Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[MangAniMY]

Shokugeki had a really good supporting cast development during it's run, but in this past arcs it all went to completely trash. Support characters didn't have any kind of importance or even the slightest action here. They were just in the tournament in order to win some matches and then lose and make Soma stand out even more as the hero that will save them all and defeat every enemy. Like for real, they developed them all and made them confident in themselves just to throw that away in this arc and make Soma the ultimate chef and everyone else complete useless.

Regarding Erina, she has been turned in a princess that needs someone to save her because she doesn't know what to do by herself. Even if we already had that with her father's arc and she regained some confidence, it has been aaaall thrown away once more just so Soma can be the amazing prince that saves her from a desperate situation against the evilness. That's the only vibe last chapter gave me. Soma will end up winning, make another random dish and be the hero.

In conclusion, well yeah, Soma had a good supporting cast. Sad that it's all non-existent now.

huh, so that is how in line spoiler looks like...

 

[RafGL]

huh, so that is how in line spoiler looks like...

I actually expected something like Discord I'm disappointed.

 

[4Eyes]

Man, I would love to say MHA does a good job with the supporting characters but there's something that bothers me with the way Horikoshi develops them.
I mean, when one supporting character is to be developed, I feel like the growth of the others is put on hold because is this someone time to shine.
We hardly see the characters growing together and that's the whole point with the current arc. Horikoshi simply couldn't make the villains grow while fighting the heroes, so he put a bunch of fodder characters which don't need to grow during the fights to make the villains grow.
Well, I'm not saying Horikoshi is a bad writer, since it's really hard to handle lots of characters, it's just this bothers me and I wanted to know if someone share this pov.

 

[Ctkk]

Man, I would love to say MHA does a good job with the supporting characters but there's something that bothers me with the way Horikoshi develops them.
I mean, when one supporting character is to be developed, I feel like the growth of the others is put on hold because is this someone time to shine.
We hardly see the characters growing together and that's the whole point with the current arc. Horikoshi simply couldn't make the villains grow while fighting the heroes, so he put a bunch of fodder characters which don't need to grow during the fights to make the villains grow.
Well, I'm not saying Horikoshi is a bad writer, since it's really hard to handle lots of characters, it's just this bothers me and I wanted to know if someone share this pov.

I can see this and I think it's part of a wider tendency of Horikoshi always focusing on one single thing at a time. For example, in the overhaul arc there were multiple simultaneous fights, and instead of switching between them, every time one ends, we go back in time to see another start. And that's not the only arc where it happens.

For something more related to what you're saying but on a smaller scale, in the last match of JT, there was a Monoma chapter, a Uraraka chapter, a Shinsho chapter, a Deku chapter, and so basically a single scene lasted for like 5 chapters because everyone had to take their turn at the development game.

 

[supercow297]

What deep have kimetsu cast? The only one who had a good character development is Zenitsu...

I think the ongoing jump series with the best suporting cast is Haikyuu and surprisingly... Jujutsu (and I find in general my least favourite battle shonen in the moment)

The depth of Kimetsu characters should be obvious if you just think about it. Just in the last chapter they gave an extra layer of humanism to Inosuke. His grief and resulting anger related to "the situation at hand" weren't sides we were well acquainted with beforehand. Kimetsu no Yaiba takes every opportunity to efficiently give characters a variety of reactions to various situations that flesh them out. I'm not saying each and every side character has Eren Yaeger level of development, but the characters definitely are handled better than other shonen series. Even the enemies feel human when you get their backstory.

And I don't want to prod you too much but your comment feels a bit lazy. I don't think you should always hope other people explain things to you. But if you genuinely couldn't see any depth at all in Kimetsu then I hope this changed your mind at least a little.

