Cause he didn't vwant to reveal all its abilies yet, cause whatever it is it wouldn't be enough anyway, so it would be a pandering with no pay off, I'm pretty the moment it activated it gave bam passive space bursting on his attacks.
At this point, you're probably not finding that particular cocktail of badassery anywhere beneath High Ranker. And what it would mean is that he still is not the most powerful existence in the universe. Which is obvious, and it would be ridiculous to argue otherwise. But no more ridiculous than any claim of him still being beneath Ranker level in general. He's literally handcuffing himself and casually playing with Rankers at this very moment.
At this point, you're probably not finding that particular cocktail of badassery anywhere beneath High Ranker. And what it would mean is that he still is not the most powerful existence in the universe. Which is obvious, and it would be ridiculous to argue otherwise. But no more ridiculous than any claim of him still being beneath Ranker level in general.
How is this so hard the whole point of explaining the loops and using it, is a way to show he can be relevant against ranker without it being cheap, we have seem him without the loops is a b class to a class regular is makes a lot of sense.
If bam had ranker level shinsu capacity and skills already, he would have instantly destroyed akryung like he did with dogs, mad dog and snake guy, but he jumped straight to his special technique and using it since.
How is this so hard the whole point of explaining the loops and using it, is a way to show he can be relevant against ranker without it being cheap, we have seem him without the loops is a b class to a class regular is makes a lot of sense.
It's a nonsense line of argument. It. Does. Not. Matter. What Baam is or is not 'without the loops', because he has them and can use them as much he likes with no detriment to himself. He is out there doing this thing right now, and therefore he can do this thing. And he will be able to do a whole lot more once he actually tries as opposed to just half-assing as he's doing now with only one of his major cards in play.
If it makes you feel better to diminish Baam in your mind with this kind of blather, then have at it. The rest of us will just keep sitting back and enjoying Baam as he is right now, casually shitting on his inferiors.
How is this so hard the whole point of explaining the loops and using it, is a way to show he can be relevant against ranker without it being cheap, we have seem him without the loops is a b class to a class regular is makes a lot of sense.
If bam had ranker level shinsu capacity and skills already, he would have instantly destroyed akryung like he did with dogs, mad dog and snake guy, but he jumped straight to his special technique and using it since.
No offence Orbs2op but it seems to me you won't be satisfied by Bam power levels unless he kills everyone he meets by just farting in their general direction.
At this point, you're probably not finding that particular cocktail of badassery anywhere beneath High Ranker. And what it would mean is that he still is not the most powerful existence in the universe. Which is obvious, and it would be ridiculous to argue otherwise. But no more ridiculous than any claim of him still being beneath Ranker level in general. He's literally handcuffing himself and casually playing with Rankers at this very moment.
I am not saying bam is beneath a ranker "in general". If anything I have been pretty clear that when using all his power bam could defeat some rankers at least. BUT I have made the distinction that without powerups he probably can't take a ranker just yet (because I feel that in an important bit of context). That said, I am not particularly convinced that you specifically need a high ranker for that. I suppose we need to actually see it happening to be able to tell. At the moment I am inclined to thinking that bam isn't quite ready for people comparable to high rankers and people comparable to advanced rankers should be troublesome at a bare minimum.
The loops are a power source that he draws from to makes his attacks stronger, like his other powers just because it a technique does mean it's function is different, your going around in circles for no reason.
Then more loops, bam speed and skills are enough to face rankers, I'm sure he could beat low rankers with the loops, but without it he is a regular still and when he is fighting regulars without the loops and having a hard time, then it's gonna be called a plothole when it's not.
the loops are a way to hold back from using the extra powers, so bam skills with all that fire power can't hurt a ranker yet but can easily cut a regular in 2 a lot of indicator here.
He also wonders if he is an irregular, and notes he's using shinwornryu and spells. Not your run-of-the-mill C-class as the story and I have pointed out. I'm not sure why you keep repeating that he's C-class and glossing over all the important details surrounding him.
