning from a book that Grandine wrote =/= Demons learning curses from END from nothing.

 

[WoWfan]

But you said that face explosion is city level thus you insist that the dragons are at that level because they manage to destroy the face. Like I said, destroying Magnolia is only equal to large town, not even mountain size from calcing. Even with 60 thousand people that is enough to fill a large town. Again, not equal to DC with Face, it is Hax. Forget that stealing is a thing for consistency which, you are saying that consistency should be thrown out the window just because you want to prove a point, that’s just sad of you. And for the equation, you have to do that when you see how debris fly outward from an explosion, a nuclear weapon fire ball contains 40-50% of the actual energy where the rest is airblast, common knowledge, shame on you for not knowing it, W = R^3*((27136*P + 8649)^(1/2)/13568 - 93/13568)^2. And for the last time, Gray was that a strong as when he fought the ash dragon slayer because he had PoF, black marks and he is in perfect condition one fighting, so no you are wrong. He literally stated that Ash’s attack would harm the others. Go away. That is called self taught, you do not learn directly from someone, you learn it through some form of media on your own. Writing a book is not the same as teaching someone something. I learn information all on my own, A Book cannot speak, nor gesture to you to visually comprehend, so it is self taught. Tartarus learned their curses themselves, END just originate the curses.

 

[Axiomus]

But you said that face explosion is city level thus you insist that the dragons are at that level because they manage to destroy the face. Like I said, destroying Magnolia is only equal to large town, not even mountain size from calcing. Even with 60 thousand people that is enough to fill a large town. Again, not equal to DC with Face, it is Hax. Forget that stealing is a thing for consistency which, you are saying that consistency should be thrown out the window just because you want to prove a point, that’s just sad of you. And for the last time, Gray was that a strong as when he fought the ash dragon slayer because he had PoF, black marks and he is in perfect condition one fighting, so no you are wrong. He literally stated that Ash’s attack would harm the others. Go away. That is called self taught, you do not learn directly from someone, you learn it through some form of media on your own. Writing a book is not the same as teaching someone something. I learn information all on my own. Tartarus learned their curses themselves, END just originate the curses. Go away

Did you just ignore everything I just posted? I said the explosion was city level with the knowledge that cities like FIore and Crocus are larger than mountain, because a city like Crocus is literally surrounded by a mountain range and the city is larger than those mountains. In any case, that explosion that the face created was clearly larger than the mountains in its surroundings too. I did not say the dragons were city level. I said the explosion of ONE of the faces would destroy a city and that the dragons destroyed 3000 faces. None of the Spriggans can destroy 3000 cities at once. None of the Spriggans can wipe out all magic on the continent of Isghar, or have any type of hax that could affect the continent of Ishgar. None of the Spriggans can defeat face..

No, Gray wasn't as strong as Skarion as he was against Invel. As I've said countless time now, Gray was at his strongest when he was enraged at Juvia's death, not when he was fighting to protect his friends. The rage he had for Juvia's death made him stronger against Invel than his will to protect Juvia, Natsu, Lucy, and Happy. Gray did not have the same mindset against Skarion. Sure, he wasn't injured....but that doesn't outweigh the power boost from his power of feelings. And again, proving that Gray is weaker than Brandish (not that I believe this) doesn't make END more impressive. It just makes END look weaker for stalemating an opponent that Brandish could easily beat. In any case, this was Gray's shape when Brandish must have shrunk him. This is far from the best shape he's ever been in. He was in the process of getting turned to ash (which would later wound him enough to KO him). He's not even in his demon markings. Skarions attack shocked him out of it.

Spoiler: Gray vs Skarion

Look, Wendy learned her dragon slayer magic from Grandine. Grandine taught her using words, did she not? The only difference between that and teaching Wendy through a book is whether the words are spoken or written. Wendy still learnt how to do her dragon slaying magic from the knowledge that was passed down from Grandine. END passed no such knowledge down for the demons. If END was the first to use curses and the demons just figured it out themselves afterwards, then that still would have meant Zeref created a bunch of powerless demons to kill him. Either way, it's still a silly scenario.

