Chapter Tower of God Chapter 433 Discussion / 434 Predictions

DERRICK S NIBLACK

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Baam after 2 years of training is kallavan level??? this is just ridiculous if this is true then there is no reason to even rescue Jinsung hes not dying or anything...Baam can just go and work out another 10 years and murk stomp zahard and his forces alone..
Baam after 2 years is now Ranker level at C class regular. He's been taught by a Rank 50 High Ranker, If Baam wasn't even half her strength his training wouldn't be complete. His base power magnifes at least ×50 when he uses "His power' and ignites a thorn. Baam is an irregular with 2 thorns. If he isn't at least on the level of damaging Kallavan his training was for nothing
 

Turtle hunter

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The first time he was introduced the spoiler translations said Paul/Pole IIRC

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Technically, Baam is a regular that was born to 2 irregulars in the tower.

I wonder what it is about going through those tower doors uninvited that magically imparts super-powers.
Technically Baam is a irregular , all the rest is meaningless .
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And that's what I was getting at. Just passing through the doors, with no other change at all, imparts some magical gift to the traveler.... seemingly.
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Also, as I alluded to in my post above this one, I'm starting to think that, like Enne, Baam WOUDLN'T have had limitations (effectively irregular) even if he had been born and raised in the tower.
Enne does have limitation
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And that's what I was getting at. Just passing through the doors, with no other change at all, imparts some magical gift to the traveler.... seemingly.
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Also, as I alluded to in my post above this one, I'm starting to think that, like Enne, Baam WOUDLN'T have had limitations (effectively irregular) even if he had been born and raised in the tower.
Enne does have limitation
Having unlimited potential and making actual use of it are two entirely different things. Bam has unlimited potential since season one.
The heads had a lot of time developing their abilities, the question is if all of them actually did it - and if the common growth rate for an irregular has to be faster than the growth rate of someone who isn't.
In a lot of cases, the guy who works harder beats the one witalent / "unlimited potential".




As for the irregular discussion, I think we have to differ. There are the ones that entered from the outside and weren't selected by Headon - Rachel would count as well.
And then you have what the butler guide told Evan. That the "tower" only opens the door for things he needs. As in, the tower has got some kind of consciousness. That would fit what the GoG told us - that only those who opened the door are capable of shinwonryu and stuff. Meaning that the tower gives his "champions" "special powers" to be able to do his bidding.

The question remains why the tower can't just choose a regular or High Ranker as his "champion" (or maybe it can? - Akryung, GoG,....or maybe that is a wokrshop / technology / spell thing).
If the tower can't do that, maybe it's about the original purpose of it and said purpose can only be fulfilled by people on the outside - because they need to be free of the contracts inside or .........
I don't see the point of your question . Why wouldn't they train make use of their unlimited potential . And there is somethings that you to know . Talent is much more important than training in this manga . In tower of god aging make you more stronger , training is not a necessity . The only use of training is that he make you stronger more rapidly . So even if FH didn't train wich i sincerely doubt when we see data jahad and the rivalry between FH and it wouldn't be interesting in the story if they didn't attain they attain THE level .

Headon didn't choose because she didn't posessed any potential that's all . The thing about the champion is the good theory . For dozen of thousand of years there have been 100 of Trillion of regular . Some died new regular people was born . But with all that time the tower only choose 16 rregular if i count good . So there are singularities . The tower don't whant to pick peeple wich are similar to the tower habitant wich have the same power level as them . Because he whants changes . And only open to people wich by potential can be stronger than all tower habitant i dont count precedent irregulars . So when it opens is doors . I can assure you that he only let enter crazy beast . Not only that but they have the benediction of the tower . I think that Enne could have entered the tower if she was at Baam . The two of them was born of 2 irregular parent but the factor that make Baam far ahead in term of potential is the irregular factor . Just see the latest chapter , when Hang su yuu was speaking about how Baam was blessed by the tower . And the advantage that he posesse compare to others .
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베이로드 폴
Beoi-ilodeau Pol

