Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Chuck_Atlas]

Huh, that Beast Children cover is lit as fuck, almost made me forget about Taisei lmao, still hope either of them manage to make it

 

[Rain Spectre]

"U19 was looking really good"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[supercow297]

"U19 was looking really good"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Would you like to expound upon that point more, or would that just be more HAs?

 

[RafaFedKilla]

Plot and concept was a little ridiculous. Author made a one shot and he had some pretty impressive art so I hope he continues

Garden was good, could've been a part of the zombie craze.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Would you like to expound upon that point more, or would that just be more HAs?

So I shall.

U19 is one of the most laughable manga I have ever read. The attempted story of "youth rebellion" is clearly one designed around attempting to comment on serious societal issues, but fails because it has absolutely zero subtlety or attempts to portray those issues as meaningful. Literally all the adults are cartoonish villains who take pleasure in the suffering of teenagers, with many of them being basically literal Nazis. It's impossible to take seriously, both because it strains disbelief (The entire adult party of Japan apparently got instant support from Japan's entire adult population all because an Olympic athlete posted lewd photos), but because it makes the attempts to "rise up" ring completely hollow, the society they're fighting against literally cannot exist.

Going through my "Four Requirements" (you remember those, right?), the manga fails there outside of focusing on the protagonist. Across the first seven chapters, half of them are spent just getting through all the introduction points, and then the next four of them are largely dedicated to the protagonist opposing his teacher, a conflict which not only feels like it should've been in Chapter 1 (since the teacher is the first character even seen), but feels meaningless because the character poses not threat to what the heroes are doing. Cast-wise, much of Volume 1 is dedicated to protagonist Eiji's relationship with his classmates, characters who are narratively meaningless in the long run (a fact made obvious by the generic designs they have), with no time being given to developing Eiji's actual allies who are supposed to be long-standing characters. And the story lacks drive because of how little actually develops in Volume 1 as a whole.

Lastly, and this is why the manga fails as a battle manga, it completely lacks tension. Libido (a power I legit cannot say seriously) is a superpower which the heroes have...and the villains do not. Indeed it's said that both the villains don't have it, and don't even know it exists, which fundamentally throws a wrench into any action the manga has set up because you're watching superpowered teens fighting non-powered adults, a combination which makes every encounter completely one-sided.

I rest my case.

 

[Scruffy8642]

Things I liked about U19, reading it two years later. (Can someone link his latest one shot please?)

If I’m thinking of the right One Shot, it had truck-kun appear on literally the second page (the colour spread)... I saw that and noped out instantly.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Current question I have, since I've devised a working formula for battle manga and have honestly not enough data for sports and gag to go off of, I'm left with one ongoing question...what is the formula for a successful romance manga?

 

[MangAniMY]

 

[Rain Spectre]

Did you know that, since 2000, there have only been four hit sport manga in Jump? I'm shocked myself.

 

[MysticCatto]

Current question I have, since I've devised a working formula for battle manga and have honestly not enough data for sports and gag to go off of, I'm left with one ongoing question...what is the formula for a successful romance manga?

I think what romance manga needs is:
1) Very, very strong leads
2) An interesting dynamic between the characters that makes the reader want to see their relationship blossom into
3) The long term goal is typically for the protag to be with the person he/she loves, so what is important instead is establishing the challenges preventing that from happening
(Ex; Bakuman its the goal of getting an anime, Nisekoi with the keys and locks)

I feel like I just gave a very general outline for several genres but I hope I got the ball rolling

 

[Rain Spectre]

I think what romance manga needs is:
1) Very, very strong leads
2) An interesting dynamic between the characters that makes the reader want to see their relationship blossom into
3) The long term goal is typically for the protag to be with the person he/she loves, so what is important instead is establishing the challenges preventing that from happening
(Ex; Bakuman its the goal of getting an anime, Nisekoi with the keys and locks)

I feel like I just gave a very general outline for several genres but I hope I got the ball rolling

Decent hypothesis, but it requires the question then of if it actually comes into play in the long run. Of course, the tricky part is how far back you exactly compile your data, and how you reconcile the connection between hardcore ecchi (To-Love-Ru, Yuuna) and stuff which is way more innocent (Strawberry 100%, Nisekoi, We Never Learn).