MHA supporting cast is really good with good character depth in many of them, there’s just a lot of characters, not only in the world but in Class A and B alone. But he’s worked really well with what he’s had

I really disagree. (I know, big surprise.) For example, I think the only well-developed characters in 1-A are Deku, Todoroki, Bakugou, and Tenya. And even then they stop acting like humans and just basically repeat catchphrases when it's not their "arc". 2nd tier development is probably Momo and Singer girl. If you look at other characters like Kaminari for example his only character trait is "I act cool but sometimes flop and get laughed at." Even (or rather, especially) Black Clover side characters are better. Look at how the Gordon and the blue hair girl completely reversed our expectations of them in semi-recent events. And even depth aside, there is at least a better character screentime balance in BC.

But I'm not oblivious to BnHA's good traits of course. For example, I think the character design is easily the best in Jump right now, maybe of all time, in terms of how much characters stand out from each other. Even Oda has praised this.

The same Oda cautioned Horikoshi that his character cast was too large and was still growing too fast and it would be difficult to balance them enough so that the readers continued to care.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 1, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 1, 2019 ---

Man, I would love to say MHA does a good job with the supporting characters but there's something that bothers me with the way Horikoshi develops them.
I mean, when one supporting character is to be developed, I feel like the growth of the others is put on hold because is this someone time to shine.
We hardly see the characters growing together and that's the whole point with the current arc. Horikoshi simply couldn't make the villains grow while fighting the heroes, so he put a bunch of fodder characters which don't need to grow during the fights to make the villains grow.
Well, I'm not saying Horikoshi is a bad writer, since it's really hard to handle lots of characters, it's just this bothers me and I wanted to know if someone share this pov.

Yes, I agree completely. I wonder what the more passionate fans of BnHA on this thread have to say to that, I think it's something that even people who love the series right now and love the characters can at least attest to.

 

[xAsum0x]

Man, I would love to say MHA does a good job with the supporting characters but there's something that bothers me with the way Horikoshi develops them.
I mean, when one supporting character is to be developed, I feel like the growth of the others is put on hold because is this someone time to shine.
We hardly see the characters growing together and that's the whole point with the current arc. Horikoshi simply couldn't make the villains grow while fighting the heroes, so he put a bunch of fodder characters which don't need to grow during the fights to make the villains grow.
Well, I'm not saying Horikoshi is a bad writer, since it's really hard to handle lots of characters, it's just this bothers me and I wanted to know if someone share this pov.

Not sure I agree, that was kinda the purpose of the End of Terms Exam and the Joint Training Exam, they all grew together, learned different techniques, gained new rivalries and motivations etc. Not really sure I see what you're saying about the villains either. Majority of the characters piggy back off of others development, (Momo with Shoto, Kirishima with Bakugo, Deku and Bakugo with each other, Endeavor with Shoto etc etc.

 

[supercow297]

Not sure I agree, that was kinda the purpose of the End of Terms Exam and the Joint Training Exam, they all grew together, learned different techniques, gained new rivalries and motivations etc. Not really sure I see what you're saying about the villains either. Majority of the characters piggy back off of others development, (Momo with Shoto, Kirishima with Bakugo, Deku and Bakugo with each other, Endeavor with Shoto etc etc.

That's what 4Eyes seems to be saying. That Horikoshi creates arcs just to remind us that his characters exist, in which they get a few pages of screen-time. And then when it's not their turn in the spotlight they just become static characters and let other characters act human.

"They all grew together". I'm curious what you mean by this. I don't think they matured at all.

"Learned different techniques". If learning new techniques means well-written characters then Goku had amazing character writing all throughout DBZ. But in reality he's a static character who repeats the same cycle of comradery, training, fighting, and anger.

"Gained new rivalries and motivations". The majority of these "new rivalries and motivations" do not feel like they will be coming up after this arc, besides possibly a little easter egg. e.g. In a future arc: "Hey Pony you beat me last time but now let's work together!" and then never mentioned again.

And the characters you listed are some of the only characters in BnHA that are written pretty well (again, when it's their arc). I challenge you to list a couple more characters you think have had close to as much growth/focus/depth.

I'm trying to turn a new leaf btw, hopefully this wasn't very belligerent-sounding.