I think Paul should be "Peaul", and Pole should be "Poleu", but am not sure. It could be Pol as in Pol Pot.
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So far I can only think of 3 major upgrades he would lose: Thorns, Shinworyu and Revolution. He can be untraceable by Guides and use Shinsoo without a contract as well, tho. The rest would still be his.
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It is stated in lore that Adori has no noticeable achievements after becoming a ranker, tho. It should be a matter of Power for real.
She has no much achievement by herself but she has squadron under herself . If she is the leader she can take account of all the credit . Furthemore she is the leader of all Jahad army and all Jahad princess . I think that she could destroy a whole family with her army . Her position could give her this position . It is thd same for Luslec and Urek friends .
 

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Baam after 2 years is now Ranker level at C class regular. He's been taught by a Rank 50 High Ranker, If Baam wasn't even half her strength his training wouldn't be complete. His base power magnifes at least ×50 when he uses "His power' and ignites a thorn. Baam is an irregular with 2 thorns. If he isn't at least on the level of damaging Kallavan his training was for nothing
That not how powers in tog works it about skill as much as raw power, bam multipliers aren't x50 come on now at least x3-5 should be the limit, remember thorn 1 ignition bam used triple orbs that was his limit, looking at the size of the orb now bam should be able to handle much more power, but that still wouldn't be 20% of it power, the thorns are massive when uncompressed that why bam needs to be at ranker strength no hax, to beat or fight evenly with high rankers, it's not like he defeating these rankers right now or even hurting them.

his natural abilities without the reservoir is at least top b class, his training isn't useless if he can't beat kallavan now or soon, you think bam is stronger than jinsung,yhs, evan, etc,already? His training isn't over yet anyway it's only been 2 years, this is why bam scratching kallavan is a mistake cause he gets underrated when he was clearly toying with bam.
 

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That not how powers in tog works it about skill as much as raw power, bam multipliers aren't x50 come on now at least x3-5 should be the limit, remember thorn 1 ignition bam used triple orbs that was his limit, looking at the size of the orb now bam should be able to handle much more power, but that still wouldn't be 20% of it power, the thorns are massive when uncompressed that why bam needs to be at ranker strength no hax, to beat or fight evenly with high rankers, it's not like he defeating these rankers right now or even hurting them.

his natural abilities without the reservoir is at least top b class, his training isn't useless if he can't beat kallavan now or soon, you think bam is stronger than jinsung,yhs, evan, etc,already? His training isn't over yet anyway it's only been 2 years, this is why bam scratching kallavan is a mistake cause he gets underrated when he was clearly toying with bam.
Why are you saying "without the reservoir"? , the reservoir is also his power it's a singularity he possesses, it will always be his power, there is no without the reservoir. If you say so then without eob kallavan would be stomped in no time by jinsung, he only won because of it. If bam with the reservoir is ranker level then base baam is ranker level.
 

link to the past

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That not how powers in tog works it about skill as much as raw power, bam multipliers aren't x50 come on now at least x3-5 should be the limit, remember thorn 1 ignition bam used triple orbs that was his limit, looking at the size of the orb now bam should be able to handle much more power, but that still wouldn't be 20% of it power, the thorns are massive when uncompressed that why bam needs to be at ranker strength no hax, to beat or fight evenly with high rankers, it's not like he defeating these rankers right now or even hurting them.

his natural abilities without the reservoir is at least top b class, his training isn't useless if he can't beat kallavan now or soon, you think bam is stronger than jinsung,yhs, evan, etc,already? His training isn't over yet anyway it's only been 2 years, this is why bam scratching kallavan is a mistake cause he gets underrated when he was clearly toying with bam.

How much more power stripping can Bam take really? It is absurd to say that after his display of power he is about top b regular and strip him one more of his powers to re-enforce it. He dealt with one of Pauls top rankers without the reservoir. Not a single ranker Bam has faced managed to do even a scratch on him and yet people are still saying that he is about top tier regular in power?

