Discussion NNT versus thread

[HereNThere]

So do you wanna really challenge me to this?? ok the fact that this panel based on official translation LITERALLY said the idea of mael's limit in that form because of commandments clearly debunks your point of wanking king and nitpicking every info that you came across without analyzing them.

Sure, I got some time on my hands.

Seems to me that panel says that, because he over exerted himself physically and magically, the Commandments are now able to erode at his body as he no longer has the strength to keep them in check, not that the Commandments were responsible for him being being physically and magically spent. Seeing as this conclusion was arrived to only after he was physically beaten by King and after he had spent a whole lot of magic trying to attack and fend him off, it seems more likely that the adverse effects of the Commandments on his body only came in at the tail end.

No... you MIGHT THINK king's guardians and chastiefol is consist of physical objects but the fact that KINGS magic RELIES on the idea of forms of true spirit spear chastiefol. His first form and until his final focuses on the idea of his magic, so idk where you got it's phsical attacks when all of them are imbedded with his magic as the fairy king. NOTHING ever suggests that those are physical attacks. in chapter 238 chandler uses full counter against the first form of his triue spirit and yet it was countered and that 1st form has the same mechanic as the guardian which is a physical object. You're forgetting the fact king surrounds every weapon that he has with magic which debunks your argument of that.As you're aware fairy kings including gloxinnia DOES not have physical strength as their arsenal or their PL. they use magical attacks and enhncement to be capable of doing anything because of their magics increasing their physical strength, but raw physical strength they have 0.

No, they are physical. Especially Guardian, which is his go to when he needs to inflict raw physical damage on an opponent. Chastiefol reacts to King's magic, not the other way around. If it were, Mel would've been capable of using Full Counter on their training sticks during the Druid arc, which he wasn't able to, despite King using his magic to control the stick. What his magic is responsible for is choosing the various forms Chastiefol takes, be it the purely energy Luminescent Ball or the clearly physical Guardian. What makes it unique is that Chastiefol can have it both ways depending on the situation. First Form and Increase seem to be a mix of both magical and physical, which is why it's also susceptible to Full Counter. Everything we've seen about Guardian, however, implies that it isn't like those others and, thus, wouldn't have such a weakness and would most likely be able to take on DK without issue. Of course, I can't prove that Guardian doesn't have magical nature in it's attacks, but I don't think you can prove it does, so...like King and Zeldris, we're at an impasse. King's personal physical ability is not even a factor in the discussion. King ain't going to weak arm Zeldris into submission.

So assuming first form and second form being physical attacks is plain faulty when all of kings attack is imebdded with magic and if it was physical attack then THAT JUST MEANS his magic had the capability of making second form strong on its attacks WHICH IS STILL MAGICAL ATTACK.

Nah.

 

[Ger]

Seems to me that panel says that, because he over exerted himself physically and magically, the Commandments are now able to erode at his body as he no longer has the strength to keep them in check, not that the Commandments were responsible for him being being physically and magically spent.

HEADCANON. why you ask? the fact that it was clearly in the panel "He's used up all of his magical and physical strength he'll be eroded by the commandments and disappear" also you forgot the fact that there's the word "discordant", which clearly makes my argument stronger in this whole debate. If you can prove to me that mael NEVER got weakened using factual evidence then i would like to see it. At this point you're arguing against facts and you're making assumptions and giving arbitrary interpretation on what they meant, when there's no arguing what it means.

Seeing as this conclusion was arrived to only after he was physically beaten by King and after he had spent a whole lot of magic trying to attack and fend him off, it seems more likely that the adverse effects of the Commandments on his body only came in at the tail end.

Again with another assumption. If him using all his magical attacks such as using all abilities of the absorbed commandments and his light of salvation he would've been weaker earlier since he has used it as much as he did when he became one with 4 commandments. The fact king even implied that the commandments are disagreeing with mael and trying to eat his very being and that's when commandments started to rebel which showcase mael's limitation at that point. NOTHING points out that king did all of this with his power where he was at his limit.