 

[WoWfan]

you have no proof it is city level since you did not make the calculation for it, and from the look of the image it is way smaller than a city, you can see trees and such. Crocus and Magnolia are two different examples with their own sizes, Magnolia is not even that large, destroying it is large town level at best. Nor can any dragon destroy all the faces at once, they have to do it one at a time. the Parent Dragons only scale to regular Dragons, where as Spriggans scale higher by comparison. They are literally stated to scale to one another (With the exception of August, Irene and Larcade who scale higher), and Wall's attack is scale to Country to Large Country. Gray is as strong as he was when he fought Invel, with the exception of physical condition, Gray's concern for his friends is his power as well as that is how magic works (even said so in the fight), darkness is just another variant that he can access, No, his will to protect Juvia is what overpowered Invel's magic first time, he was even able to pull off Iced Shell which could have sealed Zeref away, he did which is he still lost and was still effected by Brandish, thus proving that END is stronger than when he first appeared, thank you for proving my point. And he still had his demon marks while being "turned to ash" but since he wasn't, you cannot use that excuse to further your point since he was not injured when Brandish shrunk him. that is correct, all the other Demons could not kill Zeref, only END can, thank you for accepting that, the demons did not have curses until Tartaros. Wendy self taught, if Grandine was there to verbally and physically teach her that is different, but a book cannot do that, words cannot talk to her nor teach her, she has to learn them on her own, so that is self taught, she has to learn it herself because no one else would.

 

[Axiomus]

you have no proof it is city level since you did not make the calculation for it, and from the look of the image it is way smaller than a city, you can see trees and such. Crocus and Magnolia are two different examples with their own sizes, Magnolia is not even that large, destroying it is large town level at best. Nor can any dragon destroy all the faces at once, they have to do it one at a time. the Parent Dragons only scale to regular Dragons, where as Spriggans scale higher by comparison. They are literally stated to scale to one another (With the exception of August, Irene and Larcade who scale higher), and Wall's attack is scale to Country to Large Country. Gray is as strong as he was when he fought Invel, with the exception of physical condition, Gray's concern for his friends is his power as well as that is how magic words, darkness is just another variant that he can access, No, his will to protect Juvia is what overpowered Invel's magic, he was even able to pull off Iced Shell which could have sealed Zeref away, he did which is he still lost and was still effected by Brandish, thus proving that END is stronger than when he first appeared, thank you for proving my point. that is correct, all the other Demons could not kill Zeref, only END can, thank you for accepting that, the demons did not have curses until Tartaros. Wendy self taught, if Grandine was there to verbally and physically teach her that is different, but a book cannot do that, words cannot talk to her nor teach her, she has to learn them on her own, so that is self taught, she has to learn it herself because no one else would.

Calculation when you can clearly see from its size that it would blow up a city? Those are not individual trees. Those are entire strips of forest. It only took a few minutes for the dragons to destroy the faces. The dragons can destroy the faces in rapid succession, and sometimes multiple faces at once. They could destroy the faces faster than Erza could beat Ajeel. If a Spriggan were fighting a dragon, they would be oneshotted several times in a minute.

Gray was fighting to protect Juvia when he got ice locked. Couldn't stop Invel's mind control from working. Then Juvia "died" and Gray went into a rage, and none of Invel's magic was working on him anymore. Rage over Juvia's death made him stronger than trying to protect everyone. Iced Shell alone wouldn't have stopped Zeref. Gray needed to add the lost element to it, which required sacrificing every trace of his existence. And what do you mean Gray wasn't injured? He's out cold right now? Brandish's magic doesn't knock people out, so Skarion's attack obviously injured Gray. It shocked him out of his devil marks and rendered him unconscious. Lost Iced Shell may very well be stronger than Gray's enraged PoF, but Brandish shrunk neither. None of this proves END was ever stronger than when he fought Gray. No version of END stronger than the version that fought Gray ever showed up in the manga.