The only reason Bam doesn't seem all powerful compared to characters like Paul is that he is not a killing machine, he won't kill unless it's unavoidable. While Varagarv was a pain for Bam for example he tried a lot not to kill him. Paul on the other hand killed others on sight without much thought.
 

Jedikos

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Yh Baam is really going to shock the tower, he definitely will beat Kallavan,no doubt about that, the only cost will be that, I believe that battle will be bloody, Baam isn't going to come out neat and tidy, he will be bloodied. Best case scenario, will end up with Baam's clothes torn and a few wounds on his body and Kallavan absolutely beaten. Worst case, Baam beats Kallavan but then he gets really hurt along with stressing himself to that limit sending him unconscious leaving him in danger and he gets saved by FUG along with Jinsung Ha. He wakes up and the mission was a success! Lol
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And Baam scratching Kallavan is no mistake, thorn ignition with Baam's power at last station shocked even Yuri and Hansung ,and injured Kallavan, no mistake there. Besides , Kallavan himself said that not even high rankers can hurt him, and yet our boy did, if after 2 years of hellish training he can't beat Kallavan, then SIU wouldn't continue from there
 

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Technically Baam is a irregular , all the rest is meaningless .
Based on what? I personally think his distinction could come into play. Maybe not. But it is interesting he isn't like any other irregular, and why wouldn't that be notable?

Enne does have limitation
How do you know? What makes you think she isn't using her potential at the same rate if not at a greater rate than the 10FH? She is younger than them, yet still ranks above several (this indicates a faster grow rate). And that's not because she's more politically powerful than a family head. That HAS to be a strength rating.
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Oh, and Baam is now C-rank officially, no? He's up past floor 50 so IIRC that makes regulars C-ranked. Although he should have blown by all C, B, A, (S?) regulars in power if he's going to be fighting rankers almost exclusively now.

Not sure how much more proof we need he's ranker-level at this point. To me it's just a matter of where he falls on the ranker rankings lol

'he has ranker power but not ranker skill in combat or experience' isn't an argument anymore, IMO.
 

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Based on what? I personally think his distinction could come into play. Maybe not. But it is interesting he isn't like any other irregular, and why wouldn't that be notable?



How do you know? What makes you think she isn't using her potential at the same rate if not at a greater rate than the 10FH? She is younger than them, yet still ranks above several (this indicates a faster grow rate). And that's not because she's more politically powerful than a family head. That HAS to be a strength rating.
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Oh, and Baam is now C-rank officially, no? He's up past floor 50 so IIRC that makes regulars C-ranked. Although he should have blown by all C, B, A, (S?) regulars in power if he's going to be fighting rankers almost exclusively now.

Not sure how much more proof we need he's ranker-level at this point. To me it's just a matter of where he falls on the ranker rankings lol

'he has ranker power but not ranker skill in combat or experience' isn't an argument anymore, IMO.
Bam having the capacity to fight rankers now is a given. The only distinction I would make here is in what exactly it takes for him to do that power up wise. There is a fairly big difference between bam being able to take on a ranker in his base (as in, no powerups) and with power ups. So, with powerups he can certainly do it (with the shinsoo reservoir, shinwonryu, revolution, thorns, black march). The question at that point would be how powerup a ranker bam can take by himself. But I'd make the point that odds are he can't take a ranker with only his base skills. And there is a reason that is important in the long run. Lets look at gustang or zahard.... Do they need any powerups to take on, say, kallavan? I am not inclined to thinking that is their situation. Of course there likely are tower residents the family heads can't take on without powerups of their own but odds are that they are well stronger than most high rankers even without powerups.
 

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Based on what? I personally think his distinction could come into play. Maybe not. But it is interesting he isn't like any other irregular, and why wouldn't that be notable?



How do you know? What makes you think she isn't using her potential at the same rate if not at a greater rate than the 10FH? She is younger than them, yet still ranks above several (this indicates a faster grow rate). And that's not because she's more politically powerful than a family head. That HAS to be a strength rating.
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Oh, and Baam is now C-rank officially, no? He's up past floor 50 so IIRC that makes regulars C-ranked. Although he should have blown by all C, B, A, (S?) regulars in power if he's going to be fighting rankers almost exclusively now.