 

[Soralied]

Man, I would love to say MHA does a good job with the supporting characters but there's something that bothers me with the way Horikoshi develops them.
I mean, when one supporting character is to be developed, I feel like the growth of the others is put on hold because is this someone time to shine.
We hardly see the characters growing together and that's the whole point with the current arc. Horikoshi simply couldn't make the villains grow while fighting the heroes, so he put a bunch of fodder characters which don't need to grow during the fights to make the villains grow.
Well, I'm not saying Horikoshi is a bad writer, since it's really hard to handle lots of characters, it's just this bothers me and I wanted to know if someone share this pov.

That's because in another story structure, the "heroes" fight the "villains", the "villains" get developed, then they exit the story or move far into the background. The League of Villains are not characters to just move past, they are the endgame of the series. The LoV will eventually fight Class 1A, but you can, at max, only do those kinds of fights 2 or 3 times before they lose their charm. It's different, but different is not bad.

 

[xAsum0x]

That's what 4Eyes seems to be saying. That Horikoshi creates arcs just to remind us that his characters exist, in which they get a few pages of screen-time. And then when it's not their turn in the spotlight they just become static characters and let other characters act human.

"They all grew together". I'm curious what you mean by this. I don't think they matured at all.

"Learned different techniques". If learning new techniques means well-written characters then Goku had amazing character writing all throughout DBZ. But in reality he's a static character who repeats the same cycle of comradery, training, fighting, and anger.

"Gained new rivalries and motivations". The majority of these "new rivalries and motivations" do not feel like they will be coming up after this arc, besides possibly a little easter egg. e.g. In a future arc: "Hey Pony you beat me last time but now let's work together!" and then never mentioned again.

And the characters you listed are some of the only characters in BnHA that are written pretty well (again, when it's their arc). I challenge you to list a couple more characters you think have had close to as much growth/focus/depth.

I'm trying to turn a new leaf btw, hopefully this wasn't very belligerent-sounding.

They have matured? I'm not sure how you could read the arcs and say they havent matured since the series is so character centric. Momo is not the same confidence wise as she used to be. Bakugo and Deku def aren't the same as they used to be. Neither are Iida, Ochako, Kirishima Shoto etc. Not sure what you guys are asking here. Challenge me to list characters that have similar growth then they do? Endeavor, Shigaraki, Twice, Amajiki

 

[CuriousReborn]

Can you guys just take this to the MHA thread, this is getting annoying.

 

[supercow297]

Can you guys just take this to the MHA thread, this is getting annoying.

Do you or do you not want to hit 1000 pages?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 1, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 1, 2019 ---

They have matured? I'm not sure how you could read the arcs and say they havent matured since the series is so character centric. Momo is not the same confidence wise as she used to be. Bakugo and Deku def aren't the same as they used to be. Neither are Iida, Ochako, Kirishima Shoto etc. Not sure what you guys are asking here. Challenge me to list characters that have similar growth then they do? Endeavor, Shigaraki, Twice, Amajiki

So you're going to ignore my points about how "learning different techniques" and "gaining new rivalries" is nullified?

I'll give you the new four you listed. I meant to say restricting the characters with similar growth, within 1-A and 1-B. Good luck.

 

[MangAniMY]

made a thing

Spoiler: overly complicated version

Spoiler: google sheets

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hIMrw16Y63IXv1BVmQjDwVneUEQ_cU-g1MhIL2YlU4c/edit?usp=sharing

 

[xAsum0x]

Do you or do you not want to hit 1000 pages?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 1, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 1, 2019 ---

So you're going to ignore my points about how "learning different techniques" and "gaining new rivalries" is nullified?

I'll give you the new four you listed. I meant to say restricting the characters with similar growth, within 1-A and 1-B. Good luck.