Yup, because that's his base-level attack now. Without whipping out the orb, thorns, or anything else. He casually broke through shinwonryu, which is supposed to be pretty f****** special, without using any crazy buffs or breaking a sweat.
You do understand that not all rankers are all on the same level? Kallavan is not Charlie. And, yes, it's kind of been hinted that Akryung IS that strong. At least higher than C-class if not even some level of ranker.
Bam used everything he had against kallavan, he almost got desperate enough to try double thorn ignitions come on now, it's like every character is trash now outside top 50.
(no, he didn't use everything at his disposal, as you concede he stopped short of using the thorn...) Which proves my point. He stopped short of using his other thorn fragment. He has gone out of his way to deny the blue demon's powers AT ALL. Not sure what happened to the souls, but he also isn't exactly going all-out with red thyssa either. That is a lot of power to shun.
Reservoir is a power source and the thorn is a power source, it's the function of the technique is the source of the debate, you have normal shinsu control and you have concentrated shinsu control, indicating it's a boost onto itself.
And using shinsoo at all is a boost. So what is your point?
I'm not sure why Baam gets shit for using BM or a thorn when every other ranker uses a weapon at their disposal. Thorn is just a weapon. So how is that any different from data Zahard using Lecalicus? Or Yuri using BM herself? Baam uses an orb? So does Evankhell and Zahard.
And I'm wondering exactly why it should be considered an important bit of context. He still can't take a Ranker without powerups? Then as a matter of course he'll just pop one, or two, or however many it takes until he can win. Unless he can't. And then we arrive at the only question of who he can or can't beat that really matters: that of who falls into that category when he's thrown down all the cards he has.
That list is getting shorter and shorter by the day. And I can just about guarantee you that there's not even one single Regular on it.
I am not saying bam is beneath a ranker "in general". If anything I have been pretty clear that when using all his power bam could defeat some rankers at least. BUT I have made the distinction that without powerups he probably can't take a ranker just yet (because I feel that in an important bit of context). That said, I am not particularly convinced that you specifically need a high ranker for that. I suppose we need to actually see it happening to be able to tell. At the moment I am inclined to thinking that bam isn't quite ready for people comparable to high rankers and people comparable to advanced rankers should be troublesome at a bare minimum.
In this chapter the guy that Bam casually ignored and went past him should be at the very least an advanced ranker, being one of Paul's top generals. Yama's top 3 generals are high rankers, even number 8 (Jordan) is an advanced ranker so i doubt that Paul's top 3 are not even that and are plain rankers.
The distinction I make here is basically whether something is a technique/skill or a powerup. So I don't hold, say, the flare wave in the same regard as shinwonryu, revolution or the reservoir. Flare wave is a specific technique which has a specific effect of turning unfortunate targets into paste (depending on their endurance). The reservoir is just a huge battery. Rapid fire shinsoo cannon is a specific technique which bombards enemies with shinsoo blasts. Shinwonryu is basically a SS transformation with the added effect of making you able to dispel traditional shinsoo. With blue oar bam shapes his shinsoo in a specific manner and uses it for a number of purposes. With revolution bam brings forth whatever he has devoured and it also works like a SS transformation at large. Granted that since bam can devour presumably almost anything there are things within it that could be either skills or powerups depending on how SIU uses it.
OK, I'm just asking if there's a good example of a ranker not using a specialty move or weapon. I'm not saying it's not the case, but none come to mind. Seems like everyone is using whatever is at their disposal as it is appropriate for battle.
Do you have an example of a ranker just using base moves against an opponent that wasn't totally worthless? (for example, Urek fighting low-levels with high level attacks is silly as his fingers literally have more power than most rankers). A fight where a ranker was fighting someone at their level or greater...?
And what was the reason evankhel told bam to do that? To work on his basics, to get his skills to be actually comparable to that of other rankers. Bam's power is all over the place BUT there are some nuances to consider here. Sure, if the shackles come of bam will be able to simply bulldoze some rankers. But... what if he runs into a ranker who can match bam's power and also has all the weight and experience that comes with that position? Bam could have that ranker's raw power but in an actual fight bam would get schooled and spanked easily. The enemy would just be left wondering how someone with that much power can be so inept at wielding it. Hence the relevance of where bam is without his powerups. Granted that what is or isn't a powerup and what is a technique can be a bit subjective.