Also, when the heck was Bakuman a romance manga? It has a romance plotline key to the story, but the manga is about the battle to become a major part of Jump.

 

[Ctkk]

There seems to have been a sort of romance boom recently with Kaguya-sama and Go-touge. With Yuuna and WNL approaching their ends, maybe WSJ will try to cash in with a few new ones in the near future.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Fingers crossed the next romance hit for Jump is a series like Quintuplets which disposes of the gag filler chapters in favor of pure story and character development.

 

[Pietro]

the new manga about rugby looks so good!
I'm really sorry about Son goku manga It deserve much more than this

 

[supercow297]

So I shall.

U19 is one of the most laughable manga I have ever read. The attempted story of "youth rebellion" is clearly one designed around attempting to comment on serious societal issues, but fails because it has absolutely zero subtlety or attempts to portray those issues as meaningful. Literally all the adults are cartoonish villains who take pleasure in the suffering of teenagers, with many of them being basically literal Nazis. It's impossible to take seriously, both because it strains disbelief (The entire adult party of Japan apparently got instant support from Japan's entire adult population all because an Olympic athlete posted lewd photos), but because it makes the attempts to "rise up" ring completely hollow, the society they're fighting against literally cannot exist.

Going through my "Four Requirements" (you remember those, right?), the manga fails there outside of focusing on the protagonist. Across the first seven chapters, half of them are spent just getting through all the introduction points, and then the next four of them are largely dedicated to the protagonist opposing his teacher, a conflict which not only feels like it should've been in Chapter 1 (since the teacher is the first character even seen), but feels meaningless because the character poses not threat to what the heroes are doing. Cast-wise, much of Volume 1 is dedicated to protagonist Eiji's relationship with his classmates, characters who are narratively meaningless in the long run (a fact made obvious by the generic designs they have), with no time being given to developing Eiji's actual allies who are supposed to be long-standing characters. And the story lacks drive because of how little actually develops in Volume 1 as a whole.

Lastly, and this is why the manga fails as a battle manga, it completely lacks tension. Libido (a power I legit cannot say seriously) is a superpower which the heroes have...and the villains do not. Indeed it's said that both the villains don't have it, and don't even know it exists, which fundamentally throws a wrench into any action the manga has set up because you're watching superpowered teens fighting non-powered adults, a combination which makes every encounter completely one-sided.

I rest my case.

My response is in bold text.

U19 is one of the most laughable manga I have ever read. The attempted story of "youth rebellion" is clearly one designed around attempting to comment on serious societal issues, but fails because it has absolutely zero subtlety or attempts to portray those issues as meaningful.
It never attempted to be meaningful or seriously comment on societal issues.

Literally all the adults are cartoonish villains who take pleasure in the suffering of teenagers, with many of them being basically literal Nazis.
It didn't try to take itself fully seriously in the first place and that's fine. One Piece villains are all cartoonish as well. It still tackles real world-relevant issues.

It's impossible to take seriously, both because it strains disbelief (The entire adult party of Japan apparently got instant support from Japan's entire adult population all because an Olympic athlete posted lewd photos), but because it makes the attempts to "rise up" ring completely hollow, the society they're fighting against literally cannot exist.
This is indeed hard to swallow, the way the mangaka presented.

Going through my "Four Requirements" (you remember those, right?),
Forgot so I'll just reply directly to your following points. Not sure why you'd expect anyone to remember though...

the manga fails there outside of focusing on the protagonist. Across the first seven chapters, half of them are spent just getting through all the introduction points, and then the next four of them are largely dedicated to the protagonist opposing his teacher, a conflict which not only feels like it should've been in Chapter 1 (since the teacher is the first character even seen), but feels meaningless because the character poses not threat to what the heroes are doing.
True that he isn't a big threat. But it's a nice hands-on introduction to how powers are used. It developed baseball-guy Suzuki's character as well.