Bottom line is that Wendy could only learn the magic because Grandine left behind instructions on how to learn it. Wendy didn't just figure out how to use the magic out of nowhere. It was still Grandine's knowledge and words that taught Wendy how to use the magic. Only Grandine's words were written down instead of spoken. Books cannot talk, but they can be read. END never left behind any instructions for the demons for the demons to follow. Nor have the demons ever communicated directly with END in any way. If they figured out how to use curses by themselves, that would have been long after Zeref went ahead with the Eclipse plan. That meant that he created the demons at Tartarus to kill him without giving them any real powers. Which would be a very silly thing to do. What is far more likely is that curse power was simply part of an etherious biology.

 

[WoWfan]

it doesn't look even bigger than a large town, since you can see patches of trees around, though I am asking someone to calc it, so I will provide the results later. Rapid succession does not make their DC any higher than "Large Building", I am saying that because Face cannot be calced for DC besides self destruct which is not what they did. The Dragons do not have the power to put them down, you are comparing Mountain to Large Country level characters, the only thing stopping the Dragons from downing is their Dragon Scales, and God Serena has that covered. Gray literally stopped Invel's mind control from working, even for a moment, that shows how strong his PoF is, even comparable, even comparable to when he used the darkness. It would have stopped Zeref, that is why he was using it, which showed how much power it had. Brandish did shrunk him however when he was using his power of feelings. That is why END is stronger than when he appeared, and he never fully transformed so he was not a full power, the proof is obvious even someone like you could see it, but i was wrong about that. No, Wendy could learn any magic as long as it is written down, it doesn't matter what, Grandine told Porly to write it down, so she write the book, not Grandine, so you are wrong yet again, Wendy self taught since words and letters cannot talk to her, so she must teach herself. even Cherlia learned God Slayer magic from a scroll. you need to learn when to quit when your behind. the Demons learned how to use curses themselves, END using curses as well doesn't mean he has to teach others how to use curses, they just need to know of it's existence. The Demons never had any power to begin with, even after learning the curses, only END had the power to do so, that is why he was a success.

 

[Axiomus]

it doesn't look even bigger than a large town, since you can see patches of trees around, though I am asking someone to calc it, so I will provide the results later. Rapid succession does not make their DC any higher than "Large Building", I am saying that because Face cannot be calced for DC besides self destruct which is not what they did. The Dragons do not have the power to put them down, you are comparing Mountain to Large Country level characters, the only thing stopping the Dragons from downing is their Dragon Scales, and God Serena has that covered. Gray literally stopped Invel's mind control from working, even for a moment, that shows how strong his PoF is, even comparable, even comparable to when he used the darkness. It would have stopped Zeref, that is why he was using it, which showed how much power it had. Brandish did shrunk him however when he was using his power of feelings. That is why END is stronger than when he appeared, and he never fully transformed so he was not a full power, the proof is obvious even someone like you could see it, but i was wrong about that. No, Wendy could learn any magic as long as it is written down, it doesn't matter what, Grandine told Porly to write it down, so she write the book, not Grandine, so you are wrong yet again, Wendy self taught since words and letters cannot talk to her, so she must teach herself. even Cherlia learned God Slayer magic from a scroll. you need to learn when to quit when your behind. the Demons learned how to use curses themselves, END using curses as well doesn't mean he has to teach others how to use curses, they just need to know of it's existence. The Demons never had any power to begin with, even after learning the curses, only END had the power to do so, that is why he was a success.