I'm pretty sure it was also said explicitly that training basics will make the high-level shit more stable and more powerful. Baam's just shoring up his foundation - this doesn't mean he'll rely on base-level punches when fighting rankers and above, no different than rankers do when fighting other rankers.
Cause he didn't vwant to reveal all its abilies yet, cause whatever it is it wouldn't be enough anyway, so it would be a pandering with no pay off, I'm pretty the moment it activated it gave bam passive space bursting on his attacks.
OK, I'm just asking if there's a good example of a ranker not using a specialty move or weapon. I'm not saying it's not the case, but none come to mind. Seems like everyone is using whatever is at their disposal as it is appropriate for battle.
Do you have an example of a ranker just using base moves against an opponent that wasn't totally worthless? (for example, Urek fighting low-levels with high level attacks is silly as his fingers literally have more power than most rankers). A fight where a ranker was fighting someone at their level or greater...?
Closest I can think of is Lero-ro against Madoraco's goon back at the Workshop Battle. Maybe Yuri against Pedro also, but there was a large difference in power there.
Closest I can think of is Lero-ro against Madoraco's goon back at the Workshop Battle. Maybe Yuri against Pedro also, but there was a large difference in power there.
I meant more along the lines of just what Yuri was doing. She...basically threw an uppercut and used one shinsoo blast that wasn't really anything special (Androssi was able to make a Great Value version of it with a month of training).
I meant more along the lines of just what Yuri was doing. She...basically threw an uppercut and used one shinsoo blast that wasn't really anything special (Androssi was able to make a Great Value version of it with a month of training).
Right, but she relied on her specialty - her Ha body hardness. Nuclear punch is like her version as a more hand-to-hand combatant of Baam using Rings or even orb as a wave-controller.
She didn't have to pull out Rose Shower or Kronos or whatever in part because she's just that much stronger and in part because she's still on the train.
But the ranker she fought against used everything at his disposal - including a weapon.
I guess my point is rankers aren't going around only using base attacks for the most part, so if they use 'moves' or 'buffs' or energy-attacks unique to them or weapons why can't Baam for an apples to apples comparison?
He was easily ranker level 2 years ago , so yes with the torn he is HR now . Shinsoo loops is one of his powerups yes i do agree but ha has basically 0 restriction . so the point of your argumentation don't count it's like wondering if goku can defeat Buu without transforming himself into supersayan it has no interest . People said that Baam has used is strongest technique agaisnt Akryung . you are only assuming , if he has cut Akryung Shinwonryuu and Akryung himself i can definitely picture Baam beat him with a less stronger technique easily . And i do think that his shinsoo loops can be more stronger . It was only the introduction of his skill . And it was stated that Kallavan and Jinsung was using a skill similar , a blessing . so we can assume that HRhigher or equivalent to them should be able to use it . So why not Baam ?
Also no Baam didn't pulverized Karaka attack he only discipated Karaka remaining shinsoo that was flotting in the air .
And also no , surey Shinworyuu is a far superior technique than Bang . But if Baam throw is shinworyuu against one of Urek Bang he will surely die .
The Baam i see now is one of the more relaxed i saw . he is basically toying like in garden in a Slayer domain where there is a lot of ranker . I never saw him like in all precedent arc . he is sure of his power . it is the confidence that you have when you are sure of your power . when you know that you gave enter the higher level . Even when the ranker of this chapter took Baam at surprise he never felt fear .