No, they are physical. Especially Guardian, which is his go to when he needs to inflict raw physical damage on an opponent. Chastiefol reacts to King's magic, not the other way around. If it were, Mel would've been capable of using Full Counter on their training sticks during the Druid arc, which he wasn't able to, despite King using his magic to control the stick. What his magic is responsible for is choosing the various forms Chastiefol takes, be it the purely energy Luminescent Ball or the clearly physical Guardian. What makes it unique is that Chastiefol can have it both ways depending on the situation. First Form and Increase seem to be a mix of both magical and physical, which is why it's also susceptible to Full Counter. Everything we've seen about Guardian, however, implies that it isn't like those others and, thus, wouldn't have such a weakness and would most likely be able to take on DK without issue. Of course, I can't prove that Guardian doesn't have magical nature in it's attacks, but I don't think you can prove it does, so...like King and Zeldris, we're at an impasse. King's personal physical ability is not even a factor in the discussion. King ain't going to weak arm Zeldris into submission.

Alright so let me debunk this whole idea that you're making headcanons without evidence.

"Mel would've been capable of using FC on their training sticks during the Druid arc". Again this is meliodas who DOES NOT TRY IN THIS SPARRING match. let me give you the evidence of it, King used disaster which is a magical thing where he increases the usage of his magic but yet when he hit meliodas with it, meliodas didn't even use revenge counter. Meliodas in sparring DOES NOT use FC in his character, if king was an enemy it would be different, so why would meliodas try and counter that while they're just sparring??

This panel simplifies that him going to release his sacred treasure which is chastiefol the fact gloxinnia proves the idea that his magic is increasing and his attacks IS CLEARLY BASED ON MAGICAL attacks not physical. Which guidebook clearly proves the fact he has no physical strength but rather magical strength where he can use many forms of chastiefol.

This panel suggests from both of their comments that he used disaster to draw out true power of the holy tree WHICH in fairy realm IT IS a magical thing not physical object. nothing supports your evidence that all of his chastiefol forms are different where there can be physical attacks, which would contradict the idea of holy tree and its mechanic. The comment from Guila even proves my point that chastiefol is a sacred tree found in fairy realm and the fact that gloxinnia and Guila's comment literally connects to one another as the chastiefol being a magical weapon and disaster capable of drawing out its potential making different for is clearly the factual evidence. Unless you have more proof to back it up then i would likely to see it.

So since you brought up "guardian did a physical damage" what does that even mean? what english is that, what logic is this??? The fact every magical attack being hit towards the opponent as long as the weapon is embedded by magic clearly viewpoints this idea.

This panel is the prime EXAMPLE of physical attack, escanor's attakc at hand was stated having no trace of magic on it which means that if YOU EMBED your weapon with magic it would be considered a magical attack.

Another proof of this is when he used fifth form of chastiefol it's a physical object but yet chandler countered it, hence like i said before being embedded with magic would make that object a magical attack, this is no matter of assumption, theory. This is mere facts regarding the lore of fairy kings in the past and kings power in its own concept on what it is, which i showed many times that holy tree is magic itself to fairies.

 

[sobreno]

Attacks dont have to be pure physical or pure magical, they can be both and King's Guardian likely is.

Ban
Ban
Ban
Ban
King
Escanor

Escanor the One has no way to put down Post Purgatory Ban, he easily outlast him with his sheer improved instant best Regeneration in the manga by far, new level of pain tolerance and best immortality of the manga. Actually, I believe no one can put him down by mere brute strength except literally bypassing his immortal body regeneration. You can however put him momentary down but you are just delaying the inevitable recovery of his body which should far faster than before thanks to his journey to Purgatory.

Only Meliodas is proved to actually have the " ability " to bypass his immortal body as later confirmed by him in Purgatory again.

No one can kill him except Meliodas in reality.

 

[Kay3795]

Escanor the One has no way to put down Post Purgatory Ban, he easily outlast him with his sheer improved instant best Regeneration in the manga by far, new level of pain tolerance and best immortality of the manga. Actually, I believe no one can put him down by mere brute strength except literally bypassing his immortal body regeneration. You can however put him momentary down but you are just delaying the inevitable recovery of his body which should far faster than before thanks to his journey to Purgatory.

Only Meliodas is proved to actually have the " ability " to bypass his immortal body as later confirmed by him in Purgatory again.

No one can kill him except Meliodas in reality.