Cast-wise, much of Volume 1 is dedicated to protagonist Eiji's relationship with his classmates, characters who are narratively meaningless in the long run (a fact made obvious by the generic designs they have), with no time being given to developing Eiji's actual allies who are supposed to be long-standing characters. And the story lacks drive because of how little actually develops in Volume 1 as a whole.
The classmates were likely planned to have a bigger role in the story... had it continued.

Lastly, and this is why the manga fails as a battle manga, it completely lacks tension. Libido (a power I legit cannot say seriously) is a superpower which the heroes have...and the villains do not. Indeed it's said that both the villains don't have it, and don't even know it exists, which fundamentally throws a wrench into any action the manga has set up because you're watching superpowered teens fighting non-powered adults, a combination which makes every encounter completely one-sided.
The villains have crazy amounts of technology on their side and possibly also superpowers. Mech (IIRC) vs superpowers was an interesting take.

In short I think most of your points are invalid although some points about the manga not being completely realistic are true. In either case it doesn't deny my main points about the manga. I like it because it had good art, good character design, likable, differentiable characters, with good comedic banter, and relatable motives, the plot had momentum, the powers were cool, the premise and world were interesting, and the fights were good.

--- Double Post Merged, May 24, 2019, Original Post Date: May 24, 2019 ---

There seems to have been a sort of romance boom recently with Kaguya-sama and Go-touge. With Yuuna and WNL approaching their ends, maybe WSJ will try to cash in with a few new ones in the near future.

Lol Go-touge

-------------

On the subject of successful shonen romances, I think they need:

1. Diverse set of girls for multiple tastes is safer than one girl.
2. You have to want what the MC gets but not feel jealous.
3. Hence, the MC must be working hard to deserve what he's getting, or deserve it in some other way. Perhaps by losing out in life, being unlucky, etc.
4. Plot events have to be tied to the romance. Rosario x Vampire is a clever example.

 

[Ctkk]

Lol Go-touge

-------------

Oops, brain fart XD.

 

[Rain Spectre]

(Cut for space)

Surprisingly decent response, SuperCow. I'll say however, a lot of those problems are is that none of that was included in the first seven chapters. All it was was a very static scenario that seemed to lack any direction with a very far-fetched and unbelievable setting. Had any of the more exciting elements been included in the early chapters, the manga may have stood a better chance.

 

[supercow297]

Oops, brain fart XD.

All good, you gave me the chance to crocpost after all.

--- Double Post Merged, May 24, 2019, Original Post Date: May 24, 2019 ---

Surprisingly decent response, SuperCow. I'll say however, a lot of those problems are is that none of that was included in the first seven chapters. All it was was a very static scenario that seemed to lack any direction with a very far-fetched and unbelievable setting. Had any of the more exciting elements been included in the early chapters, the manga may have stood a better chance.

I was excited from the beginning, but anyway... Is it such a surprising thing for me to respond decently?

I'm starting to worry about my reputation on this thread...

 

[WyldViolet]

I also liked U19 despite it not being perfect. It clearly wasn't meant to be entirely serious so that argument is silly.
Certain users have this weird problem where they read all series the exact same way and seem incapable of seeing unique risks or approaches towards generic things (or simply not understanding what a seres is attempting due to certain contexts they are unfamiliar with) and seeing them as flaws for being different than they expected.

 

[supercow297]

I also liked U19 despite it not being perfect. It clearly wasn't meant to be entirely serious so that argument is silly.
Rain Spectre has this weird problem where they read all series the exact same way and seems incapable of seeing unique risks or approaches towards generic things (or simply not understanding what a seres is attempting due to certain contexts they are unfamiliar with) and seeing them as flaws for being different than they expected.

Umm... I don't see that necessarily as a "problem" of Rain Spectres... But maybe it would be better for one to broaden one's scope of believable narratives, since that would allow for more variety of stories to be enjoyed. In any case I'm glad you also enjoyed U19.