At the last station with Kallavan and co . Baam defeated a dozen of C rank regular witth is most basics skill and without any power boost . It is like Luffy using a regular gum gum pistol without any gear. So he was clearly in A rank level if he would use is maximum skill without any torn . So the point about Baam being A is not valide . Baam as train with the strongest regular and i am sure he surpassed him . So base Baam is surely ranker level . Now the real question is how far in ranker level , in my opinion he is at advanced ranker level . Come on guys . Baam was a regular who was a talented regular who was only capable of copying and fighting normal regular aka Daniel and in a couple months . He was able to toy with 2 ranker . Defeat Jahad data and hurting Kallavan . So in 2 years with a master like Evankhell and HSY . It is easy to guess that base Baam is ranker level .
about adori to be at 7 rank she obviously did somehing . So she obvioulsy done something when ranking administration was on . while family was only
active before the ranking administration when they was climbing . i see them like those old monster who dissapeared of the ranking because of their inaction . sure they take some part in there family but only that . The only thing keeping them in the top is there influence . And i think that Adori statue is superior than FH statue .
Baam is only a regular still because he hasn't had the time to rank. He's only been traveling for a few years which is no time at all in the tower. This in no way means he doesn't (at least NOW if not previously) have the power to be able to rank, and take on other new, low-level rankers (at least).
Most regulars don't
- fight an ancient Slayer
- go on the Hell Train at all
- go to the data floor, destroy it and best data Zahard
- undergo 'revolution'
- visit the FoD
- 'fix' FoD
- fight against Zahard's army including a commander at Kallavan's level
- have almost every exam fixed against them
- whatever else is missed that is non-traditional to advance up the tower
Now, sure, Baam has a lot of high-level help too, but most regulars are just advancing up the tower, fighting each other and passing exams. Baam has taken a million side-paths that would kill most if not all regulars attempting them.
And it's not like he's done so with a full-blown thorn erection the entire time. But even if he had, that's his weapon now so whatever. Most everyone else cannot use it. Yuri can't even ignite BM. If Baam is doing high-level shit while a baby regular, he's certainly next-level now. Training the basics has improved everything, including high-level attacks. For instance, he can probably use the thorn to a greater extent and for a longer time now. Probably. Evankhell can kill mere rankers with one hand so I can't imagine Baam isn't being trained to be at the level of fodder rankers AT LEAST.
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Baam is doing what YHS can only dream of doing, casually. Base-level. He's a freaking ranker.
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Didn't want this buried. Soul talk really deserves its own thread though.
This discussion has me wondering about the Floor of Death, now.
You pay with your soul if you go in the front door, this is implied to be bad. We never find out exactly why it's bad, and it wouldn't make sense if it's fatal, either: "to go inside I have to kill you before you go inside" is an incoherent proposition.
Rachel also had the mistaken belief "one soul == one door unlock". Where'd she get that specific idea?
I don't have an actual theory, but you've got me wondering if similar mechanics are going to be in play for Baam's exit, acquisition of irregular status, and maybe Arlene's fate. Lots of options, actually.
Perhaps Baam's original soul was left behind in the tower. Maybe just because he died. Maybe Arlene kept it attached to his non-decaying body until she found the exit, and paid his exit fee with it—no big deal by then because he's already dead, right? Maybe he lost it at death, and Arlene bought his exit with her soul.
What's funny, here, is if we have this mechanic in play then Akryung could be powered by Baam's original soul or Arlene's soul. First option is actually really funny: imagine Headon's been keeping Baam's soul on ice for however long, then Baam shows up and he already has one, right—"Now what am I going to do with this?" Or that same concept but with Arlene's soul.
Yeah, there's a million possibilities, but it probably won't be that surprising in hindsight. You have Baam and V's bodies, plus their souls. Or any other irregular that came with the OG13. Souls being a central theme. And Arlen being a witch able to do some shit with souls no doubt.
Headon is the ferryman. He's always wheelin' and dealin'. If Arlen got out, rest assured Headon was involved. And how did he get paid? We know he has Akryung as his personal robot. I can't imagine Arlen not being involved in Akryung's creation.
I've said it before but Headon is up to some stuff that any government would find him guilty of treason. I suspect he's a double-agent and sympathetic to Arlen/Enryu and pushing an anti-Zahard agenda. He's certainly networking like he is. I mean, I'm not saying there IS collusion, but it certainly looks like it... heh
We don't know what soul or mixture of souls inhabits Baam. Is it Baam or 'Baam'? Would he have been the same had he grown up in the tower? Is the blue demon a fragment of the 'god' (posing as a god, but a demon?)?