That's why I have Ban as the most dangerous character, in the mortal realm, at the moment. I theorize he might even be the most powerful, mortal, SDS right now but we'll just have to wait n see.

In purgatory, Ban basically confirmed he has Deadpool-like healing factor when hellflames literally burned him till he was nothing but ash but still it couldn't touch his immortality.

Ban isnt liable to mere soul attacks either because purgatory itself eats away the souls of mortals.

I'm thinking of possible attacks we've see in NNT that could put Ban down but other than that thing Meliodas did (whatever it was), I'm pulling a blank. Would Mera's soul shenanigans still work?

I think to defeat Ban right now, the best bet mortals have is to seal him with a powerful seal (& only a handful of characters have powerful sealing abilities) because facing Ban conventionally is nigh-impossible; thus mages like Merlin, Chandler have far more chances than even a 24/7 Esca-ONE.

 

[Seven777]

Escanor the One has no way to put down Post Purgatory Ban, he easily outlast him with his sheer improved instant best Regeneration in the manga by far, new level of pain tolerance and best immortality of the manga. Actually, I believe no one can put him down by mere brute strength except literally bypassing his immortal body regeneration. You can however put him momentary down but you are just delaying the inevitable recovery of his body which should far faster than before thanks to his journey to Purgatory.

Only Meliodas is proved to actually have the " ability " to bypass his immortal body as later confirmed by him in Purgatory again.

No one can kill him except Meliodas in reality.

I agree, but this was always the case with Ban. The One fries Ban, Ban will be back, but The One still turns him to dust during their fight, its like fighting the DK(i know Esca isnt DK level, dont at me), sure Ban can always come back for a rematch, but that doesnt change the fact that he lost 6000+ times.
Only King and Meliodas can truly beat him though

 

[Kay3795]

In my mind, Wild Vs Esca-ONE should be a good physical fight contest, especially if Wild uses lifeforce charge. I actually wonder if Esca-ONE can fight this 8,000,000 year old Purgatory beast in that mode lol

I think we would be pleasantly surprised when this Pig's PL is finally revealed. If/when that happens, all the Mother Chaos theory will reach an all-time high

 

[Ger]

Only King and Meliodas can truly beat him though

stop "king can only beat him"

what can king do??

and the fact that you brought up he will disintegrate ban is clearly faulty.

purgatory environment>>Escanor's heat.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 18, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 18, 2018 ---

Ban can regenerate instantly on escanor's attack.

escanor HAS NEVER EVER shown an attack where he disintegrates someone. not even purgatory could do it for hundreds of years. so wanking escanor makes me laugh at the same time.

 

[Seven777]

stop "king can only beat him"

what can king do??

and the fact that you brought up he will disintegrate ban is clearly faulty.

purgatory environment>>Escanor's heat.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 18, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 18, 2018 ---

Ban can regenerate instantly on escanor's attack.

escanor HAS NEVER EVER shown an attack where he disintegrates someone. not even purgatory could do it for hundreds of years. so wanking escanor makes me laugh at the same time.

Man do you have to be like that every comment? I didnt even quote you and yet your reply to me sounds as though i killed your children or something, calm the fuck down.
And lol at Purgatory environment>>Escanors heat, by that logic Merlin's dad could tank a Cruel Sun to the face easily. Hate to burst your bubble but based on how Meliodas' laughed at Ban for thinking he was 10C level just for not being disintegrated by Purgatory anymore, its probably a safe bet that Purgatory's environment isnt even at the level of a 10C attack, let alone one of Escanor's.

As for what King could do

Spoiler

 

[Kay3795]

its probably a safe bet that Purgatory's environment isnt even at the level of a 10C attack, let alone one of Escanor's.

Balor's eye is currently selling for cheap in the blackmarket. Go get one now, put em one & then marvel at how outright wierd & extremely backwards your current interpretation of Meliodas' statement is

 

[OtakuFreak]

LMAO do people have selective memory or something.

Y'all forgot King can petrify Ban and essentially win despite him being immortal?

