Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Rain Spectre]

There is such a thing called being "ahead of its time".
That's not to say cancelled series will 100% do better but a different era means possibilities of different outcomes.

Also why are people talking as if the current era is supremely different from the last one? MHA, KnY, BC, Jujutsu all primarily follow standard patterns of story and arcs that has existed for decades now. Just because a series like TPN exists right now, doesn't mean the whole era is different.

If there is a series that was ahead of its time, I can't name it.

It's a subtler kind of different. The ways series are presented, told and expressed has a different kind of nuance to it.

I don't know about Bleach but I feel like Naruto and OP would still do well if they began now, since the problem with modern battle shounen is that they tend to start either with lots of infodumping or spend all their run on forgettable one-off villains that add nothing to the story.

Naruto in its first couple volumes focused on building up team 7's relationship without needing to add pointless villains for conflict then jumped right into a big serious arc, all it'd have to do really is maybe cut out Konohamaru and the diarrhoea gag.

One Piece did have random villains but it also introduced core cast right away in pretty flashy exciting ways, and has its unique style.

And of course one benefit they both have is they both have pretty decent background worldbuilding without feeling a need to fill chapters with exposition before giving you any reason to care about their worlds.

I dunno, an argument can be made that Zubazu and Haku were still random villains despite their popularity, given that they had literally no connection to the rest of the manga on a base level. Not to mention, there's the matter that the Land of Waves Arc goes for several volumes, with not much in the way of a larger story.

See, I don't really think it's a quality issue with the manga of today versus manga from yesteryear.

I think Jump has just become way less forgiving. They used to be way more lenient, where you'd have series like Magico that were allowed to run for like a year (IIRC) before ultimately being canned.

It's really about pacing. You NEED quick pacing with instant gratification to survive now. There's no longer a grace period, really.

Now, if THAT'S the criteria by which we judge a series' survivability, I can understand the argument. Although, I don't think the pacing was that much slower with the Big 3, really. I mean, with One Piece, yeah it's probably slower than today's hit manga.

Agree on this point. Hitman Reborn is an especially blatant example. The matter of valuing logic over flashy presentation is also there, but that's more "Don't end up like Bleach" over a short-term survival method.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 19, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 19, 2019 ---

I will say, the somewhat sucky part of the whole affair is that the faster pace means there will most likely never be another Gintama.

 

[Nemesis]

I do not believe,
In terms of marketing Dragon Ball had never gone in my opinion.

Well, not really, the thing that revived Dragon Ball was the DBZ: Battle of Gods movie, while Super came about off the revived interest from that movie.

Though, of course, you have to credit DBS for holding said revived interest for a very long time and carrying it over into another, even more successful movie. But DBS didn't stand at the beginning of Dragon Ball's second wind.

I'm more talking about the spike of revenue that companies experienced since DBS in 2015. In BOG and RoF it had the same. But I'll concede that the movies did that, just not in terms of revenue for them compared to what they got later on.


There's also this one which is more detailed and recent

 

[Stivie]

See, I don't really think it's a quality issue with the manga of today versus manga from yesteryear.

I think Jump has just become way less forgiving. They used to be way more lenient, where you'd have series like Magico that were allowed to run for like a year (IIRC) before ultimately being canned.

It's really about pacing. You NEED quick pacing with instant gratification to survive now. There's no longer a grace period, really.

Now, if THAT'S the criteria by which we judge a series' survivability, I can understand the argument. Although, I don't think the pacing was that much slower with the Big 3, really. I mean, with One Piece, yeah it's probably slower than today's hit manga.

I do not think the jump is less tolerant today, after all we had sleeves like RxL, shuudan and even David kun that lasted long before the cancellation. it all depends on the author in the end and how it will catch the public's attention.
That's why I, for example, always criticized some statements about jump not investing in sport manga.

 

[Rain Spectre]

I do not think the jump is less tolerant today, after all we had sleeves like RxL, shuudan and even David kun that lasted long before the cancellation. it all depends on the author in the end and how it will catch the public's attention.
That's why I, for example, always criticized some statements about jump not investing in sport manga.

Robot actually sold extremely well for an opening volume, 100k to be persice. The problem was that it has zero growth, and it was clear its readers were only there because of Fujimaki. David-kun likewise reportedly did well in initial reader surveys so it stayed, it just unfortunately was a case where the initial reader reception didn't translate into actual sales.

 

[animeexpert]

The norm of jump/shonen as a whole

60's - 70's =/= being cool
80's =/= musciline manly (saint seiya say proudly otherwise but still kept it manly, Goat level)
90's - mid 00's =/= silly or adventurous
Late 00's - 2014 =/= rainbow era
2014 - present =/= edgy

 

[Rain Spectre]

Late 00's - 2014 =/= rainbow era

????