Is that what Garam can't tell Baam? That the incantation went wrong and the 'god' wasn't exactly very friendly? (have any of you read/seen 'The Magicians'?). Will blue demon pop out like Kurama at the worst of times and change Baam or overtake his personality? We certainly haven't seen the last of it, and it apparently has godlike powers that could take over the entire tower....
I do think the "child of two great warriors" thing will come up again: Garam filling Baam in on Enne's backstory explains how Garam knows what she knows, but seems doubly-significant due to Enne being another "kid of two great warriors". Feels like an undropped shoe. It's an interesting concept for those kids to be "all but irregular", for sure.
It only makes sense. Enne is from outside the tower... depending on how you look at it. She wasn't a natural birth with a natural 'plan' organic to the tower - her entire genetic makeup (another ToG theme) is essentially from outside the tower. This is a distinction every other child the 10FH's have don't have, so far as we know (I suspect some other high-ranking 'regulars' might enjoy a similar heritage - Adori and Baek...).
A big deal has been made about her heritage too.
Baam was most likely also an irregular when born. At least in essence. He's twice an irregular now.
Also, consider this... legality is another theme. Irregulars are outside tower laws initially.
Irregulars are, from a legal perspective, best described as diplomats (from another country/outside tower) enjoying diplomatic immunity (not restricted/subject to tower laws/contracts).
It gets better.
(at least here in the US, and probably common practice elsewhere) - if a diplomat brings his own family to foreign soil they too have diplomatic immunity (Ilarde for instance). If a diplomat has a CHILD on that foreign soil with their diplomat spouse (like two irregulars) then that child is NOT a citizen and still enjoys diplomatic immunity (effectively an irregular - Enne?). If a diplomat has a child with a NATIVE then that child is considered a citizen (an irregular having a kid with a tower inhabitant - basically every family heir that isn't Enne or Baam). The half-breeds are "subject to the jurisdiction of the United States" (not irregulars as we see for most of the kids from the 10 families).
A. PurposeThe child of a foreign diplomatic officer accredited by the U.S. Department of State who is born in the United States may voluntarily regis
www.uscis.gov
Enne's rank isn't coincidence.
Put another way, if I have two parents that are ethnically/racially ______ (African, Korean, Italian, whatever) and they give birth to me in the US, I may be a citizen born here (not if they're diplomats though, ahem, Enne) but I'm still that ethnic/racial homogeneity in the physical and genetic sense. I might not be born in Africa/Korean peninsula/Italy but I'd still be African/Korean/Italian... I'd have those physical and genetic features good, bad, or indifferent. The offspring of two irregulars might not be a legal 'irregular' (depending on the 'laws' of the tower) but they would still physically be an entity that originated from outside the tower and still enjoys the same genetic and physical inheritance. If both parents are 'unlimited' in their potential due to being from outside the tower (a special 'race' or 'ethnicity' if you will) then the progeny would also be the same. Legal classification (both by the tower's standards and Zahard's empire standards) might be another thing entirely - but that's mostly a label. Politically, Enne isn't classified as an irregular. She didn't enter the tower physically (though her ancestral cells did). But why isn't she an irregular in all other senses??
We know that the term 'irregular' is only a label as it pertains to those coming in after Zahard's empire was formed. In this sense, OG13 both are (physically) and aren't (politically) considered 'irregulars' - it's a matter of perspective and semantics. But, as far as powers are concerned, they very much are irregulars. The point is being an irregular or not isn't always a static definition, and might not be best used to describe the full implications of one's legal and physical limitations. A rose by any other name...
It's also interesting to consider that Baam has always been an irregular. Odd then that he seems so weak.
How is this so hard the whole point of explaining the loops and using it, is a way to show he can be relevant against ranker without it being cheap, we have seem him without the loops is a b class to a class regular is makes a lot of sense.
If bam had ranker level shinsu capacity and skills already, he would have instantly destroyed akryung like he did with dogs, mad dog and snake guy, but he jumped straight to his special technique and using it since.