I don't know where this "Ban is OP" IS coming from when there are multiple ways to deal with immortals. Don't get me wrong he's strong but not strong enough to withstand "The one"

If immortality and infinite regeneration was a that was needed to defeat an opponnent then why is Ban still considered fodder

 

[Seven777]

Balor's eye is currently selling for cheap in the blackmarket. Go get one now, put em one & then marvel at how outright wierd & extremely backwards your current interpretation of Meliodas' statement is

Haha, believe me friend, i'd kill to have my very own Balor's Eye, if only just to lord my inside knowledge over everyone in this forum. So how powerful is Purgatory's environment in your estimation? Sub-Commandment tier(Me)? The One+ tier(Ger)? Somewhere in-between?

 

[Ger]

And lol at Purgatory environment>>Escanors heat, by that logic Merlin's dad could tank a Cruel Sun to the face easily. Hate to burst your bubble but based on how Meliodas' laughed at Ban for thinking he was 10C level just for not being disintegrated by Purgatory anymore, its probably a safe bet that Purgatory's environment isnt even at the level of a 10C attack, let alone one of Escanor's.

Stop with this strawman. When did i ever implied that?? the fact that i said ban's own being can improve by being disintegrate to dust for hundreds of years adn a heat alone from escanor IS NOT GONNA help. Demons had the capability of withstanding his heat, this has nothing to do with his attack. So you just played yourself on that contradiction.
It's literally your misintepretation on arguments that you're coming with this headcanon that purgatory environment can attack which IS NOT even the whole idea. Heck merlin even suggested not even immortal such as ban would survive so if we put the scenario all arch angels and ocmmandments were to be put in the place would they survive the hell of it? NO.

As for what King could do

Spoiler

Alright cool his third form immobilize people, the fact that fossilization DOES NOT instantly fossilize someone can be countered by ban easily due to the fact that ban ALREADY knows the ability itself and experienced it. He can easily regrow his body parts to another.

Despite that how is it gonna officially reach ban's very core bone when the environment of the purgatory itself is far worse than fossilization which purgatory of flames disintegrates his flesh and the idea that ban's 5 senses are off due to purgatory. Even ice of purgatory reaches every part of his blood stream and still capable of moving after that. This is a matter of resistance feats for ban who has experienced a far worse scenario fossilization.

Even this statement also implies that poison is highly toxic to compare that to melascula's poison that's nothing to ban as of he is right now capable of making the poison in the air his living hobbies like every person inhaling oxygen.

fossilization DOES get resisted in this case due to many factors of ban's capable feats and the lore statements what purgatory is like.

I don't know where this "Ban is OP" IS coming from when there are multiple ways to deal with immortals. Don't get me wrong he's strong but not strong enough to withstand "The one"

If immortality and infinite regeneration was a that was needed to defeat an opponnent then why is Ban still considered fodder

oh yeah he can totally stand up to the one's attack due to his regeneration. If ban had the capability of surviving purgatory which no organism unless they're born in the purgatory to be put they would die without any sort of effort.

why is he considered fodder among the sins?? the fact that his raw strengthi isn't on par with theirs. that's a simple solution for that pal.
But that doesn't take away the fact ban has many skill set that he can easily put king away and weakened him. Also tell me this "there are multiple ways to deal with immortals". Ban's immortality is far different than meliodas due to the fact that he's only ageless where as ban not only he's ageless but he can regenerate even from being disintegrated multiple times. Which no character has ever done in the series thus far.

 

[Seven777]

Stop with this strawman. When did i ever implied that?? the fact that i said ban's own being can improve by being disintegrate to dust for hundreds of years adn a heat alone from escanor IS NOT GONNA help. Demons had the capability of withstanding his heat, this has nothing to do with his attack. So you just played yourself on that contradiction.
It's literally your misintepretation on arguments that you're coming with this headcanon that purgatory environment can attack which IS NOT even the whole idea. Heck merlin even suggested not even immortal such as ban would survive so if we put the scenario all arch angels and ocmmandments were to be put in the place would they survive the hell of it? NO.






Alright cool his third form immobilize people, the fact that fossilization DOES NOT instantly fossilize someone can be countered by ban easily due to the fact that ban ALREADY knows the ability itself and experienced it. He can easily regrow his body parts to another.

Despite that how is it gonna officially reach ban's very core bone when the environment of the purgatory itself is far worse than fossilization which purgatory of flames disintegrates his flesh and the idea that ban's 5 senses are off due to purgatory. Even ice of purgatory reaches every part of his blood stream and still capable of moving after that. This is a matter of resistance feats for ban who has experienced a far worse scenario fossilization.

