Technique Internal Quality Shinsoo Control

[kkck]

The point of this thread is to discuss Internal shinsoo quality control in general.

Internal Quality shinsoo control is an insanely useful ability that SIU straight up ended up ignoring back during the hidden floor arc. I am kinda still wondering about some of its properties. The basis of internal quality shinsoo control seems to be about basically inserting your shinsoo qualities into your body to have that power explode within you and given you a performance boost. Basically a juiced up redan.

As far as I can tell there are several types of shinsoo characteristics:

1.- Shinsoo shapes: Like spear or orb.

2.- Shinsoo qualities: Like lightning or ice.

3.- Shinsoo reinforcement: Like what fucking miseng does. I assume this is also what is going on with Ha family members.

And your overall shinsoo characteristics can be any combination of those. Dunno if there is a shape that goes with shinsoo boosts or if shinsoo boosts can have elemental properties. Probably not as if the koon had access to a lightning shinsoo boost then this power would even stack over internal quality shinsoo control and make them bullshit in the reinforcement area even above the ha.

Anyways, back to internal quality control.

At first I found it weird that we never saw bam using it. Then I thought that odds are that we know so little about this and its likely that this is simply not a skill for bam. For one thing, can you use this if your shinsoo characteristics do not have an elemental affinity? When eduan explained it he simply used his lightning. So in bam's case it is plausible that his orb simply did not allow him the tools to use it. Unless bam can insert the orb into himself but that sounds odd. When we saw zahard used his internal shinsoo quality control he used a golden shinwonryu bang apparently, not even his golden needle.

Another point, would this skill even be useful to bam? Internal control seems to be meant to strengthen close range combat for the most part. Though in ran's case it also seems to result in stronger lighting spears but my memory on that might be off. Anyways, bam currently simply does not have the specks for CQC. He can technically do it but its generally a bad idea for him to engage in this against someone who has ideal specks for CQC. Such as when bam fought data zahard, the vast majority of times bam was within punching distance of zahard he ended up bleeding on the other side of the stage.

I am guessing that before bam can genuinely use this skill he'd need to first work on his base strength and then get a second shinsoo quality with an elemental affinity he can use.

Something else I am wondering... Does using an internal shinsoo quality control allow you to imbue the properties of your element into your body? As in making eduan's punches, say, electric or making zahard's body tougher? My initial assumption was that it would allow this but seeing how things have played out I am sort of skeptical of that idea.

 

[Ripcord]

The point of this thread is to discuss Internal shinsoo quality control in general.

Internal Quality shinsoo control is an insanely useful ability that SIU straight up ended up ignoring back during the hidden floor arc. I am kinda still wondering about some of its properties. The basis of internal quality shinsoo control seems to be about basically inserting your shinsoo qualities into your body to have that power explode within you and given you a performance boost. Basically a juiced up redan.

As far as I can tell there are several types of shinsoo characteristics:

1.- Shinsoo shapes: Like spear or orb.

2.- Shinsoo qualities: Like lightning or ice.

3.- Shinsoo reinforcement: Like what fucking miseng does. I assume this is also what is going on with Ha family members.

And your overall shinsoo characteristics can be any combination of those. Dunno if there is a shape that goes with shinsoo boosts or if shinsoo boosts can have elemental properties. Probably not as if the koon had access to a lightning shinsoo boost then this power would even stack over internal quality shinsoo control and make them bullshit in the reinforcement area even above the ha.

Anyways, back to internal quality control.

At first I found it weird that we never saw bam using it. Then I thought that odds are that we know so little about this and its likely that this is simply not a skill for bam. For one thing, can you use this if your shinsoo characteristics do not have an elemental affinity? When eduan explained it he simply used his lightning. So in bam's case it is plausible that his orb simply did not allow him the tools to use it. Unless bam can insert the orb into himself but that sounds odd. When we saw zahard used his internal shinsoo quality control he used a golden shinwonryu orb apparently, not even his golden needle.

Another point, would this skill even be useful to bam? Internal control seems to be meant to strengthen close range combat for the most part. Though in ran's case it also seems to result in stronger lighting spears but my memory on that might be off. Anyways, bam currently simply does not have the specks for CQC. He can technically do it but its generally a bad idea for him to engage in this against someone who has ideal specks for CQC. Such as when bam fought data zahard, the vast majority of times bam was within punching distance of zahard he ended up bleeding on the other side of the stage.