Not sure how much more proof we need he's ranker-level at this point. To me it's just a matter of where he falls on the ranker rankings lol

'he has ranker power but not ranker skill in combat or experience' isn't an argument anymore, IMO.
About Enne.... being regular, she needs contract to use shinsoo, so she does have limitation... at one point she would hit her cap.
That being said, I do believe that her growth rate and cap could be higher than the current power of some FHs.
Technically, it is possible.. but at some point she would be restricted to whatever her contracts allow her to do.

That power/ranking discussion about the top is never ending and we won't have an answer until SIU show it to us.
Personally, I think it would be pretty cool to have Adori/Enne beating a FH later on (although not killing.. since they are immortals)
 

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About Enne.... being regular, she needs contract to use shinsoo, so she does have limitation... at one point she would hit her cap.
That being said, I do believe that her growth rate and cap could be higher than the current power of some FHs.
Technically, it is possible.. but at some point she would be restricted to whatever her contracts allow her to do.

That power/ranking discussion about the top is never ending and we won't have an answer until SIU show it to us.
Personally, I think it would be pretty cool to have Adori/Enne beating a FH later on (although not killing.. since they are immortals)
I'm not sure Enne qualifies as a regular. And, yes, I know she was born in the tower. Think about it. I think that's one reason she's ranking so high and so highly powerful. And why she ranked higher than some FH in a shorter period of time. I think she's functionally irregular.

I'm also not sure the 10FH cannot be killed. I think only Zahard cannot be killed.
 

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No matter how you spin it there is big difference to being actual ranker strength and using a technique to achieve it, end of the day bam is still a regular in strength and skill, we as readers should be aware of this.

we know the reservoir is a massive boost it has it own skill tree, like the orb, thorns,etc he is drawing power from a source beyond his normal capacity, again we know this as readers, look at akryung you think bam was gonna easily defeat him without the loop? Didn't look like it was gonna be a stroll for bam without the loops, that the strongest c class to bam, don't see why some of you are acting like you don't have an understanding of bam powers already, his base powers no haxs have to be at ranker level before he can seriously do some damage, it's not like he is far off he is almost A class in strength, 5 more years he is a ranker at this pace.

Bam is impressive and clearly can fight rankers when he uses his items,etc, but the whole point of bam fight with kallavan and evanhkell training him, is to highlight that he spams them too much, he has to master himself before the extra powers this much is clear, if he was ranker strength already why doesn't he go solo to rescue jinsung, all he has to do is activate all of his powers, should be easy for him to wipe out a fleet of rankers with one move, he is as strong as jinsung as he is now, you guys are excited about bam don't let me stop you.
 
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No matter how you spin it there is big difference to being actual ranker strength and using a technique to achieve it, end of the day bam is still a regular in strength and skill, we as readers should be aware of this.

we know the reservoir is a massive boost it has it own skill tree, like the orb, thorns,etc he is drawing power from a source beyond his normal capacity, again we know this as readers, look at akryung you think bam was gonna easily defeat him without the loop? Didn't look like it was gonna be a stroll for bam without the loops, that the strongest c class to bam, don't see why some of you are acting like you don't have an understanding of bam powers already, his base powers no haxs have to be at ranker level before he can seriously do some damage, it's not like he is far off he is almost A class in strength, 5 more years he is a ranker at this pace.

Bam is impressive and clearly can fight rankers when he uses his items,etc, but the whole point of bam fight with kallavan and evanhkell training him, is to highlight that he spams them too much, he has to master himself before the extra powers this much is clear, if he was ranker strength already why doesn't he go solo to rescue jinsung, all he has to do is activate all of his powers, should be easy for him to wipe out a fleet of rankers with one move, he is as strong as jinsung as he is now, you guys are excited about bam don't let me stop you.
There is a wide, wide range in just rankers. So Baam can be ranker-level all day and still not be on Kallavan or anyone else in particular's level.