You could see strips of forest surrounding Tenrou Island too, and that's an island. You can see patches of forest when Gildarts destroyed a mountain too. Face has enough magic power to blow a city (or a mountain, whatever you like) proves that the dragons are above large building. The dragons destroyed 3000 of them. The Spriggans have no DC feats higher than city block level btw. Their biggest feats are either Brandish enlarging an Island (island level feat) or Ajeel's sand world (city level). Both of these feats have zero DC behind them, and are in fact hax. The faces might not have the power to blow up the entire continent, but it's still magic that can wipe out all magic from said continent. More impressive than what any Spriggan can do, more than enough to take out every Spriggan at once. The parent dragons can beat face. The Spriggans can't.

Spoiler: Gildarts destroying a mountain

Gray's PoF didn't stop ice lock from working. It only resisted it long enough for Gray to commit suicide. If it were on the level of his darkness, he would have smashed the ice and beat Invel to a pulp....like he did with Invel later on. Iced shell on its own would not have stopped Zeref. Gray needed a stronger version of iced shell, which is why he added the lost element to create lost iced shell. Once again, Gray being weaker than Brandish doesn't prove END was stronger. It makes END look weaker. END was as powerful as it possibly could have been with the emotions Natsu was feeling at that time, and the most powerful version we ever saw in all 525 chapters. It was impossible for Natsu to become a full demon if he didn't go into his heart to make a choice.

What are you talking about? Of course Wendy can learn any magic if it were written down. Nobody is arguing against that, nor is it the slightest bit relevant to the conversation. Grandine told Polyusica what to write. Porlyusica was a glorified typewriter. Grandine was still the author of the book, she just needed Porlyusica to write down the words. Wendy could only learn the dragon slaying magic because Grandine had the knowledge of it, and found a way to communicate that knowledge to Wendy. END never had any form of communication with the demons of Tartarus. He couldn't possibly have taught them how to use curses. Zeref would not create powerless demons to try to kill him. Whether or not they ultimately failed is irrelevant.

 

[WoWfan]

Wait until someone calcs that face explosion and then we will see. Brandish shrank an entire island, and that is her not even taking It seriously, Island > Mountain, so there and all Spriggans are the same level as her in terms of Country level energy abilities. Face has no real feat besides draining magic (hax) and self destruct and that is not scalable to anything. Dragons only scale to Dragons, mountain level. And that is a feat because of PoF, anyone and everyone (besides Natsu) PoF cannot be measured in units (that is utterly absurd, you either have it or not. Gray used that in his strongest state in his top condition against Ashe DS and was still effected by Brandish. No, END was only as powerful as it was from it’s incomplete state, in full power it is much stronger. He was slowly becoming a full demon, that means he is making a choice. and that is the reason why Zeref has END created, to kill him. So you agree that Wendy self taught with the new magic she learned, good. The only credit the dragon had in all this is simply narrating the instructions to have Porly write down, not teaching her, learning that the spells only go to Wendy. Author is not the same as teacher, even a word guy like Fried knows this and he is a Laxus fanatic should know the difference. Again, END did not have any need to communicate, the demons alerted them selves and that is all there is to it.

 

[Loke]

It was every weapon Erza possessed. Erza doesn't just possess generic swords. Why would Acnologia's attack be garbage? Acnologia was trying to kill them with that attack. Jellal didn't push Acnologia all the way to the ravines, but he got some distance. Acnologia was also eating his magic and managed to grab him. Natsu was POF boosted when he fought Neinhart. Gave a nakama speech and everything. Just because Natsu isn't at flames of savage emotions level all the time doesn't mean he's not using power of feelings. Acnologia was playing with the dragon slayers until Natsu gave the speech about dragons being kind. Then he attacked Natsu seriously, and Natsu blocked it when Wendy enchanted everyone's power into him.