I am guessing that before bam can genuinely use this skill he'd need to first work on his base strength and then get a second shinsoo quality with an elemental affinity he can use.

Something else I am wondering... Does using an internal shinsoo quality control allow you to imbue the properties of your element into your body? As in making eduan's punches, say, electric or making zahard's body tougher? My initial assumption was that it would allow this but seeing how things have played out I am sort of skeptical of that idea.

I would say this post is overdue, so thanks for posting it.

The first thing is that SIU probably skipped over the idea because Bam is already hax from the HF arc, and that arc was already long enough. It’s interesting that Zahard didn’t use internal shinsoo control more than that one time. He probably would have trounced Bam if he used it right away, especially considering Bam said something different was going on. Well... plot...

I hadn’t thought of Miseng using it but that makes sense. With her it seems that the quality is like “kinetic energy” similar to Gambit although she uses it on herself rather than objects. I don’t think the Ha family strength is from this - that appears innate. It’s possible they use their “Red” shinsoo internally but I don’t think we’ve really seen it.

Considering that the Lightning pill is a hack for internal shinsoo control, I would bet that the real deal is a difficult technique. My best guess is that everyone has a certain flow of shinsoo within themselves. Internal shinsoo control directs it into a certain form that gives their body basic characteristics of that shinsoo (Golden = near indestructible, electric = faster, penetrating). It probably requires maintaining that special flow, which I bet is not easy to master.

I actually think that Bam already kind of does this - when he activated his own power his body has wisps of black around it. If not, then I think it’s inevitable that he does it. Last - Zahard didn’t use Shinwonryu with an orb... from what Zahard said, Bam was the first he’d seen do that. Zahard made a single bang of the Shinwonryu.

So just like the HF arc was about external control, at some point in the future we will see more internal control as our Regulars get more skilled. I can’t wait.

 

[kkck]

I would say this post is overdue, so thanks for posting it.

The first thing is that SIU probably skipped over the idea because Bam is already hax from the HF arc, and that arc was already long enough. It’s interesting that Zahard didn’t use internal shinsoo control more than that one time. He probably would have trounced Bam if he used it right away, especially considering Bam said something different was going on. Well... plot...

I hadn’t thought of Miseng using it but that makes sense. With her it seems that the quality is like “kinetic energy” similar to Gambit although she uses it on herself rather than objects. I don’t think the Ha family strength is from this - that appears innate. It’s possible they use their “Red” shinsoo internally but I don’t think we’ve really seen it.

Considering that the Lightning pill is a hack for internal shinsoo control, I would bet that the real deal is a difficult technique. My best guess is that everyone has a certain flow of shinsoo within themselves. Internal shinsoo control directs it into a certain form that gives their body basic characteristics of that shinsoo (Golden = near indestructible, electric = faster, penetrating). It probably requires maintaining that special flow, which I bet is not easy to master.

I actually think that Bam already kind of does this - when he activated his own power his body has wisps of black around it. If not, then I think it’s inevitable that he does it. Last - Zahard didn’t use Shinwonryu with an orb... from what Zahard said, Bam was the first he’d seen do that. Zahard made a single bang of the Shinwonryu.

So just like the HF arc was about external control, at some point in the future we will see more internal control as our Regulars get more skilled. I can’t wait.

We didn't see zahard insert a bang into himself though I am not sure that means he didn't use IQSC. It seems like too basic a move to not use. As seen with eduan, its a quick boost that does not seem to have any drawbacks.

With miseng we saw that from the clicker she got her berserker shinsoo boost. Which is basically shinsoo reinforcement. Jinsung also uses some variation of shinsoo boost, we saw him use one against mascheny.

We have never seen bam take a bang inside of him though. You'd think bam using a bang for internal quality shinsoo control would be more of a thing.

Ah, right, zahard didn't use an orb, I meant bang. Zahard used a shinwonryu golden bang for internal quality control.

Anyways, if internal quality control requires an actual element then the ones in the gang that would have access to it would be aguero and rak. Bam wouldn't have the right qualities for it and neither would androsi. Also, the orb is basically a big ass bang. As in, bam doesn't need to even use 20 bangs for combat when he uses it. You'd think that internal quality control for him would just be shoving the orb inside himself. Still, I don't think bam is currently suited for the skill, his specks are just not adequate for close combat. I guess that if he can take in the orb into his body and use his body as the orb it would be ridiculously OP though.