Even this statement also implies that poison is highly toxic to compare that to melascula's poison that's nothing to ban as of he is right now capable of making the poison in the air his living hobbies like every person inhaling oxygen.

fossilization DOES get resisted in this case due to many factors of ban's capable feats and the lore statements what purgatory is like.

oh yeah he can totally stand up to the one's attack due to his regeneration. If ban had the capability of surviving purgatory which no organism unless they're born in the purgatory to be put they would die without any sort of effort.

why is he considered fodder among the sins?? the fact that his raw strengthi isn't on par with theirs. that's a simple solution for that pal.
But that doesn't take away the fact ban has many skill set that he can easily put king away and weakened him. Also tell me this "there are multiple ways to deal with immortals". Ban's immortality is far different than meliodas due to the fact that he's only ageless where as ban not only he's ageless but he can regenerate even from being disintegrated multiple times. Which no character has ever done in the series thus far.

So... by Escanor's heat you just meant Escanor's presence? Alright lol, my mistake, but i never said Escanor's "heat" would hurt Ban, so i dont know why you even brought it up.

So? You asked me what King CAN do, not "how does King %100 beat Ban every time". I merely provided you an example of how King could beat Ban, as requested, i dont understand why you need to lose your shit over that.

 

[BurlapJack]

Haha, believe me friend, i'd kill to have my very own Balor's Eye, if only just to lord my inside knowledge over everyone in this forum. So how powerful is Purgatory's environment in your estimation? Sub-Commandment tier(Me)? The One+ tier(Ger)? Somewhere in-between?

How the hell can you accurately compare an attack to an environment? Something isn't adding up

 

[Ger]

How the hell can you accurately compare an attack to an environment? Something isn't adding up

apparently he thinks everyone that is foreign to purgatory can survive (excluding gods and meliodas)

 

[Seven777]

How the hell can you accurately compare an attack to an environment? Something isn't adding up

It was a misunderstanding, i assumed when Ger said Purgatory environment>>Escanor's heat, he meant the heat of his attacks like Cruel Sun and stuff, turns out he just meant Escanor's heat aura or something.

apparently he thinks everyone that is foreign to purgatory can survive (excluding gods and meliodas)

When did i say that? Jeeze, you accuse everyone and their mother of strawmanning you and then you go ahead and make a comment like this?

 

[Ger]

It was a misunderstanding, i assumed when Ger said Purgatory environment>>Escanor's heat, he meant the heat of his attacks like Cruel Sun and stuff, turns out he just meant Escanor's heat aura or something.

As for that escanor's heat attqack from cruel sun only has the capability so far to burn a random armor. Which environment of the purgatory can do that.

also heat i meant not his attack's potency and what it could do to harm ban physically but im talking about any of his attacks heat. so if we put them alone in a perfect cube and escanor unleashes all of his heat it wouldn't do anything to ban.

 

[Demonspeed]

Since Ludoret's PL has been revealed Induras seem to be even stronger than we fought so:

• Indura Derrierie VS Zeldris.
• Indura Derrierie VS 142K AM Meliodas.
• Indura Monspiet and Derrierie VS The One.
• Indura Monspiet VS King.

 

[Estarossa173]

Since Ludoret's PL has been revealed Induras seem to be even stronger than we fought so:

• Indura Derrierie VS Zeldris.
• Indura Derrierie VS 142K AM Meliodas.
• Indura Monspiet and Derrierie VS The One.
• Indura Monspiet VS King.

Indura Derieri
This can go either way but ill assume Indura Derieri wins.
The One. I mean, according to the author and escanor fanboys, he is the "invincible incarnation of power"
Can go either way. But ill give it to King.

 

[Seven777]

Since Ludoret's PL has been revealed Induras seem to be even stronger than we fought so:

• Indura Derrierie VS Zeldris.
• Indura Derrierie VS 142K AM Meliodas.
• Indura Monspiet and Derrierie VS The One.
• Indura Monspiet VS King.

Imo Ludo just wasnt trying hard enough against the Indura, i think(and hope) that when Ludo "gets serious" he becomes significantly stronger. With that said, imo the Indura lose every fight.