We don't know arkryung real level of power it could easily exceed that of a ranker. He was clearly there to gauge baam's power. Maybe he is that strong. And again baam without loops don't mean nothing, he has it why just not consider it as whole.
Bam has been gaining High lvl skills and gadgets for the entirety of 2nd season. He was like a tree with a huge height but a thin trunk. The training he did so far was in order to strengthen his base, It gave him a super special baseline skill that Works as Basic for any skill he wishes to use. He has fixed his defects, he no longer lacks at Basic Shinsoo Control.
Once he couples this to whatever he has already mastered, he is gonna be as advanced in Shinsoo use as those skills' lvls. What Evankhell Will teach him later is How to manouver the Thorns, BM and Thryssas. Perhaps some neat tricks of her own too. But that on the advanced front.
Whatever next serious Battle he faces It Will be the Full Power of everything he has excluding the inside gifts, no quickly ending stamina, its the guy who tied with Jahad as basic style. Meaning that Will be what everyday Bam Will be like in a fight. And an open Path to even stronger skills. His style against Jahad Will be like taking a walk.
Now, he Will still lack knowledge about Battle skills, he lacks experience to know How to counter the likes of White noise. But regarding potency its clear he can now attack and injure even Kallavan. And If his attack can be as solid, so is his defense. Meaning that, using the Thorn effectively, Bam can fight Kallavan.
I Just think he isn't there yet, and that It might take a real long time for him to use the Thorn casually. Its likely gonna drain him fast still, he Will equal a High Ranker but with a timer on his Head.
So what I got from this discussion is that there are several distinctions to be made around what makes something an outside power-up, and why Baam's Reservoir should or shouldn't be considered to be the same as the likes of the Thorn and his Revolution.
To me when gauging someone's base level, what is especially important is if he can consistently/permanently use it. The Thorns and Thryssa's have been shown to have a time limit.
The thing that could make the Reservoir feel like a 'power-up' is if he was only able to use it for some time, clearly making him unable to use it afterwards and thus being weaker. However, although it does seem to require recharging, YHS concluded that Baam was able to concentrate enough under stress/heavy emotions that he can charge it, meaning that he would always be able to charge and use it. Then there is also the fact that YHS described it as 'near infinite', which considering the context that it is a psuedo-HR teaching a person that is aiming to beat a T100 HR, it is pretty safe to say it has an incredibly long duration if maintained. So I guess you could say that the moments that Baam doesn't have it up, he isn't a Ranker but considering that this probably isn't that much time, I would say he is one.
Also, the Reservoir is Baam's technique, so making arguments that are based on it being taken away from him are ludicrous.
Jesus Christ, what a fucked up discussion... at this point the loop of the discussion is stronger than Baam's shinsoo loop.
First, about Akryung...
Akryung is using Shinwonryu
Tbh, it was mentioned that Akryung is a irregular
Is he really irregular, and who really is he
i hope to see you expecting those things
well in fact now, making Baam fight with normal regular is too hard
Akryung or Zahard's princesses, spell users
@Orbs2op , you're reffering as Akryung as a normal class C regular. First of all, we don't know what he is.
Baam thought to himself that he was the strongest class C regular he ever faced, but Baam thinks he is a class C regular just because they meet on the floor of tests (so he's at the same point of climbing).
SIU himself is very coy about Akryung status. We never saw him fighting another person to have a notion of his power.
When talking about Baam's power, Shinwonryu is a hax power up and doesn't count as Baam "real" power. Yet, Akryung used Shinwonryu.... so Baam beat whatever Akryung is with Akryung using a hax power up.
I cant't quite get this kind of rationalization.
Now about the loops.
I see it as an technique that makes his use of shinsoo way stronger. A technique that he got the theory from Hansung, trained and developed and put to use. A technique
Evankhell forbade Baam from using his hax powers so he could train his base level power... yet she's all right with him using the loops left and right. If the loops aren't part of his base level power, she should have forbidden it too... or her line of thought is contradicting itself