 

[Ripcord]

We didn't see zahard insert a bang into himself though I am not sure that means he didn't use IQSC. It seems like too basic a move to not use. As seen with eduan, its a quick boost that does not seem to have any drawbacks.

With miseng we saw that from the clicker she got her berserker shinsoo boost. Which is basically shinsoo reinforcement. Jinsung also uses some variation of shinsoo boost, we saw him use one against mascheny.

We have never seen bam take a bang inside of him though. You'd think bam using a bang for internal quality shinsoo control would be more of a thing.

Ah, right, zahard didn't use an orb, I meant bang. Zahard used a shinwonryu golden bang for internal quality control.

Anyways, if internal quality control requires an actual element then the ones in the gang that would have access to it would be aguero and rak. Bam wouldn't have the right qualities for it and neither would androsi. Also, the orb is basically a big ass bang. As in, bam doesn't need to even use 20 bangs for combat when he uses it. You'd think that internal quality control for him would just be shoving the orb inside himself. Still, I don't think bam is currently suited for the skill, his specks are just not adequate for close combat. I guess that if he can take in the orb into his body and use his body as the orb it would be ridiculously OP though.

Don’t you think that specifically because Bam isn’t suited for close combat that he could really use the boost that internal control could give him? Not to mention if Bam is as good at that as he is with external control, that he’d more than make up his deficits.

It’s a little odd that he has weak constitution and stamina, yet he often is forced to fight like a fisherman sometimes.

 

[kkck]

Don’t you think that specifically because Bam isn’t suited for close combat that he could really use the boost that internal control could give him? Not to mention if Bam is as good at that as he is with external control, that he’d more than make up his deficits.

It’s a little odd that he has weak constitution and stamina, yet he often is forced to fight like a fisherman sometimes.

It depends on the situation really. Would it be useful to how he fights in general? I'd say it'd be pretty damn useful, a speed and strength boost is always welcomed. Would it help him "compensate" for his weak body? That's not even debatable, it simply wouldn't. If it came to a fight of a relevant level then we'd have (in close quarter combat):

-Bam's weak ass body +
- Shinsoo reinforcement+
-Internal Quality shinsoo control (if available)

Against someone like
-Strong body+
-Shinsoo reinforcement+
-Internal Quality shinsoo control (if available)+

And strong bodies in this series can apparently benchpress a planet even before the other boosts. Add to that other inconvenient situations like the enemy potentially having shinsoo reinforcement as a quality (like fucking miseng).

Positions don't generally apply to people on people combat at least. They are a reference.... In that sense perhaps the case can be made that bam doesn't fight like much of a fisherman. He actually tries to keep his distance and when he closes in he usually delivers powerful shinsoo blasts. A prototype fisherman would in turn use either his fists, hook or needle to take down multiple enemies. A fisherman would ideally use any and all means necessary to keep enemies away from your ranged team mates.

 

[DERRICK S NIBLACK]

Baam already uses internal quality control. Even the god of guardians taught him to use an advance method. His makes him more powerful even a princess of his level as he was able to take mulitple hits from Data Zahard and then take a hit from Zahards second form needle without dying. If Data Zahard hit Data Maschenny with his second form of his needle she'd be dead even if she and her brothers helped blocked it.
His internalization of shinsu isn't as strong as Zahard but Baam's is stronger than normal for someone his ranking, like his body is stronger than Andorsi's body

 

[Demonspeed]

Baam isn't weak at close combat. He is an excellent martial artist and a great Shinsoo user. The fact that his body isn't as powerful as the members of the 10 Families in general doesn't change this.

 

[kkck]

I don't think think there is a single confirmed instance of bam using internal quality shinsoo control. We don't even know how his orb would work in regards to that.

Baam isn't weak at close combat. He is an excellent martial artist and a great Shinsoo user. The fact that his body isn't as powerful as the members of the 10 Families in general doesn't change this.

I mean, he isn't going to win any fights via punching people with his martial arts. At least not any fights against anyone important. Bam does have close range shinsoo boosts but compared to someone with a genuinely strong body he is at significant risk at that range. Bam isn't that good at taking damages and still ends up relying on shinsoo blasts. Meanwhile someone with an actually strong body can deliver punches or attacks with comparable force to a shinsoo blast by merely using their strength or strength plus reinforcement....