 

[Newkerzy]

There is such a thing called being "ahead of its time".
That's not to say cancelled series will 100% do better but a different era means possibilities of different outcomes.

Also why are people talking as if the current era is supremely different from the last one? MHA, KnY, BC, Jujutsu all primarily follow standard patterns of story and arcs that has existed for decades now. Just because a series like TPN exists right now, doesn't mean the whole era is different.

Times may change, but the core of what makes a shonen manga remains the same forever. What newer mangas do (or must do) in every era is to keep the story interesting/exciting or tweak past conventions into their own. I see this with BC & Neverland for the former, and MHA & KnY for the latter.

 

[lgrmjauffre]

I know I'll get clowned on for this, but I really wish Ziga had stuck around. I liked the concept, the art wasn't the worst thing ever, it fits in with the "edgy" trend we've been seeing for a bit, and woo boy, what that shark-toothed waifu do.

 

[animeexpert]

????

The beginning where every mangaka can do what they want, (not limits hence rainbow era)

 

[4Eyes]

I'm still waiting for the savior of adventure genre. If anyone know any manga in this way without obnoxious ecchi please let me know.
I'm so done with edgy stuff and the only things I'm reading with some enthusiasm in jump rn are One Piece, the to-be-cancelled Double Taisei and the cancelled Last Sayuuki.

 

[Xzone]

I do not think the jump is less tolerant today, after all we had sleeves like RxL, shuudan and even David kun that lasted long before the cancellation. it all depends on the author in the end and how it will catch the public's attention.
That's why I, for example, always criticized some statements about jump not investing in sport manga.

Shuudan and david are not exceptional cases. We have earlier cases of series with 30-40 chapter,(it depend of how many series are in the magazine).
And in the 00s we have Psyren, Neuro, Magico and other which weren't great seller but still survive(RxL vol 1 sold better than those).

 

[Rain Spectre]

Shuudan and david are not exceptional cases. We have earlier cases of series with 30-40 chapter,(it depend of how many series are in the magazine).
And in the 00s we have Psyren, Neuro, Magico and other which weren't great seller but still survive(RxL vol 1 sold better than those).

Psyren sold a full million, and Neuro four million. They shouldn't be discounted just because they weren't heavy hitters.

 

[Stivie]

I'm still waiting for the savior of adventure genre. If anyone know any manga in this way without obnoxious ecchi please let me know.
I'm so done with edgy stuff and the only things I'm reading with some enthusiasm in jump rn are One Piece, the to-be-cancelled Double Taisei and the cancelled Last Sayuuki.

I have heard that Double taisei was being accepted in Japan.

 

[CuriousReborn]

Psyren sold a full million, and Neuro four million. They shouldn't be discounted just because they weren't heavy hitters.

A full million over the span of 16 volumes is not great seller

 

[Halloween]

Forget old series surviving today. I think the more interesting question is, what modern series would have done better in the past?

Toriko without a doubt would have done way better in the 80's or early 90's, in my opinion.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Forget old series surviving today. I think the more interesting question is, what modern series would have done better in the past?

Toriko without a doubt would have done way better in the 80's or early 90's, in my opinion.

Toriko is interesting because it's 80s aesthetic mixed with 2000s sensibilities. The result is a manga which is tonally pretty close to Dragon Ball, but more defined in how it tell its story.

I will say, I find this sort of idea largely silly because it's obvious they'd do better by virtue of the average level of quality rising. Even throwbacks like the aforementioned Toriko are written with modern knowledge and hindsight.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 19, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 19, 2019 ---

In other news, here's an official illustration of a football player done by Yoichi Takahashi. Ain't sports manga awesome?

 

[Ctkk]

I do not think the jump is less tolerant today, after all we had sleeves like RxL, shuudan and even David kun that lasted long before the cancellation. it all depends on the author in the end and how it will catch the public's attention.
That's why I, for example, always criticized some statements about jump not investing in sport manga.

Yeah, there's some recency bias. We remember the big hits, but for every Naruto there's 5 series that were cancelled within a year. I don't think it's particularly more hardcore now.

 

[MangAniMY]

we are still 126 pages away from reaching a monthly average needed to be back on track for 1000 pages this year...

keep it up everyone

we are now below 80 pages away before being back on track,

lol


anyways sales data soon

 

[Halloween]

it's obvious they'd do better by virtue of the average level of quality rising.

??????????????????????

I'm sorry, what? You think the average level of quality has risen?

 

[Rain Spectre]

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I'm sorry, what? You think the average level of quality has risen?

Uh, yeah? It's my view on things, anyway.