5 more years to ranker?

SIU in his latest blog has said that this arc has a bunch of strong enemies. They're basically all rankers, mid-rankers, and even high-rankers.

If Baam isn't AT LEAST low-level ranker by now he should just hang it up.
 

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The reservoirs alone shows bam can be relevant against rankers without breaking the restrictions, that the function story wise as I said bam wasn't walking over akryung the strongest c class he met, before the loops that alone is an indicator of his range without the hax, bam is powerful but he is not there yet and doesn't have to be imo.
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Everything that makes bam ranker level is an external power, bam without those is extremely powerful still but he has a long way to go still, 5 years is two or three time skips easy, bam being at top b class seems on point, we have yet to see top A class the real special ones, there is a lot of room for regulars still, just try not to get upset when bam isn't soloing every regular going forward.
 

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So what happens when every enemy Baam faces in the Yama arc is going to be ranker and above?
 

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The reservoirs alone shows bam can be relevant against rankers without breaking the restrictions, that the function story wise as I said bam wasn't walking over akryung the strongest c class he met, before the loops that alone is an indicator of his range without the hax, bam is powerful but he is not there yet and doesn't have to be imo.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Everything that makes bam ranker level is an external power, bam without those is extremely powerful still but he has a long way to go still, 5 years is two or three time skips easy, bam being at top b class seems on point, we have yet to see top A class the real special ones, there is a lot of room for regulars still, just try not to get upset when bam isn't soloing every regular going forward.
You do understand that according to the story there is a very low chance of any regular no matter if he is rank a or not, due to the power difference to survive any encounter with a ranker. There was no mention that a rank is an exception to that, just that there were extremely few exceptions to that in the history of the tower to seem improbable.

Yet bam not only has survived any encounter with a ranker so far he did it unscathed and had them pushed back instead. This alone is an indication that he is at minimum equal and pretty much on top of his ranker opponents. You don't leave a fight unscathed and push back your opponents being considerably weaker in power.

As for the shinsu reservoir is a technique Bam learned due to his own capabilities, not an outside power he absorbed from someone else or from an object. He trained and learned it, being an op move is irrelevant. You will have to start removing his opponents techniques as well if you want to go that route which is a borderline ridiculous thing to do.
 
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shaheer

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And that's not because she's more politically powerful than a family head. That HAS to be a strength rating.
She is the most powerful princess, head of Zahards whole army and has the S class 13 month weapon ofcourse she is ranked that high. Yuris rank went up after she found green april iirc and she doesnt seem to be head of any army squad yet.
 

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So what happens when every enemy Baam faces in the Yama arc is going to be ranker and above?
if Baam one-shots someone Karaka caliber easily then Baam is worth facing kallavan... i cant see that happening
 

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She is the most powerful princess,
I'm suggesting there's a reason for that, and it's not a happy accident that any 'regular' could find themselves in...

head of Zahards whole army
You're thinking Adori, but she (Adori) could have similar heritage - we don't know yet.

and has the S class 13 month weapon
This is a gift for being strong/feats, not a REASON for her ranking. But, again you're thinking Adori. No feat by a princess can compare with feats by FH's. And there are S-class weapons that the FH's have. So, all things the same a weapon alone shouldn't justify a higher or equal rank to a FH.

ofcourse she is ranked that high.
None of these 'reasons' justify her being ranked higher than Family Heads, who should best her in every field based on what we think we know. They should be more powerful, have more clout, more pull, etc. They are more ancient, more established, all irregulars, have the same access to S-class weapons (and even apparently S+ class weapons...), have their own armies, are OG's with Zahard, etc. Nothing Enne, or even Adori since you are talking about her, can do can compete. It's like you're comparing Lulsec to V. He's still a subordinate. Princesses should be subordinate to the FH's, by strength and by rep, and Enne should be at least ranked below each of her parents as FH's themselves. That is, unless, she's functionally an irregular by being full-blooded from two irregulars. Then, add Z-blood for good measure.