 

[Ripcord]

I don't think think there is a single confirmed instance of bam using internal quality shinsoo control. We don't even know how his orb would work in regards to that.


I mean, he isn't going to win any fights via punching people with his martial arts. At least not any fights against anyone important. Bam does have close range shinsoo boosts but compared to someone with a genuinely strong body he is at significant risk at that range. Bam isn't that good at taking damages and still ends up relying on shinsoo blasts. Meanwhile someone with an actually strong body can deliver punches or attacks with comparable force to a shinsoo blast by merely using their strength or strength plus reinforcement....

I think you’re missing it a little. Someone’s naturally occuring body strength is not equal to their ability to enhance it with shinsoo, these are separate things. Someone with top notch reinforcement can surpass someone with a top notch body if the difference in reinforcement ability is large enough. For example, I run slower than Usain Bolt, but something tells me I might be a better ice skater (ok maybe not but let’s say I am). Even though he can beat me on foot quite handidly, on skates I would roast him. Haha ok a guy can dream... but I think it gets my point across.

We already know Bam uses shinsoo reinforcement (which likely is a form of internal shinsoo control but uses basic shinsoo). We know in the Workshop arc Bam would be able to contend with Amigochaz in speed and strength if he could use it. Without the shinsoo reinforcement he was dead meat. My bet is Amigochaz is not as good at shinsoo reinforcement as Bam.

My guess is that internal control adds the shinsoo quality to the mix and makes the boost even more potent. Likely we will learn about it but not anytime soon.

 

[kkck]

I think you’re missing it a little. Someone’s naturally occuring body strength is not equal to their ability to enhance it with shinsoo, these are separate things. Someone with top notch reinforcement can surpass someone with a top notch body if the difference in reinforcement ability is large enough. For example, I run slower than Usain Bolt, but something tells me I might be a better ice skater (ok maybe not but let’s say I am). Even though he can beat me on foot quite handidly, on skates I would roast him. Haha ok a guy can dream... but I think it gets my point across.

We already know Bam uses shinsoo reinforcement (which likely is a form of internal shinsoo control but uses basic shinsoo). We know in the Workshop arc Bam would be able to contend with Amigochaz in speed and strength if he could use it. Without the shinsoo reinforcement he was dead meat. My bet is Amigochaz is not as good at shinsoo reinforcement as Bam.

My guess is that internal control adds the shinsoo quality to the mix and makes the boost even more potent. Likely we will learn about it but not anytime soon.

Ah, I am well aware that physical strength and reinforcement are different... stats if you will. And you are right, under the right circumstances reinforcement could do that. But... at least so far its not a particularly common occurrence. Largely because physical strength can be bullshit levels of ridiculous (for instance, yuri not taking a scratch from karaka's attacks or being able to jump all the way to hell joe when her shinsoo control was shut down).

Of course bam is competent at shinsoo control though I would argue his use of it is different from other characters. For bam shinsoo reinforcement is more like a lifeline. Without it he is a weak little boy that would splat like a tomato if he falls of a fourth floor. Contrary to, say, androsi who wouldn't even feel that and the bigger risk might be unintentional property damage. If bam gets run over by a car and he doesn't have shinsoo reinforcement on you'd have to scrape bam of said car. If androsi gets hit by a car and she isn't using any shinsoo reinforcement that car will be totaled and androsi will likely complain that some asshole who died in a car crash ruined her dress. Meanwhile for other characters shinsoo reinforcement is their entire fighting style.

That said, I disagree with internal quality control being a form of reinforcement. Not even the redan has been referred to as reinforcement per say. Maybe I am wrong but to me these look like different, and potentially stackable, abilities.

Part of the issue here is that we don't know how exactly reinforcement works. Is it a multiplier? Or you just add the raw number of shinsoo power to your punches?

 

[Ripcord]

Ah, I am well aware that physical strength and reinforcement are different... stats if you will. And you are right, under the right circumstances reinforcement could do that. But... at least so far its not a particularly common occurrence. Largely because physical strength can be bullshit levels of ridiculous (for instance, yuri not taking a scratch from karaka's attacks or being able to jump all the way to hell joe when her shinsoo control was shut down).

