Chapter Tower of God Chapter 433 Discussion / 434 Predictions

[Orbs2op]

Apparently so, since that's what happened in that chapter.

I just re read the chapter that didn't not happen Evan saves him, shinwonryu cancelled the remaining shinsu.

 

[King Dryst]

shinwonryu cancelled the remaining shinsu.

Yes, that's what I've been saying. Except it cancelled all of it. Evan didn't do anything to counter Karaka's attack. He just pulled Baam away from it.

 

[Orbs2op]

That he developed from nothing other than his own skill and talent, unlike the Thorn or his other toys that he isn't using. It seems to me that you're deliberately holding Baam to a standard that you aren't willing to apply to others in an attempt to downplay him.

You seem to have no issue with either of those two canine Rankers using their transformations...

But that doesn't excuse the function of the technique which works like eob, you have base bam and you have the loop which stored shinsu that he can call upon to use that different from standard wave controlling there is big gap between the two.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 6, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 6, 2019 ---

Yes, that's what I've been saying. Except it cancelled all of it. Evan didn't do anything to counter Karaka's attack. He just pulled Baam away from it.

He grab him out of the way go read it, the attack would have hit him head on.

The orb granted bam the ability to use shinwonryu to its full potential instantly.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Nah that a cop out cause bam has shinwonryu and his orb, he used the loops cause he was short on time and he knew akryung is stalling, no loops he ain't quickly beating akryung, loops are apart of his base abilities but it's the function of it that shows bam isn't there yet.

How should Baam have attacked Akryung? How would a ranker?

 

[King Dryst]

Honestly though, as far as I'm concerned this entire debate is ridiculous. If Baam defeats a Ranker under any conditions whatsoever, then that's his actual level. I don't care if he goes Revolution, stabs himself with both Thorns and Black March, and uses the reservoir, the orb and shinwonryu all at the same time.

If you beat the man, you are the man. Pure and simple.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 6, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 6, 2019 ---

He grab him out of the way go read it, the attack would have hit him head on.

The orb granted bam the ability to use shinwonryu to its full potential instantly.

Maybe? But so what? I'm not arguing that Baam is better than Karaka. I'm arguing that his shinwonryu destroyed the World of Darkness when the two collided. Meanwhile, Baam managed to tear apart Akryung's pissant attempt at shinwonryu using normal shinsoo.

 

[Orbs2op]

How should Baam have attacked Akryung? How would a ranker?

Did all of bam other abilities and skills vanished, he could have taken akryung straight up no loops, it's not a cake walk cause he isn't a ranker yet, can't see how am I not getting this point across.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Did all of bam other abilities and skills vanished, he could have taken akryung straight up no loops, it's not a cake walk cause he isn't a ranker yet, can't see how am I not getting this point across.

Neither can I.

Would a ranker just shrug off shinwonryu? Would Yuri?

 

[Orbs2op]

Honestly though, as far as I'm concerned this entire debate is ridiculous. If Baam defeats a Ranker under any conditions whatsoever, then that's his actual level. I don't care if he goes Revolution, stabs himself with both Thorns and Black March, and uses the reservoir, the orb and shinwonryu all at the same time.

If you beat the man, you are the man. Pure and simple.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 6, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 6, 2019 ---

Maybe? But so what? I'm not arguing that Baam is better than Karaka. I'm arguing that his shinwonryu destroyed the World of Darkness when the two collided. Meanwhile, Baam managed to tear apart Akryung's pissant attempt at shinwonryu using normal shinsoo.

That makes no sense cause the attack would've killed him that the point your wrong.

Kallavan, evanhkell, and all the other high rankers all said bam is item spamming and he has no real skills to handle that much power, they can look shocked all they want they know what they are seeing, that the whole point of working on his base abilities, and the loops are a way to hold back from using the extra powers, so bam skills with all that fire power can't hurt a ranker yet but can easily cut a regular in 2 a lot of indicator here.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 6, 2019 ---

Neither can I.