So, again, on paper the only thing that can justify her ranking above FH's is her strength. Otherwise, she should rank very high, but not above family heads. Except, I don't think her ranking among them is an accident - solely because of her HERITAGE.

Enne is different from every other child of the FH's in the tower, aside from baby Baam. (that we know so far). I suspect that is the number one reason she is so strong and ranks so high.

Enne's rank isn't coincidental IMO considering her FULL-BLOODED heritage. I suspect we'll discover the same for other extremely high-rankers, such as Adori and maybe even Baek.

Yuris rank went up after she found green april iirc and she doesnt seem to be head of any army squad yet.
Yuri could never rank above a FH irrespective of what weapon she had (IMO). And that's the point.

People seem to be too stuck on feats and political good-will/clout as being relevant in the ranking structure just because it is added as a trait that is measured, yet everything in the tower points to strength being the primary trait that is measured (feats are impossible without strength, clout is much easier with... strength). Nevertheless, even considering secondary traits such as political clout (btw, we're talking Enne... she should have little to none given her current status yet she is STILL ranked 7th... her overwhelming strength is literally the only thing that could justify this as she is persona non grata) there is still nothing a princess could do that a FH couldn't - as an ancient irregular with so-called nigh-unlimited power - just as good or better. Princesses are MADE to not be able to compete with FH's, yet here we have Enne and even Adori. They're made to be second-tier. They are literally MADE.








if Baam one-shots someone Karaka caliber easily then Baam is worth facing kallavan... i cant see that happening
But that doesn't really answer the question. If Baam faces nothing but rankers from now on, how does one justify Baam not being AT LEAST ranker-level now?
 
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You do understand that according to the story there is a very low chance of any regular no matter if he is rank a or not, due to the power difference to survive any encounter with a ranker. There was no mention that a rank is an exception to that, just that there were extremely few exceptions to that in the history of the tower to seem improbable.

Yet bam not only has survived any encounter with a ranker so far he did it unscathed and had them pushed back instead. This alone is an indication that he is at minimum equal and pretty much on top of his ranker opponents. You don't leave a fight unscathed and push back your opponents being considerably weaker in power.

As for the shinsu reservoir is a technique Bam learned due to his own capabilities, not an outside power he absorbed from someone else or from an object. He trained and learned it, being an op move is irrelevant. You will have to start removing his opponents techniques as well if you want to go that route which is a borderline ridiculous thing to do.
It doesn't change the fact that bam is drawing power from a source like the rest of his powers, that shows he is using power beyond his own capacity to fill the power gap this much has been explained the source or technique is irrelevant.

Bam isn't even defeating the rankers but he can fight them which shows his growth but that far as it goes, you guys are acting like he can defeat them if he wanted too, bam hit dog priest at point blank with ocean levels of shinsu, he seemed fine to me what if didn't use the loops? Is he ranker level? Again he wasn't walking over akryung without it.

So what happens when every enemy Baam faces in the Yama arc is going to be ranker and above?
Then more loops, bam speed and skills are enough to face rankers, I'm sure he could beat low rankers with the loops, but without it he is a regular still and when he is fighting regulars without the loops and having a hard time, then it's gonna be called a plothole when it's not.
 

Jubei_Kibagami

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Then more loops, bam speed and skills are enough to face rankers, I'm sure he could beat low rankers with the loops, but without it he is a regular still and when he is fighting regulars without the loops and having a hard time, then it's gonna be called a plothole when it's not.
So, um, that's how he fights now.

That's like saying Maschenny without lightning/spear attacks, Charlie without his sensory-deprivation, Mule Love without his trademark inventory/iron man contract/wonsul moves, etc etc.

Rankers are often able to rank due to their trademark powers and abilities. Not in spite of them.

Basically, you're admitting he's ranker level with his loops. Which he uses effortlessly as that's how he fights. Soooooo, he's ranker level.
 
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