Of course bam is competent at shinsoo control though I would argue his use of it is different from other characters. For bam shinsoo reinforcement is more like a lifeline. Without it he is a weak little boy that would splat like a tomato if he falls of a fourth floor. Contrary to, say, androsi who wouldn't even feel that and the bigger risk might be unintentional property damage. If bam gets run over by a car and he doesn't have shinsoo reinforcement on you'd have to scrape bam of said car. If androsi gets hit by a car and she isn't using any shinsoo reinforcement that car will be totaled and androsi will likely complain that some asshole who died in a car crash ruined her dress. Meanwhile for other characters shinsoo reinforcement is their entire fighting style.

That said, I disagree with internal quality control being a form of reinforcement. Not even the redan has been referred to as reinforcement per say. Maybe I am wrong but to me these look like different, and potentially stackable, abilities.

Part of the issue here is that we don't know how exactly reinforcement works. Is it a multiplier? Or you just add the raw number of shinsoo power to your punches?

You are right, without shinsoo Bam is really weak - but I think this goes with his being a blank slate (and maybe having been dead) rather than his heritage. Androssi of course was described as a tank long ago. And I definitely agree some characters like Urek are insane even without shinsoo.

This is almost like a Gaara scenario... without sand he was nothing but with sand he could do anything. And the Tower is so full of shinsoo (and Bam has the thorn to maintain control) that I anticipate Bam surpassing everyone else.

I agree that without any knowledge of reinforcement and internal control we are guessing. I look at both of them as controlling the flow of shinsoo inside the body but perhaps they are very different methods.

For reinforcement, we have already seen Hatz do this with a pipe. He fills it with dense shinsoo to stiffen it, so I would bet that Bam does something similar. He fills (something inside) himself with shinsoo at high density, kind of like pressurizing an airbag to stop a person. If you consider that the bang takes up the shape of the person, then like Quant or Koon, they only need one bang to do that.

I suppose considering that Koon had trouble with shinsoo that reinforcement is a fundamentally different technique from internal control - which implies you create tension with a specific quality inside yourself. It still can be done with a single bang, but perhaps the flow or application differs depending on the quality.

I wonder if Koon’s instant body freeze was an uncontrolled version of internal control. If so then when he gets unfrozen we may learn about it.

 

[kkck]

You are right, without shinsoo Bam is really weak - but I think this goes with his being a blank slate (and maybe having been dead) rather than his heritage. Androssi of course was described as a tank long ago. And I definitely agree some characters like Urek are insane even without shinsoo.

This is almost like a Gaara scenario... without sand he was nothing but with sand he could do anything. And the Tower is so full of shinsoo (and Bam has the thorn to maintain control) that I anticipate Bam surpassing everyone else.

I agree that without any knowledge of reinforcement and internal control we are guessing. I look at both of them as controlling the flow of shinsoo inside the body but perhaps they are very different methods.

For reinforcement, we have already seen Hatz do this with a pipe. He fills it with dense shinsoo to stiffen it, so I would bet that Bam does something similar. He fills (something inside) himself with shinsoo at high density, kind of like pressurizing an airbag to stop a person. If you consider that the bang takes up the shape of the person, then like Quant or Koon, they only need one bang to do that.

I suppose considering that Koon had trouble with shinsoo that reinforcement is a fundamentally different technique from internal control - which implies you create tension with a specific quality inside yourself. It still can be done with a single bang, but perhaps the flow or application differs depending on the quality.

I wonder if Koon’s instant body freeze was an uncontrolled version of internal control. If so then when he gets unfrozen we may learn about it.

Agreed, I also think its more of a situation of bam simply having never developed his physical strength. It'd be fairly odd if arlen and V just happened to have the strength of normal people, it makes more sense that they were also strong and bam can potentially develop that.

Part of the issue is that on top of not knowing how exactly reinforcement works it also turns out there are several types of it. And it is plausible each type has different methods by which it works. That said, I am inclined to thinking that in a physical brawl generally the one with superior strength will have an edge since reinforcing a stronger body is likely to produce a better result than reinforcing a weaker one. I'd assume you can overcome the difference with reinforcement alone if you are sufficiently skilled though that will depend on the actual strength difference and also shinsoo qualities.

Ah, right, the koon bit is interesting. At the time we learned aguero couldn't even create a bang at the time.... 43 floors into their tower climb. But he was still able to fight at a level high for regulars and could use his crappy bang for reinforcement specifically. Reinforcement isn't just different from internal quality control, its different from standards shinsoo control (at least in a context relevant to wave controlling) altogether.