Would a ranker just shrug off shinwonryu? Would Yuri?

Why wouldn't they? As long as the power gap is huge, a bang is a bang.

 

[kkck]

That he developed from nothing other than his own skill and talent, unlike the Thorn or his other toys that he isn't using. It seems to me that you're deliberately holding Baam to a standard that you aren't willing to apply to others in an attempt to downplay him.

Bam definitely is doing that of his own skill and talent. And I would even argue the other stuff is also, to an extent, that as well (since he did learn how to use shinwonryu via training and revolution required a fair bit of time to develop). But most of that stuff is different from, say, a flare wave in how it affects bam's overall power. The reservoir, shinwonryu, revolution, the thorn.... they are simply power boosts that stack on top of each other.

And most rankers we have seen don't have access to anything like this. Even in the case of canine people who have access to literal transformations.... But in their case we can easily make the case that, say, jordan is ranker level even without it. And his actual skills probably are comparable to that of other relevant rankers. Bam's actual situation in turn is a bit more contrived than that.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

That makes no sense cause the attack would've killed him that the point your wrong.

Kallavan, evanhkell, and all the other high rankers all said bam is item spamming and he has no real skills to handle that much power, they can look shocked all they want they know what they are seeing, that the whole point of working on his base abilities, and the loops are a way to hold back from using the extra powers, so bam skills with all that fire power can't hurt a ranker yet but can easily cut a regular in 2 a lot of indicator here.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 6, 2019 ---

Why wouldn't they?

So are the damn rings base level or not??

Also, he didn't just cut any old regular in half. He cut a supposed IRREGULAR that has been shown to be stupid OP for a regular that is under the instructions of probably the most important character in the tower. That was using shinwonryu.

Baam 'spams' his high-level buffs against the highest of rankers.

He didn't even scrape the bottom of the bucket for Kallavan.

 

[King Dryst]

And most rankers we have seen don't have access to anything like this.

Because they're fundamentally lesser than him, and wouldn't be able to use most of them even if they did have the chance to gain access to them. The only reason he's not just tearing the likes of these to pieces is because Evankhell told him not to actually try.

What do you really think is going to happen when the shackles come off? Baam's 'true' level is whatever he can do while using everything in his toolbox.

 

[link to the past]

Bam overcame Akryung's shinwonryu by using an oversaturation of shinsoo attacks that Akryung couldn't respond. No normal shinsoo attack can overpower shinwonryu. Bam was just attacking constantly with shinsoo blasts to which Akryung couldn't respond with an equal number of shinwonryu blasts.

That was also the case with Karaka, a single shinwonryu blast from Bam cancelled a single blast from Karaka. 1 bang vs 1 bang shinwonryu will always cancel out the opponents blast no matter its power.

 

[PainTendo]

I can't understand this debate at all baam is storing all that shinsoo in himself if i understood correctly not in some item. Others can't but he can. So it is a base skill, he is a wave controller he won't fight directly but using shinsoo. When he fought the dog ranker he though he could kill him if he wanted but had to capture him. So why try to belittle his feats by removing the reservoir, it won't go away anyway.

 

[kkck]

But you said most fighters don't have powerups.

Which fight do you consider 'base-level' by a ranker then?

A wave-controller would be a great comparison.

The distinction I make here is basically whether something is a technique/skill or a powerup. So I don't hold, say, the flare wave in the same regard as shinwonryu, revolution or the reservoir. Flare wave is a specific technique which has a specific effect of turning unfortunate targets into paste (depending on their endurance). The reservoir is just a huge battery. Rapid fire shinsoo cannon is a specific technique which bombards enemies with shinsoo blasts. Shinwonryu is basically a SS transformation with the added effect of making you able to dispel traditional shinsoo. With blue oar bam shapes his shinsoo in a specific manner and uses it for a number of purposes. With revolution bam brings forth whatever he has devoured and it also works like a SS transformation at large. Granted that since bam can devour presumably almost anything there are things within it that could be either skills or powerups depending on how SIU uses it.