What about it? I mean you make the points but they're still doing those things plus developing as characters. I'm not sure how you bringing those certain scenarios makes it a negative. 4Eyes made the point that when character develops the others are put on hold and its just not true. It happened all over numerous arcs. When Bakugo grew Deku grew, when Shoto grew Momo grew, when Bakugo grew Kirishima grew, When Deku grew Ochako grew. And it'll all continue until he hits the majority of Class A. In Class B Kendo, Monoma and Tetsutetsu are good characters. Lol I know why you're limiting the list to Class A and B, no sensible mangaka can properly develop 40 characters and develop a world and story at the same time. Cmon now. Literally what I said previously, for the amount of characters he has in both classes alone, he's done great job with developing and or characterizing Class A

 

[SalesNerd69]

So whats the news on PNL and KnY ending ?

 

[Konja9]

What I find funny is that one manga in a week sales way more than all the industry outside of japan

Really?

I know there was a big difference, but not that is so extreme.

That explain why they don't care about manga outside Japan.

 

[OtterBrigade]

So whats the news on PNL and KnY ending ?

I think both were confirmed to be in their final arcs but not how long those will be. Just reading Demon Slayer through Viz so no idea how that's going but TPN still feels like it has a ways to go.

 

[savethecat]

Can’t see Neverland ending in under 20 volumes

 

[Ctkk]

made a thing

Spoiler: overly complicated version

Spoiler: google sheets

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hIMrw16Y63IXv1BVmQjDwVneUEQ_cU-g1MhIL2YlU4c/edit?usp=sharing

I hope Stone gets a nice anime boost because this is just sad.

 

[Xzone]

The depth of Kimetsu characters should be obvious if you just think about it. Just in the last chapter they gave an extra layer of humanism to Inosuke. His grief and resulting anger related to "the situation at hand" weren't sides we were well acquainted with beforehand. Kimetsu no Yaiba takes every opportunity to efficiently give characters a variety of reactions to various situations that flesh them out. I'm not saying each and every side character has Eren Yaeger level of development, but the characters definitely are handled better than other shonen series. Even the enemies feel human when you get their backstory.

You can call "a layer of humanism" which is an artistic way to call a "rushed character development".
I mean, I like how some things are off-screen and let's you solve the puzzle(like Zenitsu and the other breath of light student), but in the end, I barely knew nothing from the pillars and you barely care about the demon except when they die(except the third pillar).
The character barely have interaction between them , and this isn't bad (it worked thanks to Gotouge way of writing), but trying to make this a deep cast of character like if it were a Matsumoto's or Asano's work is trying to close your eyes to reality.

It's only a battle shonen with weird character wrote by a rookie who is learning.Is a good manga, but is nothing more.

And I don't want to prod you too much but your comment feels a bit lazy. I don't think you should always hope other people explain things to you. But if you genuinely couldn't see any depth at all in Kimetsu then I hope this changed your mind at least a little.

Lol calm down.

 

[supercow297]

What about it? I mean you make the points but they're still doing those things plus developing as characters. I'm not sure how you bringing those certain scenarios makes it a negative. 4Eyes made the point that when character develops the others are put on hold and its just not true. It happened all over numerous arcs. When Bakugo grew Deku grew, when Shoto grew Momo grew, when Bakugo grew Kirishima grew, When Deku grew Ochako grew. And it'll all continue until he hits the majority of Class A. In Class B Kendo, Monoma and Tetsutetsu are good characters. Lol I know why you're limiting the list to Class A and B, no sensible mangaka can properly develop 40 characters and develop a world and story at the same time. Cmon now. Literally what I said previously, for the amount of characters he has in both classes alone, he's done great job with developing and or characterizing Class A

I agree that for the amount of characters he has he's done an okay job. The problem is that he shouldn't have so many named characters with prominent design. It's just bloat.

"4Eyes made the point that when character develops the others are put on hold and its just not true". It is true. You're listing pairs of people that grew together, which is purposely ignoring the point he's making. Which is that when it's a Deku-Bakugou arc, Kaminari for example will literally be a static character. When it's a Shoto-Momo arc you can expect Kouda to literally do nothing. Characters (usually in groups of 1 to 2) will get their brief spotlight and then be forgotten for 50 chapters. This much is a fact.