I suppose that is plausible. Though it seems odd that aguero would freeze himself like that when, say, even redan users don't electrocute themselves.

 

[Ripcord]

Agreed, I also think its more of a situation of bam simply having never developed his physical strength. It'd be fairly odd if arlen and V just happened to have the strength of normal people, it makes more sense that they were also strong and bam can potentially develop that.

Part of the issue is that on top of not knowing how exactly reinforcement works it also turns out there are several types of it. And it is plausible each type has different methods by which it works. That said, I am inclined to thinking that in a physical brawl generally the one with superior strength will have an edge since reinforcing a stronger body is likely to produce a better result than reinforcing a weaker one. I'd assume you can overcome the difference with reinforcement alone if you are sufficiently skilled though that will depend on the actual strength difference and also shinsoo qualities.

Ah, right, the koon bit is interesting. At the time we learned aguero couldn't even create a bang at the time.... 43 floors into their tower climb. But he was still able to fight at a level high for regulars and could use his crappy bang for reinforcement specifically. Reinforcement isn't just different from internal quality control, its different from standards shinsoo control (at least in a context relevant to wave controlling) altogether.

I suppose that is plausible. Though it seems odd that aguero would freeze himself like that when, say, even redan users don't electrocute themselves.

Well I would say Koon used it in an unrefined way - like how Yiwah used more power than her body was ready for (though she used external control). With regard to redan, they do have side effects from it though they don’t experience them until the shinsoo runs out. Besides - that’s why only some people are capable of redan, if they weren’t compatible then their bodies would be damaged by it.

 

[kkck]

Well I would say Koon used it in an unrefined way - like how Yiwah used more power than her body was ready for (though she used external control). With regard to redan, they do have side effects from it though they don’t experience them until the shinsoo runs out. Besides - that’s why only some people are capable of redan, if they weren’t compatible then their bodies would be damaged by it.

No idea since we never really saw koon explicitly use reinforcement. I assume he used it in situations which required him to move fast or (rarely) punch but it was never much of a plot point as far as I can tell. My guess would be that he generally had basic competence at it which coupled with his high base strength made it look like he was physically powerful.

In principle shinsoo qualities are easy to learn and master. It took a matter of days for most of the cast and the ones that took longer had special circumstances to them (for aguero it was his pried that got int he way and for rak it was being cursed by zahard to an extent). So yihwa struggling with her fire at all is just unusual. I am not sure she actually has a grasp of what her shinsoo qualities are hence why she struggles so much. Which is why I suggested that her true fire is actually the one she unintentionally used during the hell train against than angel girl.

And the situation is somewhat comparable to ran's. Realistically speaking if he had a grasp of his shinsoo qualities then he would have no need of redan at all. Redan has less power and bunch of risks compared to a bang from someone who has a grasp of his shinsoo quality. So odds are there is some aspect of his electricity which he has yet to grasp. Maybe he needs to give it a special shape or he has a special sort of electricity.

I think the miseng scenario will repeat itself with yihwa and ran in the near future. What we have seen so far from them will be buildup until they get a proper grasp of their shinsoo. All they need is to be given a clicker which for some reason androsi seems to have access to.

 

[Ripcord]

No idea since we never really saw koon explicitly use reinforcement. I assume he used it in situations which required him to move fast or (rarely) punch but it was never much of a plot point as far as I can tell. My guess would be that he generally had basic competence at it which coupled with his high base strength made it look like he was physically powerful.

In principle shinsoo qualities are easy to learn and master. It took a matter of days for most of the cast and the ones that took longer had special circumstances to them (for aguero it was his pried that got int he way and for rak it was being cursed by zahard to an extent). So yihwa struggling with her fire at all is just unusual. I am not sure she actually has a grasp of what her shinsoo qualities are hence why she struggles so much. Which is why I suggested that her true fire is actually the one she unintentionally used during the hell train against than angel girl.

And the situation is somewhat comparable to ran's. Realistically speaking if he had a grasp of his shinsoo qualities then he would have no need of redan at all. Redan has less power and bunch of risks compared to a bang from someone who has a grasp of his shinsoo quality. So odds are there is some aspect of his electricity which he has yet to grasp. Maybe he needs to give it a special shape or he has a special sort of electricity.

I think the miseng scenario will repeat itself with yihwa and ran in the near future. What we have seen so far from them will be buildup until they get a proper grasp of their shinsoo. All they need is to be given a clicker which for some reason androsi seems to have access to.