 

[Orbs2op]

frUOTE="Jubei_Kibagami, post: 5048051, member: 202138"]
So are the damn rings base level or not??

Also, he didn't just cut any old regular in half. He cut a supposed IRREGULAR that has been shown to be stupid OP for a regular that is under the instructions of probably the most important character in the tower. That was using shinwonryu.

Baam 'spams' his high-level buffs against the highest of rankers.

He didn't even scrape the bottom of the bucket for Kallavan.
[/QUOTE]

The loops are a power source that he draws from to makes his attacks stronger, like his other powers just because it a technique does mean it's function is different, your going around in circles for no reason.

Yeah everything you said is great but bam said he is a c class regular and he had to use the loops to beat him quickly, you know the same loops he is using against rankers, so is akryung that strong or rankers that weak?

Bam used everything he had against kallavan, he almost got desperate enough to try double thorn ignitions come on now, it's like every character is trash now outside top 50.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 6, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 6, 2019 ---

I can't understand this debate at all baam is storing all that shinsoo in himself if i understood correctly not in some item. Others can't but he can. So it is a base skill, he is a wave controller he won't fight directly but using shinsoo. When he fought the dog ranker he though he could kill him if he wanted but had to capture him. So why try to belittle his feats by removing the reservoir, it won't go away anyway.

Reservoir is a power source and the thorn is a power source, it's the function of the technique is the source of the debate, you have normal shinsu control and you have concentrated shinsu control, indicating it's a boost onto itself.

 

[King Dryst]

he almost got desperate enough to try double thorn ignitions come on now

And yet SIU deliberately chose to hold that card in reserve. Was that done to preserve the second Thorn from looking poor by likewise failing, or because it would have done too much damage?

 

[Orbs2op]

And yet SIU deliberately chose to hold that card in reserve. Was that done to preserve the second Thorn from looking poor by likewise failing, or because it would have done too much damage?

Why wouldn't it fail too? He doesn't even know how to use it, even less than the first which he ignitied recently first time before, he is not beating kallavan next week or next floor or next couple years, of this I'm certain.

 

[King Dryst]

Why wouldn't it fail too? He doesn't even know how to use it, even less than the first which he ignitied recently first time before, he is not beating kallavan next week or next floor or next couple years, of this I'm certain.

Who knows? We certainly don't, because SIU chose not to let Baam try using it.

 

[kkck]

Because they're fundamentally lesser than him, and wouldn't be able to use most of them even if they did have the chance to gain access to them. The only reason he's not just tearing the likes of these to pieces is because Evankhell told him not to actually try.

What do you really think is going to happen when the shackles come off? Baam's 'true' level is whatever he can do while using everything in his toolbox.

And what was the reason evankhel told bam to do that? To work on his basics, to get his skills to be actually comparable to that of other rankers. Bam's power is all over the place BUT there are some nuances to consider here. Sure, if the shackles come of bam will be able to simply bulldoze some rankers. But... what if he runs into a ranker who can match bam's power and also has all the weight and experience that comes with that position? Bam could have that ranker's raw power but in an actual fight bam would get schooled and spanked easily. The enemy would just be left wondering how someone with that much power can be so inept at wielding it. Hence the relevance of where bam is without his powerups. Granted that what is or isn't a powerup and what is a technique can be a bit subjective.

 

[link to the past]

And yet SIU deliberately chose to hold that card in reserve. Was that done to preserve the second Thorn from looking poor by likewise failing, or because it would have done too much damage?

He held it for story reasons so i think he wanted to use it for when it would matter more, saving Jinsung in this case. Even if it did more damage the situation of Jinsung wouldn't change at all, so he kept it for when it would had an impact in the story.