Why would my logic dictate that Cana is stronger than anyone? Cana's card magic was easily dodged by August. It only landed because Gildarts was holding August down, and even then it was easily tanked. August actually used some impressive attacks to finish of Jellal's group, which were a lot more impressive than tagging Cana with "meteor". I don't think Cana would have taken any real hits from August. I think she would have died if Gildarts hadn't stopped August from poking her with his stick, or if she had been hit with the Spiral Pain attack August used against Jellal's group. I consider Jellal's performance against Acnologia was more impressive than Laxus' attack because his hits had more knockback. I don't consider anything Cana's done to August as being more impressive than what Jellal has done. August had the magic of everyone in CS when he fought Jellal, including Cobra's mind reading, racer's ability to slow time, and Midnight's refraction. He would have been much harder to land hits on, compared to when he fought Cana and Gildarts.

All feats are valid to me. People have different opinions on what is PIS. If we exclude every feat that someone would consider PIS, we'd have to exclude half the feats from the manga. Some people consider Laxus' red lightning as PIS. I don't make a distinction between what feats are PIS or not.

Then every DS forcibly shattered RT Acno's pillars and are above Jellal in terms of magic power. Even Wendy.

 

[Axiomus]

Then every DS forcibly shattered RT Acno's pillars and are above Jellal in terms of magic power. Even Wendy.

Why would that be the case? I mean, I'll be happy to accept this if you can explain to me why breaking out of the pillars is a major feat. But Natsu shattered the pillars accidentally when Wendy healed his arm.

 

[Loke]

Why would that be the case? I mean, I'll be happy to accept this if you can explain to me why breaking out of the pillars is a major feat. But Natsu shattered the pillars accidentally when Wendy healed his arm.

I fail to see why it wouldn't be a feat. They were bound by magic greater than anything Jellal had faced prior. Are you implying Wendy healed him prior to freeing herself first? Because that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Plus Natsu even asked them how they escaped to which they responded with the usual friendship stuff save for Laxus (thank god)

 

[Axiomus]

I fail to see why it wouldn't be a feat. They were bound by magic greater than anything Jellal had faced prior. Are you implying Wendy healed him prior to freeing herself first? Because that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Plus Natsu even asked them how they escaped to which they responded with the usual friendship stuff save for Laxus (thank god)

Obviously Wendy would have had to free herself first, but the amount of power it took Natsu to break out of the crystal himself wasn't very much. It was the fireball he created when Wendy healed his arm. So would that fireball have more power than all of Jellal's magical power? I'm not really one to argue against Natsu being OP, but in this case it seems a bit much. The dragon slayers were hearing the voices of their loved ones, which gave them power. I'm not sure whose voice Laxus heard, but he probably heard someone's voice unless he has no loved ones. This isn't really a metaphor either, because Natsu was actually talking to Lucy when he was fighting Acnologia.

 

[Loke]

Obviously Wendy would have had to free herself first, but the amount of power it took Natsu to break out of the crystal himself wasn't very much. It was the fireball he created when Wendy healed his arm. So would that fireball have more power than all of Jellal's magical power? I'm not really one to argue against Natsu being OP, but in this case it seems a bit much. The dragon slayers were hearing the voices of their loved ones, which gave them power. I'm not sure whose voice Laxus heard, but he probably heard someone's voice unless he has no loved ones. This isn't really a metaphor either, because Natsu was actually talking to Lucy when he was fighting Acnologia.

Well..Natsu is already above Jellal's magical power without fireballs..given that he lolburnstime with just his fist. But yeah I'm mainly arguing it simply being a better feat than anything Jellal has done. RT Acno was so powerful that he was forced to split himself between body and soul. This massive increase shouldn't be overlooked. Why wouldn't this carry over to his spells? And the "strength" they lent couldn't have been anything beyond emotional support. An actual physical buff is out of the question. They were on an entirely different plane of existence.

 

[Kiki]

Is Brandish stronger than the Dragon Eaters since she casually negated Skullion's magic?

 

[WoWfan]

Is Brandish stronger than the Dragon Eaters since she casually negated Skullion's magic?

I don’t think she negated the Dragon Eater’s attack, she just shrank Gray at his full strength