Sorry off topic but IMO the clicker would have had to been brought to the HF as a real object just like Zahard’s bracelet - it seems D-Eduan had it for a long time so no clue how it could have gotten there. You’re right it’s a bit of a plot hole.... unless Hwang was right and he could make himself real by leaving.

You’re right that Koon never showed his shinsoo use - was his insane speed during the Crown game shinsoo reinforcement or just his base speed?

I’m coming around to your position that basic reinforcement is fundamentally different from internal control. I guess it’s not too surprising that someone would specialize in internal control (Miseng) but she should be capable of external control too with her shinsoo type. No clue what that would be like.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

Imo, the Ice isn't internal quality but a defense mode, like Bam's defense orb. The shape and the effect are different, but they Strike me as two defense techniques.

As for the opening question, there are times we see Bam with Black fog coming out of his body, and others don't. It might be the Said internal quality Shinsoo that SIU Just skipped explaining further at the time, Just an addition to justify the FX on the main Bosses' bodies: Edwan's electricity, Jahad's Golden aura and Bam's Black fog. I think they Work by making the bodies react closer to the element you apply (better Shinsoo and impact absorption on Bam's case, imo).

 

[LushuMine]

I guess each shinsho quality will have different internal effects, I doubt every quality when internalized will become reinforcement. We've seen lightning (Koon's), golden (Jahad) and burst (Miseng) which suits for reinforcement. I suppose they can even have different internal use/techniques for the same quality; I don't think the only use for internal ice sinshoo is to stop their heart beating.

Btw, we saw that White has the soul quality as he used it as external quality for his attacks (White Magnolia and Deathly Sword of Heavenly Spirits). Could spells/entities give qualities to them? Or was it White's soul quality that made him able to get the spell from the beggining? So, what is its internal quality? How to separate the spell from the quality? Is the absorption and/or consumption of random souls the internal quality or the spell?

 

[Ripcord]

I guess each shinsho quality will have different internal effects, I doubt every quality when internalized will become reinforcement. We've seen lightning (Koon's), golden (Jahad) and burst (Miseng) which suits for reinforcement. I suppose they can even have different internal use/techniques for the same quality; I don't think the only use for internal ice sinshoo is to stop their heart beating.

Btw, we saw that White has the soul quality as he used it as external quality for his attacks (White Magnolia and Deathly Sword of Heavenly Spirits). Could spells/entities give qualities to them? Or was it White's soul quality that made him able to get the spell from the beggining? So, what is its internal quality? How to separate the spell from the quality? Is the absorption and/or consumption of random souls the internal quality or the spell?

Arie quality is tricky... their external quality seems to be a special blade. No clue what it would be internally.

 

[LushuMine]

Arie quality is tricky... their external quality seems to be a special blade. No clue what it would be internally.

We do know that White and Hoaquin have the shape of a blade/sword, and both have "White Style: Spirit Sword". However, we could only see clearly the use os soul in it with the complete form (White). Vicent hasn't shown anything about Souls in his techniques, Anna doesn't use even swordmanship and we haven't seen much about David or Albeda (I guess they do use sowrdmanship very well tho).

I thought that the spell binded the siblings souls and it requires the consummation of random souls to keep up the body, we have seen White's/Hoaqin's abnormal hungry for souls and recently we see he past away if they all were consumed. However, to use random the souls to enhance his body/strenght seems like Miseng's burst quality to me, he is literally bursting random souls.

It can be either the spell/acient being gave to Hoaqin his quality or it needed a perfect match of shinshoo quality for the spell works, and it was the reason White was predestinated to be a demon by his father. If it's the second option, where starts the spell and ends Hoaqin/White's quality?

 

[DERRICK S NIBLACK]

I don't remember if you guys remember. During the floor 20 test one of the test was a game to test everyones internal shinsu. Baam used piercing butterfly so I'm guessing and type of punch could be called internal shinsu. I think the meaning of internal shinsu is much bigger than body hardening. Baam can easily take powerful shinsu attacks but physical attacks are his weakness. I could say the reason Baam can't tank attacks is because his body hardning is piss poor but his speed and power are crazy high. Baam does have amazing defense from lack of his body as we saw from the Data Zahard fight.

My point being internalizing shinsu is different for everyone and it's not just body hardning but all around. One could still have a powerful punch but a weaker body.